If it's as simple as calories in vs calories out....

_KitKat_

WLS can alter many things...metabolism, hormones, insulin resistance, water retention ect. It can not alter reality and change the laws of thermodynamics. If you had said you don't lose at 1000 calories a day, not knowing your TDEE after WLS, it could be (like .0001%) that your metabolism went so low that you are now eating above TDEE, but you stated you lose if you eat more than 1600. Scientifically gaining on 900 and losing on 1600 is against the laws of energy and thermodynamics, you would have the key to the best weight loss plan in human existence and I am sure your doctor will be conducting many studies on your unique situation.

In this class we are all required to eat 1200 calories a day, otherwise we go into what is known as starvation mode. Meaning any calories that we eat are turned into fat, our metabolic rate slows down making it harder to lose weight.

This made me laugh out loud, in one thread we have found the answer to weight loss and world hunger.....awesome work for a Saturday.

Really metabolic adaption, slows the metabolism down but only an extremely small amount and NEVER starts adding fat/weight or even really stalling fat loss.

After seeing these posts daily, knowing that the people who post this nonsense have access and the ability to read the forums and know the truth....I am starting to believe these people just like the answer that makes them feel better about themselves. "I am fat because I eat too little", sounds much better than " I am fat because I love to stuff my face". To have sustainable weight loss, only seems to happen when the person can stand up and say..." I got fat because I ate too much and may have gotten lazier". Things slow down for many reasons, but you can adapt.

OP if you just had WLS, I am assuming your doctor has you on a strict diet and keeping track of you. Gaining a lb. tells you nothing, my weight moves 4lb everyday, unless I get a new number out of my range I have no clue if I gained or loss. I would also assume having an operation would cause inflammation through the body as it heals and adjusts, plus the physical stress of an operation can cause water retention. Honestly any weight loss you have had is probably hidden by many lbs of water.

WalkingAlong

A calories is a calorie.

If not tell me how the heck I lost 22 pounds?

No one debated a calorie = a calorie. Only that I frequently eat way below my BMR and do not lose or lose very slow. I ate 900 calories a day for a month. Lost 10lbs. Ate 1,500-2,000 for a month with no change in exercise. Lost 17lbs.
I've lost 70lbs.

Were you a lot heavier (or younger) when you lost 17 lbs in a month? That can make a difference. Also, are you positive it was exactly like that? I tend to remember past weight loss as being easier and faster than it was.

That's too bad if your surgery really made you lose more slowly at lower calories but I guess it's design is to force you to eat fewer calories and in that it 'worked'. 10 lbs lost in a month is nothing to sneeze at.

Do all WLS surgeons give no calorie level counseling post-surgery? I cringe when I even see the word "nutritionist". I'm beginning to think their training involves studying the old food pyramid or something.

OliviaCeed

It is frustrating when the pounds don't come off at the same rate that we reduce caloric intake. There's a lag. It takes time for the body to adjust to new diet plans. Keep doing it anyway.

Carbohydrates are great for quick energy. But if it's not used, it gets stored more readily than protein.

Protein is a slow-burning energy. And it's slow to get stored up. And it's the first one the body goes to before stores to use up when we don't provide it with energy on demand. Because it's easier to break down protein for energy.

3500 calories equals 1 LB. Whether that's made up in protein, carbs on the go, or fat stores, well that's the trick to weight loss, isn't it.

Metabolism is a tricky thing. It depends on gender, age, activity level, resting metabolic rate etc. The good news is, over time, metabolism can be changed. Over time, metabolism can speed up or slow down depending on what you do to effect the desired change. And it doesn't happen quickly. But it happens.

Now... you've had surgery. Your body is automatically going to go into safeguard mode. Why? Because it's essentially been assaulted. And it needs to recover. And that will affect your metabolism.

The average toddler uses 1400 calories a day to maintain their weight. That's a very young person with boundless energy with (one hopes) not much worry to their day. Adults are different.

