TGIF Thanks all you can eat appetizers.

ItsCasey

...making food more calorie laden than needed is wrong

Who decides how many calories are "needed?" You? Does this amount differ from person to person or meal to meal?

If I need 1600 calories a day, can I go to TGI Fridays and order 10 potato skins? Is that okay with you?

I was wrong. You're not French. You're a straight up Communist.

MandyMason7

Hello:

I'm Canadian, we don't have TGIF. I would like to know who I am to blame for becoming fat? Is it because I live on the border and American air has seeped over contaminating my "we don't even HAVE a buffet" town?

Please respond quickly, I just gained a pound.

I like you.

mojohowitz

How many times does this argument have to play out? It always seems to draw in the same people, too.


Like me. Dammit! Sucked in again.

fliedlice84

Where's the "like" button?!? LOL!

melaniefave41

Well, now I know where I'm going if I'm ever without cooking facilities and down to my last ten bucks.

I wonder how many hours you can sit there and stuff your face before the manager throws you out?

Probably as long as a Buffet?

Does it matter if you're not interested?

True, a buffet is about the same deal. Since losing weight I've pretty much wiped the concept of those from my memory.

Meh, I love my 3 trips a year to the awesome casino buffets and the OCB for breakfast after our hockey trip.

OCB!!! Ha!ha! I've never heard other people call it that. Yum.

Aaron_K123

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

jkwolly

Poutine.

POUTINE!

THE HOCKEY FOOD OF THE GODS!

Poutine is one of the greatest things about being Canadian.

"Break out the stretchy pants, Toronto. All-you-can-eat poutine is coming to town"

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5556797

Holy eff we need this in Edmonton!

Aaron_K123

Poutine.

POUTINE!

THE HOCKEY FOOD OF THE GODS!

Poutine is one of the greatest things about being Canadian.

"Break out the stretchy pants, Toronto. All-you-can-eat poutine is coming to town"

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5556797

Holy eff we need this in Edmonton!

Isn't that next door to Jasper and the Canadian Rockies? Damn, wish I could hop in my car and take a quick ride to that sort of wilderness for a nice poutine-fueled hike.

jenilla1

...Another "stuff your face America" let's get fatter move.

I'm only supporting restaurants taking the healthful high road.

To me, the problem lies with the customers. The people themselves create the demand. We live in a greedy, gluttonous society. (Yes, I'm judging :ohwell: ) If the people didn't love the trough, the restaurants wouldn't serve it up. From the looks of the people in my community, all-you-can-eat isn't going away any time soon.

I'm glad you're choosing to eat healthier (that's my choice, too.) Stuffing one's face with a never-ending smorgasbord of cheap, crappy food is kind of disgusting, but that's just my opinion, and my opinion is no more valuable than the next person's.

For me it's not about making a statement or achieving a moral high ground, it's about just doing the right thing for myself. Don't worry about other people's crappy choices. I'm sure you do things that other people think are horrible, too. :laugh:

jkwolly

Poutine.

POUTINE!

THE HOCKEY FOOD OF THE GODS!

Poutine is one of the greatest things about being Canadian.

"Break out the stretchy pants, Toronto. All-you-can-eat poutine is coming to town"

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5556797

Holy eff we need this in Edmonton!

Isn't that next door to Jasper and the Canadian Rockies? Damn, wish I could hop in my car and take a quick ride to that sort of wilderness for a nice poutine-fueled hike.

Yes! It's about 4hrs from the Rocky Mountains (either Jasper or Banff)! Calgary is only an hour, but who cares.

It's pretty awesome!

ETA: spelling.

acstansell

This is my husband's favorite place to eat. I like it too, but sometimes a break can be nice. Anyway, I doubt we'd partake in this, but they are shoveling the stuff in your face. You choose to do the all you can eat apps.

PikaKnight

This is my husband's favorite place to eat. I like it too, but sometimes a break can be nice. Anyway, I doubt we'd partake in this, but they are shoveling the stuff in your face. You choose to do the all you can eat apps.

How are they shoveling stuff in your face? Pretty sure that'd be illegal if a place were holding you down, forcing you to buy stuff and literally stuffing food into your mouth.

loriq41

Mmm closed diary.... would be interesting to pick yours apart and catch all the irony.

