The Myth of the Alpha Male.

brower47

Read article.

/meh

Now look up Alpha/Beta/Omega fiction. :sick: :devil:

DWBalboa

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

We help little old ladies cross the street, we open doors for others, we respect our elders, and help little children, we say grace and we say ma’am and if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn.

ninerbuff

I feel like an Alpha male, till my wife gets home from work.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

BigDougie1211

Can someone please explain to me why the ability to attract and sleep with multiple women is now somehow seen as the zenith of male achievement along the lines of scaling the North Face of Everest, driving the British out of India through a co-ordinated approach of passive resistance or abolishing slavery?

It's not like it's all that hard to achieve*

*I'm just playing...

Because sex is a lot of fun?

RaspberryKeytoneBoondoggle

Maybe we should just ban all free speech and religion. That will solve the problem.

Ihatecoldsoup

FINALLY SOMOENE HASE THE COURAGE TO SAY SOMETHNG CRITICAL OF PICK-UP ARTISTS. HIP HIP HOOREY! THEY HAVE ENJOED FAR TOO <MUCH CREDIBILITY FOR FAR TOO LONG AND ITS VERY BRAVE OF SOMEONE TO CALL THEM OUT FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

Really? I see people ragging on PUAs all the time.

I see some ridiculous posts on here sometimes. You never know.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

headofphat

I thought the article was a bit remedial and he comes across as bitter. I agreed with some of it but not most. I've read better.

The alpha male of a group generally doesn't see himself as alpha but is seen that way by those around him and observers of the group. This writer doesn't some across as a Beta male but rather the Omega. Seems like the type to understand that he is a follower and has no business being a leader.

Beastette

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

Gambit or Wolverine. Cyclops is totally beta.

Nope. Wolvie is a loner, not a pack animal at all. Magneto and Charles Xavier are alphas.

salembambi

- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

While no doubt he was mentally ill, it's the fact that our culture normalizes this idea of women being objects. Of course you can't blame one thing for why he did what he did, but our culture normalizes this sense of entitlement making his thoughts more acceptable to him.

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

_errata_

I don't think it is a myth at all. Throughout a large portion history human, social structures have been built around a patriarchy with an alpha male at the top. Caesar, Pope, King, Priest, whatever you want to call it, the patriarchy has existed and is a historical fact.

That's not to say that it is "right" or "wrong" because I think social organization along those lines occur due to real social needs (structural functional sociology). You see it all throughout the animal kingdom. Hierarchical order exists... and it isn't always male dominated. Alpha females exist as well. These hierarchies exist as a function of survival.

In tougher times, Feudal lords were military leaders who effectively protected the population like an "alpha male." When you have barbarians knocking down your door threatening to burn and rape your population, people like that filter up to the top of the hierarchy out of necessity. Like this guy:



Today, we don't need feudal lords and patriarchies because human society has evolved. Some components of our society that are more... ruthless... still utilize the social structure, but the alpha male has basically gone the way of the dinosaur... it's a fossil.

TheRoadDog

I'll let you know what the Alpha Male is all about when my daughter finishes her Psyche Paper for College. Her paper is on the Alpha Male and her subject was her Dad.

She turned in her outline to get approval over a month ago. Her Professor liked it and approved it as her Term Paper. I then had to sit down and be interviewed by my daughter for over an hour. It was brutal.

Of course, the subject (me) is not disclosed.

Ihatecoldsoup

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

Gambit or Wolverine. Cyclops is totally beta.

Nope. Wolvie is a loner, not a pack animal at all. Magneto and Charles Xavier are alphas.

Valid point. Though I think you can be a loner and still exude alpha qualities. This thread is about to get extremely nerdy.

neandermagnon

TL;DR

^^^ this... I read a bit but it looked like a tirade of hateful drivel against men, so I didn't really want to read any more. Maybe I judged it too harshly but if so then the writer really needs to reconsider how he or she writes introductions.



I'm sick to death of the abuse of the term "alpha male". It's not a personality type, or a way of acting or anything along those lines....... It's a position in a primate social hierarchy and most that call themselves "alpha male" don't actually hold that position even in their own social group. You have a group of male friends who all call themselves "alpha males"...? NO. just no. *one* of them is the alpha (and probably not the alpha anywhere else outside of his little social clique) but the rest are not, by definition. And due to the complexity of human societies, you can be the alpha among one group and not among others, e.g. you may be the alpha of your team at work because you're their manager, but in a meeting with company directors you're not the alpha, not even close. And the alpha can be male or female. "alpha male" might work with some primate species because their social system is divided into separate male and female hierarchies (and there's an alpha female as well when this happens)... but in humans usually there's one hierachy of individuals of both sexes and either a male or a female can be the alpha. It depends on the group and on the individual.

