Apple Cider Vinegar anyone?
Replies
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It does help lower blood glucose levels.
Acetic acid? How?
I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
Google is your friend......."apple cider help lower blood glucose levels"
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.medindia.net/patients/lifestyleandwellness/apple-cider-vinegar-blood-sugar-and-lipids.htm
Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar or link to any scientific studies whatsoever. Because you can find a lot of crazy stuff on the internet.
Yep - but it might be a little bit too basic for a wise guy like you to actually understand ....
" These data suggest that vinegar ingestion at bedtime may favorably impact waking glucose concentrations in type 2 diabetes. The antiglycemic effect of acetic acid, the active ingredient in vinegar, has been attributed to reduced starch digestion (5) and/or delayed gastric emptying (6). Neither of these proposed mechanisms likely explains the effects noted herein; moreover, to our knowledge, this is the first report describing a hypoglycemic effect of vinegar apart from mealtime. Fushimi et al. (7,8) have published a series of trials in rats demonstrating that acetic acid alters hepatic and skeletal glucose metabolism. These investigations show that acetic acid feeding (0.2 acetic acid/100 g diet) reduced xylulose-5-phosphate accumulation in liver and phosphofructokinase-1 activity in skeletal muscle—metabolic changes consistent with reduced glycolysis and the promotion of glycogen synthesis. Hence, acetic acid may possibly alter the glycolysis/gluconeogenic cycle in liver, which may benefit diabetic individuals with metabolic disturbances contributing to a prebreakfast rise in fasting glucose (also known as the “dawn phenomenon”) (9).0 -
It does help lower blood glucose levels.
Acetic acid? How?
I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
Google is your friend......."apple cider help lower blood glucose levels"
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.medindia.net/patients/lifestyleandwellness/apple-cider-vinegar-blood-sugar-and-lipids.htm
Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar or link to any scientific studies whatsoever. Because you can find a lot of crazy stuff on the internet.
Yep - but it might be a little bit too basic for a wise guy like you to actually understand ....
" These data suggest that vinegar ingestion at bedtime may favorably impact waking glucose concentrations in type 2 diabetes. The antiglycemic effect of acetic acid, the active ingredient in vinegar, has been attributed to reduced starch digestion (5) and/or delayed gastric emptying (6). Neither of these proposed mechanisms likely explains the effects noted herein; moreover, to our knowledge, this is the first report describing a hypoglycemic effect of vinegar apart from mealtime. Fushimi et al. (7,8) have published a series of trials in rats demonstrating that acetic acid alters hepatic and skeletal glucose metabolism. These investigations show that acetic acid feeding (0.2 acetic acid/100 g diet) reduced xylulose-5-phosphate accumulation in liver and phosphofructokinase-1 activity in skeletal muscle—metabolic changes consistent with reduced glycolysis and the promotion of glycogen synthesis. Hence, acetic acid may possibly alter the glycolysis/gluconeogenic cycle in liver, which may benefit diabetic individuals with metabolic disturbances contributing to a prebreakfast rise in fasting glucose (also known as the “dawn phenomenon”) (9).
So why do you think the error bars overlap between the vinegar group and the placebo group.
Note I have expressed my skepticism I have not name called.
To establish causation there has to be an explanation and I have yet to see an explanation for how acetic acid effects glucose levels.0 -
Now I know why some people hate posting on these forums...0
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My personal experience with apple cider vinegar is that it gives me heartburn and stomach pain.
I only tried it in salads.
If i use brown rice vinegar instead, these symptoms do not happen.
So, I just decided that it is not for me.
(I also have such symptoms whenever I take tylenol or Vit C if it is not time-release vitamin c)0 -
I drink about a tablespoon in water with stevia. If I have heartburn, I can drink it and it goes away immediately. Only use the Bragg's or other organic version, with what they call 'the mother', as it is a probiotic. There's studies where it helps lower glucose levels, though the outcome is anecdotal, but my PCP suggested it and it does seem to help. Don't drink it straight, though definitely dilute with water and add honey, stevia, or aguave.
There are a lot of articles online about it.
Here's WebMD's little bit on it about diabetes, etc.
But there are some medical uses of vinegar that do have promise, at least according to a few studies. Here's a rundown of some more recent ones.
Diabetes. The effect of vinegar on blood sugar levels is perhaps the best researched and the most promising of apple cider vinegar's possible health benefits. Several studies have found that vinegar may help lower glucose levels. For instance, a 2007 study of 11 people with type 2 diabetes found that taking two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar before bed lowered glucose levels in the morning by 4%-6%.
