Fruit = sugar ... arghh!!
Replies
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My extreme limiting of carbohydrates and sugar is going REALLY well for me, actually - thanks for asking.
My chronic acid reflux is gone. My insomnia is gone. My acne is gone. My hair and nails are stronger. My poor circulation is no longer a problem. I no longer want to take a nap halfway through the day.
Dietary sugar and carbs are not necessary for health. Your body can create the necessary blood glucose for bodily functions from dietary protein.
The human body would be a real piece of **** if it hadn't evolved a metabolic pathway for dealing with carbohydrate restriction. (Which, before agriculture, was about 85% of the year)
We have very little idea what carb sources were eaten pre-agriculture because they break down in the gut pretty quickly and don't leave bones etc, so we rely on the discovery of 'mummified' corpses in bogs etc.
For example - in northern Europe, the flag iris produces a very edible, very carb-rich tuber and it is found at almost every still or slow moving water source. Do you think that pre-agricultural man did not know this? Just because we no longer eat certain foods and they have not been eaten for so long they are not remembered in folk-memory or historical document does not mean they were never consumed.
(Reasons Paleo is bollocks no.274 )0 -
LazerMole are you aware of the Fruitarian movement? Quite a number of elite athletes have gone away from simply vegan to exclusively fruit. None of them are overweight. I guess they're all exceptions to the rule...0
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001
Most notably the part that reads: These experiments show that elevations in insulin produce increased hunger, heightened perceived pleasantness of sweet taste, and increased food intake.
You know what increases insulin levels? Eating simple sugars.
You know what insulin does? Helps trigger muscle development.
Not sure where you get that. My understanding is it regulates the metabolism of fat and carbohydrates. Specifically, insulin stop you from burning fat. Maybe Wikipedia needs to be updated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-muscle-building-messenger-complete-guide-to-insulin.html
You're welcome.0 -
Fruits are mostly useless, and are a common trigger for people to over consume because they think "Oh, it's FRUIT! It must be healthy!". But your body goes "Oh, it's SUGAR! Give me more SUGAR!" and pretty soon you're craving any ol' sweet thing.
Fruit is not a gateway drug to more sugar for me.
I've never binged on fruit and I don't crave more sugar from other sources when I eat it.
Right now, I'm enjoying the cherries and cantaloupes that are particularly tasty at this time of year.
Now, if we're talking cakes, donuts and ice-cream, well then yes, those lead me to seeking more sugar.
Not fruit.
n=10 -
My extreme limiting of carbohydrates and sugar is going REALLY well for me, actually - thanks for asking.
My chronic acid reflux is gone. My insomnia is gone. My acne is gone. My hair and nails are stronger. My poor circulation is no longer a problem. I no longer want to take a nap halfway through the day.
Dietary sugar and carbs are not necessary for health. Your body can create the necessary blood glucose for bodily functions from dietary protein.
The human body would be a real piece of **** if it hadn't evolved a metabolic pathway for dealing with carbohydrate restriction. (Which, before agriculture, was about 85% of the year)
We have very little idea what carb sources were eaten pre-agriculture because they break down in the gut pretty quickly and don't leave bones etc, so we rely on the discovery of 'mummified' corpses in bogs etc.
For example - in northern Europe, the flag iris produces a very edible, very carb-rich tuber and it is found at almost every still or slow moving water source. Do you think that pre-agricultural man did not know this? Just because we no longer eat certain foods and they have not been eaten for so long they are not remembered in folk-memory or historical document does not mean they were never consumed.
(Reasons Paleo is bollocks no.274 )
Cattail roots and sprouts...0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001
Most notably the part that reads: These experiments show that elevations in insulin produce increased hunger, heightened perceived pleasantness of sweet taste, and increased food intake.
You know what increases insulin levels? Eating simple sugars.
You know what insulin does? Helps trigger muscle development.
Not sure where you get that. My understanding is it regulates the metabolism of fat and carbohydrates. Specifically, insulin stop you from burning fat. Maybe Wikipedia needs to be updated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin
All the damn back and forth on MFP. Stick around. You'll read more original research than you would to get a Master's Degree.0 -
Nobody got fat by eating fruits.
Just sayin'
I've never known anyone to live on fruit alone?
That's my point.
Please do list the single type of food that makes people fat. Is it grains? dairy? vegetables?0 -
Nobody got fat by eating fruits.
Just sayin'
I've never known anyone to live on fruit alone?
That's my point.
Please do list the single type of food that makes people fat. Is it grains? dairy? vegetables?