Truth! I love how when some people start to become more active and eat healthier that some develop that "holier than thou" attitude and all of a sudden mozzarella sticks are 'GROSS"...please...most of those people were eating their *kitten* off 6 months ago..geezus

dmenchac

Small print on the chain's website says, "Buy one appetizer at $10 each (per person) and get free refills on same appetizer." That means if you want those mozzarella sticks, you have to really want those mozzarella sticks. And it pays to want a lot of them.

loriq41

Small print on the chain's website says, "Buy one appetizer at $10 each (per person) and get free refills on same appetizer." That means if you want those mozzarella sticks, you have to really want those mozzarella sticks. And it pays to want a lot of them.

I really f**king want those mozzarella sticks...believe me....lol

RGv2

Small print on the chain's website says, "Buy one appetizer at $10 each (per person) and get free refills on same appetizer." That means if you want those mozzarella sticks, you have to really want those mozzarella sticks. And it pays to want a lot of them.

I don't see $20 for me and the wife to go out for endless buffalo wings during a game much of a catch.

Aaron_K123

Poutine.

POUTINE!

THE HOCKEY FOOD OF THE GODS!

Poutine is one of the greatest things about being Canadian.

"Break out the stretchy pants, Toronto. All-you-can-eat poutine is coming to town"

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5556797

Holy eff we need this in Edmonton!

Isn't that next door to Jasper and the Canadian Rockies? Damn, wish I could hop in my car and take a quick ride to that sort of wilderness for a nice poutine-fueled hike.

Yes! It's about 4hrs from the Rocky Mountains (either Jasper or Banff)! Calgary is only an hour, but who cares.

It's pretty awesome!

ETA: spelling.

Ive done two backpacks out there. A 160 mile through Banff, Kootney and Yoho and a 200 mile through Jasper and Mt Robson Provencial.

Have two pics in my profile frome those hikes, beautiful country.

DeguelloTex

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

Aaron_K123

This is my husband's favorite place to eat. I like it too, but sometimes a break can be nice. Anyway, I doubt we'd partake in this, but they are shoveling the stuff in your face. You choose to do the all you can eat apps.

How are they shoveling stuff in your face? Pretty sure that'd be illegal if a place were holding you down, forcing you to buy stuff and literally stuffing food into your mouth.

Ha ha, reminds me of a sushi conveyor belt style restaurant and outdoor garden that had a poorly translated sign that proclaimed proudly that you could "Enjoy that you is in the nature while food is brought to your face"

Aaron_K123

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

What? You mean health care? Yeah I view that as a basic human right that the citizenry of any country should be entitled to along with basic civil protections such as a police force, the ability to own and purchase land and shelter and food. I am not sure how one "forces" health care on someone anymore than you could have roads "forced" on you.

If we are going to have a government at all I view its purpose as allowing its citizenry a base of general health in which to participate in the free market. We do not profit economically ot socially from not treating the sick.

jkwolly

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

ZOMG NO! THE GOVERNMENT RUINS EVERYTHING

If people would just shut up and realize how AMAZING health care is, FFS!

DeguelloTex

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

What? You mean health care? Yeah I view that as a basic human right that the citizenry of any country should be entitled to along with basic civil protections such as a police force, the ability to own and purchase land and shelter and food. I am not sure how one "forces" health care on someone anymore than you could have roads "forced" on you.

If we are going to have a government at all I view its purpose as allowing its citizenry a base of general health in which to participate in the free market. We do not profit economically ot socially from not treating the sick.

Basic human right? Tell me how a "basic human right" can be such when it necessarily relies on conscripting the labor and resources of other people. Where did you get a "basic human right" to claim my work, or a doctor's work, or anyone's work to meet your needs?

As far as "forcing" healthcare, we are forced to pay taxes to support it and we are forced to buy particular kinds of health insurance, whether we want to or not.

I view a government's purpose as punishing aggression and fraud, enforcing contracts, and implementing a common physical infrastructure. I don't view it's purpose as taking money from Peter to give it to Paul.

