Do you believe in strictly Calories In - Calories Out?
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#2 is a myth, I lost close to 50 lbs, lost around 4 lbs of water and packed around 12 lbs of muscle. Thats in six months, I am not done yet and have no problem losing fat and building muscle.
So you've lost 62 pounds of fat and gained 12 pounds of muscle simultaneously? Are you on roids?0 -
The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html
Why Calories Count
The Science Behind Why Calories Matter - And Why Dismissing Them Is Naive
http://ca.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/why-calories-count.html
"Aragon told me that no such study exists that shows people being overfed and losing weight. What’s more, there is no study in existence that shows people being underfed and not losing weight. "
Insulin…an Undeserved Bad Reputation
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
Adding Muscle While Losing Fat – Q&A
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html0 -
3. If you're in a calorie deficit over a day and eat say 3 meals then you're blood sugar will drop at some point after the meal and the insulin with it - at which point you'll be releasing and using more fat.
A different way of looking at it is that fat oxidation occurs in the gap between carbohydrate oxidation and energy demand. If you want to lose body fat make that gap bigger.0 -
#2 is a myth, I lost close to 50 lbs, lost around 4 lbs of water and packed around 12 lbs of muscle. Thats in six months, I am not done yet and have no problem losing fat and building muscle.
I'm also gaining muscle mass (albeit not a huge amount, but enough for it to be noticeable just from appearance and strength) while losing weight at a reasonable pace.0 -
#2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.
I'm not a fit mother f#*+er, but I think it's partially because you're not losing as much LBM/muscle mass (yay!). You're hopefully losing just fat. The 2.5lb deficit MFP assumes you're losing both.
EDIT: Also, asking if we believe in calories in/calories out is like asking if we believe in the law of gravity... um, duh.
Sorry I'm not as smart as you?
What is common sense for some is not common for others.0 -
As to calories in/calories out: For weight loss, yes, For nutrition, no.
Do you know flaming is against the terms of service here? You might want to think about that and cut it out since you only have two posts to your name.Alright you fit mother f#*+ers, educate me
Oops! Didn't know . Thanks for telling me.0 -
#2 is a myth, I lost close to 50 lbs, lost around 4 lbs of water and packed around 12 lbs of muscle. Thats in six months, I am not done yet and have no problem losing fat and building muscle.
I'm also gaining muscle mass (albeit not a huge amount, but enough for it to be noticeable just from appearance and strength) while losing weight at a reasonable pace.
Strength gains do not equal muscle mass gains
Appearance of muscle size increase does not equal muscle mass gains0 -
1. Yes, only caveat is that if you were to eat too high a percentage of carbohydrates for a long period of time, eventually your body would develop a resistance to insulin, and that changes the calorie balance equation, but if you eat a relatively balanced diet, then yes calories in vs calories out all the way.
2. Yes
3. The purpose of insulin is to lower the amount of glucose in your blood stream. When insulin is released, it shuttles glucose out of your blood stream and either stores it as glycogen in your muscles and liver or stores it as body fat. You are always storing fat and you are always oxidizing fat (burning fat). The relative rates of the two processes determine the whether you are netting a fat burn or netting a storage of fat at any given point in time. If at the end of the day your body has burned more calories than you have consumed, that means that your rate of fat oxidation was greater than your rate of fat storage for the day as a whole. Don't think of insulin as a bad thing, insulin is a good thing as long as you don't abuse it.
Wow.
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much man.0 -
I have PCOS and calories in/calories out has yet to be true for me. I can't speak for others, but I know that it simply is not that simple for me.0
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The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html
Why Calories Count
The Science Behind Why Calories Matter - And Why Dismissing Them Is Naive
http://ca.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/why-calories-count.html
"Aragon told me that no such study exists that shows people being overfed and losing weight. What’s more, there is no study in existence that shows people being underfed and not losing weight. "
Insulin…an Undeserved Bad Reputation
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
Adding Muscle While Losing Fat – Q&A
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
I'd add this link, it's an absolutely great article with 148 citations to scientific studies:
http://evidencemag.com/why-calories-count/0 -
As far as Ci v CO, I'm a believer.
