An objective look at eating "exercise calories"

stroutman81

One issue that seems to be related to MFP more than any other forum I post on is the question of "to eat or not to eat" the calories one expends exercising. I'm assuming it has something to do with the logging and calculations used on MFP, which I am admittedly unfamiliar with. However, suffice it to say that I get this question in my inbox a few times each week, so it's obviously worth mentioning on the forum.

First, let it be known that there are no universally accepted rules regarding eating them back or not. The reason being is because there's no magic to it - it comes down to energy balance. Nothing more. Let me explain...

Let's try to make this real simple:

Maintenance calorie intake is where calories in = calories out, right?

We know that a calorie deficit is required if fat is to be lost, so calories in < calories out.

Large deficits can have negative effects such as increased cravings, muscle loss, irritability, unsustainability (I made that word up), etc.

So we want a moderate deficit, which I'd label as 20-35% off of your maintenance. There's latitude here, mind you.

So if your maintenance is 2000 calories, anywhere from 1300 to 1600 calories would be realistic for fat loss.

That's a deficit of 400-700 calories per day.

Said deficit, in theory, could come from a number of combinations.

On one end of the spectrum you could simply eat 400-700 calories less per day. This assumes the energy out side of the equation stays reasonably static.

On the other end of the spectrum you could keep eating 2000 calories but increase calories expended via exercise to 400-700 calories per day.

If you went with this latter scenario, you wouldn't have to eat back your exercise calories because the expended calories from exercise put you in the sweet spot, calorically speaking.

Now if you cut calories by 400-700 AND increased activity by 400-700, then you'd be running too large a deficit unless you ate back your exercise calories. I can't express how general this is, but it's something many should listen to. Obese folks, on the contrary, can run much larger deficits than thinner folks for reasons we won't get into here today. But all of these relatively thin folks who are trying to "beat their bodies into submission" by blitzing it full force with calorie deprivation and massive amounts of exercise should probably heed this advice.

In real terms, most people establish their deficits partly by cutting calories and partly by increasing activity. But for those of you wondering whether you should be eating back your calories expended exercising, you need to look at your calories in net terms. Where does your deficit stand without eating back your exercise calories?

I'll note that personally I don't worry about any of this with my own training or my clients. I set what I consider sane and productive volumes of various exercise (strength training, energy system development, conditioning for fat loss, etc.). From there, there's really not a lot of variability in energy expenditure since I know, by and large, what volume of exercise is required to drive the adaptations I'm shooting for.

Therefore, the only thing to really manipulate is calorie intake. It's a much cleaner approach but to each his own. Do what you're happy with and what makes the most sense for you.

gp79

Steve, I think you explained this in laymen's terms really well. This is why I feel it's important for every one of us to do our homework, especially when it comes to understanding BMR and determining what your BMR is. Otherwise, you'll be a slave to those 4 digits that MFP is throwing at you every day. I do eat my exercise calories and try to stay within a 500 calorie deficit, even if that means popping a few almonds at 7pm.

Another thing that I wish overweight people would understand is that the weight didn't come overnight. It was a culmination of years of poor nutrition and/or lack of activity. It takes just as much time to come off as it did going on. Anyway, that was off topic.

Good explanation.

hennyben

Like!

rockabyesarojane

you always explain things so well.

ajbeans

Awesome explanation!

hpsnickers1

Great to see a new post from you. As always you explain things simply and make complete and total sense.

I think you are my favorite trainer on this site.

I wish more of people on this site would read your posts so they can understand they won't lose 2 pounds a week with a 250 daily calorie deficit from their BMR or eating below 1000 calories per day.

meagalayne

Bump for anyone who is confused - This is a great explanation and I will be disseminating it widely :bigsmile: People need to understand how to treat their bodies with respect while trying to lose/maintain their weight. You've done an excellent job of making it clear what our bodies expect and need from us - Much better than I could have ever done!

Thanks!

jaycee76

Your threads should be sticky because they are so easy to understand and answer questions that are asked like a hundred times a day!!

lovemyhellokitty

Thanks for that great piece of info





Highest Weight: August 2005 270 lbs.
Started MFP: Jan 4, 2011 218 lbs.
First Goal: 199 **ACHIEVED Feb 13, 2011**
Second Goal: 175
Final Goal: Clueless?

leasah

Love it! Glad you posted this explanation, I always cringe a little when someone asks this question and there are tons of responses to eat all the calories. This simply does not work for everyone.
Thanks.

