Skinny Bi**h Book

_Emma_Problema_

You know, I don't think she really went about it in the right way, but the girl talking about how vegetarian diets are healthier is in fact correct. I'm a public health student at an Ivy League university and was taught this information. I sound like a total a$$hat for saying that but I feel like I need some credibility.

I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/ simply by googling. If you think a professor of public health at an Ivy is wrong, want to disagree with the NIH?

Meat consumption is linked to increased risk of cancer, heart disease, and metabolic syndrome- basically all chronic diseases.

Also there is no ethical argument to support meat consumption. Just because our bodies can do it does not make it ethical. Just because it happens in nature does not make it ethical. *TW* Rape occurs in nature among other animals, but I sincerely doubt you'll find a sane person who thinks rape is ethical.

That all being said, I'm an omnivore. I like burgers. I need more protein. I know it's not ethical and increases my risk for chronic disease but I do it anyway. I'm too lazy to do it and I like my meat foods too much.

There's nothing wrong with being an omnivore, but even if I don't want to go veg or vegan, I accept that I would be a more ethical and perhaps healthier person if I did.

From the study you linked

"In interpreting the findings from studies of meat intake and cancer, it should be noted that individuals who consume a diet high in red and processed meat typically also consume large amounts of foods such as butter, potatoes, refined grains, and high-fat dairy, all components of a westernized diet [60]. Thus red and processed meat intake might not be solely responsible for higher cancer risk. Additionally, meat intake is usually correlated with higher energy intakes [61,62] and obesity [63], so residual confounding may be present. Research aimed at understanding how foods and nutrients interact to promote or prevent carcinogenesis may provide a better understanding of potential etiological pathways and may explain some of the heterogeneity of published results."

None of the blue zone populations, which are the healthiest and longest living populations in the world, follow a strictly vegetarian or vegan diet.

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this loony bin.

Also from that article:

"Although the association of cancer and meat intake may be partially explained by high-energy or high-fat (“westernized”) diets, of greater interest is a possible direct role of potentially carcinogenic compounds that are found in meats, including N-nitroso compounds, heterocyclic amines, or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. N-nitroso compounds are broad-acting potent carcinogens in animal models [3] and include nitrosamines, which require metabolic activation to be converted to a carcinogenic form, and nitrosamides, which do not require activation. Similarly, heterocyclic amines are classified as mutagens and animal carcinogens [4–8]. These compounds and others present in meats (salts, nitrates, nitrites, heme iron, saturated fat, estradiol) have been theorized to increase DNA synthesis and cell proliferation, increase insulin-like growth factors, affect hormone metabolism, promote free radical damage, and produce carcinogenic heterocyclic amines [9–16], all of which may promote the development of cancer."

and in the conclusion

"In summary, red and processed meat intake appears to be positively associated with risk of cancer of the colon and rectum, esophagus, liver, lung, and pancreas in a new, large US cohort study of 500,000 men and women....Overall, the strongest risk factors for cancer in the US are smoking and obesity [67]. However, understanding the complex interaction of diet with smoking and obesity, and how specific foods and nutrients are metabolized, may provide further clues into the etiology and, most importantly, the prevention of cancer."

You quoted the limitations section. All studies require discussing possible limitations and confounding factors. They recognize that obesity is related to cancer risk, but their conclusion is that mean consumption contributes to that risk.

sweetpea03b

There are some good points in it.... but its basically trying to convert everybody to eating vegan.... which is completely unnecessary for weight loss, if that's all you're after.

jasonmh630

Hi Everyone!

I read the Book Skinny ***** by two models Rory and Kim.
Has anyone else read this book?
I am curious to get everyones opinon on the information in the book!
They explain in graphic detail how badly mistreated animals are and that to loose weight means you need to be healthy. Healthy= Skinny. They say to go vegetarian and always start your day off with fruits.
I like the book but should i really stop eating meat & dairy?
Opinions?