Aaron_K123

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

What? You mean health care? Yeah I view that as a basic human right that the citizenry of any country should be entitled to along with basic civil protections such as a police force, the ability to own and purchase land and shelter and food. I am not sure how one "forces" health care on someone anymore than you could have roads "forced" on you.

If we are going to have a government at all I view its purpose as allowing its citizenry a base of general health in which to participate in the free market. We do not profit economically ot socially from not treating the sick.

Basic human right? Tell me how a "basic human right" can be such when it necessarily relies on conscripting the labor and resources of other people. Where did you get a "basic human right" to claim my work, or a doctor's work, or anyone's work to meet your needs?

As far as "forcing" healthcare, we are forced to pay taxes to support it and we are forced to buy particular kinds of health insurance, whether we want to or not.

I view a government's purpose as punishing aggression and fraud, enforcing contracts, and implementing a common physical infrastructure. I don't view it's purpose as taking money from Peter to give it to Paul.

lets be clear, unless we are willing to let people die on the street that could have been saved by medical care our tax money CURRENTLY pays for their treatment in a very ad hoc inneficient manner. Do you honestly think we end up with a cheaper more efficient system when we tutn away the homeless guy with the toothache unyil iy becomes a life threatening infection payed for by a 50,000 dollar ER visiy?

You speak a strong game but I have yet to meet someone whi took your position to yhe point of saying we should just let the sick and impoverished die when we could treat them.

The practical consideration therefore isn't between paying nothing or paying for health care, the choice is between payinh out the nose for ER trips rather than comprehensive preventative care.

The idea that basic health care would somehow cost more than ignoring the problem and assuming charities can domrhow handle it is ludicrous and easily refuted by looking at yhe per capita operating costs of health care of pretty much any developed nation versus the United States.

Aaron_K123

I view a government's purpose as punishing aggression and fraud, enforcing contracts, and implementing a common physical infrastructure. I don't view it's purpose as taking money from Peter to give it to Paul.

Out of curiosity how do you view maintaining infrastructure (something I agree the government should do) as not robbing Peter farmer to give to Paul urbanite?

With your answer can you further elaborate how this is different from providing a basic level of health care.

DeguelloTex

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

What? You mean health care? Yeah I view that as a basic human right that the citizenry of any country should be entitled to along with basic civil protections such as a police force, the ability to own and purchase land and shelter and food. I am not sure how one "forces" health care on someone anymore than you could have roads "forced" on you.

If we are going to have a government at all I view its purpose as allowing its citizenry a base of general health in which to participate in the free market. We do not profit economically ot socially from not treating the sick.

Basic human right? Tell me how a "basic human right" can be such when it necessarily relies on conscripting the labor and resources of other people. Where did you get a "basic human right" to claim my work, or a doctor's work, or anyone's work to meet your needs?

As far as "forcing" healthcare, we are forced to pay taxes to support it and we are forced to buy particular kinds of health insurance, whether we want to or not.

I view a government's purpose as punishing aggression and fraud, enforcing contracts, and implementing a common physical infrastructure. I don't view it's purpose as taking money from Peter to give it to Paul.

lets be clear, unless we are willing to let people die on yhe street that could have been saved by medical care our tax money CURRENTLY pays for their treatment in a very ad hoc inneficient manner.

You speak a strong game but I have yet to meet someone whi took your position to yhe point of saying we should just let the sick and impoverished die when we could treat them.

The practical consideration therefore isn't between paying nothing or paying for health care, the choice is between payinh out the nose for ER trips rather than comprehensive preventative care.

The idea that basic health care would somehow cost more than ignoring the problem and assuming charities can domrhow handle it is ludicrous and easily refuted by looking at yhe per capita operating costs of health care of pretty much any developed nation versus the United States.

You conflate the cost of keeping the sick and impoverished from dying with per capita operating health care costs. They aren't the same thing.

Just because something might be a good thing to do doesn't mean it has to be done by the government at gunpoint. And if it does have to be done by the government at gun point, why is that? If we're not willing to let people die in the street, why wouldn't the money and other resources be made available voluntarily? And, if those resources aren't forthcoming, why is taking them by force justified?

Maybe our tax money can be spent more efficiently. Maybe the VA would be a good model for how the government would do it.