Quite a few people aren't. I'm in a very long-term relationship with someone who has lots of obesity in his family. I've been working very, *very* hard since Jan. 1st and have thus far lost 50lbs. My significant other is happy for me, but thinks I'm just "lucky" (thanks for minimizing my hard work!!).
He cites his cousin as an example, because she, being obese (much moreso than I was when I started) was 'eating nothing but salads for a month and didn't lose anything,' and then had lap-band surgery and 'that's obviously been the key because she's lost like 60lbs in the last 2 months since she had it! So it didnt matter what she was eating."
... what in the hell does he think lap-band surgery does!? His father has the lap-band as well - it makes you unable to consume large amounts, and therefore - get this - means you CONSUME FEWER CALORIES. Seriously something I've been raging about lately lol.0 -
A couple questions. I used the search function but some of the info may be outdated - not sure.
#1) Do YOU believe in strictly calories in - calories out? As in, you could eat all of your calories in pure table sugar, and although its incredibly unhealthy, you would lose weight if you're in a caloric defecit? If so, is there ever a situation where a caloric deficit would NOT lead to weight loss?
#2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.
#3) If Insulin stores fat, how do we lose weight while eating carbs and sugars (even in a caloric deficit) while insulin levels are elevated?
Alright you fit mother f#*+ers, educate me.
Thanks.
1. Yes, calories in minus calories out equals loss or gain. There is a little more to it than that, but not a lot..
2. Weight stalling at the gym. Try measuring dimensions. THe truth is that the jury is still out on whether you can gain muscle while in calorie deficit. There are lots of arguments for and against the theories on MFP and the wider internet - just do a few searches to see what I mean.
3. Insulin storing fat is a common misconception. Insulin is a hormone that facilitates the transfer of sugar from the food into muscles and other tissues. If the body cannot produce enough insulin, this process is slowed and the cells resort to fat stores in the body (This is Type 1 diabetes and many would regard it as a gross oversimplification, but that's the nuts and bolts). Type 2 diabetes is where the body cannot effectively use the insulin it produces, and the blood sugar levels rise dangerously causing other issues. (Again, many would regard it as an oversimplification). This is why not all diabetics medicate with insulin.
So, insulin is used by the body to regulate the levels of blood sugar and to also store excess glucose as glycogen in the liver. Glycogen is easier to convert back to glucose than fat, hence the body goes to the liver first for high demands for energy
See also http://www.lillydiabetes.com/Pages/index.aspx,
or
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/in-depth/diabetes-treatment/art-20044084
or
http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Insulin.aspx
There are many other sites to look at after a quick search on the internet..0 -
As to calories in/calories out: For weight loss, yes, For nutrition, no.
Do you know flaming is against the terms of service here? You might want to think about that and cut it out since you only have two posts to your name.Alright you fit mother f#*+ers, educate me
For the record, OP, I thought that line was funny as hell :laugh:
Calories in calories out, yes
If you have certain medical conditions, you may find that it doesn't apply the way you expect it to. Either your metabolism slows way down or quickens way up, or some other such random reaction
Four weeks is about the mark I've heard for the muscles to start shedding the water weight they accumulated for repair
In healthy people, the body stores fat in a caloric surplus. I'm not 100% certain what insulin has to do with it0 -
A couple questions. I used the search function but some of the info may be outdated - not sure.
#1) Do YOU believe in strictly calories in - calories out? As in, you could eat all of your calories in pure table sugar, and although its incredibly unhealthy, you would lose weight if you're in a caloric defecit? If so, is there ever a situation where a caloric deficit would NOT lead to weight loss?
#2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.