High cholesterol . A 2006 study showed evidence that vinegar could lower cholesterol. However, the study was done in rats, so it's too early to know how it might work in people.
Blood pressure and heart health. Another study in rats found that vinegar could lower high blood pressure. A large observational study also found that people who ate oil and vinegar dressing on salads five to six times a week had lower rates of heart disease than people who didn't. However, it's far from clear that the vinegar was the reason.
Cancer . A few laboratory studies have found that vinegar may be able to kill cancer cells or slow their growth. Observational studies of people have been confusing. One found that eating vinegar was associated with a decreased risk of esophageal cancer. Another associated it with an increased risk of bladder cancer.
Weight Loss . For thousands of years, vinegar has been used for weight loss. White vinegar (and perhaps other types) might help people feel full. A 2005 study of 12 people found that those who ate a piece of bread along with small amounts of white vinegar felt fuller and more satisfied than those who just ate the bread.
While the results of these studies are promising, they are all preliminary. Many were done on animals or on cells in a lab. The human studies have been small. Before we will truly know whether vinegar has any health benefits, much larger studies are needed.
I posted an image the actual data, the only data they show, from the 2007 study paper. Their error bars overlap between their placebo control and the vinegar group, their significance is misrepresented and their conclusion is invalid as a result. Doing a multivariate ANOVA on a dataset of 11 with error bars that large is not going to give you significance.
If the only study is a study with a group of 11 people in which the results have errors that completely overlap between their control group, their baselines and their test group then I am not very convinced by that and honestly you shouldn't be either.0 -
It does help lower blood glucose levels.
Acetic acid? How?
I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
Google is your friend......."apple cider help lower blood glucose levels"
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.medindia.net/patients/lifestyleandwellness/apple-cider-vinegar-blood-sugar-and-lipids.htm
Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar or link to any scientific studies whatsoever. Because you can find a lot of crazy stuff on the internet.
Yep - but it might be a little bit too basic for a wise guy like you to actually understand ....
" These data suggest that vinegar ingestion at bedtime may favorably impact waking glucose concentrations in type 2 diabetes. The antiglycemic effect of acetic acid, the active ingredient in vinegar, has been attributed to reduced starch digestion (5) and/or delayed gastric emptying (6). Neither of these proposed mechanisms likely explains the effects noted herein; moreover, to our knowledge, this is the first report describing a hypoglycemic effect of vinegar apart from mealtime. Fushimi et al. (7,8) have published a series of trials in rats demonstrating that acetic acid alters hepatic and skeletal glucose metabolism. These investigations show that acetic acid feeding (0.2 acetic acid/100 g diet) reduced xylulose-5-phosphate accumulation in liver and phosphofructokinase-1 activity in skeletal muscle—metabolic changes consistent with reduced glycolysis and the promotion of glycogen synthesis. Hence, acetic acid may possibly alter the glycolysis/gluconeogenic cycle in liver, which may benefit diabetic individuals with metabolic disturbances contributing to a prebreakfast rise in fasting glucose (also known as the “dawn phenomenon”) (9).
So why do you think the error bars overlap between the vinegar group and the placebo group.
Note I have expressed my skepticism I have not name called.
You asked three questions :
1) I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
2) Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar
3) link to any scientific studies whatsoever
That is the questions I answered - make your own informed decision from these links - I am not a scientist - and honestly have no desire to try and replicate or defend the conclusions of the scientists... I just answered your questions - have a happy day0 -
Now I know why some people hate posting on these forums...
Because if you post something incredulous, someone will ask for a legitimate explanation rather than just taking someone's word for it?0 -
I used to try to remember to take a shot of ACV every night after dinner, but I couldn't keep it up after a few months.
However, whenever I think I'm starting to get a cold or want to naturally detox myself from things, I pour a shot into a water bottle with a bit of lemon juice, cayenne & honey. I'll drink 3-4 of those a day & within a couple days I'm all good. Even helped me ward off a flu & bronchitis in January.
Like some people said, though ACV is acidic, it becomes alkaline in your body. The same way citric acid from fruits become alkaline in your body. There have been lots of claims of different health benefits, like those for blood sugar. I particularly like it to boost my immune system and help with digestion.0 -
I drink 2 tablespoons with my 16 oz of water in the morning. I don't know if it's because I like the taste of fermented/acidic things, but I became accustomed to the taste very quickly... I even crave it! If you can't stomach it diluted in water I'd say use it to make a vinegarette salad dressing.
I won't say it has helped me with weight loss... I credit exercise and diet for that. But it does make me feel less bloated (I also take supplemental magnesium for that) and it helps keep me regular and my skin clearer. This is just one way I use organic apple cider vinegar "with the mother"... a cursory Google search on the topic reveals a plethora of uses.0 -
It does help lower blood glucose levels.
