Pay to Use MFP? What?
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so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.
But what happens when one company, say RoadCast, owns all the roads in a state? They build crummy roads and only let trucks with lousy merchandise reach the grocery stores. Or they force certain merchants and producers out of business. So you pay a lot for poor quality meats and vegetables, and get poor customer service, because--where else are you going to get your groceries?. That's what's happened to cable and Comcast...
And it's why Internet cable, like roads and electric transmission lines, should largely be public utilities subject to certain rules, such as bandwith charges, the same way most of our roads are public, and the same way electric companies charge power plants for ferrying certain amounts of power over transmission lines, and so on. Bust up Comcast and allow some competition between public utilities to build the roads, and of course keep intact the healthy competition between content providers.0 -
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The only problem with this is economics. We know that it is not wise, nor feasible, to bust up, say, power companies. It is cheaper and more efficient for one power company to provide for a large area.
It's cheaper and mnore efficient usually because the large power company acts as a regulated monopoly under state and federal laws. Comcast, by comparison, is a de facto monopoly without the usual amount of regulation that comes from government oversight of monopolies.
When power companies, which own transmission lines, are given monopolies, they usually agree to forego certain things because electricity is considered a public service. Corporate profits are kept reasonable (say in the 12 percent range); the government oversees how much they can charge for ferrying power; certain reliability standards have to be met (lights have to be on) and so on. Comcast is just a monopoly without all this--it can charge whatever it wants for providing a really crummy public service.0 -
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The internet isn't free. You are paying to use it. This is news?0
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Nope sorry. I watched the Video and looked at the website though.
The fact of the matter is we will always have to put money out. Everything in this world goes up in price not down. Are you surprised that a cable company is trying to get more money?!
I would really like to hope this does not come to pass and it seems like there are MANY who are against it. I honestly don't see it happening. But I guess as always you never know.0 -
so everything should be free?
so we should pay more because some greedy corporation wants to make even more than they are making already by forcing companies like Netflix (paid subscription by the way) pay a fee, therefore raising their rates so the subscribers can watch their movies and shows in HD?
I agree. We already pay .. enough. I understand far higher
for far less than in most other countries. I find it insane
anybody would choose to keep getting jacked for no other
reason but some corp. greed.0 -
No chance.0
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As an IT Director. I see the story from both sides.
One, it is wrong to control content. Very wrong. And to charge a company for access just as a control mechanism is wrong. And there is a possibility of this happening.
But the issue with Cable based internet, is that you share the same internet pipe with all your neighbors on the same node. So if everyone streamed a Netflix HD video at the same time, well there is not enough bandwidth.
The other issue is content like Video, Music and other high bandwidth media requires a great deal of internet.
If you require everyone to be equal. Then what is to stop Netflix from locating their servers in a region where there is very little bandwidth available and paying for less bandwidth and forcing everyone to stream all that high bandwidth HD content equally. Saving Netflix a fortune.
But all things are not equal. Netflix or any company should have to pay to Peer directly with the ISPs. In a world were we now complain about something taking 10 or more seconds. Would you watch a movie if it spit or stuttered. Or even froze for a moment.
Why do you think Google/Apple/Netflix/etc all have data centers in various locations. To speed access because we do not tolerate slow any longer. So Comcast has a right to require peering. Also with a large bandwidth user peering, meaning they have a direct connection to Comcast, then Comcast's expensive external connectivity is not being used for Netflix.
Working in Africa, we had to pay $3,000 USD per MB of internet via Satellite, then fiber was made available that cost went down to $250 USD per MB. But still expensive. So I am ABC ISP and one of my subscribers wants to call his neighbor who is on XYZ ISP. If I have a connection to XYZ then I do not have to use that expensive connection. So it can be used for subscribers that want to go some other place.
Internet is not cheap. But I have to say most people in the US are paying way too much for internet.
