How do you feel about fat pride?
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Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
you are a weird bird, not knowing what a co-op is (I guess cause you are young and presumably live in a smallish place and have not traveled much?) But to think you can't be fat and happy? Of course you can, presuming you aren't horrifically shallow or having issues with mortality. What an odd concept, and how would you even know since you aren't fat anyway...
yeah the tumbleweed problem is outta control here in far off Philadelphia... :huh:
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
I'm trying to be nicer ya butt.
@salembambi - yeah I'm well aware there are more than two sexualities.. regardless its not apples to apples.. apples to oranges at its closest.
And your right I don't know what happiness means for all human beings but for people that are fat - they are not happy I'd say in virtually every case.
weird I know quite a few happy fat people who have no desire to change their bodies
weird I guess my experience is invalid only yours matters right?0 -
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
The state of being happy is highly subjective and depends on way more factors than your body fat percentage. You may not be happy with your body as an overweight individual (or you might - I know plenty of powerlifters who are 300+ pounds, "fat", swole and happy with their gains) - but that doesn't mean someone else can't be generally happy simply because they're overweight. Put another way, you might not personally be happy if you were overweight, but you can't just say as a general rule that someone else cannot be happy if they're overweight. You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions, but happiness goes beyond your BMI and body fat percentage. Some people are happy doing lots of cardio and looking all twiggy, while others are happy beefing up and carrying around quite a bit of fat in addition to a lot of muscle, while others can be happy playing video games all the time , and others still are in phenomenal physical shape and yet they're miserable. If only happiness were as easy as cutting weight, you'd find a lot more content people in the world. The problem is it's not as simple as you're suggesting.0 -
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
The state of being happy is highly subjective and depends on way more factors than your body fat percentage. You may not be happy with your body as an overweight individual (or you might - I know plenty of powerlifters who are 300+ pounds, "fat", swole and happy with their gains) - but that doesn't mean someone else can't be generally happy simply because they're overweight. Put another way, you might not personally be happy if you were overweight, but you can't just say as a general rule that someone else cannot be happy if they're overweight. You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions, but happiness goes beyond your BMI and body fat percentage. Some people are happy doing lots of cardio and looking all twiggy, while others are happy beefing up and carrying around quite a bit of fat in addition to a lot of muscle, while others can be happy playing video games all the time , and others still are in phenomenal physical shape and yet they're miserable. If only happiness were as easy as cutting weight, you'd find a lot more content people in the world. The problem is it's not as simple as you're suggesting.
so much logic so much sense0 -
Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
you are a weird bird, not knowing what a co-op is (I guess cause you are young and presumably live in a smallish place and have not traveled much?) But to think you can't be fat and happy? Of course you can, presuming you aren't horrifically shallow or having issues with mortality. What an odd concept, and how would you even know since you aren't fat anyway...
yeah the tumbleweed problem is outta control here in far off Philadelphia... :huh:
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
I'm trying to be nicer ya butt.
@salembambi - yeah I'm well aware there are more than two sexualities.. regardless its not apples to apples.. apples to oranges at its closest.
And your right I don't know what happiness means for all human beings but for people that are fat - they are not happy I'd say in virtually every case.
Oh yes! I remember now, but you don't live in philly but somewhere near there.. hailing from NE PA myself I can see how you growing up there explains part of why I find you odd.
I do rather think I am pretty happy all things considered. I figure I should lose some weight because my general laziness isn't gonna support accommodating the diabetes. I have a pretty awesome life though, nothing to complain about, my weight included for the most part (again - lazy, heath, don't want the 'betes)0 -
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
The state of being happy is highly subjective and depends on way more factors than your body fat percentage. You may not be happy with your body as an overweight individual (or you might - I know plenty of powerlifters who are 300+ pounds, "fat", swole and happy with their gains) - but that doesn't mean someone else can't be generally happy simply because they're overweight. Put another way, you might not personally be happy if you were overweight, but you can't just say as a general rule that someone else cannot be happy if they're overweight. You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions, but happiness goes beyond your BMI and body fat percentage. Some people are happy doing lots of cardio and looking all twiggy, while others are happy beefing up and carrying around quite a bit of fat in addition to a lot of muscle, while others can be happy playing video games all the time , and others still are in phenomenal physical shape and yet they're miserable. If only happiness were as easy as cutting weight, you'd find a lot more content people in the world. The problem is it's not as simple as you're suggesting.
well sure sure! There are a zillion variables concerning happiness - we are on MFP, we are discussing fat pride and I'm referring to happiness in regards to self-image and their body... obviously you can be super fit and if your going through a divorce or something terrible your not ganna be in an ideal state of mind. - good grief - I'm certainly not arguing with your point, but I'm sticking to my point in regards to self-image, you can not be happy with yourself and your body when you are obese or fat.. now for the individuals you mentioned.. they are fat with tons of muscle and stuff.. I mean sure, sure.. there was a gentleman on here previously that posted as much - I agree and tip my hat to them doing what makes them happy and the goals they have of being powerful and strong.. but the idea that some average fat joe or jane is happy with being fat..