Acetic acid? How?
I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
Google is your friend......."apple cider help lower blood glucose levels"
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.medindia.net/patients/lifestyleandwellness/apple-cider-vinegar-blood-sugar-and-lipids.htm
Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar or link to any scientific studies whatsoever. Because you can find a lot of crazy stuff on the internet.
Yep - but it might be a little bit too basic for a wise guy like you to actually understand ....
" These data suggest that vinegar ingestion at bedtime may favorably impact waking glucose concentrations in type 2 diabetes. The antiglycemic effect of acetic acid, the active ingredient in vinegar, has been attributed to reduced starch digestion (5) and/or delayed gastric emptying (6). Neither of these proposed mechanisms likely explains the effects noted herein; moreover, to our knowledge, this is the first report describing a hypoglycemic effect of vinegar apart from mealtime. Fushimi et al. (7,8) have published a series of trials in rats demonstrating that acetic acid alters hepatic and skeletal glucose metabolism. These investigations show that acetic acid feeding (0.2 acetic acid/100 g diet) reduced xylulose-5-phosphate accumulation in liver and phosphofructokinase-1 activity in skeletal muscle—metabolic changes consistent with reduced glycolysis and the promotion of glycogen synthesis. Hence, acetic acid may possibly alter the glycolysis/gluconeogenic cycle in liver, which may benefit diabetic individuals with metabolic disturbances contributing to a prebreakfast rise in fasting glucose (also known as the “dawn phenomenon”) (9).
So why do you think the error bars overlap between the vinegar group and the placebo group.
Note I have expressed my skepticism I have not name called.
You asked three questions :
1) I am legitimately curious as to why people think acetic acid has a health benefit.
2) Do these articles explain how acetic acid affects blood sugar
3) link to any scientific studies whatsoever
That is the questions I answered - make your own informed decision from these links - I am not a scientist - and honestly have no desire to try and replicate or defend the conclusions of the scientists... I just answered your questions - have a happy day
Well I am a scientist and their sample size is too small, their error bars overlap and they fail to establish significance between their control their baseline and their test group. No where in that paper does it explain the effect of acetic acid on blood sugar.
I am not even sure how they claim to report a p value with a multivarate ANOVA on a test group of 11.0 -
Then don't take it...simple as that. It helps a lot of people and maybe it can help me...that is why I am trying it.
And because someone I know who is very knowledgeable recommended it, and I would rather listen to him then someone who thinks he knows everything. I simply asked if there were any ways that made it easier to take. If you don't have any suggestions, then u are not answering the original question and are not being helpful at all.
Now I am going to bed. Thank you to everyone who had a helpful suggestion,
Good night0 -
I used to try to remember to take a shot of ACV every night after dinner, but I couldn't keep it up after a few months.
However, whenever I think I'm starting to get a cold or want to naturally detox myself from things, I pour a shot into a water bottle with a bit of lemon juice, cayenne & honey. I'll drink 3-4 of those a day & within a couple days I'm all good. Even helped me ward off a flu & bronchitis in January.
Like some people said, though ACV is acidic, it becomes alkaline in your body. The same way citric acid from fruits become alkaline in your body. There have been lots of claims of different health benefits, like those for blood sugar. I particularly like it to boost my immune system and help with digestion.
How does that concoction detox your body?
When I want to boost my immune system I take zinc.0 -
Then don't take it...simple as that. It helps a lot of people and maybe it can help me...that is why I am trying it.
And because someone I know who is very knowledgeable recommended it, and I would rather listen to him then someone who thinks he knows everything. I simply asked if there were any ways that made it easier to take. If you don't have any suggestions, then u are not answering the original question and are not being helpful at all.
Now I am going to bed. Thank you to everyone who had a helpful suggestion,
Good night
I'm not sure why you're getting upset.0 -
I've heard that vinegar is good for reflux and heartburn because vinegar is an alkaline and balances out the excess of stomach acid calling the reflux. I don't think there's anything special about apple cider vinegar except it tastes a bit better.