#3) If Insulin stores fat, how do we lose weight while eating carbs and sugars (even in a caloric deficit) while insulin levels are elevated?
Thanks.
1. Yes. I wouldn't do that because that'd be gross. But I could.
2. Anytime I switch routines I stall in weight loss for about a month. Sucks but true
3. Hell if I know.0 -
#2 is a myth, I lost close to 50 lbs, lost around 4 lbs of water and packed around 12 lbs of muscle. Thats in six months, I am not done yet and have no problem losing fat and building muscle.
So you've lost 62 pounds of fat and gained 12 pounds of muscle simultaneously? Are you on roids?
LOL. No, I am lucky to know some pro coaches who train NFL athletes, not a bro coach. Its not very uncommon for people to gain muscle and lose fat. At least not where I take my advice from, there are plenty of studies which prove that.0 -
A couple questions. I used the search function but some of the info may be outdated - not sure.
#1) Do YOU believe in strictly calories in - calories out? As in, you could eat all of your calories in pure table sugar, and although its incredibly unhealthy, you would lose weight if you're in a caloric defecit? If so, is there ever a situation where a caloric deficit would NOT lead to weight loss?
If you define calories in as calories that are actually absorbed by the digestive system into the blood, then yes.
Maybe there are some medical exceptions, whereby calories in can't be used, e.g. type one diabetes - the lack of insulin means that the sugar can't get into the cells, the sugar ends up in the urine and the person's cells are starving. So yes, medical exceptions may be the case... but you can argue even in this case that the calories are not going into the cells, therefore they're not going in.
The guy who did the twinkie diet is the nearest experiment to what you suggested - it's not far from a diet of just pure sugar... yes if you ate at a deficit and nothing but sugar, you would lose weight. although the weight you lose will be lean body mass as well as fat, as your body will need to catabolise skeletal muscle to get the amino acids you need. Your health would suffer due to the lack of all the other nutrients the body needs and you'd probably die of kwashiorkor or some other protein deficiency disease before too long. (the twinkie diet guy supplemented his diet with protein powder and vitamin/mineral pills) But yes you would lose weight if you're in deficit... if you're eating a surplus of just pure sugar the excess would be stored as fat while the body would still have to catabolise your skeletal muscle to get amino acids, so you would end up extremely unhealthy, with too much fat and too little lean body mass.
I would never recommend a diet where the *only* thing you pay attention to is the calories - but calories in v calories out determines whether you lose weight or not... proper nutrition is for health and body composition. This is important to understand because so many people try hard to eat healthy and exercise, and then don't lose weight... because they're not in a calorie deficit. They wonder what they're doing wrong, and they are healthy and well nourished in all other aspects of health, but they're carrying too much fat that just won't go... it won't go because no matter how healthy their diet and how much they exercise, if they're not in calorie deficit, they won't lose weight.#2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.
Your muscles are storing more glycogen. This is a good thing and it's part of what makes you fitter and stronger. That makes them retain water. Yes, this masks fat loss on the scale and can do so for a while before the weight starts going down again... but if you really are eating at a deficit you will be burning fat.... Just that the weight of the fat being burned is offset by the weight of the water and glycogen your muscles are storing. It's also possible that your bone density is increasing - again this is a very good thing. Denser bones are heavier (your bones stay the same size/volume as before) so this is something else that will offset scale weight. But during all of this, your body is still burning fat as long as you're in deficit. It may not be noticeable, because you may be losing fat from places, e.g. upper back, that people don't measure with a tape measure or observe in the mirror. Which is why it's a good idea to take progress pictures from different angles, not just focus on belly flab. But if you're really in a calorie deficit, you'll be burning fat.
Please, in this situation, you need to ignore the scale and focus on the mirror and the tape measure, and the fact that you're improving your health and fitness too. The scale will catch up if you have a significant amount of fat to lose. If you only have a little fat to lose, then the scale might never catch up but really, if you fit into clothes a dress size or two smaller and look fitter and leaner, then why worry about what the scale says?
