How do you feel about fat pride?
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it think the FA movement is a WHIPLASH
against the FOOLISH and potentially harmfull diet industry...
think
What other industry is reliant <solely >on constant failure .....
Excellent observation.
I'm thinking the credit/loan industry - especially those that offer overpriced credit to the poor like payday loans or pawn shops - is another that's reliant on constant failure.
I look at dieting/fitness in the same light as I do financial health. With proper eating, one regulates the input against the burn and exercises for a healthier body. With proper money management, one regulates the burn against the input and invests for a healthier future.
"90 days same as cash" is definitely an industry that profits from failure because of the crazy interest rates that kick in if you fail to retire the debt inside 90 days - and that just restarts the cycle of getting behind and having to borrow again.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt when it comes to failure in terms of food and money. I no longer accept keeping up with the Jones as a societal norm and have cleaned up my financial act. The next step is to clean up my body... and that's why I'm here.
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I think there are a few competing ideas going on that muddy up the waters. Here are my thoughts:
Is it OK to be disrespectful or judge someone or make fun of someone for how they look? Never.
Do we all agree that maintaining a healthy lifestyle - with nutritious food that is properly portioned and exercise - is better for overall wellness and longevity than a diet of unlimited amounts of unhealthy foods and being sedentary? I hope so.
Is it wrong for someone at any size to feel confident and accepting of themselves, and celebrate the qualities they like best about themselves? Of course not. But I don't think that justifies giving up on improving. At the same time, I don't think that necessarily applies only to nutrition. There are morally and intellectually sedentary people all over the place.
So...I don't think anyone is saying, "Hooray! Let's eat as much as we can and move as little as possible and celebrate our unhealthiness!" Are they?0 -
I really liked these statements:
"Fat acceptance led me to a place where I could be who I wanted to be.... and that was positive, and bright, and colourful, and fun."
"It's a really good feeling to not hate myself."
The world would be a cool place if nobody hated themselves. Also, I think even if someone is UNHEALTHY, they still deserve to not hate themselves.
Basically, live however you want to. As long as your not messing up my groove, I don't give a good Goram what you do.0 -
I've been big my whole life, and I'm very much behind anti-bullying campaigns and ways to make people nicer to each other and not discriminate on the basis of weight and appearance.
I hate bullying and I would support initiatives to stop that. In fact, bullying often makes people eat more, especially those of us prone to comfort eating. But fat acceptance seems to turn what could have been a healthy movement to stop bullying and get people to focus on their own health and the welfare of others, to a movement about it being okay to be unhealthy and court health risks like diabetes and certain types of cancer.Being fat isn't always the same as being unhealthy. Being thin isn't always healthy.
Fat pride seems to be about tying self esteem to something BESIDES your weight just as Black Pride isn't about black supremacy and Gay Pride isn't about an anti-straight agenda.
I think its healthy and, if anything, can be far more motivating when it comes to healthy behavior than fat shaming.
I agree with these posts. Bullying people for their weight is cruel and counterproductive, and "fat pride" seems to be a misnomer for the movement - if it's more about tying self-esteem to non-superficial aspects of oneself, then I agree with it wholeheartedly.
That said, being overweight/obese can be very bad for one's health, so I won't agree with anyone suggesting that fat is a healthy or safe way to be. It is not possible to be obese and healthy [in the conventional sense] simultaneously, as far as I know (I'm in the public health field, so this is a big part of what I study).
EDIT:I have seen "fat pride" get to the point of skinny shaming.
Oh yeah, and this is obviously not an acceptable part of the movement. If a person needs to shame others to have pride in him/herself, I can't support that behavior.0 -
I'm seeing a lot of "It's unhealthy to be fat!" Which implies that you shouldn't be proud of yourself if you're unhealthy? I'm sure even if I make unhealthy choices, I could still feel proud of myself. I was beautiful when I was fat. I ate healthy food (just a whole lot of it). I lived a full life and contributed to my community.
Also, what if a person has lost over 100 pounds and is still 400+? Shouldn't he feel pride and love his body, even though it's still obese?
It's okay to be who you are, even if you're making unhealthy choices in some area of your life.
My 2 cents in a public forum. :flowerforyou:0 -
Nobody should be bullied because of what they look like. Your weight shouldn't be a factor in how people treat you.Every body should be celebrated for what it is, regardless of weight, height, skin color, etc.
