Pay to Use MFP? What?

chivalryder

Not really, but a possibility if this bill goes through...

Not sure what I'm talking about? Watch john oliver explain is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU

Everyone should watch this, and I mean EVERYONE. Why? The cable companies of the USA are trying to force a bill through that will make tech companies, the providers of information on the internet, to pay a fee to have higher data speeds on the internet. Why is this bad? Well, John Oliver in the linked video explains it better than anyone else.

Also, for more information to help prevent the internet from forever being destroyed, you can go here:

https://www.battleforthenet.com/

Seriously. If you like the internet, please watch this, or places like MFP may eventually die. Even if you don't use cable or live in the USA, you will be effected by this.

LoneWolf_70

so everything should be free?

chivalryder

so everything should be free?

Thank you for completely missing the point.

The_WoIverine

so everything should be free?

so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?

LoneWolf_70

so everything should be free?

Thank you for completely missing the point.

so explain it.

If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.

Butrovich

.

LoneWolf_70

so everything should be free?

so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?

well, quite frankly, yes. This is basic economic theory. If you use more of a product/service that effects other users...you will likely pay more.

Timelordlady85

So from my understanding their trying to make the sites like this pay more money for internet speeds( that currently accommodate for the large amount of internet traffic they get) thus causing them to possibly have to make customers pay to use free sites because they wont be able to keep them free if this bill is passed/.?

ninerbuff

Internet now is being looked at as a "utility" service since it's available in practically any urban setting. Not to mention, that cable and satellite providers are consistently losing customers to TV viewing packages due to online streaming.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

chivalryder

so everything should be free?

Thank you for completely missing the point.

so explain it.

If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.

Watch the video when you can. No one explains it better than John.

If you're too lazy to do that, then here it is in a nutshell: It's not a matter of cars driving on a highway, with a few larger cars needing to pay to use it. It will be more like the speed limit on the highway will be set to 5mph so no one will ever want to use it, and to use the lane with the normal speed, you will have to pay a rpemium, regardless of how big your car is.

Everyone will suffer but the cable companies.

Heck, even Google, Amazon, Netflix, etc. are against this from happening. Why?

Because the internet will no logner be a place where free speech will be allowed.

Want to start up a blog? I'm sorry, you can't because no one will read your blog because you can't pay the premium to allow people to read your content - unless you find an audience who don't mind waiting a minute or two for your page to load.

Do you already own a small online store? I'm sorry, you can't sell anything any logner unless you jack up the prices to pay the extra premium.

Are you a part of a free inernet fitness/weightloss community that has minimal ads and is fairly nice to spend time on and is a useful tool for losing weight? Well, it's no logner free because the provider of the service needs to pay a fee to have it delivered to the people at a reasonable speed. Either that, or now it is so littered with ads that no one will want to use it.

Get the point?

The_WoIverine

so everything should be free?

so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?

well, quite frankly, yes. This is basic economic theory. If you use more of a product/service that effects other users...you will likely pay more.

I think you're wrong. It is almost like monopolizing the internet, so to speak, since Comcast is the only internet provider in most areas, so they are taking full advantage of that, only hurting the people, including people like you.

chivalryder

It's not just the fact that free sites will become pay sites. It's the fact that the internet is the only medium that allows unrestricted free speech. You can make, say, do, sell, or preach anything and everything you possibly wanted to, and people will be able to access it, should they so desire.

There is nothing else in the world that can allow this.

If the bill is passed, that will no logner be true. It will then only become a place where people who have money and power can do or say what they want. Everyone else will be shut out.

chivalryder

so everything should be free?

so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?

well, quite frankly, yes. This is basic economic theory. If you use more of a product/service that effects other users...you will likely pay more.

I think you're wrong. It is almost like monopolizing the internet, so to speak, since Comcast is the only internet provider in most areas, so they are taking full advantage of that, only hurting the people, including people like you.

Exactly.

Comcast will make it so the people in th regoins they control will only be able to see content on the internet that they want the people to see.

chriamaria

They can try, doesn't mean they'll succeed. There is always some business that is upset because another one took their revenue by coming up with a new invention/idea. The video rental places sure hated netflix and redbox, and I remember hearing about blockbuster or something-or-other trying to sue. In the end, netflix and redbox are still here. Blockbuster is but they had to change their market. All other video stores, with the exception of a few here and there, are gone. They just couldn't compete. That is just one example.

DerekVTX

so everything should be free?

Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.

ninerbuff

Exactly.

Comcast will make it so the people in th regoins they control will only be able to see content on the internet that they want the people to see.

Not really sure about that though. Possibly, but by the same token, there will be offers from companies (say like Hughes net direct satellite) that will trump something like that to attain customers. There will always be an option when it comes to free speech.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

DerekVTX

so everything should be free?

so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?

well, quite frankly, yes. This is basic economic theory. If you use more of a product/service that effects other users...you will likely pay more.

Not sure about in the US, but in Canada where I am for instance we have different Bandwith Speed levels.....you pay more for the faster speed, the ISP throttles down the speed accordingly.

No_Finish_Line

i find it hard to believe that companies were not already being asked to pay higher rates for higher internet speeds.

Thats how it works on the consumer end.

From my understanding, whats really driving this (other then greed) is the fact that the US data infastructure is far behind many other developed nations like Japan.

Not only does it make the ISP more money, but its a means of regulating traffic. Eventually (if we are not there already), because of the poor infastructure and the large amount of internet traffic, tactics like will be the only way anyone will be able to actually get high band width. Unless the ISPs invest in better infastructure, but that would be less profitable then charging people more and giving them less.