It makes me laugh though when some newcomer to this forum calls himself an "alpha male" when a better primate analogy for his position on the forum is actually that he's not accepted into the troop at all (therefore doesn't have any greek letter) and is having *kitten* thrown at him by the troop. Yet he calls himself "alpha" because he believes it's a personality trait :laugh: yep, his alpha status certainly is mythical.

wheird

- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

While no doubt he was mentally ill, it's the fact that our culture normalizes this idea of women being objects. Of course you can't blame one thing for why he did what he did, but our culture normalizes this sense of entitlement making his thoughts more acceptable to him.

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

How do you justify your bashing of white males as unforgiveably misogynistic when other cultures are much more overt about it?

neandermagnon

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

Gambit or Wolverine. Cyclops is totally beta.

Nope. Wolvie is a loner, not a pack animal at all. Magneto and Charles Xavier are alphas.

Valid point. Though I think you can be a loner and still exude alpha qualities. This thread is about to get extremely nerdy.

magneto and charles xavier are competing to be the alpha (albeit in a subtle way because they're humans, not chimps)

alpha is not a personality trait, it is a position in a social hierarchy.

and what makes someone an alpha in human societies is very individual to the society... e.g. in a football team, the one who's best at football and also a good team player is likely to be the alpha. In a chess club, the one who wins the most chess games... among any group, the one that everyone else looks up to is the alpha... certain qualities such as confidence and ability can make someone more likely to be the alpha but it's holding that position that makes them alpha.... among big bang theory, I'd say Sheldon is the alpha due to being most nerdy and most bossy

Ihatecoldsoup

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

Gambit or Wolverine. Cyclops is totally beta.

Nope. Wolvie is a loner, not a pack animal at all. Magneto and Charles Xavier are alphas.

Valid point. Though I think you can be a loner and still exude alpha qualities. This thread is about to get extremely nerdy.

magneto and charles xavier are competing to be the alpha (albeit in a subtle way because they're humans, not chimps)

alpha is not a personality trait, it is a position in a social hierarchy.

Oh yeah? Then explain Alpha Flight, a mutant team so alpha that is has "alpha" in the name.

ninerbuff

Oh yeah? Then explain Alpha Flight, a mutant team so alpha that is has "alpha" in the name.

Speaking of which, Marvel should do a movie on them.

Guardian
Shaman
Northstar
Aurora
Snowbird
Marina
Sasquatch
Puck (great name since hockey is so prevelant in Canada and I'd love to see who would play him in a movie version)

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

maab_connor

What I agree with:

- PUA is BS. Most of it is based on an oversimplification of human psychology and anecdotal evidence. It is target to the socially incompetent and insecure. They are to social interaction what people who buy into juicing are to weight loss.
- People misunderstand basic concepts of dominance hierarchies... ironically, so does the author.

What I disagree with:
- There is no such thing as a dominant alpha in society. His link on "debunked" science misses the fact that reproductive success is critically tied to social hierarchy... in most species, mating is preceded by fighting off or subjugating competition... which is precisely what an alpha male is expected to do
- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

pretty much what i was thinking exactly.

this didn't happen because of the "alpha male/ PUA community" or whatever you want to call it. this happened b/c someone was ill and denied help even when ppl who were close to him and loved him were BEGGING that he get help.

and i like how the MALE author of this thinks that the SAME THINGS don't happen in female society? that's laughable. women are worse than men. and i say that as a woman.

Some_Watery_Tart

Just so all the alpha males out there are clear on how intelligent women view them:

Ihatecoldsoup

Oh yeah? Then explain Alpha Flight, a mutant team so alpha that is has "alPuck. in the name.

Speaking of which, Marvel should do a movie on them.

Guardian
Shaman
Northstar
Aurora
Snowbird
Marina
Sasquatch
Puck (great name since hockey is so prevelant in Canada and I'd love to see who would play him in a movie version)

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I don't think they have a strong enough fanbase to warrant a movie. And Peter Dinklage as Puck. I don't care if he was Trask in the last film

ninerbuff

Oh yeah? Then explain Alpha Flight, a mutant team so alpha that is has "alPuck. in the name.

Speaking of which, Marvel should do a movie on them.

Guardian
Shaman
Northstar
Aurora
Snowbird
Marina
Sasquatch
Puck (great name since hockey is so prevelant in Canada and I'd love to see who would play him in a movie version)

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I don't think they have a strong enough fanbase to warrant a movie. And Peter Dinklage as Puck. I don't care if he was Trask in the last film

But with Marvel as the sponsor it could grow. Marvel's success with superhero movies has been on the rise and what better way to introduce Alpha Flight to the main stream. If worse came to worse, let it preview in Canada first. Star Wars grew a fan base from it's movie and not the book.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

trojan_bb

What I agree with:

- PUA is BS. Most of it is based on an oversimplification of human psychology and anecdotal evidence. It is target to the socially incompetent and insecure. They are to social interaction what people who buy into juicing are to weight loss.
- People misunderstand basic concepts of dominance hierarchies... ironically, so does the author.

