An argument with a person in shape = no way to win
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Seriously though.
99% of people don't really care.
People who do care already have a strong opinion on it. Nothing you say will have any impact on that.
At the end of the day, what does it matter what other people think about it? If someone thinks that unicorn poop is their secret weapon in getting and staying thin, what effect really does that have on your life?
Places like mfp exist for this kind of thing. Collect together a like-minded band of nutters who share your vision (also known as a FL) and then get to work and lose some weight. Don't bore people ****less in reallife. Because, and I can't stress this enough, nobody really gives a ****.0 -
I haven't read all the replies, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what you've already been told.I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
There might be no way of winning this argument today but you could do exactly as he asked. Keep doing what you know to work; continue the fantastic progress you're making. It's not an instant win but you can do it whilst achieving your goals and perhaps he'll learn something in the process.0 -
Use it to fuel your motivation and lose weight bro, then say I told you so
Win situation buddy0 -
I recent had a similar argument with my husband he said I could never have a six pack/ low BF% because genetics and my age are against me. He said all the female members of my family are overweight and no matter what I did I couldn't change that. I tried to point out that the majority of my family eat very badly and take no exercise but he wouldn't listen he said I was fighting a losing battle. The only thing to be done is prove him wrong so now I am on a mission to prove him wrong, I like a challenge.0
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You have to find an appropriate punishment for him though
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Opinions are like *kitten*. Everyone's got one, and no one wants to look at the other guy's.
If I've learned anything in the 50+ years I've been above ground, is that there is always some bogeyman food or behavior and some ultra righteous food or behavior, both of which eventually turn out to be no better and no worse than any typical food or behavior.
Just stick with what works for you and move on.0 -
Not true.Nutrient timing and or eating breakfast is largely irrelevant for most people especially if your goal is simple weight loss/muscle retention
In my blog post on 10JUN14 I discussed some studies about weight loss, including these which support the idea that eating a large breakfast and small dinner (most calories by noon) causes people to lose more weight (and improve other health markers more) than the usual American eating habit of a tiny breakfast & large dinner.
"Breakfast is associated with lower body weight ... "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898236
This study compared eating a small breakfast, medium lunch, and large dinner, [200, 500, 700 cal]
with eating a large breakfast, medium lunch, and small dinner [700, 500, 200 cal].
"The [large breakfast] group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction ... fasting glucose, insulin [&] triglycerides ... decreased significantly to a greater extent in the [large breakfast] group."
In addition, hunger was less and satiety was greater.
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957
Full text:
http://genetics.doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jakubowicz-at-al-Obesity-2013-oby20460.pdf
"subjects assigned to high caloric intake during breakfast lost significantly more weight than those assigned to high caloric intake during the dinner"
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467926
Full text: http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nutrient-Timing-and-Obesity-2014.pdf
"data suggest that a low-calorie Mediterranean diet with a higher amount of calories in the first part of the day could establish a greater reduction in fat mass and improved insulin sensitivity than a typical daily diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24809437
O.M.G. - I just did an audio transcript for someone who tries to bill himself as a financial advisor of sorts, as well as a parenting expert... all the while his main source of income is food stamps & tax refunds, his family is on medicaid for "healthcare", etc.I don't take financial advice from poor people, either
Oh, and he's caused at least 8 children that I know of, despite his wife having a couple heart conditions (so each pregnancy & delivery risks her life). That doesn't make him a parenting expert, it makes him a "creating babies" expert.
Irony.He has no clue what is will be like when his metabolism slow's in a few years!! I'd like to see how much he know's then
(Maybe he'll know basic English & the proper use of the apostrophe? Maybe he already does?)
Again, you're mixing your arguments.a calorie is a calorie no matter what time you eat it, you could not eat all day long then eat all of your calories in one big meal right before you go to bed and still lose the exact same amount of weight
Yes, an inch is an inch and a calorie is a calorie.
And no, you can't do the "OMAD" eating disorder diet and be healthy.
I looked at that study and I really can't see how they made sure the people were compliant to the given diet apart from asking them "Hey, you didn't eat anything we didn't tell you to, right?" I'm not even overweight and if I were to be given a 200 calorie breakfast I would be hungry as hell for a good while.
What I'm trying to say is that the non-compliance within that group was probably a lot higher than the participants admitted.
Which would also explain that they started to gain weight again at the end which should be pretty much impossible on a 1400 calorie diet like they were supposed to eat.0 -
OP I dont really care if you were right or not - and neither does your co worker.