I know pickle juice is good for my hangover, but I think that's just a personal weird hangover thing
I have heard that also about pickle juice!0 -
I take apple cider vinegar as a natural treatment for gallstones, it is the only thing I have found that will help if I am having an attack. I usually just dilute it in water, it is strong but you get used to the taste. I would rather just put it in a small amount of water and drink it fast and not prolong the whole thing. You can also put it in a tarter juice to help with the taste, I have put it in a tart cherry juice before and found that it masks the taste the best. People are going to hate, if you want to take it take it, even if it is a placebo who the hell cares, lots of what we do with our bodies all comes back to mind over matter anyways. It certianly can't hurt to take apple cider vinegar in small doses.0
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Haha These people getting upset have obviously not learned how to practice selective attention. Just ignore them if you don't like the answer or think they are being snarky. Just because you ask for advice, doesn't mean you have to follow the advice you get, or defend your point of view from all attackers. You could be wrong, or they could be wrong, take it all with a grain of salt. :drinker:0
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Quick note about scientific publications. It is required that you present your data, it is required that you present the error in your data and that is basically it. As authors you can attempt to draw conclusions from your data and then leave it up to the reader to interpret based on your honestly presented data.
These authors presented their data appropriately, they showed the data and they showed the error. Those vertical bars represent the uncertainty of their measurement:
Reading from left to right the first bar is the baseline of the group that was given placebo. Note that "baseline" means the measurement of that group before they were given ANYTHING. It is around 7.2 on average but their error is such that it can be anywhere between 6.9 and 7.5. After doing their diet where they included placebo their day 2 measurement averaged around 7.1 but the error was such that it could be between 7.4 and 6.7 which overlaps with the previous baseline so really no significant change between the baseline and day 2.
Next two bars are the vinegar group. Note that this groups baseline (before they were given anything) is as low as the 2 day placebo group. The error again is large enough that it overlaps with everything done in the placebo ranging from about 6.7 to 7.4. After 2 days the group measured with an error range of 7.2 to 6.5 which overlaps with the baseline and overlaps with the other placebo group as well.
There is no significant difference between any of these groups. Who can look at this data and say they are convinced that this shows that vinegar has an effect on blood glucose levels?0 -
Haha These people getting upset have obviously not learned how to practice selective attention. Just ignore them if you don't like the answer or think they are being snarky. Just because you ask for advice, doesn't mean you have to follow the advice you get, or defend your point of view from all attackers. You could be wrong, or they could be wrong, take it all with a grain of salt. :drinker:
No one is being snarky. They are legitimate questions that I'm astounded that people that believe these things aren't asking themselves.0 -
Haha These people getting upset have obviously not learned how to practice selective attention. Just ignore them if you don't like the answer or think they are being snarky. Just because you ask for advice, doesn't mean you have to follow the advice you get, or defend your point of view from all attackers. You could be wrong, or they could be wrong, take it all with a grain of salt. :drinker:
No one is being snarky. They are legitimate questions that I'm astounded that people that believe these things aren't asking themselves.
I didn't say anyone was being snarky, I said IF she thought they were. Everyone has their own perceptions.0 -
Honestly if simply asking someone to explain why they think what they are doing is good for them causes them to get upset I'm not sure how much sympathy I have for that.
If you don't have an answer then you probably should try to find one before you just start ingesting things you've anecdotaly heard are good for you.0 -
I take it with my salad...Assuming I don't have any other kind of dressing. ;P0
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So I have never said that I am upset. I just said I was going to bed. I am just unsure of why I should trust some stranger on MFP instead of people that I know and trust and who know me. Taking ACV is not going to harm me, and if it helps, then what's wrong with it? Lots of people believe in it's health benefits and lots don't...to each his own. But my original question was how to make taking it easier...if you don't take it and don't have any suggestions, then why not move on?0
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I eat a LOT of salads, and I use either fresh lemon juice or apple cider vinegar, straight, with no oil. I add mint and/or oregano. At the end of the salad, I usually drink down the remaining juice. I try to rinse after that because I don't think the acid is good for your tooth enamel.0
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I take about a tablespoon once in a while mixed into my water-bottle with a squirt of MISO water flavoring. I know a lot of people add honey and my coworker swears it is what helped her drop 50 lbs (over a long period). Usually I take it because it helps calm stomach acid issues rather than for weight loss. I really don't think it has a significant effect aside from that of the placebo in helping weight loss. It does have other more medicinal system balancing purpose, though!
That is why it was recommended for me. For acid reflux issues and it can also be helpful if you have high blood pressure. Some people believe in it and some don't so I want to give it a try to form my own opinion and see if it helps me. I'm not really doing it for weight loss although some people swear it helps with that too...
If you have acid reflux I would not recommend treating it by drinking acid.