CaptainGordo

Well put -- exactly what I have been doing. Haven't suffered hunger, and I haven't forced myself to hit a certain calorie amount when I wasn't hungry. It's worked! 22 lbs since 1/19.

stroutman81

Steve, I think you explained this in laymen's terms really well. This is why I feel it's important for every one of us to do our homework, especially when it comes to understanding BMR and determining what your BMR is. Otherwise, you'll be a slave to those 4 digits that MFP is throwing at you every day. I do eat my exercise calories and try to stay within a 500 calorie deficit, even if that means popping a few almonds at 7pm.

Which is why I tried to outline an objective process in the "calorie calculation" thread I presented here the other day:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/172515-frantic-about-adhering-to-the-right-calorie-intake-read-t

If you apply the logic referenced in that thread, it doesn't matter if the numbers that MFP or any other online calculator spits at you are off. The process will uncover the issue and fix it. I try and get people away from the idea of worrying about exactly what their energy expenditure is since it's such an individual and variable metric. Instead, make a reasonable estimate and than follow a process similar to what I suggested above. No stress. No anxiety. No second guessing. Just be consistent, objective as possible, and honest with yourself and make changes as necessary.

In fact, part of managing expectations when it comes to calories is to expect to have to change them. Many folks have strokes about not losing weight right away - they immediately assume their bodies are broke, calories don't apply to them, or whatever. In fact, not losing is part of the process - it's to be expected - and it's easy to navigate past more often than not. When you frame it like this, it removes a lot of the frustration people tend to have.

Another thing that I wish overweight people would understand is that the weight didn't come overnight. It was a culmination of years of poor nutrition and/or lack of activity. It takes just as much time to come off as it did going on. Anyway, that was off topic.

Unfortunately we starve for instant gratification. That's the nature of our culture. So much so that it blinds our objectivity and thus make many decisions based on emotion rather than reason. It's tough.

heffs_gurl

Great Explanation!!

CarrieAbbey

Great thanks.:happy:

stroutman81

Like!

Glad!

you always explain things so well.

Well thanks. I suppose it's a product of working with such a wide array of people at my gym who don't want to hear about science and research. They just want to be told the basics of a particular topic. And frankly, it tends to be what they respond to best anyhow. Going deeper than necessary, unless it's a student of this stuff or someone who's very analytical by nature, tends to cause paralysis by analysis more than anything else.

Awesome explanation!

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

Great to see a new post from you. As always you explain things simply and make complete and total sense.

I think you are my favorite trainer on this site.

I wish more of people on this site would read your posts so they can understand they won't lose 2 pounds a week with a 250 daily calorie deficit from their BMR or eating below 1000 calories per day.

Thanks, I've been a little less busy lately so I've been trying to be a little more active here.

Bump for anyone who is confused - This is a great explanation and I will be disseminating it widely bigsmile People need to understand how to treat their bodies with respect while trying to lose/maintain their weight. You've done an excellent job of making it clear what our bodies expect and need from us - Much better than I could have ever done!

Please do disseminate it. Because the community doesn't make stickies, for the most part, a lot of stuff gets buried quickly. Especially since this place is so active, which I think is awesome! Though the "relatively lean people trying to get leaner" thread hasn't slowed down much so maybe stickies aren't necessary. What do I know, lol?

Your threads should be sticky because they are so easy to understand and answer questions that are asked like a hundred times a day!!

Well that's how I decide what to post on the forum, really. As I'm sure a lot of the professionals who post here do, I get loads of emails on MFP. It's the questions that I see time and time again that I share on the forum.

Thanks for that great piece of info

You're welcome.

Love it! Glad you posted this explanation, I always cringe a little when someone asks this question and there are tons of responses to eat all the calories. This simply does not work for everyone.
Thanks.

As I said elsewhere today, when it comes to this stuff, the only absolute is that there are no absolutes!

Well put -- exactly what I have been doing. Haven't suffered hunger, and I haven't forced myself to hit a certain calorie amount when I wasn't hungry. It's worked! 22 lbs since 1/19.

Congrats man! That's awesome.