You are right - it is an unwinnable argument - not because you are fat and he is thin - but because nobody except you actually cares about it.
Learn from this - let other peoples incorrect opinions drift over your head, smile, nod and move on.
Do not get involved in "prove who is right' conversations
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.0 -
Gonna be hard to find since it's months old and we get about a dozen threads about the same topics weekly.
But in the end, since you will always get a little less calories than are in the food, then for weight loss it really doesn't matter. Take the numbers that are on the package and you're guaranteed to get less than that, no matter what they're made up of. Although I have to say I would be surprised if the numbers from the FDA weren't normalized to account for that if it can actually be as low as 20% in fructose.
They don't.
Its one of the reasons why "people who eat more fiber lose more weight" is actually true. Fiber is largely undigested and goes straight out your body, but its still counted as a carb with 4 calories /gram. If you are eating 30 grams of fiber / day, about 120 calories you consumed are actually negligible.
I was reading a news story about some doctors who were studying this. I really hope they do not alter food labels. Figuring out how many calories to eat/day is already a headache. Can you imagine how much it would change if suddenly the calories labeled were only the calories our bodies digest and don't waste?0 -
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.
From the "sweet tooth's" in the crowd, no doubt.0 -
Not true.Nutrient timing and or eating breakfast is largely irrelevant for most people especially if your goal is simple weight loss/muscle retention
In my blog post on 10JUN14 I discussed some studies about weight loss, including these which support the idea that eating a large breakfast and small dinner (most calories by noon) causes people to lose more weight (and improve other health markers more) than the usual American eating habit of a tiny breakfast & large dinner.
"Breakfast is associated with lower body weight ... "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898236
This study compared eating a small breakfast, medium lunch, and large dinner, [200, 500, 700 cal]
with eating a large breakfast, medium lunch, and small dinner [700, 500, 200 cal].
"The [large breakfast] group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction ... fasting glucose, insulin [&] triglycerides ... decreased significantly to a greater extent in the [large breakfast] group."
In addition, hunger was less and satiety was greater.
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957
Full text:
http://genetics.doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jakubowicz-at-al-Obesity-2013-oby20460.pdf
"subjects assigned to high caloric intake during breakfast lost significantly more weight than those assigned to high caloric intake during the dinner"
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467926
Full text: http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nutrient-Timing-and-Obesity-2014.pdf
"data suggest that a low-calorie Mediterranean diet with a higher amount of calories in the first part of the day could establish a greater reduction in fat mass and improved insulin sensitivity than a typical daily diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24809437
O.M.G. - I just did an audio transcript for someone who tries to bill himself as a financial advisor of sorts, as well as a parenting expert... all the while his main source of income is food stamps & tax refunds, his family is on medicaid for "healthcare", etc.I don't take financial advice from poor people, either
Oh, and he's caused at least 8 children that I know of, despite his wife having a couple heart conditions (so each pregnancy & delivery risks her life). That doesn't make him a parenting expert, it makes him a "creating babies" expert.
Irony.He has no clue what is will be like when his metabolism slow's in a few years!! I'd like to see how much he know's then
(Maybe he'll know basic English & the proper use of the apostrophe? Maybe he already does?)
Again, you're mixing your arguments.a calorie is a calorie no matter what time you eat it, you could not eat all day long then eat all of your calories in one big meal right before you go to bed and still lose the exact same amount of weight
Yes, an inch is an inch and a calorie is a calorie.
And no, you can't do the "OMAD" eating disorder diet and be healthy.
http://www.gnolls.org/2181/the-breakfast-myth-part-2-the-art-and-science-of-not-eating-breakfast/
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2013/08/06/a-beginners-guide-to-intermittent-fasting/0 -
[/quote]
Not true.Nutrient timing and or eating breakfast is largely irrelevant for most people especially if your goal is simple weight loss/muscle retention
In my blog post on 10JUN14 I discussed some studies about weight loss, including these which support the idea that eating a large breakfast and small dinner (most calories by noon) causes people to lose more weight (and improve other health markers more) than the usual American eating habit of a tiny breakfast & large dinner.
"Breakfast is associated with lower body weight ... "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898236
This study compared eating a small breakfast, medium lunch, and large dinner, [200, 500, 700 cal]
with eating a large breakfast, medium lunch, and small dinner [700, 500, 200 cal].