That said, I don't feel that we should "promote" it. It is frowned upon to promote and support anorexia or bulimia (an unhealthy lifestyle), so I'm not sure why people are so uptight about the other end of the scale (literally) being called unhealthy or "wrong".We certainly should not shame people for it, tell them they are less of a person or not worth as much as healthy/fit people, etc, but we should also not be purposefully telling people that it's GOOD or OKAY to be obese or morbidly obese, from a medical standpoint.
instead of all of these "fat pride" "skinny pride" "fat shaming" "skinny shaming" "slut shaming" "slut pride" etc
we should all just ACCEPT AND TOLERATE PEOPLE FOR WHO THEY ARE rather than their appearance.0 -
I was at a Restaurant that specialises in Chocolate recently, it was a lovely experience. 3 obese ladies came in and proceeded to enjoy the same restaurant. The person who I was with said to me:
"What the hell are they thinking they should not be coming to a place like this, theyre fat enough".
I said to that person, "In all fairness you smoke, how is your smoking any better than their over-eating"
I don't like it when mean things are said to/about people, I don't think judging others helps fix problems.
But I am not naive enough to not be concerned about the preasure that obesity puts on the public healthcare system the same as smoking also has it's costs.
I think the first step to fat acceptance should be realising that youre not treating your body as well as you could and taking small steps to really come into some self acceptance rather than fat acceptance.
:flowerforyou:0 -
healthy obesity is a myth
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20131202/healthy-obesity-is-a-myth-report-says0 -
healthy obesity is a myth
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20131202/healthy-obesity-is-a-myth-report-says
Definitely agree with this... that said, there is a difference between fat and obese. Our current culture sees overweight and obese as interchangable. One can be overweight and athletic and, yes, healthy. However, being obese is never healthy and is definitely should not be promoted.0 -
I'm all for people being more tolerant of differences in others. And I'm all for people loving themselves regardless of what others say/do/think. HOWEVER, when the throw the word health into the mix, that just muddies the waters.
As one of the PP pointed out, the obese yet healthy period only lasts so long. At some point, one is going to start developing problems, whether it's an actual medical issue like diabetes or mobility and basic health issues. I know I always thought I was fine when I was obese but had to finally admit to myself that I couldn't get around as well in my mid 30's as I did in my mid 20's. Now that I'm lighter and more fit, I don't get sick as often as I used to and I can move around a hell of a lot better.
I kind of wish they'd stop using the term fat. IMHO, that's a wide sweeping range of weights. I've heard fairly thin womeny refer to themselves as fat when they're a bit bloated or gain a couple pounds. But in the article, fat seems to mean obese or even morbidly obese. Let's be honest and call it what it is.
I also suspect the woman with the pink hair doesn't like the term fat because deep down she doesn't really accept the shape she's in but is trying really hard to justify it. There is definitely some denial at play here. And I get it, I was there myself...it can be a tough hole to crawl out of.0 -
In general, how I feel about the fat acceptance movement: I believe it is extremely detrimental.
In that article: Dr Linda Bacon is the author of 'Health at every size' has got some serious backtracking to do. Recent studies have found that obese/overweight individuals who appear healthy (healthy cholesterol, blood pressure, etc) are still unhealthier than their normal-weight counterparts. Here is an editorial discussing several of the recent studies with analysis written in layman's terms: http://time.com/82848/theres-no-such-thing-as-healthy-obesity-says-study/
We don't want anyone to hate themselves. We don't want anyone to bully anyone else. Those are easy statements. However, when someone is slowly (or quickly) killing themselves, it should not be accepted. That person should be encouraged to become healthier, to help themselves or get the help they need.
We would not be okay with an anorexia acceptance movement, but I see the two as comparable. It is a controllable weight problem that is out of hand and potentially rooted in psychological problems (such as depression, OCD, anxiety, poor coping mechanisms, abuse). We help anorexics create a healthy relationship with food. We encourage them to seek counseling, create realistic body expectations, and teach them about the hidden damage their eating and exercise patterns are doing to their bodies. I do not believe anyone should ever bully, shame, or otherwise antagonize someone who is obese or anorexic. Those people need help. Fat acceptance does not help. It may bandage over some self-esteem in the short term, but it ignores and normalizes the problems someone is going to experience because of their weight. Fat acceptance creates an “Us against Them” subculture.0 -
I'm seeing a lot of "It's unhealthy to be fat!" Which implies that you shouldn't be proud of yourself if you're unhealthy? I'm sure even if I make unhealthy choices, I could still feel proud of myself. I was beautiful when I was fat. I ate healthy food (just a whole lot of it). I lived a full life and contributed to my community.
