Moderation DOES NOT WORK for me
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By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch
When I mention the nasty bugs and bug excretions that find their way deliberately or accidentally into our processed foods I get a lot of people saying "So what? Cultures XY and Z all eat bugs and love them!"
So by that reasoning, if we'd all been raised on grasshopper pizza crust we'd all find it delicious and nothing less would do. Therefore, how can we ever separate what foods we've been conditioned to like from what has a 'good' taste and texture?0 -
Whole wheat is becoming more popular in Naples.....yup, they sell it to the American tourists.:bigsmile:
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch0 -
Whole wheat is becoming more popular in Naples.....yup, they sell it to the American tourists.:bigsmile:
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch
Blurg :sick:
It's almost as bad as whole wheat pasta or brown rice sushi, but not quite.0 -
Yes you need willpower, but to succeed long term you don't have to hocus pocus extra willpower out of thin air, all you need to do is "ration" the willpower you already have the smartest way you can and just take the route of least resistance, be it moderation, elimination, low carb, high carb, paleo, vegetarian, IF... etc. After all isn't that what "sustainable" means? Something that won't burn you out within a short period of time?
Wouldn't you want to know if the majority of people wound up wanting to eat their shoe, slap their children and gained extra weight on a diet you were considering?0 -
So by that reasoning, if we'd all been raised on grasshopper pizza crust we'd all find it delicious and nothing less would do. Therefore, how can we ever separate what foods we've been conditioned to like from what has a 'good' taste and texture?
Of course it's culturally determined. NYers just sometimes think they have a monopoly on being able to judge good pizza, IME.
My problem with cauliflower crust (which is not serious) is that I don't see how you make it really work as crust with it either falling apart or you having to make the cauliflower an unappealing texture or add weird stuff. Also, I'm not especially sympathetic to the idea of pretend foods. Like I'm cool with people being vegetarian or vegan, but don't get why they would then want to eat fake meat. I really like adding pasta sauce (homemade, of course) to winter squash as an alternative to pasta, but don't get the desire to make pretend pasta from different foods (spaghetti squash is different because it comes that way). So for the same reason, I don't get trying to make pretend pizza without flour. If you want something with tomato sauce and cheese and veggies and maybe some meat, plus cauliflower, could be good, but pretending like the cauliflower is really a crust seems odd to me.
That said, I'd try it if offered and could change my mind. (I do think the fear of wheat these days is ridiculously overblown, though, so wouldn't bother making it myself.). I'll admit that I'm not sure why cheeseless pizza and tomatoless don't bother me at all, but cauliflower seems like a ridiculous effort to pretend that you are eating something you aren't.
I'm sure it's cultural. Most things are.0 -
Yes you need willpower, but to succeed long term you don't have to hocus pocus extra willpower out of thin air, all you need to do is "ration" the willpower you already have the smartest way you can and just take the route of least resistance, be it moderation, elimination, low carb, high carb, paleo, vegetarian, IF... etc. After all isn't that what "sustainable" means? Something that won't burn you out within a short period of time?
Wouldn't you want to know if the majority of people wound up wanting to eat their shoe, slap their children and gained extra weight on a diet you were considering?
If a diet does all that, it's not the smartest way to go about it. All you need to do is weigh benefits, risks and ease of use. It's really not that complicated. It just surprises me that so many people only consider a diet successful if they had to suffer through it and do it "the hard way" as if it made them superior in some sense.
I did it the easiest way I could. I went under 1000 calories on some days (GASP!) and over maintenance on some days (DOUBLE GASP!) and even had a period where I opted to maintain for a few months until I go the spark back instead of muscling my way through it, and at no point did I feel it was too hard and I just need to muster willpower to make it through the day.0 -
Yes you need willpower, but to succeed long term you don't have to hocus pocus extra willpower out of thin air, all you need to do is "ration" the willpower you already have the smartest way you can and just take the route of least resistance, be it moderation, elimination, low carb, high carb, paleo, vegetarian, IF... etc. After all isn't that what "sustainable" means? Something that won't burn you out within a short period of time?
Wouldn't you want to know if the majority of people wound up wanting to eat their shoe, slap their children and gained extra weight on a diet you were considering?
If a diet does all that, it's not the smartest way to go about it. All you need to do is weigh benefits, risks and ease of use. It's really not that complicated. It just surprises me that so many people only consider a diet successful if they had to suffer through it and do it "the hard way" as if it made them superior in some sense.
I did it the easiest way I could. I went under 1000 calories on some days (GASP!) and over maintenance on some days (DOUBLE GASP!) and even had a period where I opted to maintain for a few months until I go the spark back instead of muscling my way through it, and at no point did I feel it was too hard and I just need to muster willpower to make it through the day.