"The [large breakfast] group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction ... fasting glucose, insulin [&] triglycerides ... decreased significantly to a greater extent in the [large breakfast] group."
In addition, hunger was less and satiety was greater.
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957
Full text:
http://genetics.doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jakubowicz-at-al-Obesity-2013-oby20460.pdf
"subjects assigned to high caloric intake during breakfast lost significantly more weight than those assigned to high caloric intake during the dinner"
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467926
Full text: http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nutrient-Timing-and-Obesity-2014.pdf
"data suggest that a low-calorie Mediterranean diet with a higher amount of calories in the first part of the day could establish a greater reduction in fat mass and improved insulin sensitivity than a typical daily diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24809437
These studies aren't great in proving your point. Did you actually read the full text of them? The first study didn't control calories which is pretty much worthless to the calorie counting folks of MFP. The 2nd study appears to prove just what you are saying BUT did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to ensure people complied with the parameters of the study. You are simply taking people at their word that they ate exactly what you told them too for the entire duration of the study. Self reported nutritional consumption data is essentially trash. People lie about these things, a lot. They also suck at estimating calories and portion sizes. The 3rd link is an article not really a study and the 4th had no full text so I cannot comment. But all that has been shown is correlation, weak correlation based on self reported data at that. Causation was never proven.0 -
A calorie is a calorie. You can't change the amount of energy a calorie is macro to macro. 1 calorie of protein is equal to 1 calorie of carbs or fat. This ISN'T disputed in the science world.While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Ah, arguing with someone that has the end results but either got there in terrible ways or were always there... annoying.
Guy I am dating got really skinny by starving himself (2 of 3 meals in the day are 120 calorie protein bars). Told me I need to eat every 2 hours our my body immediately goes into starvation mode and won't burn a single calorie...
...
I didn't want to say anything.0 -
A calorie is a calorie. You can't change the amount of energy a calorie is macro to macro. 1 calorie of protein is equal to 1 calorie of carbs or fat. This ISN'T disputed in the science world.While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.
So then you are saying that unused, 1 calorie of Carbs is stored and turned to fat just as quickly as 1 calorie of protein???? Um, I can tell you that Science will refute that.0 -
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.
From the "sweet tooth's" in the crowd, no doubt.
Or from the people who understand nutrition.....
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Strawman argument. He never said the body doesn't treat carbs and protein differently. Of course it does. But a calorie is simply a unit of measurement. Think of it this way, pound of muscle is very different then a pound of fat, but both weigh a pound. The pound doesn't change, it's exactly the same. Sure they will have completely different uses in the body but the fact remains that just like all pounds are pounds, all calories are calories.
A calorie is a calorie. You can't change the amount of energy a calorie is macro to macro. 1 calorie of protein is equal to 1 calorie of carbs or fat. This ISN'T disputed in the science world.While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.
So then you are saying that unused, 1 calorie of Carbs is stored and turned to fat just as quickly as 1 calorie of protein???? Um, I can tell you that Science will refute that.0 -
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.
From the "sweet tooth's" in the crowd, no doubt.
I'm more of a "salt and fat" girl myself, which is one of the reasons I disagree that sugar is necessarily addictive.0 -
Vismal: This is the best explanation I've heard. As usual, you've explained it perfectly. Whether or not it will be received... :ohwell:
Strawman argument. He never said the body doesn't treat carbs and protein differently. Of course it does. But a calorie is simply a unit of measurement. Think of it this way, pound of muscle is very different then a pound of fat, but both weigh a pound. The pound doesn't change, it's exactly the same. Sure they will have completely different uses in the body but the fact remains that just like all pounds are pounds, all calories are calories.
A calorie is a calorie. You can't change the amount of energy a calorie is macro to macro. 1 calorie of protein is equal to 1 calorie of carbs or fat. This ISN'T disputed in the science world.
So then you are saying that unused, 1 calorie of Carbs is stored and turned to fat just as quickly as 1 calorie of protein???? Um, I can tell you that Science will refute that.
And as for the Strawman argument: If I had a dollar for every one of those I read on these boards daily...!0 -
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.
From the "sweet tooth's" in the crowd, no doubt.
I am not a great sweet tooth myself but I can still think of lots of things on the planet worse than sugar for you
Being stung by 1000 bees
Starvation
Cancer
Being stabbed
Bring shot
Etcetera
If that is the sort of statement you make to your co worker I can see why there are arguments0
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