Be Smart... don't fall for Fads and scams :)
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"Clean eating" is not a buzzword, it's a fad and a scam, and your post is about avoiding scams.wow...just wow...
OP you don't get it do you...wondering if I should try one more time....hmm sure I am a sucker for punishment
Clean eating is a fad and until you say something a long the lines of this
"you guys I stand corrected, I should not have used the phrase "clean eating" as a thing to do to lose weight while my post was about scams and fads to avoid that are all over the weight loss industry because "clean eating" is the new "buzz word" fad weight loss gimmick.
What I did was create an oxymoron of a post with that phrase and if I could go back and edit it with" nutrient dense" or "follow the 80/20 rule" I would but now I can't because I was too busy debating that I was right to use that word and calling you all naysayers and laughing at you and dropping the bully bomb, my bad"
*isn't gonna hold my breath for this but at least I tried.
:noway: hmm... maybe you should go read a couple posts above where I DID talk about the buzzwords and said I didn't realize it was one and now I do so I will be more careful with it. Reading helps :ohwell:
you mean thisWe will have to agree to disagree on the bullying. I don't care about it hence why I haven't left yet, but some of the snobbish attacks were unwarranted. Someone could easily say that the term is confusing to many and gave their explanation and that would be that. I understand now that it is a sensitive word. I will be more careful with it in the future... but the way some people handled it was ridiculous.
<snip>
Yes I read that part and that was the part that made me post what I did...being disagreed with repeated by the majority <> bullying and you wouldn't have been disagreed with if 6 pages ago you would have just "GOT IT" because you didn't "READ" what we were saying.
YOu were so intent on being right you missed the forest for the trees and now unfortuanately because you took 6 pages to acknowledge that it is a FAD instead of doing research prior to posting it period...most of what you will post in the future will be scoffed at by those here who saw this and see what you are about.
And even now you are putting the blame on "us" saying we are bullies, naysayers etc...
So take this for what it's worth after you have read it a couple times...don't be careful with the words "clean eating" just don't use them they are a fad and a scam...kk :flowerforyou:
:noway: That was not the post I was referring to... it was before that. But thank you for the lecture. :drinker:
And again... this is a message board and I take it as such. I am NOT worried about being "Scoffed at by those who saw this and see what you are about" I have legitimate tips and advice regarding fitness and health. I have made other comments on other posts and have had no negativity yet (Though I'm sure some of you are jumping at the chance :laugh: ). As I stated in a previous post. I had NO IDEA that "clean" was a buzzword. I have never heard that before until I came on here. I also stated above that I won't use it and be more careful which terms I use to make a point (even if that was NOT the point in the first place).
Nobody has been bullying you.0 -
Legit question here. What exactly makes a person healthy? Perfect results coming back from blood work? The ability to run a mile in 7 minutes? Not having an eating disorder? Please explain...So I look forward to speaking with some of you about living a healthy lifestyle.
If you're going to post advice on living a "healthy lifestyle" then please inform the readers on what exactly a healthy lifestyle is.0 -
I skimmed and skipped....and I have a headache now. Thanks!0
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Yep, I agree with the message as well until the "clean" came out. You can't claim to not fall for fads and then say you must eat "clean" (which is just another fad term).
and how is "paleo", "low-carb", etc.. not "fad" terms? Most ppl on here are on a "fad"- like diet.0 -
:noway: That was not the post I was referring to... it was before that. But thank you for the lecture. :drinker:
And again... this is a message board and I take it as such. I am NOT worried about being "Scoffed at by those who saw this and see what you are about" I have legitimate tips and advice regarding fitness and health. I have made other comments on other posts and have had no negativity yet (Though I'm sure some of you are jumping at the chance :laugh: ). As I stated in a previous post. I had NO IDEA that "clean" was a buzzword. I have never heard that before until I came on here. I also stated above that I won't use it and be more careful which terms I use to make a point (even if that was NOT the point in the first place).
Your welcome, I typically pull out my mom voice when running into people who are acting like teenagers who have read the book of all...can't help it I have one at home.
As for your others posts do you mean on your "other" profile because on this profile you have 2 posts...this one you started and one you commented on about how people lose weight differently in which you didn't spout nonsense.That is the point I was trying to make. It is a simple word that SOME people use to generally mean healthy food. The word "healthy" can ALSO have multiple meanings since healthy means different things to different people. It's just a simple word to use to describe natural foods. It does NOT mean that all unnatural foods are dirty or unhealthy. Thank you for reading the post the way it was meant and not reading into something I never intended to. Unfortunately, reading things on the internet can easily be misconstrued and for that I do not blame others for disagreeing with that term. I do however disagree with those who got rude about it though to try and make a point... when we were pretty much saying the same thing. Once I explained that I did not mean it as a 100% thing, I would have thought they would back off. Persistence is key I guess. Thanks for your reply!
As for this...then that's the point you should have made...I read the words and take them for their meaning in context. We can't read minds and know what you "intended" we can only go by what is typed out and that doesn't mean it was misconstrued...
because even now you are spouting about "eating clean" even if it's 80% of the time which is well...what you just aren't getting.
