An objective look at eating "exercise calories"

autumn13

So glad we are friends...Well said!

locomotion

great post! :flowerforyou:

tryinghard2012

Thanks Steve!

stroutman81

Thanks for keeping this thread bumped guys. I still see a lot of confusion about this topic... too bad this thread can't be stickied..

EmpressOfJudgment

You always deserved to be stickied. Uh wait, that came out all wrong. Well, you know what I mean.

Lyadeia

One issue that seems to be related to MFP more than any other forum I post on is the question of "to eat or not to eat" the calories one expends exercising. I'm assuming it has something to do with the logging and calculations used on MFP, which I am admittedly unfamiliar with. However, suffice it to say that I get this question in my inbox a few times each week, so it's obviously worth mentioning on the forum.

First, let it be known that there are no universally accepted rules regarding eating them back or not. The reason being is because there's no magic to it - it comes down to energy balance. Nothing more. Let me explain...

Let's try to make this real simple:

Maintenance calorie intake is where calories in = calories out, right?

We know that a calorie deficit is required if fat is to be lost, so calories in < calories out.

Large deficits can have negative effects such as increased cravings, muscle loss, irritability, unsustainability (I made that word up), etc.

So we want a moderate deficit, which I'd label as 20-35% off of your maintenance. There's latitude here, mind you.

So if your maintenance is 2000 calories, anywhere from 1300 to 1600 calories would be realistic for fat loss.

That's a deficit of 400-700 calories per day.

Said deficit, in theory, could come from a number of combinations.

On one end of the spectrum you could simply eat 400-700 calories less per day. This assumes the energy out side of the equation stays reasonably static.

On the other end of the spectrum you could keep eating 2000 calories but increase calories expended via exercise to 400-700 calories per day.

If you went with this latter scenario, you wouldn't have to eat back your exercise calories because the expended calories from exercise put you in the sweet spot, calorically speaking.

Now if you cut calories by 400-700 AND increased activity by 400-700, then you'd be running too large a deficit unless you ate back your exercise calories. I can't express how general this is, but it's something many should listen to. Obese folks, on the contrary, can run much larger deficits than thinner folks for reasons we won't get into here today. But all of these relatively thin folks who are trying to "beat their bodies into submission" by blitzing it full force with calorie deprivation and massive amounts of exercise should probably heed this advice.

In real terms, most people establish their deficits partly by cutting calories and partly by increasing activity. But for those of you wondering whether you should be eating back your calories expended exercising, you need to look at your calories in net terms. Where does your deficit stand without eating back your exercise calories?

I'll note that personally I don't worry about any of this with my own training or my clients. I set what I consider sane and productive volumes of various exercise (strength training, energy system development, conditioning for fat loss, etc.). From there, there's really not a lot of variability in energy expenditure since I know, by and large, what volume of exercise is required to drive the adaptations I'm shooting for.

Therefore, the only thing to really manipulate is calorie intake. It's a much cleaner approach but to each his own. Do what you're happy with and what makes the most sense for you.

There are too many posts in this thread to read through them all right now, but I did want to respond to original post.

Before MFP, I was aiming for a specific calorie goal regardless of exercise calories and losing weight doing it. I had never heard of "eating back exercise calories" until coming to this website!

When I joined, I used the MFP calculations which turned out to be really, really OFF for me. First of all, my BMR is 1350 and MFP said I should eat 1200. You shouldn't EVER eat below your BMR. So, I already had to "eat back my exercise calories" just to be healthy and normal.

I struggled with the calories because of the above issue and was confused as to what to do. And then I discovered that if I eat between 1450-1575 calories per day, guess what happens? I lose weight AND I have butt loads of energy and feel great.

So I re-entered my goals here on MFP to put the calorie goal at 1575. I don't try real hard to get there, because that is my MAX amount that I allow myself. I do NOT enter my exercise into MFP, because that messes up the macro ratios automatically. I need to take in at least 138 g of protein per day for my goals. But adding in exercise calories makes my goal go up which is just weird, to say the least. I simply type my workouts in the notes section under the diary for food and deal with the fact that people can't tell me "good job" for logging exercise.

And now I am losing weight and inches without sacrificing muscle, and I no longer stress out about "eating exercise calories."

Just my .02 cents.

ladyhawk00

There are too many posts in this thread to read through them all right now, but I did want to respond to original post.

