The Myth of the Alpha Male.

SunofaBeach14

There is not one neat and tidy, simple answer of what motivates someone to violence. There are many different reasons. Each individual situation needs to be looked and evaluated for that situation, the elements and causes and possible preventions and what can we learn from it to prevent it or act more quickly. Though it's just very difficult for that to be a reality (acting quickly) for many many reasons. A lot of the people that commit heinous violence go unchecked for decades even with piling up police reports, restraining orders, hospital records, etc. Part of the issue is that the victims do not want to testify (and even when they finally do, they are the only one because the others don't testify). I don't judge that. I understand. Though, I think that may be an area we need to look at and work on. Why do people protect the offenders and not testify, and how can we make it more possible for them to do that.

I don't think there should be any kind of victimhood narrative. Being a victim of a crime is not something anyone wants. It's something that happens and then we have to deal with it. In fact that is one of the main reasons so many of us wait so long to come forward because we don't want to be seen as a victim or put into a victimhood narrative (male or female). It's tough to experience intimate, violent crimes whatever a person's gender or age is. And no one wants to be treated like a victim or feel humiliated and victimized against their will. It happens to children, adults, girls, boys, women, men, or anyone inbetween. It's not a competition, and to see it that way solves nothing.

I generally think a lot of problems come from people on both sides trying to turn things into gender issues. I think we should stop doing that. It causes more problems than it solves. It's not women against men or men against women. There are violent and non-violent people in this world. And we can look at the roots of the violence. We can look at getting people to come forward and testify. We can look at helping people heal. We can look at various avenues of prevention. But, turning it into a gender issue or an us against them is not going to help. Gender violence is a term that has meaning and is useful. But, it means either gender against another. It doesn't mean a competition about which gender is hurt more, which gender offends more, and who has a more difficult time getting help.

This isn't really so much a response to the article, more to the issue in general and some comments (but I scanned through because I'm busy).

Your first three sentences sum it up very nicely. I will also say that it takes strength to find common ground with people who share traits with your abuser and instead see the similarities with yourself

the_great_beyond_

- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

While no doubt he was mentally ill, it's the fact that our culture normalizes this idea of women being objects. Of course you can't blame one thing for why he did what he did, but our culture normalizes this sense of entitlement making his thoughts more acceptable to him.

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

Except for the fact that, in this case, the guy was actually, legally insane. You only have to read his manifesto to see that his tethering on reality was frayed at best... totally disconnected at worst. The issue at hand is that the misogyny was his excuse for doing something he would have done anyway.... he'd simply find another target for his self loathing... it could have been an employer, a peer group of straight men who didn't include him, neighbors, Walmart... Crazy people aren't driven by agendas like misogyny or racism... they simply embrace them because they allow these people to act out on their dysfunctions.

SunofaBeach14

- The concept of alpha males is responsible for a very mentally ill kid doing what he did. He did it because he was messed up. He had access to a weapon. He killed people because he was sick... and not because he was frustrated with some social norm.

While no doubt he was mentally ill, it's the fact that our culture normalizes this idea of women being objects. Of course you can't blame one thing for why he did what he did, but our culture normalizes this sense of entitlement making his thoughts more acceptable to him.

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

Except for the fact that, in this case, the guy was actually, legally insane. You only have to read his manifesto to see that his tethering on reality was frayed at best... totally disconnected at worst. The issue at hand is that the misogyny was his excuse for doing something he would have done anyway.... he'd simply find another target for his self loathing... it could have been an employer, a peer group of straight men who didn't include him, neighbors, Walmart... Crazy people aren't driven by agendas like misogyny or racism... they simply embrace them because they allow these people to act out on their dysfunctions.

Very well put. I'd add that recognizing crazy as crazy rather than reacting against it as an intellectual ideology takes the wind out of the sails so to speak

likitisplit

I do see that people who engage in abuse feel entitled. I have seen more people abuse through a victimhood narrative than a power one.

BinaryPulsar

I do see that people who engage in abuse feel entitled. I have seen more people abuse through a victimhood narrative than a power one.

I agree. The abusers usually feel like a victim (and feel weak), and abuse for power, revenge, hatred, redemption. And they gain sympathy through playing the victim. That's why so many abuse small children.

SunofaBeach14

I do see that people who engage in abuse feel entitled. I have seen more people abuse through a victimhood narrative than a power one.

I agree. The abusers usually feel like a victim (and feel weak), and abuse for power, revenge, hatred, redemption. And they gain sympathy through playing the victim. That's why so many abuse small children.

Perhaps add "rights" to victimhood and I think we have a Bingo :drinker:

likitisplit

I do see that people who engage in abuse feel entitled. I have seen more people abuse through a victimhood narrative than a power one.

George_Baileys_Ghost

The examples in his article aren't true examples of an alpha male. An alpha doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So tell us what a "true" alpha male is.

He-man

I beg to differ sir...

QueenBishOTUniverse

I've been watching this debate go back and forth on my FB page for a while now and while I agree wholeheartedly that what caused this particular scenario was untreated mental illness, the undercurrent of accepted violence and dehumanization of women that encouraged this young man in the communities he participated in is something that at some point does need to be addressed. I personally thought this article gave an interesting perspective on the discussions that have been circulating around this topic:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/05/27/not_all_men_how_discussing_women_s_issues_gets_derailed.html

bd0027

It's Friday.....is there a cliff notes version available?

This.

Kalici

normalizing misogyny is something society is very very good at . white boy violence against women is almost always associated with mental illness aint it? we got so many excuses for the mens ...so fast do we blame the women oh so fast

40% of abuse victims are MALE. and while 1 in 4 women will be a victim of sexual assault in her lifetime - 1 in 10 men will be. in fact, the points you raise have been so adopted into mainstream consciousness that men who are victims of abuse and/or rape are never taken seriously.

shame on you.

Wow, that is a lot higher than I thought it was. I thought it was closer to 1 in 33. Do you have a source I could read?

TheRoadDog

Just had a discussion about the Alpha Male with a guy at work. He had read something and was asking what the Alpha Male was referring to. I asked him, "Have you ever noticed that when two groups of guys are approaching each other, one guy from the first group will acknowledge one guy from the second group? Those are the Alpha Males." He said, "I've never noticed that." I said, "Exactly my point."

Unknown

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timtam163

Maybe I missed it but has anyone brought up the fact that in hierarchical societies it's not always male leadership that percolates to the top? Nevermind that in a democracy we don't give one person the power (and that checking individual power is necessary to prevent abuse of power) but that the myth of leadership as a "male" quality and cooperation as a "female" quality is pretty much entirely false and is no longer a necessary narrative especially in a society that does not require physical strength as a requisite leadership quality? It served us in a time when we had to pick *someone* to be the leader and that *someone* was nearly always the person with the greatest strength, who rose through military ranks; but now we have other ways of strength (intelligence, cooperation, adaptability) that serve societies better than brute force. Like, scaling "strength" up the person with the biggest nuclear arsenal does not need to be physically bigger; however, they need to use that weaponry intelligently.