ETA: if you're new to weight training and were overfat when you started, then it is possible that you have gained some muscle, aka noob gains. This also would offset scale weight, but this is a one time gain and will not offset scale weight indefinitely. And if you're female, it won't be that much. For a young (especially adolescent) male, it could be quite a bit (although adolescents shouldn't be eating at a deficit without a paediatrician's supervision)#3) If Insulin stores fat, how do we lose weight while eating carbs and sugars (even in a caloric deficit) while insulin levels are elevated?
Biochemistry isn't my forte, but I'll have a go at this one. Insulin does not stop your body from burning fat. If you're in a calorie deficit, initially the shortfall will come from your body's glycogen but it will also start to use fat from your fat stores to make up the shortfall. The myth that you have to deplete all the sugar and glycogen from your body before fat burning starts comes from low carb gurus. It's not true. Your body balances fat and sugar burning, depending on what activity level you're doing at the time.... if you're pottering around at home you're probably running off mostly fat (but the total number of calories burned a minute is low)... if you're sprinting, you're running mostly off sugar, but you're still burning fat and the total number of calories burned a minute is much higher. More intense exercise requires more sugar, because your body can only burn so much fat at any one time. Insulin does not stop fat from being burned, nor does the presence of sugar in your blood. Your body runs off both, and insulin's role is in enabling the cells to use the sugar in the blood, and IIRC it has a role in fat storage, but it also has a role in the uptake of protein. Like I said, biochem is not my forte, but the picture painted of insulin being "bad" and "insulin is why carbs make you fat" is misleading. Carbs don't make you fat and insulin isn't bad. Anyone with type one diabetes can tell you just how important insulin is....
Wow part 2.
Thank you.
I'm in my late 20's ... 5 foot 11 inches ... 369 pounds.
I eat around 600 to 1200 calories a day.
I'm going to re-read your post a few times0 -
#2 is a myth, I lost close to 50 lbs, lost around 4 lbs of water and packed around 12 lbs of muscle. Thats in six months, I am not done yet and have no problem losing fat and building muscle.
I'm also gaining muscle mass (albeit not a huge amount, but enough for it to be noticeable just from appearance and strength) while losing weight at a reasonable pace.
Strength gains do not equal muscle mass gains
Appearance of muscle size increase does not equal muscle mass gains
Oh wait bod pod and Dexa scans must be a lie. I get bod pod every 2 weeks, Dexa and ultra sound every 4-6 weeks. I also do metabolic tests every 8-12 weeks.0 -
If at the end of the day your body has burned more calories than you have consumed, that means that your rate of fat oxidation was greater than your rate of fat storage for the day as a whole.
You could also have reduced your glycogen reserves, if you burned more carbohydrate than you ate / drank.0 -
As to calories in/calories out: For weight loss, yes, For nutrition, no.
Do you know flaming is against the terms of service here? You might want to think about that and cut it out since you only have two posts to your name.Alright you fit mother f#*+ers, educate me
For the record, OP, I thought that line was funny as hell :laugh:
Calories in calories out, yes
If you have certain medical conditions, you may find that it doesn't apply the way you expect it to. Either your metabolism slows way down or quickens way up, or some other such random reaction
Four weeks is about the mark I've heard for the muscles to start shedding the water weight they accumulated for repair
In healthy people, the body stores fat in a caloric surplus. I'm not 100% certain what insulin has to do with it
^This. A much nicer answer than my snarky quote.0 -
As to calories in/calories out: For weight loss, yes, For nutrition, no.
Do you know flaming is against the terms of service here? You might want to think about that and cut it out since you only have two posts to your name.Alright you fit mother f#*+ers, educate me
For the record, OP, I thought that line was funny as hell :laugh:
I thought it was funny too.
Guess it's a little more serious here than other forums I've been on.0
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