Thank You!!! : )

I'm doing just fine eating meat and cheese and heavy cream... Losing weight is about a calorie deficit, nothing else. Vegetarianism/Veganism is a moral choice and if you chose either of those based on anything else, you're doing it wrong.

giggitygoo

My take on that book:

A bunch of nonsense and tomfoolery stitched together with *****iness and snark.


Seriously. I hated that book, the tone it was written in, and all the false claims it made. Is it true that food animals are treated poorly in some cases? .... unfortunately yes. There is documented proof. If this is something that pulls at your heartstrings (it does mine), buy humanely raised and slaughtered meat. Prepare for sticker shock.

If you want to go vegan, do way more research. It's going to take a concerted effort to get the nutrition you need. It's possible, but challenging.

kristarablue2

I have no opinion on the book, however I shall say I was a vegetarian for five years (but not vegan)...and gained a TON of weight!!! I get that this was my fault, but vegetarian does not automatically equal skinny or healthy, you still have to eat well and within your calories

Sarauk2sf

Hey babe! I became vegetarian 6 years ago after watching and reading about the various cruelties that animals are subjected to...just for our tastebuds. After I gave up eating meat and eggs, I lost 25 pounds, my body felt cleaner, and I felt better about myself knowing that I do not support the slaughter of those poor animals. Many people believe that animals are treated well at these "family farms", but it's a sad misconception, if you don't take my word, I suggest you watch the documentary "Meet Your Meat" on YouTube. I know it's really hard to watch, but it's essential, ignorance is not always bliss! It's awesome that you are even considering becoming vegetarian, and I hope you'll make the best choice for your health and the animals.

I'm amazed you seem to care so much about the ethical treatment of animals but seem to care so little about the ethical treatment of the human being you are advising here - the OP.

If you want to make the argument that vegetarianism is a good thing to do on an ethical basis then cool beans.

However trying to effectively scaremonger the OP into doing it when it may not be appropriate for her physiologically but especially psychologically given her previous eating history is not on.

I'm sure you mean well but being able to advise people properly means putting your personal beliefs and biases to one side and assessing the person before you critically to find the correct solutions to their issues depending on their situation.

Thank you for putting this far more eloquently than I was doing last night. My irritation caused an articulation malfunction I think.

veg56kg

Although I am vegetarian (aspiring to be vegan) I don't think its necessary for weight loss. If you are going to do it for the animals thats great and I definitely encourage it

msf74

You know, I don't think she really went about it in the right way, but the girl talking about how vegetarian diets are healthier is in fact correct.

Which may very well be true (leaving aside confounding factors such as meat eaters are more likely to be smokers and partake in less exercise than vegetarians which then leads us to the question of whether it is the diet or the lifestyle or a mixture of both?"

However, the issue at the heart of this thread isn't "Is vegetarianism the healthiest human diet?" which does a disservice to the OP.

It is "Should vegetarianism be pushed as the right diet for the OP based on her history of disordered eating and the fact she is asking if she should blindly restrict her current consumption of meat and diary product based on the advice of two models in some book?"

I don't think it should. The"right" diet is one that secures good health outcomes for the OP, both physically and mentally, based on her individual attributes.

msf74

Hey babe! I became vegetarian 6 years ago after watching and reading about the various cruelties that animals are subjected to...just for our tastebuds. After I gave up eating meat and eggs, I lost 25 pounds, my body felt cleaner, and I felt better about myself knowing that I do not support the slaughter of those poor animals. Many people believe that animals are treated well at these "family farms", but it's a sad misconception, if you don't take my word, I suggest you watch the documentary "Meet Your Meat" on YouTube. I know it's really hard to watch, but it's essential, ignorance is not always bliss! It's awesome that you are even considering becoming vegetarian, and I hope you'll make the best choice for your health and the animals.

I'm amazed you seem to care so much about the ethical treatment of animals but seem to care so little about the ethical treatment of the human being you are advising here - the OP.