And yea, hunger is something else I've been meaning to write about here. While calories certainly play a role, there are other "tricks of the trade" that can help out with hunger. Put differently, calories matter a lot, but they're not the only thing. The foods that comprise those calories are vitally important as well not only from a physique/performance standpoint, but also from a hunger standpoint.

treena99

Thank you so much for this wonderful explanation!

CaptainGordo

And yea, hunger is something else I've been meaning to write about here. While calories certainly play a role, there are other "tricks of the trade" that can help out with hunger. Put differently, calories matter a lot, but they're not the only thing. The foods that comprise those calories are vitally important as well not only from a physique/performance standpoint, but also from a hunger standpoint.

MFP has been very helpful in helping me discover foods that can satisfy my hunger and meet my nutritional needs, without racking up the calories.

mistawalka

Just to add another spin to the eating of excercise calories and why I think we should not eat ALL of them back...

BMR etc says we burn a certain amount of calories just staying alive. When we exercise MFP/tables/Heart rate monitors tell us we have burnt a certain amount of calories for a specific exercise time. But they don't allow for the fact we would have burnt some of those calories just 'existing'

EG

Using some simple numbers for calcs - say we have a BMR+Activity level requiring 2400 calories per day, we would burn on average 100 calories an hour just living. If we did moderate excercise for an hour that a HRM said burnt 300 calories - we should eat back no more than 200 of those, as base 'living' calories for the hour are already accounted for in BMR etc.

ngoat

bump

meagalayne

Just to add another spin to the eating of excercise calories and why I think we should not eat ALL of them back...

BMR etc says we burn a certain amount of calories just staying alive. When we exercise MFP/tables/Heart rate monitors tell us we have burnt a certain amount of calories for a specific exercise time. But they don't allow for the fact we would have burnt some of those calories just 'existing'

EG

Using some simple numbers for calcs - say we have a BMR+Activity level requiring 2400 calories per day, we would burn on average 100 calories an hour just living. If we did moderate excercise for an hour that a HRM said burnt 300 calories - we should eat back no more than 200 of those, as base 'living' calories for the hour are already accounted for in BMR etc.

I use a HRM to calculate my burn when I run and I always subtract my maintenance calories for the time elapsed during exercise...

Eg.
I run for 60 mins and my HRM says I burn 650 calories.
My maintenance cals are around 1712 for the day (24hours).

1712 divided by 24 hours, divided by 60 minutes = 1.189

1.189 X 60 mins of exercise = 71.33

650 calories burned - 71.33 = 578.67 calories burned

This is what I would log in my exercise diary, and what I would aim to eat back throughout the day. This method has been successful for me over my maintenance period - just requires a little extra math on my part. Hope this makes sense!

-Meag

stroutman81

Just to add another spin to the eating of excercise calories and why I think we should not eat ALL of them back...

BMR etc says we burn a certain amount of calories just staying alive. When we exercise MFP/tables/Heart rate monitors tell us we have burnt a certain amount of calories for a specific exercise time. But they don't allow for the fact we would have burnt some of those calories just 'existing'

EG

Using some simple numbers for calcs - say we have a BMR+Activity level requiring 2400 calories per day, we would burn on average 100 calories an hour just living. If we did moderate excercise for an hour that a HRM said burnt 300 calories - we should eat back no more than 200 of those, as base 'living' calories for the hour are already accounted for in BMR etc.

If I cared enough about my own expenditures enough to worry about calculating them each day, I would worry about net calories expended while exercising. Not gross, which includes BMR. I assume many folks around here do that.

stroutman81

And to show why I don't care enough... I think it's a lot of hair splitting. I mean, we can say:

Total calorie needs = BMR + TEF + SPA + TEA

BMR = basal metabolic rate

TEF = thermic effect of food

SPA = spontaneous physical activity

TEA = thermic effect of activity

To really normalize the data of how much energy was spent fueling a given exercise, you'd need to net out every other component of metabolism, not just BMR. Not to mention that we're dealing with a lot of estimates here to begin with which makes worrying about stuff on the granular level even less worthwhile if you ask me.

But I'm a contrarian who values simplicity so of course my views are biased to that.

Flacachica

Thanks for explaining this. I get it.