There is no clean or dirty, no natural or unnatural food...it's all fuel and can be used for various things. Pizza is a good fuel, lean chicken breast is good fuel, heck a donut is good fuel and the fiber1 peanut butter brownie I am about to eat is good fuel...
So since persistence is key get this...clean eating and exercise is not the key to weight loss, eating in a calorie deficit is, eating nutrient dense foods and exercise is for health and you can still be fat eating "clean" and "exercising" if you are not in a calorie deficit
Well... sorry but I am going to completely disagree with you. I agree that I should have been more cautious with the chosen word and described myself better. So in that aspect you are right. But if you honestly tell me that health and losing weight is ONLY about being in a calorie deficit and you basically stated that ALL calories are created equal then I COMPLETELY utterly disagree. That is like telling people they can eat 2 donuts a day but since they are under their calorie amount they will lose weight. :noway: Anorexics lose weight because they obviously are in a calorie deficit. Does that make them healthy? Healthy does NOT always mean being in a calorie deficit. And YES a calorie is a calorie and to lose weight one must burn 3500. I get it. But some calories are "empty" and pose no nutritional value to help the cells in your body burn fat, metabolize food, and maintain muscle. Do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza is as healthy as a chicken breast? Is pizza a demon? NO... and people should be able to ENJOY pizza. But if your sake of argument is that to be healthy and lose weight, a person only has to eat less calories... then you are way off base.
Yes, a person can eat two donuts a day, be healthy, and lose weight if they are in a calorie deficit. Some people can even do it while also hitting their RDA for micronutrients and manage to hit all their macros. It all depends on your TDEE.
ETA: Take a look at the diet of Olympic athletes. Michael Phelps had an extremely high calorie requirement, openly admitted to eating fast food regularly, and he won how many medals? Are we going to call him unhealthy?0 -
"Overall a good message and this site frequently promotes the same views, but the highlighted portion is wrong. You don' t have to eat clean to be fit or healthy. "
hmm.... you got me curious psulemon, How do you figure that you don't have to eat clean to be fit and healthy? I am genuinely curious. I'm not saying it has to be all the time, but eating processed, "fake" foods if you will does not fuel the body the way natural foods do. While some people can eat Mac n Cheese, candy, chips, and processed meats... that doesn't mean they are healthy even if the appear it on the outside. Clean eating in my opinion is very important, however so is exercise, sleep, hydration, and having indulgences now and then (For body and mind haha).
Wow, THIS!!!
FIT does not equal skinny,
FIT = HEALTHY0 -
Yep, I agree with the message as well until the "clean" came out. You can't claim to not fall for fads and then say you must eat "clean" (which is just another fad term).
and how is "paleo", "low-carb", etc.. not "fad" terms? Most ppl on here are on a "fad"- like diet.
No one said it wasn't. .. add that to the lump!
-I eat food. Foods to meet my nutrient needs. I'm not even sure what clean is. If that'd a fad diet, well damn! I'll take that Talenti pint to go!0 -
Well... sorry but I am going to completely disagree with you. I agree that I should have been more cautious with the chosen word and described myself better. So in that aspect you are right. But if you honestly tell me that health and losing weight is ONLY about being in a calorie deficit and you basically stated that ALL calories are created equal then I COMPLETELY utterly disagree. That is like telling people they can eat 2 donuts a day but since they are under their calorie amount they will lose weight. :noway: Anorexics lose weight because they obviously are in a calorie deficit. Does that make them healthy? Healthy does NOT always mean being in a calorie deficit. And YES a calorie is a calorie and to lose weight one must burn 3500. I get it. But some calories are "empty" and pose no nutritional value to help the cells in your body burn fat, metabolize food, and maintain muscle. Do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza is as healthy as a chicken breast? Is pizza a demon? NO... and people should be able to ENJOY pizza. But if your sake of argument is that to be healthy and lose weight, a person only has to eat less calories... then you are way off base.
er....0 -
"Overall a good message and this site frequently promotes the same views, but the highlighted portion is wrong. You don' t have to eat clean to be fit or healthy. "
hmm.... you got me curious psulemon, How do you figure that you don't have to eat clean to be fit and healthy? I am genuinely curious. I'm not saying it has to be all the time, but eating processed, "fake" foods if you will does not fuel the body the way natural foods do. While some people can eat Mac n Cheese, candy, chips, and processed meats... that doesn't mean they are healthy even if the appear it on the outside. Clean eating in my opinion is very important, however so is exercise, sleep, hydration, and having indulgences now and then (For body and mind haha).
Wow, THIS!!!
FIT does not equal skinny,
FIT = HEALTHY
No one is suggesting you fill your entire day with foods with low nutrient density. It's the labeling of foods that is in question.
Foods are food. How you fit those foods into a whole diet is what determines if it is healthy for you or not.
I don't demonize any foods. I meet my bodies nutrient requirement and once those needs are met, I don't get bonus points for eating more than what my body requires.