Before MFP, I was aiming for a specific calorie goal regardless of exercise calories and losing weight doing it. I had never heard of "eating back exercise calories" until coming to this website!

When I joined, I used the MFP calculations which turned out to be really, really OFF for me. First of all, my BMR is 1350 and MFP said I should eat 1200. You shouldn't EVER eat below your BMR. So, I already had to "eat back my exercise calories" just to be healthy and normal.

I struggled with the calories because of the above issue and was confused as to what to do. And then I discovered that if I eat between 1450-1575 calories per day, guess what happens? I lose weight AND I have butt loads of energy and feel great.

So I re-entered my goals here on MFP to put the calorie goal at 1575. I don't try real hard to get there, because that is my MAX amount that I allow myself. I do NOT enter my exercise into MFP, because that messes up the macro ratios automatically. I need to take in at least 138 g of protein per day for my goals. But adding in exercise calories makes my goal go up which is just weird, to say the least. I simply type my workouts in the notes section under the diary for food and deal with the fact that people can't tell me "good job" for logging exercise.

And now I am losing weight and inches without sacrificing muscle, and I no longer stress out about "eating exercise calories."

Just my .02 cents.

What was your loss per week goal at 1200? With as little as you have (or had) to lose, it shouldn't have been more than 1/2 lb per week, which should have put it over 1200 once activity level is factored in. Your BMR may be 1350, but of course that doesn't include activity level. It sounds like your loss goal may have been set too high.

MFP is great, but (as Banks says) it's a "dumb" tool - even if you shouldn't be trying to lose 2 lbs per week, it will try to get you there, with the exception of not taking you below 1200.

MFP increases macro goals when you log exercise because it adds cals for that exercise - and those cals are expressed as protein/fat/carbs - they have to be one of those, right? So when you increase cals, it's just allocating where those extra cals should come from as a percentage.

thumper44

Bump.
Thanks Steve. Great information in this thread.

Lyadeia

There are too many posts in this thread to read through them all right now, but I did want to respond to original post.

Before MFP, I was aiming for a specific calorie goal regardless of exercise calories and losing weight doing it. I had never heard of "eating back exercise calories" until coming to this website!

When I joined, I used the MFP calculations which turned out to be really, really OFF for me. First of all, my BMR is 1350 and MFP said I should eat 1200. You shouldn't EVER eat below your BMR. So, I already had to "eat back my exercise calories" just to be healthy and normal.

I struggled with the calories because of the above issue and was confused as to what to do. And then I discovered that if I eat between 1450-1575 calories per day, guess what happens? I lose weight AND I have butt loads of energy and feel great.

So I re-entered my goals here on MFP to put the calorie goal at 1575. I don't try real hard to get there, because that is my MAX amount that I allow myself. I do NOT enter my exercise into MFP, because that messes up the macro ratios automatically. I need to take in at least 138 g of protein per day for my goals. But adding in exercise calories makes my goal go up which is just weird, to say the least. I simply type my workouts in the notes section under the diary for food and deal with the fact that people can't tell me "good job" for logging exercise.

And now I am losing weight and inches without sacrificing muscle, and I no longer stress out about "eating exercise calories."

Just my .02 cents.

What was your loss per week goal at 1200? With as little as you have (or had) to lose, it shouldn't have been more than 1/2 lb per week, which should have put it over 1200 once activity level is factored in. Your BMR may be 1350, but of course that doesn't include activity level. It sounds like your loss goal may have been set too high.

MFP is great, but (as Banks says) it's a "dumb" tool - even if you shouldn't be trying to lose 2 lbs per week, it will try to get you there, with the exception of not taking you below 1200.

MFP increases macro goals when you log exercise because it adds cals for that exercise - and those cals are expressed as protein/fat/carbs - they have to be one of those, right? So when you increase cals, it's just allocating where those extra cals should come from as a percentage.

I wasn't losing anything at all at 1200. I was hungry all the time and binged often because I was starving myself and didn't know it. I had my goal set at half a pound per week.

I started out at 191 pounds. Every time I saw any kind of loss since then, I was eating between 1450-1575 calories which is what I went back to this year after I came to a complete stop following MFP's advice.

ladyhawk00

I wasn't losing anything at all at 1200. I was hungry all the time and binged often because I was starving myself and didn't know it. I had my goal set at half a pound per week.