If you want to make the argument that vegetarianism is a good thing to do on an ethical basis then cool beans.

However trying to effectively scaremonger the OP into doing it when it may not be appropriate for her physiologically but especially psychologically given her previous eating history is not on.

I'm sure you mean well but being able to advise people properly means putting your personal beliefs and biases to one side and assessing the person before you critically to find the correct solutions to their issues depending on their situation.

Thank you for putting this far more eloquently than I was doing last night. My irritation caused an articulation malfunction I think.

I can understand your irritation.

I think you had the interests of the OP as the foremost concern in your advice above your own preferences and that must be the correct approach.

PikaKnight

*TW* Rape occurs in nature among other animals, but I sincerely doubt you'll find a sane person who thinks rape is ethical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Seriously? You're touting Ivy league? pfffft. Back to the studies for you.

Total meat consumption was not significantly associated with colorectal cancer risk.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.10126/full

That's from the IJC, There are more, this was just the first I found. What you're missing is that your statement is wholly predicated on OVER consumption (which brings in other confounding variables) where you are assuming that research shows ANY consumption is an indicator of increased risk. That's simply not supported by the articles I've read.

Go forth and pubmed.

Can't watch youtube at work. But I'm assuming you didn't really have anything interesting to say and were just mocking me.

As I said, I'm not touting. I did say that it makes me sound like a jacka$$ to talk about it. But I was using my professor as the source, not me. I haven't done any research on meat consumption and cancer.

I just did.

And note "meat consumption" not "eating meat at all"

Also a quote from the study I linked. "In recent meta-analyses of colorectal cancer that included studies published up to 2005 summary associations indicated that red meat intakes were associated with 28%–35% increased risks while processed meats were associated with elevated risks of 20%–49%."

Enjoy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.cul.columbia.edu/pubmed/24842864

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.cul.columbia.edu/pubmed/24847855

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.cul.columbia.edu/pubmed/23563998

And while obesity may be a confounding factor when looking at general population studies, it's been found to be associated regardless of BMI.

Can't access any of those links so no idea what the studies are about.

ETA: I don't know what it is with ALL your links. I either need a password to access or they come back as a bad gateway. I wonder if the internet is just saying "don't even bother. Not worth it." :laugh:

jofjltncb6

ETA: I don't know what it is with ALL your links. I either need a password to access or they come back as a bad gateway. I wonder if the internet is just saying "don't even bother. Not worth it." :laugh:

Because you aren't a student at columbia.edu?

EvgeniZyntx

You know, I don't think she really went about it in the right way, but the girl talking about how vegetarian diets are healthier is in fact correct. I'm a public health student at an Ivy League university and was taught this information. I sound like a total a$$hat for saying that but I feel like I need some credibility.

I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/ simply by googling. If you think a professor of public health at an Ivy is wrong, want to disagree with the NIH?

Meat consumption is linked to increased risk of cancer, heart disease, and metabolic syndrome- basically all chronic diseases.

Also there is no ethical argument to support meat consumption. Just because our bodies can do it does not make it ethical. Just because it happens in nature does not make it ethical. *TW* Rape occurs in nature among other animals, but I sincerely doubt you'll find a sane person who thinks rape is ethical.

That all being said, I'm an omnivore. I like burgers. I need more protein. I know it's not ethical and increases my risk for chronic disease but I do it anyway. I'm too lazy to do it and I like my meat foods too much.

There's nothing wrong with being an omnivore, but even if I don't want to go veg or vegan, I accept that I would be a more ethical and perhaps healthier person if I did.

Please read what you quote.
The article notes a) higheri risks with processed meats, less so with red mean, even less with lean meats b) significant potential for confounding correlation due to higher energy intake of red meat eaters (research elsewhere correlates energy intake to similar cancer rates highlighting this causality) c) relative increases in cancer risk of 13-30% do not provide information on longevity or end of life quality of life. (Those studies that have looked at that show no significant increase in life expectancy among vegetarians) d) obesity, genetic and environmental factors are greater influences in cancer risk than diet. (Focus on those first.)

