Veganism

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  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    The goop left over from the baby boys (that the FARMER uses) is simply thrown away.
    Usually repurposed for pet feed or compost. Along with eggs. The process is visibly rough to see, but it happens so fast that their CNS doesn't have time to sense and respond to the stimulus. I hope when I go it is as quick, although, I'd prefer it to not be in a big grinder.
    The extractor used (by the chicken FACTORY) to get all the remaining meat/edible parts off of a chicken carcass to get chicken nugget goop is a very similar process, however it's NOT from live chicks- it's from the bones and mostly tendons after the prime cuts of chicken meat have been stripped off.
    Somewhat similar, but it's also the same process used to get anchovy paste, crab paste, shrimp paste, etc.
  • ScaryMaryOne
    ScaryMaryOne Posts: 13 Member
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    At JoRocka,
    morality is the only pro to veganism

    "this. There is no health reason to go full vegan. [/quote]"

    I disagree completely. There are many health reasons to go vegan, but the two biggest are prevention-related. Veganism has been proven to effectively prevent heart disease and diabetes, and to reverse them in people who are afflicted with heart disease and diabetes. The Mediterranean diet comes close too. So I think it is WRONG to say there is no health reason to go full vegan.

    Don't believe me? Google Dr. Esselstine and Dr. Lustig.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
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    There really is no debate to be had. It's a totally personal choice that requires no justification.

    I am mostly vegan/vegetarian because I choose to be.

    You and I may be on completely opposite sides of the diet spectrum, but on this we agree. If you want to be vegan, you have no requirement to justify your choice to anyone. If you don't want to be, you also have no requirement to justify that decision.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    morality is the only pro to veganism

    "this. There is no health reason to go full vegan."

    I disagree completely. There are many health reasons to go vegan, but the two biggest are prevention-related. Veganism has been proven to effectively prevent heart disease and diabetes, and to reverse them in people who are afflicted with heart disease and diabetes. The Mediterranean diet comes close too. So I think it is WRONG to say there is no health reason to go full vegan.

    Don't believe me? Google Dr. Esselstine and Dr. Lustig.

    Please post peer reviewed articles from scholarly journals supporting the prevention and reversal of heart disease and diabetes with only a switch to veganism, and not other modifiers such as reduced weight due to intake of fewer calories.

    I'll check back in a few, I'm very curious to see that.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    All credibility is shot out the window when Lustig is brought up.
  • BigT555
    BigT555 Posts: 2,068 Member
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    At JoRocka,
    morality is the only pro to veganism

    "this. There is no health reason to go full vegan.
    "

    I disagree completely. There are many health reasons to go vegan, but the two biggest are prevention-related. Veganism has been proven to effectively prevent heart disease and diabetes, and to reverse them in people who are afflicted with heart disease and diabetes. The Mediterranean diet comes close too. So I think it is WRONG to say there is no health reason to go full vegan.

    Don't believe me? Google Dr. Esselstine and Dr. Lustig.
    ill read up on this when i have time later tonight, but ill say this for now, there may be health related positives to veganism, but there are also negatives (previously mentioned in this thread; anemia, vitamin deficiencies) . the real question is do the pro's outweigh the cons

    also, quick google search yeilded some results that disagree with Esselstine and Lustig;
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20479151
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23497300
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    All credibility is shot out the window when Lustig is brought up.
    Say his name 3 times and derp appears.
  • MaiLinna
    MaiLinna Posts: 580 Member
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    Now now, don't go bashing me personally. I am simply listing, mostly word for word, arguments I found on other sites and blogs I was perusing today.
    I am not bashing you personally. I am pointing out that pretty much everything on your lists aren't actually evidence in either direction.
    Except chicken nugget goop. Male chicks are thrown live into a grinder. I saw it. Don't tell me that's not how we get chicken nugget goop because I watched it firsthand.

    *sigh*

    Male chicks are typically culled. Despite the apparent horror of the grinder, it is actually one of the quickest and most humane ways to kill these unwanted male chicks. Death is almost instantaneous. It's horrible. I'm not arguing that it's not. But, it's not cruel.