Actually if I remember correctly, reflux comes from a lack of acid. Taking a spoonful of Apple Cider Vinegar takes care of the problem. I had to take it during my first pregnancy for reflux and it worked wonders. I had to chug a lot of water afterwards though.0 -
I like it best as a salad dressing. I've tried drinking it in water and couldn't really gag it down very easily. I've been taking probiotics and have noticed some benefits from those as well... probably more so than the vinegar.0
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I take about a tablespoon once in a while mixed into my water-bottle with a squirt of MISO water flavoring. I know a lot of people add honey and my coworker swears it is what helped her drop 50 lbs (over a long period). Usually I take it because it helps calm stomach acid issues rather than for weight loss. I really don't think it has a significant effect aside from that of the placebo in helping weight loss. It does have other more medicinal system balancing purpose, though!
That is why it was recommended for me. For acid reflux issues and it can also be helpful if you have high blood pressure. Some people believe in it and some don't so I want to give it a try to form my own opinion and see if it helps me. I'm not really doing it for weight loss although some people swear it helps with that too...
If you have acid reflux I would not recommend treating it by drinking acid.
Actually if I remember correctly, reflux comes from a lack of acid. Taking a spoonful of Apple Cider Vinegar takes care of the problem. I had to take it during my first pregnancy for reflux and it worked wonders. I had to chug a lot of water afterwards though.
Oh does it? If that is true I'll admit I didn't know that. Okay then well if acid reflux is in fact caused by low stomach acid then it would make sense that drinking something acidic like vinegar or lemon juice would potentially alleviate the symptoms. That I believe because there is a plausible mechanistic explanation to explain causation of the perceived correlation. I'll have to look that up about acid reflux later, I had assumed it was due to acid rising up into the esophageal lining.0 -
Here is the relevant data from the 2004 study cited by that article. Again I just want to encourage anyone who is reading an article that cites a scientific study if you are going to reference that as evidence please take the time to actually read the actual study and look at the actual data, do not just take an article's word for it. Open squares is 40g vinegar taken with a meal, closed squares is placebo.
Here is the link to the study:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281.full
Someone asked what the harm in it is. The harm it is in if you are seeking a remedy then presumably you are suffering from an ailment. If you decide upon magic beans as the way to treat your ailment while you are fiddling with the magic beans what you are not doing is continuing to look for an actual treatment to your ailment. That is the harm.
Call me a smartass, call me unhelpful, call me whatever you want. All I am saying is don't just believe something you hear because someone else told you even if you trust that person. Look at the data, look for the evidence. I'm not telling you to believe me I am telling you to look at the studies, not the blog articles about the studies not whatever person or article or story you can find that agrees with your current viewpoint.0 -
I take about a tablespoon once in a while mixed into my water-bottle with a squirt of MISO water flavoring. I know a lot of people add honey and my coworker swears it is what helped her drop 50 lbs (over a long period). Usually I take it because it helps calm stomach acid issues rather than for weight loss. I really don't think it has a significant effect aside from that of the placebo in helping weight loss. It does have other more medicinal system balancing purpose, though!
That is why it was recommended for me. For acid reflux issues and it can also be helpful if you have high blood pressure. Some people believe in it and some don't so I want to give it a try to form my own opinion and see if it helps me. I'm not really doing it for weight loss although some people swear it helps with that too...
If you have acid reflux I would not recommend treating it by drinking acid.
We should be friends because I wholeheartedly agree with everything you are saying and am cracking up over here at your responses. Cheers!0 -
I take about a tablespoon once in a while mixed into my water-bottle with a squirt of MISO water flavoring. I know a lot of people add honey and my coworker swears it is what helped her drop 50 lbs (over a long period). Usually I take it because it helps calm stomach acid issues rather than for weight loss. I really don't think it has a significant effect aside from that of the placebo in helping weight loss. It does have other more medicinal system balancing purpose, though!
That is why it was recommended for me. For acid reflux issues and it can also be helpful if you have high blood pressure. Some people believe in it and some don't so I want to give it a try to form my own opinion and see if it helps me. I'm not really doing it for weight loss although some people swear it helps with that too...
If you have acid reflux I would not recommend treating it by drinking acid.
Actually if I remember correctly, reflux comes from a lack of acid. Taking a spoonful of Apple Cider Vinegar takes care of the problem. I had to take it during my first pregnancy for reflux and it worked wonders. I had to chug a lot of water afterwards though.
Oh does it? If that is true I'll admit I didn't know that. Okay then well if acid reflux is in fact caused by low stomach acid then it would make sense that drinking something acidic like vinegar or lemon juice would potentially alleviate the symptoms. That I believe because there is a plausible mechanistic explanation to explain causation of the perceived correlation. I'll have to look that up about acid reflux later, I had assumed it was due to acid rising up into the esophageal lining.
You mean you didn't know something?!? :noway:
LOL0
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