Aaron_K123

OP quick question for you, or a question for anyone really who chooses to answer. Which world, as an adult, would you like to live in:

World A: One person has decided that the world should conform to their own personal needs and has set up regulations for businesses and social life that will make the world the most convenient for them and there needs. They eat 3 times a day and want to get about 1500 calories per day so they require that all restaurant served meals come to an even 500 calories so that they don't have to think about it and can just grab whatever 3 meals look tasty throughout the day. Of course that might not conform to everyone's needs but hey, its convenient for them and that is what matters.

World B: A consumer driven marketplace has allowed for a large amount of diversity in choices that are available. Meals served at restaurants range all over the place from 100 calorie green leaf salads to 2000 calorie triple bacon cheeseburgers. No one is forced to eat what they don't want to eat but they have a choice based on what is available in the market.


By the way before we launch into some silliness about conservative versus liberal (well American politics anyways) let me say I'm actually quite liberal in my politics and support things such as government provided universal healthcare provided by taxation. That said I also think that when it comes down to what you put in your own mouth that its about personal responsibility.

So, you're fine with the government forcing things with which you agree, just not restaurant meals. A whose ox is gored political philosophy. Nice.

What? You mean health care? Yeah I view that as a basic human right that the citizenry of any country should be entitled to along with basic civil protections such as a police force, the ability to own and purchase land and shelter and food. I am not sure how one "forces" health care on someone anymore than you could have roads "forced" on you.

If we are going to have a government at all I view its purpose as allowing its citizenry a base of general health in which to participate in the free market. We do not profit economically ot socially from not treating the sick.

Basic human right? Tell me how a "basic human right" can be such when it necessarily relies on conscripting the labor and resources of other people. Where did you get a "basic human right" to claim my work, or a doctor's work, or anyone's work to meet your needs?

As far as "forcing" healthcare, we are forced to pay taxes to support it and we are forced to buy particular kinds of health insurance, whether we want to or not.

I view a government's purpose as punishing aggression and fraud, enforcing contracts, and implementing a common physical infrastructure. I don't view it's purpose as taking money from Peter to give it to Paul.

lets be clear, unless we are willing to let people die on yhe street that could have been saved by medical care our tax money CURRENTLY pays for their treatment in a very ad hoc inneficient manner.

You speak a strong game but I have yet to meet someone whi took your position to yhe point of saying we should just let the sick and impoverished die when we could treat them.

The practical consideration therefore isn't between paying nothing or paying for health care, the choice is between payinh out the nose for ER trips rather than comprehensive preventative care.

The idea that basic health care would somehow cost more than ignoring the problem and assuming charities can domrhow handle it is ludicrous and easily refuted by looking at yhe per capita operating costs of health care of pretty much any developed nation versus the United States.

You conflate the cost of keeping the sick and impoverished from dying with per capita operating health care costs. They aren't the same thing.

Just because something might be a good thing to do doesn't mean it has to be done by the government at gunpoint. And if it does have to be done by the government at gun point, why is that? If we're not willing to let people die in the street, why wouldn't the money and other resources be made available voluntarily? And, if those resources aren't forthcoming, why is taking them by force justified?

Maybe our tax money can be spent more efficiently. Maybe the VA would be a good model for how the government would do it.

We dont let people die, we do treat them but only when they are about to die...if they cannot afford preventative care then they don't recieve it which just ends up costing us, the tax payer, far more.

Not letting people die whom you can help is something we do but at great and unnecessary cost compared to if we had just provided a universal basic level of preventative care.

Treat the toothache, not the life threatening infection.

The idea that this basic preventative care will be somehow provided by the free market or private citizens is evidentally false because obviously it isn't.

Our tax bill for medical care is not low. An orchastrated system of basic universal preventative care is the more fiscally practical way of dealing with the ethical concern we frankly have to deal with anyways. It will help people before the are in a life threatening situation and it will save us money by lowering overall cost.

As I said I have never met someone who actually thought it was okay to let people with treatable conditions die. Who do you think pays for that currently if not us?

DeguelloTex

Out of curiosity how do uou view maintaining infrastructure (something I agree the government should do) as not robbing Peter farmer to give to Paul urbanite?