It's that last whatever type you put in your mouth once you went over your TDEE for the moment.
Hell, it could be that Weight Watchers Sante Fe Chicken if you went over your cals for the day.0 -
Nobody got fat by eating fruits.
Just sayin'
I've never known anyone to live on fruit alone?
That's my point.
Please do list the single type of food that makes people fat. Is it grains? dairy? vegetables?
It's that last whatever type you put in your mouth once you went over your TDEE for the moment.
Hell, it could be that Weight Watchers Sante Fe Chicken if you went over your cals for the day.
Impossible WW food never made anyone fat. Ever. It's mathematically impossible because WW makes foods for weight loss...just like fruit is "healthy" because it's fruit which makes it healthy and therefore, it's impossible for it to make anyone fat...
...because science...
...and stuff.
DYEScience?0 -
I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Go to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else?0
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[/quote]
All the damn back and forth on MFP. Stick around. You'll read more original research than you would to get a Master's Degree.
[/quote]
THIS!0 -
well said0
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Nobody got fat by eating fruits.
Just sayin'
I've never known anyone to live on fruit alone?
That's my point.
Please do list the single type of food that makes people fat. Is it grains? dairy? vegetables?
It's that last whatever type you put in your mouth once you went over your TDEE for the moment.
Hell, it could be that Weight Watchers Sante Fe Chicken if you went over your cals for the day.
MMM. Santa Fe Chicken over a bed of lettuce, cheese and red onion and some oil and red vinegar.0 -
"I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Got to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else? "
This!
And I think I want an apple now.. followed by a kitkat bar.0 -
Nobody got fat by eating fruits.
Just sayin'
I've never known anyone to live on fruit alone?
That's my point.
Please do list the single type of food that makes people fat. Is it grains? dairy? vegetables?
Everybody who ever got fat either had breast milk or formula when they were infants.0 -
I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Got to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else?
This. Do whatever works for you. Just don't tell others that they must stop eating fruit since you think that worked for you. (I seriously doubt that dropping fruit really made a difference but if so, like I said before, bummer! I mostly eat fruit in the warmer months, but summer fruit is fabulous and I'm glad I can eat peaches and cherries, among other possibilities).My chronic acid reflux is gone. My insomnia is gone. My acne is gone. My hair and nails are stronger. My poor circulation is no longer a problem. I no longer want to take a nap halfway through the day.
Yes, it's such a shame that everyone who eats fruit has acid reflux, insomnia, acne, weak hair and nails, poor circulation, etc. Oh, wait, what? We don't? That's a relief!0 -
My chronic acid reflux is gone. My insomnia is gone. My acne is gone. My hair and nails are stronger. My poor circulation is no longer a problem. I no longer want to take a nap halfway through the day.Yes, it's such a shame that everyone who eats fruit has acid reflux, insomnia, acne, weak hair and nails, poor circulation, etc. Oh, wait, what? They don't! That's a relief.
I'm allergic to penicillin. Perhaps I should start a crusade to get everyone else to stop using it, too. :laugh:0 -
I have lots of fruit every day, and im a diabetic that can control my disease with proper nutrition and exercise and no meds... must be doing it wrong.
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Honestly I gave low-carb (Ketosis) a legitimate try recently.
I spent about 6 weeks at under 20 net carbs a day.
I was tired, sluggish (that energy boost everyone else gets, didn't happen), foggy minded, weak, constantly hungry, famished, hangry and emotional the entire time.
It was miserable.
And, I got sick, truly sick, and missed two days of work, for the first time in years.
20 net carbs is not enough for me to take in the fruit and veg level my body thrives on.
I've seen it do "miracles" for others, but my body doesn't jive with it's chemistry.
I went back to normal diet (which is still pretty low carb) but I've been really enjoying bananas, mangos, and sushi!
I love not caring less if I go over 20 carbs and my keto stick is clear than I feel sluggish for days because I just couldn't live without another serving of veg. That's kind of like intentionally dieting yourself into sickness.
Good luck!
Do what works for you.
PS I lost 0 weight in keto. I truly believe what I did lose was water weight because I started in the 180's, ended in the 180's, and I'm still in the 180's. Lots of suffering for 0 progress.0 -
Honestly I gave low-carb (Ketosis) a legitimate try recently.
I spent about 6 weeks at under 20 net carbs a day.
I was tired, sluggish (that energy boost everyone else gets, didn't happen), foggy minded, weak, constantly hungry, famished, hangry and emotional the entire time.
It was miserable.
And, I got sick, truly sick, and missed two days of work, for the first time in years.