So it is a mixed bag, a good and bad thing. And you have to see it from both sides.0 -
Not really, but a possibility if this bill goes through...
Not sure what I'm talking about? Watch john oliver explain is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU
Everyone should watch this, and I mean EVERYONE. Why? The cable companies of the USA are trying to force a bill through that will make tech companies, the providers of information on the internet, to pay a fee to have higher data speeds on the internet. Why is this bad? Well, John Oliver in the linked video explains it better than anyone else.
Also, for more information to help prevent the internet from forever being destroyed, you can go here:
https://www.battleforthenet.com/
Seriously. If you like the internet, please watch this, or places like MFP may eventually die. Even if you don't use cable or live in the USA, you will be effected by this.
What? This old chestnut again? Please do not think I am anti-US, because I'm not, but the simple truth is this.
No matter what you might like to think, the Internet is not controlled / owned / governed by America / Americans. The rest of the world have the capability to rehost sites and thus the US Internet economy would nosedive. Therefore internal US measures would only affect / impact US users.
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!0 -
Interesting discussion thanks guys :drinker:0
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so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.0 -
could be the dumbest thing i ever heard0
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so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.
quote]
Are you kidding me? charge for larger cars??? wow dude makes no sense whatsoever.0 -
Anyone who honestly thinks that the Government should be forcing their involvement into the interwebs needs to get their noggin checked out.0
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Anyone who honestly thinks that the Government should be forcing their involvement into the interwebs needs to get their noggin checked out.
They say ignorance is bliss. Remain blissful, my friend.0 -
My favorite response to net neutrality was one of the service providers that hosts the FCC website took it back to speeds from the 1990s. Apparently, they were not amused; still didn't change anything though.0
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I take it you don't drive on toll roads? The more axles you have, the more you pay. I still don't think it applies to net neutrality though.so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.
Are you kidding me? charge for larger cars??? wow dude makes no sense whatsoever.0 -
Comcast already does have data limits. If you go over you end up paying an extra fee.i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.
if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes0 -
I'm guessing if you are on a store's website there is a good chance you are going to buy something and an unlikely chance you will want to if they make you pay to enter the site so they will eat the cost and/or pay for it through advertising on their website.
Or they will just raise the prices of the items they are trying to sell...0 -
People aren't grasping the full scope of what the net neutrality issue covers. Imagine that you want to start a business. You have this amazing idea/product/service and you want to promote it on the web. Suddenly, you can't because a larger company that sells a competing idea/product/service has paid the ISP (who has a limited amount of throughput and bandwidth) for the largest chunk. Given that the smaller amount available is divided between all other customers in an area, suddenly, your target customers have a harder time getting to your business' website because the lines are choked off. The larger competitor however, has no trouble at all. It's not merely about paying for the Internet. We all pay for the Internet (unless we steal it...tricksy Hobbitses). It's about the ability of corporations and governments to essentially cut out access to information for all but the richest.
It's like if WalMart didn't merely move into an area, and subsequently, smaller stores shut down (victims of fair market capitalism, which I'm fine with for the most part), but they also paid the government* to either not allow or to make it more difficult (by restricting resource access) for any competing business to open up at all.
ETA: *or major resource management
Excellent explanation. Spot on.0 -
so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.
But what happens when one company, say RoadCast, owns all the roads in a state? They build crummy roads and only let trucks with lousy merchandise reach the grocery stores. Or they force certain merchants and producers out of business. So you pay a lot for poor quality meats and vegetables, and get poor customer service, because--where else are you going to get your groceries?. That's what's happened to cable and Comcast...
And it's why Internet cable, like roads and electric transmission lines, should largely be public utilities subject to certain rules, such as bandwith charges, the same way most of our roads are public, and the same way electric companies charge power plants for ferrying certain amounts of power over transmission lines, and so on. Bust up Comcast and allow some competition between public utilities to build the roads, and of course keep intact the healthy competition between content providers.