#getreal
@salembambi and yeah to be fair - I do entertain your opinions/experience but our worldviews are drastically different - so I take them serious but I take them with not too much faith...0 -
Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
you are a weird bird, not knowing what a co-op is (I guess cause you are young and presumably live in a smallish place and have not traveled much?) But to think you can't be fat and happy? Of course you can, presuming you aren't horrifically shallow or having issues with mortality. What an odd concept, and how would you even know since you aren't fat anyway...
yeah the tumbleweed problem is outta control here in far off Philadelphia... :huh:
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
I'm trying to be nicer ya butt.
@salembambi - yeah I'm well aware there are more than two sexualities.. regardless its not apples to apples.. apples to oranges at its closest.
And your right I don't know what happiness means for all human beings but for people that are fat - they are not happy I'd say in virtually every case.
Oh yes! I remember now, but you don't live in philly but somewhere near there.. hailing from NE PA myself I can see how you growing up there explains part of why I find you odd.
I do rather think I am pretty happy all things considered. I figure I should lose some weight because my general laziness isn't gonna support accommodating the diabetes. I have a pretty awesome life though, nothing to complain about, my weight included for the most part (again - lazy, heath, don't want the 'betes)
actually just got promoted and am having to move to Philly philly.
:drinker:
and yeahseriously good luk - u def don't want the 'betes0 -
Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
you are a weird bird, not knowing what a co-op is (I guess cause you are young and presumably live in a smallish place and have not traveled much?) But to think you can't be fat and happy? Of course you can, presuming you aren't horrifically shallow or having issues with mortality. What an odd concept, and how would you even know since you aren't fat anyway...
yeah the tumbleweed problem is outta control here in far off Philadelphia... :huh:
And one of the ways I know you can't be happy being fat is the same way I acquire knowledge so rapidly - I'm willing to learn and ask questions when I don't know something..
And yeah I'm sticking to that, there will be exceptions for such a large generalization but its marginal - if your fat your not happy-its the reason why you set goals and are trying to change it in the first place. And if you aren't trying to actively change it then your just fat and lethargic and once again - not happy.
I'm trying to be nicer ya butt.
@salembambi - yeah I'm well aware there are more than two sexualities.. regardless its not apples to apples.. apples to oranges at its closest.
And your right I don't know what happiness means for all human beings but for people that are fat - they are not happy I'd say in virtually every case.
Oh yes! I remember now, but you don't live in philly but somewhere near there.. hailing from NE PA myself I can see how you growing up there explains part of why I find you odd.
I do rather think I am pretty happy all things considered. I figure I should lose some weight because my general laziness isn't gonna support accommodating the diabetes. I have a pretty awesome life though, nothing to complain about, my weight included for the most part (again - lazy, heath, don't want the 'betes)
actually just got promoted and am having to move to Philly philly.
:drinker:
and yeahseriously good luk - u def don't want the 'betes
whoo hoo congrats on the promotion! I liked the little bit of philly I saw recently. WORST. AIRPORT. EVER it was seriously depressing (and I've seen a lot of airports) but the trains/SEPTA were kinda nice, or at least convenient.0 -
[/quote]
whoo hoo congrats on the promotion! I liked the little bit of philly I saw recently. WORST. AIRPORT. EVER it was seriously depressing (and I've seen a lot of airports) but the trains/SEPTA were kinda nice, or at least convenient.
[/quote]
WORST. AIRPORT. EVER
+1 for you.
it was seriously depressing
+1 again for you
trains/SEPTA were kinda nice, or at least convenient
I agree.. a little intimidating at first, then its easy sailing.0 -
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Really like anything else so cares fat pride,straight pride,gay pride...if they are happy then it's non of our business to judge there way of life.
a ray of light appears
Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
more than two sexualities exist
& you cannot claim to know what happiness means for all human beings
You can't claim to know what happiness means for all humans either. But this is what I know... there are a lot of things that can make someone happy ( wealth, kids, a good job, appearances etc.). Our appearances are a huge source of self confidence...for example, how do you feel when you walk outside without make up ? Why do you put so much effort in making yourself look good before you go somewhere special? How would you feel if people stare at you in disgust? How would you feel if people treated you differently (poorly)? How would you feel if people called you ugly? You can say you don't care what people think, but no matter what, being treated poorly sucks for EVERYONE.