No_Finish_Line

i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes

chivalryder

i find it hard to believe that companies were not already being asked to pay higher rates for higher internet speeds.

Thats how it works on the consumer end.

From my understanding, whats really driving this (other then greed) is the fact that the US data infastructure is far behind many other developed nations like Japan.

Not only does it make the ISP more money, but its a means of regulating traffic. Eventually (if we are not there already), because of the poor infastructure and the large amount of internet traffic, tactics like will be the only way anyone will be able to actually get high band width. Unless the ISPs invest in better infastructure, but that would be less profitable then charging people more and giving them less.

Yes, we pay more money for higher speeds, but we are the consumer. We are paying for a service. What is happening here is the service provider is trying to force the people who are providing the content to pay a fee to allow their content to be reached by the consumer.

That's like the company that's building a house is forcing the company who supplies the nails to pay the huose builders to use their nails.

chivalryder

i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes

Ummm.... they already do. Most providers here cap it at 60BG/month. I have a limit of 300GB/month.

chivalryder

Another example of a situation as screwed up as this:

Sony, with the Playstation 3 tried to force the developers of the games to pay Sony money every time one of their games were downloaded from the online store.

That's why the PS3 didn't have nearly as many games as the Xbox360.

No_Finish_Line

i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes

Ummm.... they already do. Most providers here cap it at 60BG/month. I have a limit of 300GB/month.

well when they put a cap on it that the average person will typically hit, then start creating tears, its going to bite a lot worse.

when i signed up for a verizon buisness account, i had the option of paying 15 bucks more a month for a faster connection.

if there is an issue here, your post didn't describe it very well

LoneWolf_70

so everything should be free?

Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.

right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.

chivalryder

so everything should be free?

Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.

right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.

So you're ok with free speech being desroyed? That's ultimately what will happen.

mandez19

I don't think we will have to pay money, we will have to pay time. There are sites that force you to watch a commercial before reading an article.

chivalryder

i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes

Ummm.... they already do. Most providers here cap it at 60BG/month. I have a limit of 300GB/month.

well when they put a cap on it that the average person will typically hit, then start creating tears, its going to bite a lot worse.

when i signed up for a verizon buisness account, i had the option of paying 15 bucks more a month for a faster connection.

if there is an issue here, your post didn't describe it very well

Yes, that is YOU, the CONSUMER who is paying the extra money for a faster connection. Not the provider of the information.

We're not talking about a comparison between 15Mbps and 25Mbps. We're talking about sites lie MFP taking a minute or longer to load. We're talking about so slow, no regular person will browse it any longer because it will be too slow.

The ISP are not providing a service to the websites. They're providing a service to you, the consumer.

chivalryder

I don't think we will have to pay money, we will have to pay time. There are sites that force you to watch a commercial before reading an article.

That's one way they will have to go about it.

But what if it's a store selling a material product? Do you really think they're going to make you watch a commercial before you can view a product they're trying to sell?

No_Finish_Line

the throttling you don't pay for, its their free gift to you lol.

and i suspect nearly every ISP throttles users in someway.

Its all based on the same issue though, the information super highway never got larger then a two lane road but the whole country is on it.

the better solution would be to make the road bigger, but the ISPs are happier making you pay to play... basically selling the same thing (using thier lines to access the internet) but charging more people more money. They've essentially recreated the incredibly expensive long distance phone call farce of yester year.

chivalryder

What will die if the bill goes through is this:

Net neutrality (also network neutrality or Internet neutrality) is the principle that Internet service providers and governments should treat all data on the Internet equally, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, site, platform, application, type of attached equipment, and modes of communication.

It's not about capitalism or monopoly, or even money. It's about the fact that everything will no longer be teated equally. If it goes through, only those with money will be reached at decent speeds.

contingencyplan

i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes

Ummm.... they already do. Most providers here cap it at 60BG/month. I have a limit of 300GB/month.

well when they put a cap on it that the average person will typically hit, then start creating tears, its going to bite a lot worse.

when i signed up for a verizon buisness account, i had the option of paying 15 bucks more a month for a faster connection.

if there is an issue here, your post didn't describe it very well

Yes, that is YOU, the CONSUMER who is paying the extra money for a faster connection. Not the provider of the information.

We're not talking about a comparison between 15Mbps and 25Mbps. We're talking about sites lie MFP taking a minute or longer to load. We're talking about so slow, no regular person will browse it any longer because it will be too slow.

The ISP are not providing a service to the websites. They're providing a service to you, the consumer.

Basically they're talking about bringing the internet back down to dialup speeds from broadband deliberately in order to get an excuse to create a bigger profit margin. And if you want faster access, then it's up to the person hosting the site--whether it's MFP, Amazon, whatever, to pay a fee to YOUR internet provider (not theirs) so that YOU can access their site at the speeds your hardware is actually capable of again. These site hosts will have to find a way to squeeze more money out of you (free sites will no longer be free, sites that charge will have to charge even more, etc) in order to serve you. If you don't want to pay a membership fee, then you will be relegated to transfer speeds that will take it back to old dialup days.

EDIT: Basically, it works like this:

Comcast can choose whether or not their customers have access to Instagram. They can also choose what data rates their customers can access instagram at. What determines these things? How much money Instagram is willing to fork over to Comcast. If Instagram isn't willing to agree to Comcast's terms and rates, then Comcast customers will either a) be relegated to accessing Instagram at dialup speeds (basically it will take approximately 30 seconds to a minute for a single picture to load), or b) not having access to Instagram at all. So, since Instagram now has to pay Comcast a monthly fee just so that people who have Comcast as their ISP can access Instagram, Instagram will, in turn, have to find a way to squeeze that money out of its own users just to stay alive.