Also, what if a person has lost over 100 pounds and is still 400+? Shouldn't he feel pride and love his body, even though it's still obese?
It's okay to be who you are, even if you're making unhealthy choices in some area of your life.
My 2 cents in a public forum. :flowerforyou:
This is almost exactly what I've thinking as I read this topic.
If you read these forums very much, especially the threads about nutrition, it's easy to get caught up in the notion that acheiving the ultimate perfect health is the proper focus of ones life. I think you can be adequately healthy without a diet that is perfect down to the microgram of every vitamin and mineral. You can be adequately healthy without doing the perfect amount and type of exercise. And you can be adequately healthy without being at the optimal weight for your height.
I know this site is for seekers of fitness and some of the people on here are amazing in what they have achieved, but many of these people's passion is fitness. What if your passions are something else? You shouldn't be made to think you have a character flaw because you prefer to devote yourself to, say, art or music instead of fitness and health and as a result carry somewhat too much weight.0 -
Why would anyone be proud of something that is causing them physical disability, making them sick, and shortening their lives?
I'm happier having lost 65# with 15 more to go.
"Fat pride" is a total cop out.
This ^^^
Everyone is built different - some people will always be "heavy".
However... if you are consistently eating 2000-3000 calories over your "maintenance", becoming way less mobile than your peers and eventually becoming a burden on your friends, family, and children.
Discipline is becoming a word that I hear less and less these days.
By the way... the reason that I am "obese", have BF of about 31%, and have 30-35 lbs to lose is not because I am a "victim of society"... it is because I have not had enough discipline and didn't want to be really healthy enough.
I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WAY I AM0 -
Lets get real. Lets speak truth. Coming from a person who has been overweight all of her life, it is no fun being overweight and out of shape. If people claim to be proud of being overweight, they are lying to themselves.
However, If the movement supports feeling good about yourself no matter how much you weigh, I am for it. Too many people have been the butt of jokes and ridicule based on their weight.
I strongly believe that part of feeling good about yourself is motivating yourself to do better. Doing good things for your body like exercising and eating clean. Feel good enough about yourself to do good things for your body and your health.
Not letting your weight stop you from going out there and trying new things like "Zumba"!
I was the only fat girl at Zumba class and I rocked it!!0 -
Being fat isn't always the same as being unhealthy. Being thin isn't always healthy.
Fat pride seems to be about tying self esteem to something BESIDES your weight just as Black Pride isn't about black supremacy and Gay Pride isn't about an anti-straight agenda.
I think its healthy and, if anything, can be far more motivating when it comes to healthy behavior than fat shaming.
I agree with this completely.
I do think "fat pride" is not a term that I'd choose, personally. "Body positive" is better, in my opinion.
Fat shaming didn't help me to lose weight, increasing my confidence and health while accepting myself did.
In my mind, the only negative about true "fat pride" is that it could feed a denial mentality that could help justify or ignore serious health conditions. While speaking of that, however, I think it's important to note that not everyone experiences the same weight related health problems. At 32 years old I weighed 300 lb and I did not have hypertension, Type II diabetes, PCOS, etc. Many (if not most) women my size did. Health and weight vary.0 -
I know someone who REFUSES to go to the gym because she feels too fat to show up. She feels fat-shamed. If she was more accepting of herself regardless of her weight, she actually would be healthier. THAT is the healthy expression of this movement, IMO.0
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I just read this article http://www.sbs.com.au/thefeed/blog/2014/05/26/fat-pride-growing-movement-people-looking-fat-acceptance
What are your thoughts on fat pride? Do you think fat and healthy can go hand in hand? It seems to be an increasing (pardon the pun) movement at present.
Personally, I don't know if I believe someone can necessarily be fat and 'healthy'...or more I guess, in the best health that they can be, and away from potential risks-that's one of my motivations for wanting to change, I had some serious health risks and I got scared about my future. Of course losing some of it has improved other areas of my life (mental health, relationships etc), but above all health was just what had to come first, so in that respect I guess I don't think it is a good thing.
Barbaric... fat is disgusting and repulsive.. sure some people will struggle with weight and individually when dealing with people I can show empathy.. but as a whole the fat culture in America is so sad so terrible, and I'm still appalled stores don't bother even carrying clothes in a size 28" waist for men! When pressed as to why! "No one is that skinny!"