You bet your bum I eat pizza, ice cream, fast food on occasion. And i dont see how that makes me any less fit or healthy than someone who decides that they have to restrict and label foods and abstain from "dirty"food.0 -
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^^^^ Kale Candy Bars PEOPLE! Lets argue about that too!
This is almost fun.
Clearly... I have NO Idea what I'm talking about. My body must show for it along with my clients.
Anyone that wants to have an adult debate with me can send me a message and I will start to be serious about this and give my insights and actually listen to yours. Right now all I hear is blah blah blah since so many of you are arguing and knit picking every little thing.
Ohhh I get it... YOU all are the experts... OOPS My bad lol. :::eye roll:::
Kale Candy Kale Candy!
<hate that I have to stoop this low, but I think its the only way some of you can understand>
Actually, you sound like you're coming unhinged to be honest.0 -
Legit question here. What exactly makes a person healthy? Perfect results coming back from blood work? The ability to run a mile in 7 minutes? Not having an eating disorder? Please explain...So I look forward to speaking with some of you about living a healthy lifestyle.
If you're going to post advice on living a "healthy lifestyle" then please inform the readers on what exactly a healthy lifestyle is.
This is actually a good question. You quoted me saying "I look forward to speaking with some of you about living a healthy lifestyle"
Here is my take on that...
Living a healthy lifestyle to me means a person who has goals to better their health (hence why I enjoy discussions about it with various people). Maybe they already are healthy in their mind. This can be true because the word healthy means different things to different people. This is why I said lifestyle rather than just healthy.
I personally aim to live a healthy lifestyle by trying to:
* Eat wholesome, healthy, (heavenforbid I say clean), less processed foods that mostly are natural and/or grown. These foods leave me feeling good and more energetic than when I eat greasy fried foods. That is me personally so no attacks needed from the peanut gallery. (I'm sure some of you are already typing a response telling me that fried greasy food can be healthy and is fine etc etc)
*Exercise! I LOVE the way exercise makes me feel. I don't believe one has to run a 7 minute mile to be considered healthy since again... there are various meanings of the word. But I personally try to incorporate many aspects of fitness into my routines (Examples: LISS, HIIT, STeady State, Cardio/endurance, Circuit training, weight/resistance training, flexibility, functional training, balance, and core.
- Point here is that is what I do to feel healthy and good. However, others may feel awesome just going for a walk 3 days a week. It might not seem like much but they are trying to get healthier by making small steps- thus... trying to live a healthy lifestyle.
* Sleep and Hydration- Water intake is important for cellular function and I personally feel fatigued without enough. Same goes for SLEEP- I love sleep and need it for energy. I believe both are important in healthy lifestyles... even though many people don't get the recommended hours/water... they are aware and want to better it if possible.
*Indulgences- Perfectly acceptable. I have found that those with too strict of diets usually binge later. Plus good food tastes great and feels good for the soul. Moderation is key in my opinion, but people shouldn't be afraid to indulge, but one reason we have an obesity problem is over indulgence and lack of proper nutrition and physical activity.
That is just to name a few. Great question, I enjoyed answering. :drinker:
Ps. That was my opinion so please no need for some of you to go and debate every thing I stated as being wrong and debatable. She asked what is Healthy and I explained what I do to enjoy a healthy LIFESTYLE.0 -
Legit question here. What exactly makes a person healthy? Perfect results coming back from blood work? The ability to run a mile in 7 minutes? Not having an eating disorder? Please explain...So I look forward to speaking with some of you about living a healthy lifestyle.
If you're going to post advice on living a "healthy lifestyle" then please inform the readers on what exactly a healthy lifestyle is.
This is actually a good question. You quoted me saying "I look forward to speaking with some of you about living a healthy lifestyle"
Here is my take on that...
Living a healthy lifestyle to me means a person who has goals to better their health (hence why I enjoy discussions about it with various people). Maybe they already are healthy in their mind. This can be true because the word healthy means different things to different people. This is why I said lifestyle rather than just healthy.
I personally aim to live a healthy lifestyle by trying to:
* Eat wholesome, healthy, (heavenforbid I say clean), less processed foods that mostly are natural and/or grown. These foods leave me feeling good and more energetic than when I eat greasy fried foods. That is me personally so no attacks needed from the peanut gallery. (I'm sure some of you are already typing a response telling me that fried greasy food can be healthy and is fine etc etc)
*Exercise! I LOVE the way exercise makes me feel. I don't believe one has to run a 7 minute mile to be considered healthy since again... there are various meanings of the word. But I personally try to incorporate many aspects of fitness into my routines (Examples: LISS, HIIT, STeady State, Cardio/endurance, Circuit training, weight/resistance training, flexibility, functional training, balance, and core.
- Point here is that is what I do to feel healthy and good. However, others may feel awesome just going for a walk 3 days a week. It might not seem like much but they are trying to get healthier by making small steps- thus... trying to live a healthy lifestyle.
* Sleep and Hydration- Water intake is important for cellular function and I personally feel fatigued without enough. Same goes for SLEEP- I love sleep and need it for energy. I believe both are important in healthy lifestyles... even though many people don't get the recommended hours/water... they are aware and want to better it if possible.