What I disagree with:
- There is no such thing as a dominant alpha in society. His link on "debunked" science misses the fact that reproductive success is critically tied to social hierarchy... in most species, mating is preceded by fighting off or subjugating competition... which is precisely what an alpha male is expected to do
- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

pretty much what i was thinking exactly.

this didn't happen because of the "alpha male/ PUA community" or whatever you want to call it. this happened b/c someone was ill and denied help even when ppl who were close to him and loved him were BEGGING that he get help.

and i like how the MALE author of this thinks that the SAME THINGS don't happen in female society? that's laughable. women are worse than men. and i say that as a woman.

Exactly.

The "myth" of the alpha male did not cause this kid's mental illnesses and subsequent actions (someone actually stated this insane claim in this thread). This mentally ill, depressed, lonely kid USED the alpha male philosophy to justify and fuel his anger.

Every mentally ill individual who has gone on to commit atrocities has used some existing belief system. This is nothing new.

FYI, this kid was not a member of the PUA community. He was 100% anti PUA. Probably a result of years of rejection.

Watch this kids video...the reasons and causes for his actions are obvious. You can see the disordered mind, the depression, and the anger. His previous posts on various forums give it away as well. The alpha male, pua, etc etc communities did not create this kid.

Ihatecoldsoup

Oh yeah? Then explain Alpha Flight, a mutant team so alpha that is has "alPuck. in the name.

Speaking of which, Marvel should do a movie on them.

Guardian
Shaman
Northstar
Aurora
Snowbird
Marina
Sasquatch
Puck (great name since hockey is so prevelant in Canada and I'd love to see who would play him in a movie version)

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I don't think they have a strong enough fanbase to warrant a movie. And Peter Dinklage as Puck. I don't care if he was Trask in the last film

But with Marvel as the sponsor it could grow. Marvel's success with superhero movies has been on the rise and what better way to introduce Alpha Flight to the main stream. If worse came to worse, let it preview in Canada first. Star Wars grew a fan base from it's movie and not the book.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

True. Blade was a pretty successful marvel film.

TheRealOrson

When it comes to sexual partners "Alpha Impact" is very real......for a start.

You might sleep with 10 men in your lifetime (or maybe 50 if you're a major sloot) but there will be only that one or two who you really care to remember......

I agree that all the books and programs etc etc that have come out lately are money-making horse-****, but to deny such a thing as an Alpha male/female exists at all is ignorant. It's not JUST based on wolves for a start.

Hierarchical dominance exists right across the animal kingdom (of which we are a part)

SunofaBeach14

- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

While no doubt he was mentally ill, it's the fact that our culture normalizes this idea of women being objects. Of course you can't blame one thing for why he did what he did, but our culture normalizes this sense of entitlement making his thoughts more acceptable to him.

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

Marginalizing mental illness is every bit as offensive as misogyny. This attitude not only demonstrates an ignorance and insensitivity to mental illness but ignorance of attitudes in other cultures.

likitisplit

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

Gambit or Wolverine. Cyclops is totally beta.

Nope. Wolvie is a loner, not a pack animal at all. Magneto and Charles Xavier are alphas.

Valid point. Though I think you can be a loner and still exude alpha qualities. This thread is about to get extremely nerdy.

Human beings are either pack animals or not. It's the nature of the species, not the individual. You can be an outsider to the pack, but you are still a pack animal.

mank32

tagged for later

i never heard of this "alpha" crap before i joined MFP. :embarassed: (i don't internet much and i don't TV any.)

IronPlayground

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

DAFUQ?

likitisplit

tagged for later

i never heard of this "alpha" crap before i joined MFP. :embarassed: (i don't internet much and i don't TV any.)

It's the retread of Macho and completely boring.

The guy that I know that I'd call most "Alpha" (using the most common interpretation of the male version of the "It Girl" rather than an actual antropologixal ) would tell you that he's the biggest nerd he knows. He served in Iraq, set up medical units in Bosnia, and bull rides for fun (also because it attracts an edgier kind of woman). He's one of the kindest people and really listens to what you are saying.

He mocks the entire concept of alpha: he isn't trying to jockey for position. He doesn't really care. He just does what he likes to do.

The macho thing sets up all these false dichotomies about what is "masculine" and "not masculine" and what is "feminine" and drives a lot of the stupid questions about exercise that we mock on these boards every day.