The only problem with this is economics. We know that it is not wise, nor feasible, to bust up, say, power companies. It is cheaper and more efficient for one power company to provide for a large area. At some point, free-market doesn't work. This is where the government comes in handy. They can dictate prices. The company, therefore, has incentive, to cut costs and be inventive in providing the service at said price. This way, there is a monopoly, but it is controlled. It's not ideal, but it's better than any other alternatives that actually work, in real life situations.
You can allow some competition, but the problem here is who owns the lines? Someone has to own all that infrastructure. Maybe it can be shared, but that's messy. Remember phone bills back in the 1980's when you'd call long distance, and have 20 different charges from all the different lines you crossed over. From a customer point of view, that's ridiculous. Then we yelled at them, so then the biggest one said, fine, we'll fix it by buying all the lines. Now everyone has the same issue, but in reverse.
What we all probably want, is not going to be feasible in any foreseeable future, IMO. What we get is going to suck for a while. But, new emerging technologies will provide work-arounds, which will spur future technologies...probably things we haven't even thought of yet, and cant even imagine.
YES, and eventually there will be NO lines. No infrastructure. We will develop technologies that simply send information through the ether.
I can't wait, I hope I get to see it happen, in this life, or the next.
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I take it you don't drive on toll roads? The more axles you have, the more you pay. I still don't think it applies to net neutrality though.so everything should be free?
Thank you for completely missing the point.
so explain it.
If I own a road and let ppl drive on it for free, but 5 people drive gigantic cars and slow everyone else down....id charge them a premium.
Are you kidding me? charge for larger cars??? wow dude makes no sense whatsoever.
Big difference here though: the vehicles driving on the toll roads are consumers. Us, who pay the ISP a fee to browse the internet are consumers. The tech companies who send the information that we browse on the internet are not consumers to the ISP.
Big difference.0 -
Comcast already does have data limits. If you go over you end up paying an extra fee.i read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.
if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes
someone mentioned that there was a 300gb data limit. if thats the limit you speak of, then boo hoo. have you ever hit the limit or known anyone who has? i coudn't hit that if i sat there for a month and tried.
still, no limit would be better.0 -
YES, and eventually there will be NO lines. No infrastructure. We will develop technologies that simply send information through the ether.
I can't wait, I hope I get to see it happen, in this life, or the next.
i dare say they will still invent some way of limiting, charging you for time/data or at least a monthly fee0 -
Yet, who elects the Senators and Congressmen?I think it's adorable that we all act like we have any say on what happens.
Large companies will figure out what will best serve their bottom line, and they'll persuade the Senators and Congressmen they pay off to vote the way they want them to.
Nobody in power gives a crap if consumers get screwed. 20,000 names on a petitions means nothing compared to a $20 million dollar campaign contribution.0 -
YES, and eventually there will be NO lines. No infrastructure. We will develop technologies that simply send information through the ether.
I can't wait, I hope I get to see it happen, in this life, or the next.
i dare say they will still invent some way of limiting, charging you for time/data or at least a monthly fee
Of course. Until "money" is eliminated, there will always be greed.0 -
YES, and eventually there will be NO lines. No infrastructure. We will develop technologies that simply send information through the ether.
I can't wait, I hope I get to see it happen, in this life, or the next.
i dare say they will still invent some way of limiting, charging you for time/data or at least a monthly fee
Of course. Until "money" is eliminated, there will always be greed.
clearly we have a trekkie here lol, or a trekker? lol0 -
YES, and eventually there will be NO lines. No infrastructure. We will develop technologies that simply send information through the ether.
I can't wait, I hope I get to see it happen, in this life, or the next.
i dare say they will still invent some way of limiting, charging you for time/data or at least a monthly fee
Of course. Until "money" is eliminated, there will always be greed.
clearly we have a trekkie here lol, or a trekker? lol
"We work to better ourselves..."
:bigsmile:0
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