20 net carbs is not enough for me to take in the fruit and veg level my body thrives on.
I've seen it do "miracles" for others, but my body doesn't jive with it's chemistry.
I went back to normal diet (which is still pretty low carb) but I've been really enjoying bananas, mangos, and sushi!
I love not caring less if I go over 20 carbs and my keto stick is clear than I feel sluggish for days because I just couldn't live without another serving of veg. That's kind of like intentionally dieting yourself into sickness.
Good luck!
Do what works for you.
PS I lost 0 weight in keto. I truly believe what I did lose was water weight because I started in the 180's, ended in the 180's, and I'm still in the 180's. Lots of suffering for 0 progress.
You gave it a good shot and now you know more about yourself. Great job!0 -
I just wish I knew as much as LazerMole. Based on her posts here and her bio, she is clearly wayyyy smarter than I will ever be.0
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Hi, my name is Mike and I am here for the lulz.
*goes back to gnawing on a banana*0 -
My extreme limiting of carbohydrates and sugar is going REALLY well for me, actually - thanks for asking.
My chronic acid reflux is gone. My insomnia is gone. My acne is gone. My hair and nails are stronger. My poor circulation is no longer a problem. I no longer want to take a nap halfway through the day.
Congratulations on your success; it's wonderful that you've found what works for you! I am curious though- are limiting carbohydrates and sugars the only changes you've made? Are you eating the same as before with only that exception? If not- if you are eating a wider range of vegetables than before, leaner meats, etc... I would argue it is a confluence of these things that has contributed to your success.
Personally, I don't have a problem with fruit- I don't eat an apple or some watermelon and then find myself stuffing my face with more fruit (or sugar of any fashion, for that matter). I have a difficulty with cookies and chips, so I stay away from them. Oh, and my mother's cheesecake- it's all sorts of evil deliciousness... but I digress. Very nearly every day, I eat two things that keep me sane- cashews and dark chocolate. Maybe it's a micronutrient thing, maybe it's just psychological, but the cashews keep me from wanting chips, and the dark chocolate satisfies my sweet tooth perfectly. My fave is Lindt Black Currant. YUM.
What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa. To tout that one's path is the be-all and end all, that everyone who does not agree is wrong, is well... wrong.
Cheers! :drinker:0 -
I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Go to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else?
Just as I do not understand why people jump in on newbies seeking advice for their newly adopted Keto WOE with "it's all about moderation not restriction!" and "unless you have diabetes, you should still eat carbs!"
Opinions run rampant on the message boards and I see them coming from ALL directions.0 -
Sorry to burst your bubbles up in here, but sugar is sugar.
Your body does not say "Oh, well THIS sugar came from an APPLE, so I'm going to treat it differently than if it had come from a CANDY BAR".
It's still sugar. It still rots your teeth. It still stimulates the production of insulin.
Fruit these days is absolutely ridiculous and has been bred over years and years to be more packed with sugar and less packed with fiber.
The only outliers in this tend to be berries. They have sugar, but are still primarily fiber, and can be eaten in moderation. If you're worried about your vitamins and minerals, eat more non-starchy vegetables.
Fruits are mostly useless, and are a common trigger for people to over consume because they think "Oh, it's FRUIT! It must be healthy!". But your body goes "Oh, it's SUGAR! Give me more SUGAR!" and pretty soon you're craving any ol' sweet thing.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: What the heck are you spouting off about? Giggle * infinity squared (for all those that might wish to join in the uproarous laughter) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
You know what else insulin does? Helps trigger storage of fat.
I love how this post immediately followed this guy's post:
Hey, SS...maybe lay off the fruit and you won't store so much fat.
:laugh:
Yeah Sidesteel. No more bananas for you!!!!0 -
I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Go to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else?
Just as I do not understand why people jump in on newbies seeking advice for their newly adopted Keto WOE with "it's all about moderation not restriction!" and "unless you have diabetes, you should still eat carbs!"
Opinions run rampant on the message boards and I see them coming from ALL directions.
And they are just that- opinions. From what I've seen in the year and a half on MFP, most people are just trying to help. Very often, people who are giving the advice you mention do so because they've "been there, done that". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who preaches moderation or the like to be pushing it down peoples throats, saying it's the "only" way. For the vast majority of people, it's usually the best way (note I did not say the *only* way), because drastic changes are more difficult to make stick for the rest of ones life.0 -
I will never understand the religious fervor that some low-carb people try to whip up. If it works for you, fantastic. Go to town. But why do they feel compelled to try and convert everyone else?