Agreed. While I don't always do what I want, when I want - when it comes to diet and exercise, I do not believe in white knuckling it as an overall weight loss strategy0 -
wow. that was lame.
I don't think it's that. It's the weird apoplectic thing that happens when someone mentions cauliflower crust. If it IS about an artisan pizza with veggies, then WOW this place is nuttier than I ever imagined.
You've never tasted my pizza, silly boy.
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
I love that this is in reply to me saying pizza isn't PIZZA HUT. What a bizarre forum this is!!! when PIZZA HUT is the benchmark for pizza??!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I haven't been on MFP for long, but I don't think I will ever understand people who get upset at those who enjoy eating vegetables, haha. It seems to really and truly upset some people. And I agree, Pizza Hut as a benchmark is bizarre. I think the country of Italy is crying right now. I'm in New York, and I feel all the nyc pizzerias crying right now. Jeez. I have to laugh. But, I mean, if someone likes Pizza Hut, cool.
...I'll go with handmade crust with lots of veggies because it's fun to make and veggies taste awesome.
It's just amusing. It's like claiming intellect and talking about loosing wait.0 -
Wow. You really are limited.
Whole wheat is becoming more popular in Naples.....yup, they sell it to the American tourists.:bigsmile:
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch
Blurg :sick:
It's almost as bad as whole wheat pasta or brown rice sushi, but not quite.0 -
Wow. You really are limited.
Whole wheat is becoming more popular in Naples.....yup, they sell it to the American tourists.:bigsmile:
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch
Blurg :sick:
It's almost as bad as whole wheat pasta or brown rice sushi, but not quite.
I see that your bastardization of language competes with your destruction of food0 -
okay.
Wow. You really are limited.
Whole wheat is becoming more popular in Naples.....yup, they sell it to the American tourists.:bigsmile:
By YOUR definition. Fortunately. I don't live by your definitions. :laugh:
And if I'm going to have pizza, as a foodie it's going to be a damned good probably artisan pizza. No Pizza Hut for me. But it's going to be on a whole wheat crust (or cauliflower if I get the hankering, which happens), and have lots of veggies.
That's not pizza.
Not by anyone with taste buds. But hey, you're fine and healthy and sane, right?
Well, I don't know about that. Where I live, the farm to table movement is pretty big and there are a lot of super tasty artisan pizzas, with whole wheat crusts and gluten free crusts options. I've never tried the cauliflower version before, but I might look into that. The crust is just a delivery vehicle for the sauce, cheese and toppings for the most part. Don't get me wrong, a stuffed deep dish can be delicious too (oooh, Zachary's...) but to say that artisan pizzas don't have there place in the pizza pantheon is just plain crazy.
If you think the crust is just a delivery vehicle then your palate is dead. Period.
Right. Because pizza crust is an important basis point for palate range. Next time I'm at French Laundry, I'll be sure to ask about their preferred pizza crust. Hahahaha.
You truly know nothing about food. But, hey, enjoy your brunch
Blurg :sick:
It's almost as bad as whole wheat pasta or brown rice sushi, but not quite.
I see that your bastardization of language competes with your destruction of food0 -
A relevant article that appeared in my newsfeed this morning:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/junk-food-diet-stops-new-foods-082814
“The work suggests that consumption of junk foods may make you relatively indifferent to novel food, which may encourage overconsumption. Also that you may overeat when exposed to signals linked to palatable foods.”0 -
It just surprises me that so many people only consider a diet successful if they had to suffer through it and do it "the hard way" as if it made them superior in some sense.
This is so true, although what makes for the hard way varies from person to person. I agree that minimizing the amount of willpower needed (although some obviously will be) is ideal.
I actually see this as related to the post a few days ago from the person jealous that others not eating as "clean" as her were losing more. It's like people think lost weight should be a prize for suffering sometimes.
Note: I don't personally think eating healthy (not "clean," which means nothing) takes a lot of willpower, is hard, or leads to suffering, but sometimes you see this sense that it is (or deserves some kind of prize) from the people who proclaim most loudly that it's their strategy and the One True Way. Usually it's the fervor of the new convert thing, IMO.0 -
Well, if you wouldn't have taken my comment out of context, it would've been quite clear why I refuted that implication.
I'm not sure how else to take your question. You asked:Can you please tell me what's in potato chips (or any legal food, for that matter) that is comparable to cocaine?
You seem to be laboring under the idea that someone suggested that there is an ingredient in food that is comparable to cocaine.
No one has suggested that there is an ingredient in food that is comparable to cocaine.