*Indulgences- Perfectly acceptable. I have found that those with too strict of diets usually binge later. Plus good food tastes great and feels good for the soul. Moderation is key in my opinion, but people shouldn't be afraid to indulge, but one reason we have an obesity problem is over indulgence and lack of proper nutrition and physical activity.
That is just to name a few. Great question, I enjoyed answering. :drinker:
Ps. That was my opinion so please no need for some of you to go and debate every thing I stated as being wrong and debatable. She asked what is Healthy and I explained what I do to enjoy a healthy LIFESTYLE.
I'm not trying to debate you. I'm just trying to understand your thought process.
BUT if I did eat two donuts every single morning for breakfast, and random food the rest of the day to hit my macros/micros, why does that make me any less "healthy" than you? Especially if I am able to kick *kitten* at the gym, reproduce, and not feel like I am restricting myself.0 -
Yep, I agree with the message as well until the "clean" came out. You can't claim to not fall for fads and then say you must eat "clean" (which is just another fad term).
and how is "paleo", "low-carb", etc.. not "fad" terms? Most ppl on here are on a "fad"- like diet.
They are fad terms; however, the idea behind what paleo *is* or what low-carb *is* (at their basest level) is more clearly defined than clean usually.
Now, before someone says something to be about my "generalization" above: There are a lot of people who want to try paleo and get different information based on what that actually means depending on the various modifications (for example, some people say absolutely no dairy and others say full fat dairy is fine if you don't have an intolerance for it). I will concede that. But when someone thinks of paleo, generally speaking they understand that it means more meat (and full fat meats too), local plants, tree nuts and seeds and to exclude grain, legumes and tubers.
For low-carb, that one's pretty self explanatory regardless of whether or not the carb goal is 50g, 100g, 150g - or where total and net carbs come into play, etc. There are variations to what a low-carb diet actually IS so far as the goal behind it, but a low carb diet is generally understood to mean meats, leafy vegetables, low GI fruits, nuts, seeds and lowered or excluded bleached grains (i.e. white bread, pastas, etc), most tubers, sugars.
However, with a term like "clean" it actually means different things to different people. Some people think dairy isn't clean. Some feel that sugar isn't clean. Some people think bleached flour based baked goods like white bread aren't clean. Some people may even feel that certain kinds of lean meats aren't clean. Others may feel that clean is a synonym to kosher (which it could be, but it isn't necessarily) or that clean is a synonym to a 'diabetic diet' so only low GI foods are considered 'clean' to them. Many others feel that clean means that the food must come only from natural ingredients but doesn't necessarily exclude a food group.
The term 'clean' is far too fluid, and without an established definition of it there will always be a debate in regards to what it means, and will probably continue getting people in a tizzy about it.
(OP, I know this wasn't the intent of your post but at least we can get some of this stuff aired out a bit)0 -
Let me preface this post by saying that I'm primarily a lurker, and always swore that I'd remain as such. But you, OP, are that ever so persistent internet creature that I cannot resist: the "expert". In my travels (professional and non), I've met many like you. The "fitness experts", the personal trainers, the "enthusiasts" with their anecdotal "evidence" that means less than zero...I could go on. Hard science matters, not personal experience.
I'll boil down the dissonance for you:
"Clean eating" doesn't inherently mean anything. It's a marketing term at best and worst. However, the individual can assign whatever definition they please. Many people do it for various reasons: to feel superior, to sound important and/or "educated" amongst their peers, and so forth. "Clean eating" can mean eating only organic foods, eating only GMO-free foods (not attempting to start a discussion on that, so let's not go there), eating no animal products, eating no processed foods, and so forth.
This is where the problem lies. You are using extremely broad terms to define what can only be determined by the individual. Perhaps in your professional community this is a common term. Fine. But when you are joining another community (even where there might be professional individuals similar to yourself) you CANNOT use the same broad terms and expect others to explicitly understand what you mean. This is the internet, where discussions are simply blocks of text and emoji. There is no nuance such as tone of voice, facial expression, etc. People cannot know your thought processes, even if they've had the same exact training and professional experience as you. This is where writing in a fashion that is clear, concise and appropriate to the group you're speaking to becomes essential. I would imagine what you meant by "clean eating" was eating foods that contain essential nutrients (if applicable to the individual): produce, lean meat/proteins, whole grains, dairy, etc. I think most rational people can agree on that point.
BUT.
Again, even if that's what you meant...it's not what was SAID. That's where everything went sideways. If you had seen that the initial problem was just a lack of written clarity, this would not have spiraled out of control the way it did.
Your next mistake was resorting to ad hominem, claims of "bullying", people "being sensitive"/"negative" and mocking people using emoji and generally being petulant. I recognize that these things happen to the best of us and come from places where we feel frustrated and attacked. That being said, we're all adults here. Disagreements happen, and they aren't personal. Someone disagreeing with what verbiage you choose isn't about your character as a person. It makes your argument appear illogical and you a person who isn't to be taken seriously.