We don't live in a perfect world. I do believe that fat people are treated negatively, isn't that why this "fat pride" even exists?? Because they are trying to show the world that they don't want to feel inferior?? ....If they want a change in how the world is, that means they are not happy about something, and that something is how they are treated based on their appearance.0 -
[/quote]QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
Really like anything else so cares fat pride,straight pride,gay pride...if they are happy then it's non of our business to judge there way of life.
a ray of light appears
Its not apples to apples - they are born gay or straight - unless its a medical condition your not born fat, and you can't be truly happy when your fat - happiness isn't a buzzword its a lifestyle.
more than two sexualities exist
& you cannot claim to know what happiness means for all human beings
You can't claim to know what happiness means for all humans either. But this is what I know... there are a lot of things that can make someone happy ( wealth, kids, a good job, appearances etc.). Our appearances are a huge source of self confidence...for example, how do you feel when you walk outside without make up ? Why do you put so much effort in making yourself look good before you go somewhere special? How would you feel if people stare at you in disgust? How would you feel if people treated you differently (poorly)? How would you feel if people called you ugly? You can say you don't care what people think, but no matter what, being treated poorly sucks for EVERYONE.
We don't live in a perfect world. I do believe that fat people are treated negatively, isn't that why this "fat pride" even exists?? Because they are trying to show the world that they don't want to feel inferior?? ....If they want a change in how the world is, that means they are not happy about something, and that something is how they are treated based on their appearance.
Happiness is a state of mind. If one seeks happiness from looking good or acquiring possessions then it will be forever fleeting. At least that seems to be what Buddha taught. I'm not so sure. I think it's a balance of having your material/physical needs met, your social needs met, helping others, and not being a greedy *kitten* about it. That's me though.0 -
I'm certainly not arguing with your point, but I'm sticking to my point in regards to self-image, you can not be happy with yourself and your body when you are obese or fat.. now for the individuals you mentioned.. they are fat with tons of muscle and stuff.. I mean sure, sure.. there was a gentleman on here previously that posted as much - I agree and tip my hat to them doing what makes them happy and the goals they have of being powerful and strong.. but the idea that some average fat joe or jane is happy with being fat..
#getreal
In my mind though, that's where your argument really begins to break down. There are plenty of amateur powerlifters who are by any definition of the term "fat" at 300+ pounds (usually the guys who compete are a bit leaner these days, as it's almost required to stay really competitive, but I digress). So you're saying it's okay for them to be fat, because they're powerful and strong? So at what point do you become strong enough to be fat and happy? If I'm 350 pounds but I can bench 400 pounds, am I allowed to be happy? Is there a formula where I can plugin my bench to weight ratio?
I'm being a bit silly, but my point is simply that "happiness" is not that simple. Do I think the average overweight person is happy with their body? No. But then again, I'd be willing to bet you that the average person at a healthy BMI isn't altogether happy with their body either and the same goes for the average underweight person. Happiness transcends body fat percentage. Hell, there are plenty of bodybuilders and models with amazing bodies and yet, thanks to a healthy case of body dysmorphia, are very unhappy with their bodies. It's overly simplistic to think that you can tell whether someone is happy based solely on their physical appearance, and to some extent, I think you might find that some people find happiness when they stop putting quite so much emphasis on things such as their physical appearance.0 -
I'm certainly not arguing with your point, but I'm sticking to my point in regards to self-image, you can not be happy with yourself and your body when you are obese or fat.. now for the individuals you mentioned.. they are fat with tons of muscle and stuff.. I mean sure, sure.. there was a gentleman on here previously that posted as much - I agree and tip my hat to them doing what makes them happy and the goals they have of being powerful and strong.. but the idea that some average fat joe or jane is happy with being fat..
#getreal
In my mind though, that's where your argument really begins to break down. There are plenty of amateur powerlifters who are by any definition of the term "fat" at 300+ pounds (usually the guys who compete are a bit leaner these days, as it's almost required to stay really competitive, but I digress). So you're saying it's okay for them to be fat, because they're powerful and strong? So at what point do you become strong enough to be fat and happy? If I'm 350 pounds but I can bench 400 pounds, am I allowed to be happy? Is there a formula where I can plugin my bench to weight ratio?