    As for the ground up chicks, they are not part of the components of chicken nuggets. That is just plain false. It may be sold in pet foods, or other animal feeds, but it is not sold for human consumption. You're not eating ground up male chicks when you eat nuggets.

    Don't eat the nuggets in Mexico then. XD I'm warnin ya.
  • ScaryMaryOne
    ScaryMaryOne Posts: 13 Member
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    "Who cares?"

    Obviously, you care. You have posted an extremely long item here! Taking such time shows that you care.

    For whatever that is worth . . .
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    At dbmata,

    "Who cares?"

    Obviously, you care. You have posted an extremely long item here! Taking such time shows that you care.

    For whatever that is worth . . .
    Very informative and convincing response there.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
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    Don't eat the nuggets in Mexico then. XD I'm warnin ya.

    Do you have a source that demonstrates this claim (ground up male chicks are used in chicken nuggets available in Mexico)? If not, please don't spread this sort of nonsense.
  • leahraskie
    leahraskie Posts: 260 Member
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    Most doctors don't recommend complete veganism. It's mostly because there is too many restrictions on food and sometimes it is difficult to get all nutrients even on a vegetarian diet. So I'd suggest vegetarian is a better way to go.
  • darkguardian419
    darkguardian419 Posts: 1,302 Member
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    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    that's about all I can say without getting my hand smacked.
  • mountainrun73
    mountainrun73 Posts: 155 Member
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    I find this topic and most parts of this thread interesting. I have been curious about vegetarian/vegan styles of eating for a while, and often have meat-free meals or whole days. But not sure I'd be able to go meat free entirely, as sometimes I crave animal protein.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    Most doctors don't recommend complete veganism. It's mostly because there is too many restrictions on food and sometimes it is difficult to get all nutrients even on a vegetarian diet. So I'd suggest vegetarian is a better way to go.

    Most doctors know very little about nutrition.
  • MaiLinna
    MaiLinna Posts: 580 Member
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    Don't eat the nuggets in Mexico then. XD I'm warnin ya.

    Do you have a source that demonstrates this claim (ground up male chicks are used in chicken nuggets available in Mexico)? If not, please don't spread this sort of nonsense.

    No he was forced to remove the video because it was too graphic. :( I've tried for over a week to find it elsewhere. No luck. I heard he got fired for posting it on Facebook though.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
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    "He" posted a video showing male chicks being ground and then made into nuggets to be served in Mexico? he lost his job for this? Then he was forced to take the video down. And, there's no record of any of these things online?

    Do you understand why these statements don't improve the credibility of the claim?


    The following is a link to a video showing this. The comments are full of repeated and unsubstantiated claims that this is then used for chicken nuggets. But, there's no actual evidence to that fact.
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee6_1391310852
  • TraePalmer
    TraePalmer Posts: 16 Member
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    There really is no debate to be had. It's a totally personal choice that requires no justification.
    This. I'm a vegan, but I don't really concern myself with other people's diets.

    When people who are interested in trying a vegan diet ask me how to start, however, I usually will direct them to the following two books/eBooks:
    1/ Vegan for Life by Ginny Messina and Jack Norris
    2/ Becoming Vegan Express Edition by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina

    I advise people considering a vegan diet to read these first and then decide whether or not such a diet sounds feasible to them before they attempt to go fully vegan, as one *can* run into nutrient deficiencies without a bit of planning ahead of time. It's absolutely possible to acquire such deficiencies, but generally also avoidable with a bit of research and mindfulness about what one's eating day-to-day. Also the books are written within the context of generally accepted, science-based dietetics principles: certain variations of the vegan diet (aka 'plant-based diet') advise macronutrient ratios outside of the AMDR or those recommended by the WHO/FAO (typically, a macronutrient distribution that's extremely low in fat and protein) or promote things like a very high intake of raw foods, both of which can be very difficult for certain individuals to follow and are unnecessary for ethical vegans -- i e, those who simply wish to minimize as much as practical and possible their use of animals.
  • lngbrd
    lngbrd Posts: 279 Member
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    "He" posted a video showing male chicks being ground and then made into nuggets to be served in Mexico? he lost his job for this? Then he was forced to take the video down. And, there's no record of any of these things online?

    Do you understand why these statements don't improve the credibility of the claim?






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