The "debate" about pizza being better/worse than chicken is silly, and I think you know that. Chicken can be made "unhealthy" and pizza can be made "healthy" (in quotation marks purposely). No one is saying that one is inherently better than the other, as food dichotomies do everyone a disservice. The nonsense about 800 calories of donuts and candy bars made of kale is unnecessary, and you're attempting to have a laugh while being incredibly condescending to people who are attempting to discuss this topic with you. This tack is also not one that lends credence to your words. I think you initially meant well, weren't as clear as you should be (which is a forgivable mistake), things deteriorated rapidly and now here we are.
Start over. Be clear and type precisely what you mean. It'll help you avoid stuff like this from happening in the future.
That said, I'm going back to lurking.
Good luck.0 -
:noway: That was not the post I was referring to... it was before that. But thank you for the lecture. :drinker:
And again... this is a message board and I take it as such. I am NOT worried about being "Scoffed at by those who saw this and see what you are about" I have legitimate tips and advice regarding fitness and health. I have made other comments on other posts and have had no negativity yet (Though I'm sure some of you are jumping at the chance :laugh: ). As I stated in a previous post. I had NO IDEA that "clean" was a buzzword. I have never heard that before until I came on here. I also stated above that I won't use it and be more careful which terms I use to make a point (even if that was NOT the point in the first place).
Your welcome, I typically pull out my mom voice when running into people who are acting like teenagers who have read the book of all...can't help it I have one at home.
As for your others posts do you mean on your "other" profile because on this profile you have 2 posts...this one you started and one you commented on about how people lose weight differently in which you didn't spout nonsense.That is the point I was trying to make. It is a simple word that SOME people use to generally mean healthy food. The word "healthy" can ALSO have multiple meanings since healthy means different things to different people. It's just a simple word to use to describe natural foods. It does NOT mean that all unnatural foods are dirty or unhealthy. Thank you for reading the post the way it was meant and not reading into something I never intended to. Unfortunately, reading things on the internet can easily be misconstrued and for that I do not blame others for disagreeing with that term. I do however disagree with those who got rude about it though to try and make a point... when we were pretty much saying the same thing. Once I explained that I did not mean it as a 100% thing, I would have thought they would back off. Persistence is key I guess. Thanks for your reply!
As for this...then that's the point you should have made...I read the words and take them for their meaning in context. We can't read minds and know what you "intended" we can only go by what is typed out and that doesn't mean it was misconstrued...
because even now you are spouting about "eating clean" even if it's 80% of the time which is well...what you just aren't getting.
There is no clean or dirty, no natural or unnatural food...it's all fuel and can be used for various things. Pizza is a good fuel, lean chicken breast is good fuel, heck a donut is good fuel and the fiber1 peanut butter brownie I am about to eat is good fuel...
So since persistence is key get this...clean eating and exercise is not the key to weight loss, eating in a calorie deficit is, eating nutrient dense foods and exercise is for health and you can still be fat eating "clean" and "exercising" if you are not in a calorie deficit
Well... sorry but I am going to completely disagree with you. I agree that I should have been more cautious with the chosen word and described myself better. So in that aspect you are right. But if you honestly tell me that health and losing weight is ONLY about being in a calorie deficit and you basically stated that ALL calories are created equal then I COMPLETELY utterly disagree. That is like telling people they can eat 2 donuts a day but since they are under their calorie amount they will lose weight. :noway: Anorexics lose weight because they obviously are in a calorie deficit. Does that make them healthy? Healthy does NOT always mean being in a calorie deficit. And YES a calorie is a calorie and to lose weight one must burn 3500. I get it. But some calories are "empty" and pose no nutritional value to help the cells in your body burn fat, metabolize food, and maintain muscle. Do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza is as healthy as a chicken breast? Is pizza a demon? NO... and people should be able to ENJOY pizza. But if your sake of argument is that to be healthy and lose weight, a person only has to eat less calories... then you are way off base.
Yes, a person can eat two donuts a day, be healthy, and lose weight if they are in a calorie deficit. Some people can even do it while also hitting their RDA for micronutrients and manage to hit all their macros. It all depends on your TDEE.
ETA: Take a look at the diet of Olympic athletes. Michael Phelps had an extremely high calorie requirement, openly admitted to eating fast food regularly, and he won how many medals? Are we going to call him unhealthy?