I'm being a bit silly, but my point is simply that "happiness" is not that simple. Do I think the average overweight person is happy with their body? No. But then again, I'd be willing to bet you that the average person at a healthy BMI isn't altogether happy with their body either and the same goes for the average underweight person. Happiness transcends body fat percentage. Hell, there are plenty of bodybuilders and models with amazing bodies and yet, thanks to a healthy case of body dysmorphia, are very unhappy with their bodies. It's overly simplistic to think that you can tell whether someone is happy based solely on their physical appearance, and to some extent, I think you might find that some people find happiness when they stop putting quite so much emphasis on things such as their physical appearance.
^fair point. as I was, there is a great deal more to it then my generalization.
@SunofaBeach14 " I think it's a balance of having your material/physical needs met, your social needs met, helping others, and not being a greedy *kitten* about it. That's me though. "
-Once again I agree- its a great deal about just finding Aristotle's golden mean in all area's of your life. ..and corny but true.. having an attitude of serving and helping others is rewarding as well and brings happiness.
Happy Happy Happy!!!0 -
In for more reading.0
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You can't claim to know what happiness means for all humans either. But this is what I know... there are a lot of things that can make someone happy ( wealth, kids, a good job, appearances etc.). Our appearances are a huge source of self confidence...for example, how do you feel when you walk outside without make up ? Why do you put so much effort in making yourself look good before you go somewhere special? How would you feel if people stare at you in disgust? How would you feel if people treated you differently (poorly)? How would you feel if people called you ugly? You can say you don't care what people think, but no matter what, being treated poorly sucks for EVERYONE.
We don't live in a perfect world. I do believe that fat people are treated negatively, isn't that why this "fat pride" even exists?? Because they are trying to show the world that they don't want to feel inferior?? ....If they want a change in how the world is, that means they are not happy about something, and that something is how they are treated based on their appearance.
are all those questions directed at me or what im confused?
and I have been looked at in disgust by strangers , been called ugly my entire life ... I lost 150 pounds so far and was over 300 pounds previously.I know exactly how it is to live in a fat body. It is why I think fat acceptance is very important
oh and just to toss in when I walk outside with out make up I feel the same as when I wear make up...0 -
You can't claim to know what happiness means for all humans either. But this is what I know... there are a lot of things that can make someone happy ( wealth, kids, a good job, appearances etc.). Our appearances are a huge source of self confidence...for example, how do you feel when you walk outside without make up ? Why do you put so much effort in making yourself look good before you go somewhere special? How would you feel if people stare at you in disgust? How would you feel if people treated you differently (poorly)? How would you feel if people called you ugly? You can say you don't care what people think, but no matter what, being treated poorly sucks for EVERYONE.
We don't live in a perfect world. I do believe that fat people are treated negatively, isn't that why this "fat pride" even exists?? Because they are trying to show the world that they don't want to feel inferior?? ....If they want a change in how the world is, that means they are not happy about something, and that something is how they are treated based on their appearance.
are all those questions directed at me or what im confused?
and I have been looked at in disgust by strangers , been called ugly my entire life ... I lost 150 pounds so far and was over 300 pounds previously.I know exactly how it is to live in a fat body. It is why I think fat acceptance is very important
oh and just to toss in when I walk outside with out make up I feel the same as when I wear make up...
This is also why I think it's important to accept and love ourselves. It gives us the strength to deal with ****ty people.0 -
This has wandered drastically off topic. I don't see why people are using the strawman arguments of "BMI is flawed", "powerlifters are 300lbs", "sumo wrestlers are huge".
Did you read the article to OP posted? These people aren't powerlifters, they aren't sumo wrestlers. The problem is these people are dangerously overweight and unhealthy, and that is nothing that "pride" should ever be attached to.
This topic shouldn't be about whether or not fat shaming is good, it isn't, but it's also not the point. Being proud of being incredibly unhealthy is the point, and it's wrong. I wouldn't be proud of being a chronic smoker, or a binge drinking alcoholic, but I would like some help & support to get healthier if I ever did get in that situation. I wouldn't however want someone enabling me and telling me it's fine to be in that state. If it was called "Diabetes Pride" or "Heart Failure Pride" this topic would probably be a lot shorter, but hiding behind the term fat allows people to defend it with irrelevant points because it is too broad a term without a proper definition.
I also don't know why being sexuality or ethnicity came up so often either, because it literally has zero to with this topic.0 -
This has wandered drastically off topic. I don't see why people are using the strawman arguments of "BMI is flawed", "powerlifters are 300lbs", "sumo wrestlers are huge".