I have struggled with weight loss all my life. Here's some things I have noted though;
- fewer calories eaten than what I use will result in weight loss (that doesn't mean healthy weight loss necessarily)
- if I starve myself to try to maintain a steady weight loss, my body will revolt and plateau. It will simply resist giving up calories if I don't give some in exchange for work performed. And it doesn't want much really, just enough to know that it's not starving. My body can outlast my mental will to starve myself. It always wins. So I've learned I'd better do as it says and not starve it.
- I have much better success eating processed carbs (anything that isn't the raw material) earlier in the day than later in the day; so breads and cereals are better in the first part of my day, and 'starchy' fruits and veggies compensate for carbs in the latter part
- diet pop will stall my weight loss and increase my blood pressure (sodium maybe?)
- less than 8 glasses a day in water results in a plateau and makes exercising a draining matter
- caffeine drinks are better in the early day than later as they too cause me to plateau but only if I continue them in the afternoon
- exercise is mandatory for sustained weight loss and body toning every single day
- a carb snack before exercise goes a long way
- fruits activate my salivary glands so I have to remind myself to limit them to 2 servings a day when I know I'll be having a main meal soon after... easier said than done... and yes, I need to have more servings of veggies to compensate
- fiber is my friend; I use Pgx granules to make sure I get 30g a day. or at least, I try to remember that. I find it really does make my yogurt parfait much more satisfying - as well as my white egg english muffin I favour for breakfast
- weight really does fluctuate throughout the day; as much as 5Lbs for me. So I take my best weight if I really must weigh myself daily, and sometimes I do; but I try to remember that what counts is that at the end of the week, I'm still looking at a downward trend. And I don't care if that means even an ounce - as long as its down.

And... I'm still learning. It can only get better with more knowledge and a good understanding on how to apply that knowledge. Did I mention I"m still learning?

Try to give yourself a break. You're making a good decision in making choices on how you eat and how you exercise. And if the weight isn't coming off as fast as you'd like it, well, that's just your body saying it's not ready to give it all up at once just yet. Take smaller steps in your regimen. This week it may show up in poundage, next week it may show up in measurements. If something is changing for the better, then your weight loss plan is working for you. Keep it up.

I believe in you. You will be successful.

catecholamine

I'm sorry but what exactly did you have done? Sleeve? Bypass? Where did you find these doctors, in the phone book?
For you to have such a major procedure and not have the right doctors is a little crazy.

Duodenal Switch. There's only 3 surgeons in my whole state who do it. Few doctors know much on the nutrition front. And few nutritionists know much about the DS. It's not taught about in their education.

catecholamine

A calories is a calorie.

If not tell me how the heck I lost 22 pounds?

No one debated a calorie = a calorie. Only that I frequently eat way below my BMR and do not lose or lose very slow. I ate 900 calories a day for a month. Lost 10lbs. Ate 1,500-2,000 for a month with no change in exercise. Lost 17lbs.
I've lost 70lbs.

Were you a lot heavier (or younger) when you lost 17 lbs in a month? That can make a difference. Also, are you positive it was exactly like that? I tend to remember past weight loss as being easier and faster than it was.

That's too bad if your surgery really made you lose more slowly at lower calories but I guess it's design is to force you to eat fewer calories and in that it 'worked'. 10 lbs lost in a month is nothing to sneeze at.

Do all WLS surgeons give no calorie level counseling post-surgery? I cringe when I even see the word "nutritionist". I'm beginning to think their training involves studying the old food pyramid or something.

No WLS surgeons really give any nutritional counselling. They have you see a nutritionist. Most of those are up on what people with gastric bypass or sleeve should eat, but not my surgery, Duodenal Switch. By the way, I was LIGHTER when I lost the 17lbs. The 2nd month I only lost 10lbs. 4th I lost 17lbs. 10lbs/month is way below average for my weight category. My overall weight loss is below average, or so the nutritionist said.

Aaron_K123

How come I didn't lose weight when I ate 945 calories? And here's the real kicker: I had weight loss surgery that makes me only absorb 20% fat, 60% protein, 60% complex carbs. So my absorbed calories was closer to 400. And I gained a pound. This is the regular thing for me - eat less than 1,600, I gain or don't lose. Eat more, I lose. I see people post all the damn time that it's as simple as calories in VS calories out. My BMR is 2,000 cals a day. So if I eat less than 2,000 absorbable calories, by that statement I should lose weight. But I do not when I drop too low.

Soooo....maybe it's not that simple. Just sayin'

You gained a pound of what? Perhaps you gained 5 pounds of water weight due to retention from elevated cortisol levels due to the stress your putting your body through while at the same time losing 4 pounds of fat. Unless you are undergoing regular DEXA scanning there would be no way to tell.

catecholamine

i am sorry but WLS does not magically make you absorb percentages of macronutrients. Also, reading your profile it does not make you magically not absorb all of your calories. If you eat 100 calories of bread at 21 g of carbs you are absorbing 100 calories and 21g of carbs.

Just like everyone else. You should be EATING less calories because your portions are smaller because your stomach is smaller because well, you cheated the system and had surgery.