Wiyh your answer can you further elaborate how this is different from providing a basic level of health care.

If Peter the farmer mines his own ore and grows his own trees to build his own tools and drills and refines whatever petrochemicals he uses and doesn't attach to the electrical grid or use city water and doesn't use the roads to go into town to buy from shops and has no use for the court system and basically operates independently of all that infrastructure then, hell yeah, don't tax him for it. Some reasonable amount -- not sure what the numbers would work out to be -- toward national defense because it's pretty hard to opt out of benefitting from that would be about it.

I wouldn't force Peter the farmer to pay for something he didn't use any more than I would force someone else to lay for someone else's healthcare.

DeguelloTex

The idea that this basic preventative care will be somehow provided by the free market or private citizens is evidentally false.

Private citizens are doing it now. What the government spends it gets from taxes or bonds (for the most part) from private citizens. What you're arguing isn't really government vs. private citizens -- the government essentially doesn't have money of its own -- it's private citizens doing it by choice vs. private citizens doing it at gunpoint. That aside, your argument basically comes down to saying that we are willing to let people die in the streets unless someone else forces us not to, right?

Aaron_K123

Out of curiosity how do uou view maintaining infrastructure (something I agree the government should do) as not robbing Peter farmer to give to Paul urbanite?

Wiyh your answer can you further elaborate how this is different from providing a basic level of health care.

If Peter the farmer mines his own ore and grows his own trees to build his own tools and drills and refines whatever petrochemicals he uses and doesn't attach to the electrical grid or use city water and doesn't use the roads to go into town to buy from shops and has no use for the court system and basically operates independently of all that infrastructure then, hell yeah, don't tax him for it. Some reasonable amount -- not sure what the numbers would work out to be -- toward national defense because it's pretty hard to opt out of benefitting from that would be about it.

I wouldn't force Peter the farmer to pay for something he didn't use any more than I would force someone else to lay for someone else's healthcare.

So you recognize that in reality even a farmer is actually very much supported by the infastructure of a city and yet you do not recognize how societies ability to function is dependent upon healthcare.

Do you know a lot of stable civilizations without healthcare? I am sorry but a farmer who doesn't drive on city roads is still very much supported by those roads and in the same way you and I, even if we never get sick, are supported by the framework of general healthcare that underpins a functional society. Pretending we don't need it doesn't do us any fiscal favors.

DeguelloTex

Out of curiosity how do uou view maintaining infrastructure (something I agree the government should do) as not robbing Peter farmer to give to Paul urbanite?

Wiyh your answer can you further elaborate how this is different from providing a basic level of health care.

If Peter the farmer mines his own ore and grows his own trees to build his own tools and drills and refines whatever petrochemicals he uses and doesn't attach to the electrical grid or use city water and doesn't use the roads to go into town to buy from shops and has no use for the court system and basically operates independently of all that infrastructure then, hell yeah, don't tax him for it. Some reasonable amount -- not sure what the numbers would work out to be -- toward national defense because it's pretty hard to opt out of benefitting from that would be about it.

I wouldn't force Peter the farmer to pay for something he didn't use any more than I would force someone else to lay for someone else's healthcare.

So you recognize that in reality even a farmer is actually very much supported by the infastructure of a city and yet you do not recognize how societies ability to function is dependent upon healthcare.

Do you know a lot of stable civilizations without healthcare? I am sorry but a farmer who doesn't drive on city roads is still very much supported by those roads and in the same way you and I, even if we never get sick, are supported by the framework of general healthcare that underpins a functional society. Pretending we don't need it doesn't do us any fiscal favors.

You're the one who set up the hypothetical. Don't get upset with me for understanding that Peter the farmer really does benefit from that infrastructure unless he is an honest to God island of his own. Therefore, taxing him is not at all equivalent to taking money from him to give to someone else.

Even granting for the sake of argument that a society's ability to function is dependent on having people pay for the healthcare of others -- as dubious as that is -- you still haven't shown why that must be done via compulsion. Again, if you think the only way to get people to pay is to force them to pay, you're tacitly admitting that we are willing to let people die in the streets even though you claim we aren't. Which is it?