And as a student of an Ivy League school someone should have done their job and taught you the fallacy of appealing to authority.
My argument isn't more valid because I have degrees from schools that have better public health programs than "Ivy" schools - any argument should stand on the merit of research. NIH does regularly support crap work. It's the reading audience roll to criticize that.
You'll be a better student when you doubt and question the extent of the knowledge of your professors.

There are several ethical arguments that support meat consumption (these are not mine) - one may argue on biblical primacy - a type of manifest destiny not dissimilar to what was argued to justify land ownership, expansionism - there is also an argument genetic primacy which can be reduced to the idea that we would not have achieved our culture or advances without the easy availability and population growths engendered by having easy protein sources. I do not make these arguments but show them (valid or not, but certainly historical) as to address your statement that "there are no ethical arguments supporting meat eating" as an Ivy League student you should be more circumspect and attempt to make less overarching statements.

:flowerforyou:

silentKayak

That book was truly horrible. One book you might enjoy (if you're thinking about what to eat based on its source) is The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan. He has a lot to say about slow food, natural foods, and ethnically/sustainably raised foods.

live2dream

It's your decision. Not anyone else's. I went vegan because it made sense to me ethically, morally and health-wise. After 3 years, I feel better than ever, have more energy, enjoy food more, and feel like I'm being the change I wish to see in the world- (non-violence, compassion, peace).

Read more books about the subject and check out vegankit.com which is a great resource. Best of luck! :flowerforyou:

elispeli

Well this thread has been an interesting read. :noway:


I've never read that book, mostly because my friends thought it was pushing what they call the "thin agenda"
I don't know about all of that.

But I can tell you that cutting meat out of my diet changed the way I view the world. It changed how I eat, take care of my body, and work in the kitchen. It's fantastic and I will never, ever go back. I've been phasing out dairy for four years now. I only eat it once a week and I feel like a golden flower blowing in the winds of the garden of Eden...or something. Once I get rid of it completely I'll be healthier than ever. It's amazing.

IMHO It's the best decision you can make. Everyone who tells you otherwise will probably have never tried it or "tried it for two weeks and didn't like it".

Cheers, friend. Do what feels right to you.

Mikkimeow

NO

Sarauk2sf

Well this thread has been an interesting read. :noway:


I've never read that book, mostly because my friends thought it was pushing what they call the "thin agenda"
I don't know about all of that.

But I can tell you that cutting meat out of my diet changed the way I view the world. It changed how I eat, take care of my body, and work in the kitchen. It's fantastic and I will never, ever go back. I've been phasing out dairy for four years now. I only eat it once a week and I feel like a golden flower blowing in the winds of the garden of Eden...or something. Once I get rid of it completely I'll be healthier than ever. It's amazing.

IMHO It's the best decision you can make. Everyone who tells you otherwise will probably have never tried it or "tried it for two weeks and didn't like it".

Cheers, friend. Do what feels right to you.

I would tell her otherwise (for reasons that should be made clear if you read the thread)...and I have not eaten meat for a LOT longer than you have.

RedArizona5

I haven't read it, nor will I, but I can't help feeling that a random pair of ex-models aren't going to be the best source for health advice.

This. EXACTLY THIS.

ChildrenCryinNCoffee

LMFAO!! ^^^^ This!

SomeNights246

Just by the fact that the title is something that is usually used as a way to insult me for having a certain body type, I wouldn't give it a second glance.

The way you described it pretty much confirmed my judgment. :drinker:

fitness_faeiry

I haven't read it, nor will I, but I can't help feeling that a random pair of ex-models aren't going to be the best source for health advice.

This. EXACTLY THIS.

Ditto. Have you actually seen or heard that woman who wrote it? Rory whassherface. Complete. Fruitloop.