But you still absorb what you eat, just like the rest of us.

We cant explains why you lose/gain, but you know as well as we know the same denominator here is YOU.

'You arent being honest with yourself or us. You either arent being consistant, arent following doctors orders, arent excersizing, or are eating larger portions than you think.

Surgery or not, this is on YOU and with all the advice you just rebutt every thing so I doubt if you get it, but the problem is not the diet or calories it is YOU.

Um, are you Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

LiminalAscendance

According to you, you're unable to get appropriate advice from the "professionals," due to the fact they're not sufficiently trained for your particular situation (Was there no screening process? Did you have any control over this?).

I don't think it even needs to be said that you can't compare your "calories in / calories out" equation to the typical individual. You had a procedure with the intent of altering your body's natural function.

Of course, you could just be posting this as a vent, or as a cautionary tale against WLS. If the latter, you have succeeded exceedingly well, IMO.

_KitKat_

I'm sorry but what exactly did you have done? Sleeve? Bypass? Where did you find these doctors, in the phone book?
For you to have such a major procedure and not have the right doctors is a little crazy.

Duodenal Switch. There's only 3 surgeons in my whole state who do it. Few doctors know much on the nutrition front. And few nutritionists know much about the DS. It's not taught about in their education.

Your doctor not having nutrition training is insane doing this surgery. The malabsorption part of it not only hinders calorie absorption but vital nutrients too. This could lead to extreme malnutrition.

Quote from an article...
"DS patients require lifelong and extensive blood tests to check for deficiencies in life critical vitamins and minerals. Without proper follow up tests and lifetime supplementation RNY and DS patients can become ill. This follow-up care is non-optional and must continue for as long as the patient lives."

If he is not doing this, it would be malpractice. More than weight, at this point you concern should be malnutrition.

*Laws of energy still stand, you must burn more than you process (instead of consume for your case)

catecholamine

According to you, you're unable to get appropriate advice from the "professionals," due to the fact they're not sufficiently trained for your particular situation (Was there no screening process? Did you have any control over this?).

I don't think it even needs to be said that you can't compare your "calories in / calories out" equation to the typical individual. You had a procedure with the intent of altering your body's natural function.

Of course, you could just be posting this as a vent, or as a cautionary tale against WLS. If the latter, you have succeeded exceedingly well, IMO.

Lol. Well, I had no control over the nutritionist standpoint - it was who was in their office. And actually, within the DS community, nutritionists at WLS surgeon's offices are notorious for being unknowledgeable about DS nutritional needs.
It's a partial vent, but also that weight loss isn't always so simple.

WLS sucks, honestly. Hardest thing I ever had to do. I had to change completely what I eat. I eat high protein, low carb now. I need high fat to keep my skin from drying out, flaking, and my hair from falling out and being dry and brittle and so on.
I can't eat very much at one time. I have to eat lots throughout the day.
It's hard. It's a pain in the *kitten*. I wish I could have done it without it. But the DS normalized my blood sugar the day after surgery. It went from being high to completely normal. DS has 98% type 2 diabetes cure rate, so... that's a plus.

catecholamine

I'm sorry but what exactly did you have done? Sleeve? Bypass? Where did you find these doctors, in the phone book?
For you to have such a major procedure and not have the right doctors is a little crazy.

Duodenal Switch. There's only 3 surgeons in my whole state who do it. Few doctors know much on the nutrition front. And few nutritionists know much about the DS. It's not taught about in their education.

Your doctor not having nutrition training is insane doing this surgery. The malabsorption part of it not only hinders calorie absorption but vital nutrients too. This could lead to extreme malnutrition.

Quote from an article...
"DS patients require lifelong and extensive blood tests to check for deficiencies in life critical vitamins and minerals. Without proper follow up tests and lifetime supplementation RNY and DS patients can become ill. This follow-up care is non-optional and must continue for as long as the patient lives."

If he is not doing this, it would be malpractice. More than weight, at this point you concern should be malnutrition.

I'll be having blood tests in about a month or so. I take vitamins. They had recommendations to take their "special all-in-one vitamin" that they sell for mega-price, but I looked at the label and it was insufficient. Plus I'd have to take 9 pills of it a day. Talk about major expensive. I take separate A, D, E, K, calcium, and a multi.

kgeyser

i am sorry but WLS does not magically make you absorb percentages of macronutrients. Also, reading your profile it does not make you magically not absorb all of your calories. If you eat 100 calories of bread at 21 g of carbs you are absorbing 100 calories and 21g of carbs.