This might be TMI, but I also have "breastfeeding" to calculate in the mix. I hadn't been adding calories back in for that, but I've been losing at a safe rate (1 lbs per week). Not sure I even need to... So, everyone's situation is different.

finncmh

thanks for posting! hope more people read this- going to spread the word around as well!!!!

stroutman81

You're welcome. Thanks for tuning in everyone.

meagalayne

To really normalize the data of how much energy was spent fueling a given exercise, you'd need to net out every other component of metabolism, not just BMR. Not to mention that we're dealing with a lot of estimates here to begin with which makes worrying about stuff on the granular level even less worthwhile if you ask me.

Exactly. I do it out of habit, because it takes me a mere 5 seconds, and I'm a neurotic number cruncher, but 30-60 calories here and there when you are talking about 1800 over the course of a day, or burning 1000+ running 10 miles, makes very little difference. It just won't break the bank. No one measures every single gram of food they put into their mouth and any food that is even slightly processed will have only an approximate nutritional value, as is. So splitting hairs about a few calories here or there is really futile in the grand old scheme of things. Added stress with little to no pay off!

bangarangbree

Bump.

stroutman81

Exactly. I do it out of habit, because it takes me a mere 5 seconds, and I'm a neurotic number cruncher, but 30-60 calories here and there when you are talking about 1800 over the course of a day, or burning 1000+ running 10 miles, makes very little difference. It just won't break the bank. No one measures every single gram of food they put into their mouth and any food that is even slightly processed will have only an approximate nutritional value, as is. So splitting hairs about a few calories here or there is really futile in the grand old scheme of things. Added stress with little to no pay off!

And you bring up an excellent point about added stress. I'm sure this will come across as overly blunt but it seems many dieters today go bat crap crazy about this stuff. They only see things in binary terms - particular foods are either healthy or horrible, their behavior is either good or bad, they're either successful or they failed, etc, etc. And all this sort of reasoning and perspective does is ramp up anxiety like crazy.

People are flipping out over 10 calories. And ya know what? I think it hurts them.

The stress response they're generating by being as anal retentive and psychotic as they are bites them in the *kitten*. Which is why I always recommend people read the book written by Robert Sapolsky called "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers." He's a great author and a genius when it comes to the stress response of the body. Humans unfortunately can work themselves up into such a psychological mess about the future by thinking about catastrophic thoughts and building psychological hurdles that are simply impossible to clear and thus, our biology that's really in place to keep us alive winds up going in overdrive in chronic terms.

Like I've said in numerous places on this forum now - our ability to manage stress is finite. In our body's mind, stress is stress have it be psychological, physical, real, imagined, etc. And when you've relatively small people eating like birds, doing copious amounts of exercise, stressing about work and family which is typical in this culture, and then topping it off with psychotic analysis and concern over diet and exercise - well - things tend to get messed up.

It's no wonder people are constantly stalling out, really. Granted, I believe more often than not it's a miscalculation on energy intake and expenditure, but still, this is very real.

Fat loss, sex drive, immune function, you name it and chronic stress will affect it, usually negatively.

People just need to relax, set realistic expectations, avoid perfectionism, and be patient.

meagalayne

^^ Wonderful advice. And I think I'll take a dose of it myself!

Yoga tonight to DE-STRESS! hahaha

stormieweather

Just a comment to the non-expert people reading this...BMR is not maintenance. Maintenance is your daily acitivity + BMR . So the deficit Steve is talking about should come from your maintenance, not your BMR.

To find out what MFP is calculating your maintenance to be, go to Home > Goals > and on the right side you will see Calories Burned from Normal Daily Activity. That is MFP's calculated maintenance based on your BMR, activity level, gender, and age. This page also shows what your daily deficit is based on the goals you entered to MFP. The idea here (on this site) is to keep that deficit steady, thus the program adds back the exercise burned calories..

Mindful_Trent

Great summary of the whole Exercise Calorie issue.

Just a comment to the non-expert people reading this...BMR is not maintenance. Maintenance is your daily acitivity + BMR . So the deficit Steve is talking about should come from your maintenance, not your BMR.

To find out what MFP is calculating your maintenance to be, go to Home > Goals > and on the right side you will see Calories Burned from Normal Daily Activity. That is MFP's calculated maintenance based on your BMR, activity level, gender, and age. This page also shows what your daily deficit is based on the goals you entered to MFP. The idea here (on this site) is to keep that deficit steady, thus the program adds back the exercise burned calories..

Stormie - great follow-up, too!