:noway: When I said about the eating two donuts a day... I was saying ONLY 2 donuts a day... So even though they are under their calorie allotment, they aren't getting their other nutrients so it is not considered healthy. If someone is getting there nutrients and under calories, then it would be different. Not everything is just about calories (Yes I know that to burn 1 lb of fat you need to burn 3500 calories) , there are also fats, carbs, sodium, protein etc that can change the shape of your body. It isn't all just about calories in vs. calories out if you care about overall health rather than just weight loss. For example: Muscle needs protein to rebuild and strengthen. 2 Donuts alone per day might equal say 1000 calories (just picking a number here) so while you may lose "weight" since you are under calories, you are still putting fatty foods in your body which affects glycogen, blood sugar, insulin,etc which all in turn can be stored as fat rather than energy. Its not so simple as just monitoring calories. I wouldn't want people to focus just on getting skinny or losing weight, but rather learning about portions, healthy whole foods, exercise, strength training etc.. Let's focus on feeling GOOD! :happy:0 -
":noway: When I said about the eating two donuts a day... I was saying ONLY 2 donuts a day... So even though they are under their calorie allotment, they aren't getting their other nutrients so it is not considered healthy. If someone is getting there nutrients and under calories, then it would be different. Not everything is just about calories (Yes I know that to burn 1 lb of fat you need to burn 3500 calories) , there are also fats, carbs, sodium, protein etc that can change the shape of your body. It isn't all just about calories in vs. calories out if you care about overall health rather than just weight loss. For example: Muscle needs protein to rebuild and strengthen. 2 Donuts alone per day might equal say 1000 calories (just picking a number here) so while you may lose "weight" since you are under calories, you are still putting fatty foods in your body which affects glycogen, blood sugar, insulin,etc which all in turn can be stored as fat rather than energy. Its not so simple as just monitoring calories. I wouldn't want people to focus just on getting skinny or losing weight, but rather learning about portions, healthy whole foods, exercise, strength training etc.. Let's focus on feeling GOOD! :happy:"
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I do agree with what you are saying here. Right now for me though I am focusing on my CICO. I know this isn't the healthiest but it is what I am doing for now (I still fail some days). My plan as of now is to wait until I get to my goal weight or close and then worry about the nutrition. I know this probably isn't the best method and is only the one I'm using right now. Tomorrow I could change my mind. Most days I seem to meet "most" of my macro's but I need to clean that up a bit and quite a bit on some days. Right now I think just focusing on my calories will make me healthier. Not healthy but healthier. This drives my husband crazy because he wants me to focus on all the nutrients while he does not. LOL0 -
I feel like this could have gone in a completely different way, had OP not used the word clean.
Moderation. Now, that's something I can get behind.0 -
I feel like this could have gone in a completely different way, had OP not used the word clean.
Moderation. Now, that's something I can get behind.
For me it would have went differently if the OP didn't constantly equate healthy to clean in her prior posts and implying that anything that isn't clean is unhealthy or even just not healthy. I happen to think that someone could eat 100% unclean and still be just as healthy if they ate 100% clean.0 -
Let me preface this post by saying that I'm primarily a lurker, and always swore that I'd remain as such. But you, OP, are that ever so persistent internet creature that I cannot resist: the "expert". In my travels (professional and non), I've met many like you. The "fitness experts", the personal trainers, the "enthusiasts" with their anecdotal "evidence" that means less than zero...I could go on. Hard science matters, not personal experience.
I'll boil down the dissonance for you:
"Clean eating" doesn't inherently mean anything. It's a marketing term at best and worst. However, the individual can assign whatever definition they please. Many people do it for various reasons: to feel superior, to sound important and/or "educated" amongst their peers, and so forth. "Clean eating" can mean eating only organic foods, eating only GMO-free foods (not attempting to start a discussion on that, so let's not go there), eating no animal products, eating no processed foods, and so forth.
This is where the problem lies. You are using extremely broad terms to define what can only be determined by the individual. Perhaps in your professional community this is a common term. Fine. But when you are joining another community (even where there might be professional individuals similar to yourself) you CANNOT use the same broad terms and expect others to explicitly understand what you mean. This is the internet, where discussions are simply blocks of text and emoji. There is no nuance such as tone of voice, facial expression, etc. People cannot know your thought processes, even if they've had the same exact training and professional experience as you. This is where writing in a fashion that is clear, concise and appropriate to the group you're speaking to becomes essential. I would imagine what you meant by "clean eating" was eating foods that contain essential nutrients (if applicable to the individual): produce, lean meat/proteins, whole grains, dairy, etc. I think most rational people can agree on that point.
BUT.
Again, even if that's what you meant...it's not what was SAID. That's where everything went sideways. If you had seen that the initial problem was just a lack of written clarity, this would not have spiraled out of control the way it did.
Your next mistake was resorting to ad hominem, claims of "bullying", people "being sensitive"/"negative" and mocking people using emoji and generally being petulant. I recognize that these things happen to the best of us and come from places where we feel frustrated and attacked. That being said, we're all adults here. Disagreements happen, and they aren't personal. Someone disagreeing with what verbiage you choose isn't about your character as a person. It makes your argument appear illogical and you a person who isn't to be taken seriously.
The "debate" about pizza being better/worse than chicken is silly, and I think you know that. Chicken can be made "unhealthy" and pizza can be made "healthy" (in quotation marks purposely). No one is saying that one is inherently better than the other, as food dichotomies do everyone a disservice. The nonsense about 800 calories of donuts and candy bars made of kale is unnecessary, and you're attempting to have a laugh while being incredibly condescending to people who are attempting to discuss this topic with you. This tack is also not one that lends credence to your words. I think you initially meant well, weren't as clear as you should be (which is a forgivable mistake), things deteriorated rapidly and now here we are.