Just like everyone else. You should be EATING less calories because your portions are smaller because your stomach is smaller because well, you cheated the system and had surgery.

But you still absorb what you eat, just like the rest of us.

We cant explains why you lose/gain, but you know as well as we know the same denominator here is YOU.

'You arent being honest with yourself or us. You either arent being consistant, arent following doctors orders, arent excersizing, or are eating larger portions than you think.

Surgery or not, this is on YOU and with all the advice you just rebutt every thing so I doubt if you get it, but the problem is not the diet or calories it is YOU.

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

:huh: So only a few doctors in your state perform the surgery, and most nutritionists don't know enough about the surgery to give proper advice, yet you're attacking a person on the internet and calling them stupid for not knowing the specifics of your surgery. That makes sense.

A Duodenal Switch removes about 70% of the stomach and a portion of the small intestine. The idea is not only to reduce the stomach size (restricting amount of food) but also shortening the intestine where nutrients are absorbed (restricting absorption of fat, protein, and carbs, and micros); they do not get absorbed fully because the food doesn't stay in the body as long as it would with a full-length small intestine. Since not enough fat is absorbed, vitamin supplements are needed forever for the body to get the proper amount of fat-soluble nutrients.

Obviously, removing portions of organs and the amount of digestive time causes a hit to a person's TDEE, as less calories will be needed by the body to digest food.

catecholamine

i am sorry but WLS does not magically make you absorb percentages of macronutrients. Also, reading your profile it does not make you magically not absorb all of your calories. If you eat 100 calories of bread at 21 g of carbs you are absorbing 100 calories and 21g of carbs.

Just like everyone else. You should be EATING less calories because your portions are smaller because your stomach is smaller because well, you cheated the system and had surgery.

But you still absorb what you eat, just like the rest of us.

We cant explains why you lose/gain, but you know as well as we know the same denominator here is YOU.

'You arent being honest with yourself or us. You either arent being consistant, arent following doctors orders, arent excersizing, or are eating larger portions than you think.

Surgery or not, this is on YOU and with all the advice you just rebutt every thing so I doubt if you get it, but the problem is not the diet or calories it is YOU.

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

:huh: So only a few doctors in your state perform the surgery, and most nutritionists don't know enough about the surgery to give proper advice, yet you're attacking a person on the internet and calling them stupid for not knowing the specifics of your surgery. That makes sense.

A Duodenal Switch removes about 70% of the stomach and a portion of the small intestine. The idea is not only to reduce the stomach size (restricting amount of food) but also shortening the intestine where nutrients are absorbed (restricting absorption of fat, protein, and carbs, and micros); they do not get absorbed fully because the food doesn't stay in the body as long as it would with a full-length small intestine. Since not enough fat is absorbed, vitamin supplements are needed forever for the body to get the proper amount of fat-soluble nutrients.

Obviously, removing portions of organs and the amount of digestive time causes a hit to a person's TDEE, as less calories will be needed by the body to digest food.

Gastric Bypass has malabsorption too. Not my fault she did zero googling on the most popular WLS out there. Anyway, that is wrong. They don't remove ANY of the small intestines. The intestine portion of the DS is 100% reversible, actually. The stomach portion is not because they remove it.

catecholamine

They reroute your digestive juices to come in at the end of the small intestines. That's the Common Channel. No part of the intestines is removed.

LifeWithPie

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

Wow. You sound charming.

catecholamine

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

Wow. You sound charming.

Well, she calls me a liar and tells me I'm gorging myself and not logging. She sounded real charming too.
FYI it's not possible to gorge myself since I can only eat about 4oz at a time.

LifeWithPie

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

Wow. You sound charming.

Well, she calls me a liar and tells me I'm gorging myself and not logging. She sounded real charming too.

From reading all your posts in this thread you sound very angry with quite the attitude. What was the point of starting it? A rant perhaps? Or sympathy? Can't figure it out.

catecholamine

Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.

Wow. You sound charming.

Well, she calls me a liar and tells me I'm gorging myself and not logging. She sounded real charming too.

From reading all your posts in this thread you sound very angry with quite the attitude. What was the point of starting it? A rant perhaps? Or sympathy? Can't figure it out.

I would say it's pretty obvious.
If it was as simple as people claim, only calories in VS calories out, I would be losing massive amounts of weight.
I physically can't gorge myself. Which means I'm unlikely to be lying in any major way on my diary. When I eat less, I lose less. When I eat more, I lose more. So if it was as simple as calories in VS calories out, how does that make any sense?