Now if what you really meant to ask is what is it about food that triggers the reward centers in the brain similar to the way cocaine does, then you may be interested in articles like this:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction
"Experiments in animals and humans show that, for some people, the same reward and pleasure centers of the brain that are triggered by addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin are also activated by food, especially highly palatable foods. Highly palatable foods are foods rich in:
Sugar
Fat
Salt
Like addictive drugs, highly palatable foods trigger feel-good brain chemicals such as dopamine. Once people experience pleasure associated with increased dopamine transmission in the brain's reward pathway from eating certain foods, they quickly feel the need to eat again.
The reward signals from highly palatable foods may override other signals of fullness and satisfaction. As a result, people keep eating, even when they're not hungry."When I was a child, my grandfather made homemade potato chips, liberally salted. They weren't as crispy as I would've liked, but I ate many, many of them.
What about a cake made from "scratch" (if that's "natural" enough for you). Would most individuals want less of it, as opposed to the mass-produced variety?
There is absolutely no doubt that you can make calorie-dense foods at home. A single rack of my BBQ ribs on the smoker contains an entire day's worth of calories. But they are quite expensive and thus a rare treat. Likewise you can make home-made ice cream. But it is time consuming and thus few people do it very often.
Manufactured food products are generally inexpensive and convenient, which is why they are taking a front-and-center place in the diet of people in developed countries. This is probably why a majority of Americans are overweight.There doesn't need to be a diabolical reason people like fatty, sugary, salty, etc. foods.
I never suggested that there was a "diabolical" reason why people like tasty, calorie-dense food. What I am suggesting is that it has become the predominant dietary staple for a lot of people, and if you eat them without tracking your calories, you will probably eat a surplus without realizing it.0 -
\Seriously, think about how silly this statement is.
Perhaps you could explain, because I fail to see what is silly about it.0 -
Personally, I'd say people often confuse the effects of food/sugar/what-have-you, with eating way too damn much of it.
Exactly. This goes back to my comment about lay-persons getting confused and thinking it's something toxic about the food itself.
It's not. While Oreos may not be the most nutritious food in the world, I doubt there is anything inherently unhealthy about them. They are just extremely compelling to eat and calorie dense. If you're like me and sit down and eat an entire row of the 3-row pack at a sitting, say 20 cookies, you've just eaten 1000 calories in cookies without batting an eye. That is 2/3 of a normal man's daily calorie allotment.0 -
I feel like doing some white knighting, so I'll say this in defense of the "moderation doesn't work" peeps:
Whereas guided moderation has worked great for me, I've noticed time and again that moderation doesn't seem to work (except very short term) in the absence of some objective way to measure both how much I've eaten and how much I should be eating.
It's all nice and good to say moderation works while we have at our disposal a tool that makes it easy, but if I didn't have access to some sort of way to log what I eat (or if I didn't want to do so), restrictive dieting would be the only way I could keep my weight stable.
In a very real sense, it's less a matter of "one method is better than the other" than one of "we have two methods, each with their advantages and disadvantages".0 -
In a very real sense, it's less a matter of "one method is better than the other" than one of "we have two methods, each with their advantages and disadvantages".
Pretty much this.0 -
\Seriously, think about how silly this statement is.
Perhaps you could explain, because I fail to see what is silly about it.
Maybe you should have left in the statement, as it was self-evident.
But let's recap. You suggested that someone might be addicted to naan. Not even bread (which like I said, I can mostly take or leave), but naan.
That's like saying that someone is addicted to '00 Bordeaux. Not an alcoholic and no issues with booze generally, but just '00 Bordeaux. That someone really likes something and so wants to eat more of it than his or her brain says is logically ideal, that as human beings we sometimes put short term pleasure over longer term objectives does not mean that we lack choice or are "addicted" and unable to avoid eating up all the naan in the restaurant once we have a crumb. It demonstrates what a perverted understanding of addiction you are using.
Is it possible to be a food addict? I think so--I think that's how some people (not everyone) become morbidly obese. When you talk to them their relationship with food and the effects on their life are akin to the relationship of an alcoholic with alcohol or another addict with their drug of choice (and I'd include gambling and so on). But to suggest that someone's love for a particular food stuff and thus struggle with moderation for that item=addiction is just bizarre.0 -
A relevant article that appeared in my newsfeed this morning:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/junk-food-diet-stops-new-foods-082814
“The work suggests that consumption of junk foods may make you relatively indifferent to novel food, which may encourage overconsumption. Also that you may overeat when exposed to signals linked to palatable foods.”
I haven't read the article but given the number of kids raised on French fries, tater toys and chicken fingers, I'm open to the possibility, though I fail to see how replacement food is the answer. I also don't see the point of the article if it's directed at those of us who eat a large variety of foods from a variety of food cultures, but insist that food is fresh, high quality, and palatable.0
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