Start over. Be clear and type precisely what you mean. It'll help you avoid stuff like this from happening in the future.
That said, I'm going back to lurking.
Good luck.
I do appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion and actually writing out a thought out response. However... I must honestly admit that it blows my mind some of the things you say to me even after reading what others have written. My initial post was all to start conversations and give a little insight of things that I have personally been dealing with and wanted to help others. For those who already know about scams/schemes... they can easily either contribute and tell their experiences or simply keep on scrolling since it doesn't affect them.
I never ONCE said I was an expert... I said that "experts" use that term as well, which is accurate. Do I personally feel I have good knowledge on the topic? Yes! Absolutely! But that is not something I even CARE to prove on a message board. I'm simply implying that with my personal experiences, I have been successful with how I take to fitness. I never said anyone should follow or do exactly as I say lol.
Just an honest genuine question (not being rude at all) But did you read this whole post? It is really long, so I'm sure many people skip the middle pages unless they have the time. If you did read the whole post, then you would have seen a long one where I explain that I had no idea people thought of the word "Clean" to be such a buzzword, fad etc. It is a common explanation around here even though YES it is generic and not specific. (Just like the word diet, and healthy all have different meanings to different people). I also said I would not use that term on these boards since people obviously are against it. (It is just a descriptive word in my mind, but I see where they are coming from).
In terms of you saying I'm being condescending and rude. Now here is where I'm a bit bothered. If you have been reading this whole thread... I am SURE you have read all of my posts where I am well wishing everyone on their journeys, explaining my personal take on healthy and the word clean since I had no idea it was such a negative word (which Ive said numerous times is my opinion not fact), I answered questions friendly that were asked. I did get rude once for a rude comment towards me and even that wasn't near as rude as I wanted to be.
What I find ironic is that you wrote such a thought out post, yet not once mentioned anyone elses wrong doings but mine. I don't think defending my position of thought is wrong. I do appreciate that you showed understanding in that when someone feels ganged up on they tend to defend themselves. Luckily for me, I'm a happy, bubbly person who rarely gets angry... so this post has not done that. But you are right in that I was defending my proposition.
You also mention the pizza and chicken debate as silly. I couldn't agree more! Several people went against me saying that "Well pizza can be made healthy" yada yada. I know this, I'm not stupid. (cue mean remark...) But that is exactly why I used the "Kale Candy bar." You are right I was adding humor. I did that purposely because people were getting rather rude and things were getting intense. It's a message board, it should be light heartened. We should relax and just enjoy helping each other live a healthy lifestyle. ... not debate about every little thing.
I am all for having adult conversations. It does surprise me that your post was written just to me when there were many more rude posts directed at me instead. I'm a big girl though and can handle it. I'm still smiling.
Thank you for not just "attacking" like the herd and actually putting thought into your post even if we might have some disagreements on the content.0 -
":noway: When I said about the eating two donuts a day... I was saying ONLY 2 donuts a day... So even though they are under their calorie allotment, they aren't getting their other nutrients so it is not considered healthy. If someone is getting there nutrients and under calories, then it would be different. Not everything is just about calories (Yes I know that to burn 1 lb of fat you need to burn 3500 calories) , there are also fats, carbs, sodium, protein etc that can change the shape of your body. It isn't all just about calories in vs. calories out if you care about overall health rather than just weight loss. For example: Muscle needs protein to rebuild and strengthen. 2 Donuts alone per day might equal say 1000 calories (just picking a number here) so while you may lose "weight" since you are under calories, you are still putting fatty foods in your body which affects glycogen, blood sugar, insulin,etc which all in turn can be stored as fat rather than energy. Its not so simple as just monitoring calories. I wouldn't want people to focus just on getting skinny or losing weight, but rather learning about portions, healthy whole foods, exercise, strength training etc.. Let's focus on feeling GOOD! :happy:"
I do agree with what you are saying here. Right now for me though I am focusing on my CICO. I know this isn't the healthiest but it is what I am doing for now (I still fail some days). My plan as of now is to wait until I get to my goal weight or close and then worry about the nutrition. I know this probably isn't the best method and is only the one I'm using right now. Tomorrow I could change my mind. Most days I seem to meet "most" of my macro's but I need to clean that up a bit and quite a bit on some days. Right now I think just focusing on my calories will make me healthier. Not healthy but healthier. This drives my husband crazy because he wants me to focus on all the nutrients while he does not. LOL
[/quote]
I think that is great. You need to do what is best for you. Weight loss isn't a race... the kind that really lasts takes time and effort. Keep setting goals and yes you will fail sometimes, we all do, but don't let those failures frustrate you and hold you back. You can definitely reach them. We all have different ways to feel good/confident. My way might be different than yours and so on, but you do what works for you.
Best of luck. (And hubbies aren't always right haha) 0 -
I feel like this could have gone in a completely different way, had OP not used the word clean.
Moderation. Now, that's something I can get behind.