Did you read the article to OP posted? These people aren't powerlifters, they aren't sumo wrestlers. The problem is these people are dangerously overweight and unhealthy, and that is nothing that "pride" should ever be attached to.
This topic shouldn't be about whether or not fat shaming is good, it isn't, but it's also not the point. Being proud of being incredibly unhealthy is the point, and it's wrong. I wouldn't be proud of being a chronic smoker, or a binge drinking alcoholic, but I would like some help & support to get healthier if I ever did get in that situation. I wouldn't however want someone enabling me and telling me it's fine to be in that state. If it was called "Diabetes Pride" or "Heart Failure Pride" this topic would probably be a lot shorter, but hiding behind the term fat allows people to defend it with irrelevant points because it is too broad a term without a proper definition.
I also don't know why being sexuality or ethnicity came up so often either, because it literally has zero to with this topic.
It's called a discussion and addressing someone else's comments, rather than strictly discussing the OP. You seem to be confusing the discussion about happiness while being overweight with the concept of being proud of being overweight.
If you want to talk about the article in the OP, only the title mentions pride in being fat. All of the quotes in the article relate more to acceptance and not hating yourself and encouraging exercise even if you aren't actively trying to lose weight. You keep saying you wouldn't be "proud" of being a smoker, but how about not hating yourself merely because you smoke? I don't see any harm in that. Again, "pride" in the context of the article is merely in the title and not the context of it. For instance:She says there's a real problem with how society links exercise and weight loss.
"The problem with aligning exercise and weight loss is that then we put a whole lot of pressure on the only benefit of exercise is a way to lose weight," says Sarah. "The benefits of exercise are so enormous."
"I think we're doing exercise a great disservice in only making it about weight loss."
But while there are many people ready to offer opinions on what it means to be fat - Kath wants to tell people that while she's not an expert on societal health being fat is not an illness.
"I'm not a disease and I'm not diseased," says Kath. "This is the body that I come in."
"Fat acceptance led me to a place where I could be who I wanted to be.... and that was positive, and bright, and colourful, and fun."
"It's a really good feeling to not hate myself."
Sounds a lot more to me like trying to find contentment and self acceptance, rather than someone bragging about their beer gut. It goes on to talk about encouraging people to do exercise for reasons other than weight loss; hardly a radical suggestion.I wouldn't however want someone enabling me and telling me it's fine to be in that state. If it was called "Diabetes Pride" or "Heart Failure Pride" this topic would probably be a lot shorter, but hiding behind the term fat allows people to defend it with irrelevant points because it is too broad a term without a proper definition.
Ultimately, it sounds to me like you only read the title of the article, as I don't see your comments really matching up with the article's content. As for it being "fine to be in that state," it's their life. I have friends that smoke and I don't go around condemning them or signing them up for support groups. They're adults. Is it fine to be a smoker? Sure, provided they're adults making a conscious decision. The same goes for friends who I'd say drink a bit too much. Is it optimal for their health? Absolutely not, but neither are many things we do for fun.
At the end of the day, if you want to talk about a strawman argument, how about getting obsessed with one word in the title of the article (which doesn't appear anywhere in the rest of the article) and addressing only that term, while ignoring the contents of the article and the accompanying video.0 -
You can't claim to know what happiness means for all humans either. But this is what I know... there are a lot of things that can make someone happy ( wealth, kids, a good job, appearances etc.). Our appearances are a huge source of self confidence...for example, how do you feel when you walk outside without make up ? Why do you put so much effort in making yourself look good before you go somewhere special? How would you feel if people stare at you in disgust? How would you feel if people treated you differently (poorly)? How would you feel if people called you ugly? You can say you don't care what people think, but no matter what, being treated poorly sucks for EVERYONE.
We don't live in a perfect world. I do believe that fat people are treated negatively, isn't that why this "fat pride" even exists?? Because they are trying to show the world that they don't want to feel inferior?? ....If they want a change in how the world is, that means they are not happy about something, and that something is how they are treated based on their appearance.
are all those questions directed at me or what im confused?
and I have been looked at in disgust by strangers , been called ugly my entire life ... I lost 150 pounds so far and was over 300 pounds previously.I know exactly how it is to live in a fat body. It is why I think fat acceptance is very important
oh and just to toss in when I walk outside with out make up I feel the same as when I wear make up...
^well congratulations on loosing 150 lbs!!! That is a huge achievement!
(-_^)
Not for arguments sake, rather just out of curiosity, what aided the most in light of motivation to get into high gear and make that obvious lifestyle adjustment?0 -
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