UGH!0 -
Bullying anyone for their weight is not ok, no matter if they are big or small. Fat people go through a lot- they are discriminated against quite a bit. If you want to be/or are fat, that's fine with me.
What sucks is if/when you begin to have health problems because of it. It also sucks if you have children who mimic possible bad behavior and also become fat. Unless you are a child, being fat is a personal choice for most.
And personal choices are none of my business.0 -
Wow0
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Personally I just feel that it's another form of Identity politics, political arguments that focus upon the self-interest and perspectives of self-identified social interest groups and ways in which people's politics may be shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations. Examples include social organizations based on race, class, religion, gender, ethnicity, ideology, nation, sexual orientation, culture, information preference, history, musical or literary preference, medical conditions, professions or hobbies. Not all members of any given group are necessarily involved in identity politics.
Minority influence is a central component of identity politics. Minority influence is a form of social influence which takes place when a majority is being influenced to accept the beliefs or behavior of a minority. Unlike other forms of influence this usually involves a personal shift in private opinion.
It's just like the anti-bullying that everyone keeps talking about, people want to place labels on everything and now if you don't accept it then your guilty of bullying, what nonsense!0 -
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I was far happier as a fat person. With my looks, with my health, with my overall mental well-being. Being thin has made me look like a small person wearing a giant wrinkly skin suit, my blood pressure went up and my blood sugar levels did the same (despite eating less sugar and no longer being obese which is supposed to bring it down), and I'm just generally sad all the time....probably mostly because of how gross I think I look. At least changing isn't such an ordeal since I got rid of my mirrors....as long as i don't look down......all that to say, I had a much easier time mustering up pride in myself for any reason when i was big. Going back to that isn't an option for various reasons, but I'd be all over it if I could. More power to 'em0
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Even at my fattest I was not into the whole fat pride movement.0
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I see nothing wrong with it. It's not like they're advocating that everyone be fat, or that being fat is the healthiest state -- just that fat people also deserve to have pride in themselves, which they do."Fat acceptance" =/= "Fat celebration"
Fat acceptance doesn't mean that you can be proud of yourself BECAUSE you're fat, it means you can be proud of yourself EVEN if you're fat. There's a slight difference.
Basically this.0 -
"Fat acceptance" =/= "Fat celebration"
Fat acceptance doesn't mean that you can be proud of yourself BECAUSE you're fat, it means you can be proud of yourself EVEN if you're fat. There's a slight difference.
^^^this
i respectfully agree.
well worded!0 -
"Fat acceptance" =/= "Fat celebration"
Fat acceptance doesn't mean that you can be proud of yourself BECAUSE you're fat, it means you can be proud of yourself EVEN if you're fat. There's a slight difference.0 -
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Do you think fat and healthy can go hand in hand?
I don't have anything to say about the rest of this post but I can tell you 100% without a doubt that fat and healthy can go hand in hand. How do I know? Because I am fat and healthy, and I know this because I just recently had my yearly physical done and my doctor actually shook my hand to congratulate me on my perfect health, and told me to continue on with what I am doing and not worry about my weight. So yes. Fat and heathly can go hand in hand. Just like skinny and unhealthy can go hand in hand too.
I think that if someone wants to be accepted as they are it is absolutely fine, everyone should be allowed to love them-self no matter their size.0 -
I was far happier as a fat person. With my looks, with my health, with my overall mental well-being. Being thin has made me look like a small person wearing a giant wrinkly skin suit, my blood pressure went up and my blood sugar levels did the same (despite eating less sugar and no longer being obese which is supposed to bring it down), and I'm just generally sad all the time....probably mostly because of how gross I think I look. At least changing isn't such an ordeal since I got rid of my mirrors....as long as i don't look down......all that to say, I had a much easier time mustering up pride in myself for any reason when i was big. Going back to that isn't an option for various reasons, but I'd be all over it if I could. More power to 'em
I just wanted to say that I don't think you look gross at all, and I hope you find happiness again! You've done a lot to get yourself healthy and I am keeping my fingers crossed that the numbers that frustrate you will even out over time. Be patient with yourself and be proud of your majorly significant accomplishment! Being a healthy weight doesn't solve everything, but the longevity it's given you and options? I think that is pretty empowering, too.0 -
My comments got deleted0
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