For me it would have went differently if the OP didn't constantly equate healthy to clean in her prior posts and implying that anything that isn't clean is unhealthy or even just not healthy. I happen to think that someone could eat 100% unclean and still be just as healthy if they ate 100% clean.
Indeed.
OP did not *misspeak* in her assertion about "clean" eating. OP simply has an opinion that eating 100% "clean" is superior in re health to eating <100% "clean"...or said another way, that all else being equal the "cleaner" one eats, the "healthier" they will be.
In her defense, she certainly isn't the only one with this incorrect belief.0 -
I think enough has been said about the whole clean eating drama. If you guys still want to discuss it by all means, but I am ready to move on. (Jeez, these boards are tough to walk away from... they are entertaining to say the least). :drinker:
I leave it at this: I NEVER intended for my use of the words "eat clean" mean that you should eat healthy 100% of the time, avoid ALL processed foods, and never indulge. Trust me... that was NOT my intention because I don't even follow those notions. I will not use that term in these boards again because I understand where some of you are coming from, and because it just isn't worth anymore arguing over it. :sick:
I'm not going anywhere (so for those of you who want that... sorry!) But I do look forward to future debates, conversations/discussions etc.
That is what is great about message boards. I just wish that on here we could relax and have good general discussions and help each other be successful and meet their own goals.
I wish you all the best of luck on your fitness journeys. I'll still be checking in on here and will still defend myself if I see fit. I will also be more than happy to actually discuss things in my post. (Or like I mentioned... messaging me is always a quicker option).
Have a great evening!
Now, if someone has any genuine questions regarding my use of the term, or about what my post was actually about, PLEASE feel free to message me 0 -
Just going to drop these links for any lurkers interested in learning more...
http://body-improvements.com/2013/05/24/undiet-your-diet/
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/ihad/view/the-myth-of-good-and-bad-foods-by-eric-helms-588801
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html0 -
And I still maintain that chicken is not inherently more healthy than pizza.
What is "silly" about this particular discussion is the insistence that it is.
TL;DR - dietary health simply cannot be determined on a food-by-food basis.
edit: because the word "not" matters.0 -
I never ONCE said I was an expert... I said that "experts" use that term as well, which is accurate. Do I personally feel I have good knowledge on the topic? Yes! Absolutely! But that is not something I even CARE to prove on a message board. I'm simply implying that with my personal experiences, I have been successful with how I take to fitness. I never said anyone should follow or do exactly as I say lol.
True you didn't actually say you were an expert, but it sure was inferred:I guess being a nationally certified trainer, fitness specialist, and working assistant to a doctor and nutritionist must mean I know nothing... lol. (eye roll)
But I'm sure you'll just come back and say you didn't actually say even though anyone spouting off these credentials in any other situation sure would sound like they were waving the big ole "I'm an expert" flag..but each their own perception I guess?0 -
Perhaps?
“What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson0 -
Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.
He coined the term and, while he did not copyright it, it belongs to him and only describes his fad program.0 -
Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.
But, what if you're following Eat Clean by Tosca Reno? :laugh:0 -
Deluxe pizza is more healthy than lean chicken.And yes I believe pizza is as good as lean chicken..maybe more so as it has more macros than chicken and hits lots of micros...esp if it's delux with veggies and cheese and meats.
You can't make this stuff up.
As was explained, pizza is simply a bread-based crust with cheese and tomato-based sauce (usually) plus some items on top, here specified as vegetables and meat. There is nothing inherently unhealthy about pizza. What would it be?
Bread? (I'm assuming we aren't talking about the cauliflower pizza here.) I realize that some are anti bread in all respects, but most are not. Bread can be a part of a healthy diet and it's even recommended in ridiculous amounts (IMO) by the US gov't. Better to have whole grain? Sure, use whole grain flour. I've made pizza crust with whole grain flour before. It's not unheard of. Plus, if you make/buy thin crust, it's not that high a percentage of the total. More traditional pizza (at least as I understand it) tends to have extremely thin crust (although white, of course).
Cheese? Well, cheese has tons of calories, so use sparingly or be prepared to make room in your day, but given the number of people (even some "clean eaters!") who snack on cheese, seems kind of harsh to disqualify pizza based on cheese.
Meat? Why? Some people even have chicken on pizza (my parents, for example, and I've done it too, although I tend to prefer less healthy meatless pizza, sadly). And already we have all three macros covered!
Veggies? Add lots. I love spinach pizza, and I'm also partial to green peppers on pizza (with mushroom and black olives), but load it up with the veggies you prefer.
Compare that to chicken, even chicken breast, and the chicken is mainly preferable if one is cutting fat or if one is trying to save calories. But we already fit this into out calories, remember.
On the whole, the problem with pizza is that it may have more calories than it's filling-ness justifies, but that's going to vary a lot depending on how it's made, and that it may be quite fat and carb heavy, but that can be fixed by eating more protein the rest of the day or putting more of a leaner variety on the pizza.
On the other hand, if you just ate chicken breast you'd of course not be healthy, and there are probably some (not me) who would be more likely to eat veggies if they were on pizza.
The point--as Diane and Stef both explained--is that context matters.0
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