Just as I do not understand why people jump in on newbies seeking advice for their newly adopted Keto WOE with "it's all about moderation not restriction!" and "unless you have diabetes, you should still eat carbs!"
Opinions run rampant on the message boards and I see them coming from ALL directions.
And they are just that- opinions. From what I've seen in the year and a half on MFP, most people are just trying to help. Very often, people who are giving the advice you mention do so because they've "been there, done that". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who preaches moderation or the like to be pushing it down peoples throats, saying it's the "only" way. For the vast majority of people, it's usually the best way (note I did not say the *only* way), because drastic changes are more difficult to make stick for the rest of ones life.
I have found most of the time when people say "don't eat sugar or carbs if you are diabetic" are never diabetic and really have no idea what they are talking about.0 -
Have you heard of Freelee, the Banana girl?
I don't promote this but it is too funny and appropriate not to post. :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Freelea
She is an idiot. I'm the guinea pig for her way of life. 2 days ago I had her 'datorade' the 8 bananas & 3 date smoothie. It's taken me 2 days to get over it. My body went into survival mode with the way it felt & I was on the toilet for most of the day.
I've had fights with her over it & the fact that other people think she is great and a guru. They have put ON weight following her eating. Yep nothing but fruit & they put on 40lb or more.
She then claims to have 'the backing of a Dr' all cause she got a full set of bloods done..... NO HUN that is NOT a Dr backing you..... anyone & I mean ANYONE can ask for bloodwork. I've told her that I fast.... she basically said that I sleep worse, have bags under my eyes & have less energy...... yeah ok.... all without seeing me. I sleep like a baby, no bags ever & energy??? ADHD & OCD wont let me stop.... energy enough? My Dr DOES back my way of life..... funny how I mentioned hers.... and he shook his head.
People follow her every word like sheeple & then when they still put on weight think it's normal...... 2500 cals MINIMUM for women....from her.... regardless of what your TDEE is.0 -
Sorry to burst your bubbles up in here, but sugar is sugar.
Your body does not say "Oh, well THIS sugar came from an APPLE, so I'm going to treat it differently than if it had come from a CANDY BAR".
It's still sugar. It still rots your teeth. It still stimulates the production of insulin.
Fruit these days is absolutely ridiculous and has been bred over years and years to be more packed with sugar and less packed with fiber.
The only outliers in this tend to be berries. They have sugar, but are still primarily fiber, and can be eaten in moderation. If you're worried about your vitamins and minerals, eat more non-starchy vegetables.
Fruits are mostly useless, and are a common trigger for people to over consume because they think "Oh, it's FRUIT! It must be healthy!". But your body goes "Oh, it's SUGAR! Give me more SUGAR!" and pretty soon you're craving any ol' sweet thing.
You clearly have no biochemistry background because this statement couldn't be more wrong. First of all, sugars are different. Different in composition and different in processing.
Sucrose (table sugar) is a disaccharide of fructose and glucose. When it enters the body and is broken down into saccharides. The glucose and fructose are handled much differently. In fact, most saccharides go through different routes during processing in the body.
Glucose is most easily used by the body and is stored as the polysaccharide glycogen in the liver and muscles. It goes through many cycles and is easily broken down back into saccharide form and sent/used by other parts of the body.
Fructose, on the other hand, is transported to the liver almost completely. In the liver it is converted to fructose-1-phosphate. Fructose-1-phosphate skips the major glycolysis regulation by phosphofructokinase and is converted to glyceraldehyde and dihydroxyacetone phosphate by aldolase B, where it re-enters glycolysis.
The important part there, if you missed it, is that it skips regulation by the primary glycolysis regulating enzyme, phosphofructokinase. This allows pyruvate to accumulate more readily than in the case of glucose and this allows it to more readily be converted into fatty acids through fatty acid synthesis in cases of pyruvate excess.
(relax, fatty acid synthesis and oxidation occurs every second and if oxidation wins for that time period , then you lose fat)
There is a difference with how your body reacts to every single saccharide (ok, mostly).
That being said, fruit, that you call worthless, are loaded with crazy-healthy polyphenols and fiber. Fiber slows absorption of the fructose, limiting fructose in the blood, limiting fructose in the liver, slowing conversion to pyruvate, and slowing fatty acid biosynthesis when compared to sucrose (table sugar). Since it absorbs slower, the pyruvate that it makes is more likely to be used by the kreb cycle than fructose (HFCS) found outside of fruit.
I know I'm probably late to the discussion but figured I'd add some science.0
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