I started out at 191 pounds. Every time I saw any kind of loss since then, I was eating between 1450-1575 calories which is what I went back to this year after I came to a complete stop following MFP's advice.

In that case it sounds like your activity level setting was off. I say this because if your BMR is 1350, and you add in activity level of sedentary, that adds at least another 150-200, which could leave you at 1200. But from what I've seen you say on other posts, you're not sedentary. And if you had activity level higher than sedentary, then MFP shouldn't have you at 1200 with 1/2 loss goal. Not that MFP can't be "wrong" - but it does work with averages and estimates, so if you fall outside the curve, the numbers may need to be tweaked.

One thing I would say, though, is that if you aren't logging exercise and aren't eating extra on those days (which from other posts I've seen you're a PT? - lots of exercise?), then you probably still aren't eating enough at ~1500 cals. Just a thought.

Lyadeia

When I do my PT work or group ex. work that IS my exercise. I don't do more on top of that. When I don't do those things, then I exercise for myself. My HRM normally reads an average of 400 or so, which is technically lower than that if you factor out the calories I would have burned anyway due to BMR.

Other than my exercise, I actually am sedentary. At home I play video games and watch movies. At work I sit in a car all night long waiting for someone to break the law which in my area of the city, isn't that often. (Which I thank God for...I don't make enough money to be shot at!)

stroutman81

You always deserved to be stickied. Uh wait, that came out all wrong. Well, you know what I mean.

Ohhhh, now that's all sorts of naughty!

lol

samcee

Oh this is really interesting, can someone help me work out my magic number??

I'm 5'2 and weight 128. I'm trying to lose 10 pounds at the moment and doing the 30 day shred exercise 20 minutes everyday.

The BMR calculator says 1264 calories. So 25% off that is 948 which is the safe deficit?

So is 948 my number that I need in order to lose weight? If I exercise and lose more weight than this than I'll have to eat back those calories in order to maintain 948? Is this correct?

Mindful_Trent

Oh this is really interesting, can someone help me work out my magic number??

I'm 5'2 and weight 128. I'm trying to lose 10 pounds at the moment and doing the 30 day shred exercise 20 minutes everyday.

The BMR calculator says 1264 calories. So 25% off that is 948 which is the safe deficit?

So is 948 my number that I need in order to lose weight? If I exercise and lose more weight than this than I'll have to eat back those calories in order to maintain 948? Is this correct?

'
You want to use your MAINTENANCE calories - NOT your BMR for this calculation. BMR is what you burn lying in bed doing absolutely nothing all day (if you were in a coma). You burn more calories than that by getting up, brushing your teeth, etc. Go to your goals page - you should see a "Normal Daily Calories Burned" number on the top right hand side. That is MFP's estimate of your maintenance calories, based on your height/weight/age/gender and normal daily activity level.

samcee

Oh thanks accountant_boi. This is what it says in my goal page. So I should eat 1,200 cals a day? And if I lose calories from exercise I should eat them back to maintain 1,200?


YOUR DIET PROFILE TARGET
Calories Burned
From Normal Daily Activity 1,570 calories/day
Net Calories Consumed*
Your Daily Goal 1,200 calories/ day
Daily Calorie Deficit 370 calories
Projected Weight Loss 0.7 lbs/ week


NUTRITIONAL GOALS
Net Calories Consumed* / Day 1,200 calories/day
Carbs / Day 165 g
Fat / Day 40 g
Protein / Day 45 g

FITNESS GOALS
Calories Burned / Week 430 calories/week
Workouts / Week 3 Workouts
Minutes / Workout 30 mins

Mindful_Trent

Oh thanks accountant_boi. This is what it says in my goal page. So I should eat 1,200 cals a day? And if I lose calories from exercise I should eat them back to maintain 1,200?

YOUR DIET PROFILE TARGET
Calories Burned
From Normal Daily Activity 1,570 calories/day
Net Calories Consumed*
Your Daily Goal 1,200 calories/ day
Daily Calorie Deficit 370 calories
Projected Weight Loss 0.7 lbs/ week

Right - so the first thing you have to remember, is you don't have much to lose. Because of that, you can't expect to lose too quickly. It's simply not as safe for someone without much to lose to aim for a higher deficit. Personally, I'd suggest you drop your goal down to 1/2 lb per week, which would give you a 250 calorie deficit and allow you to eat 1320 calories per day (plus exercise calories). I certainly wouldn't suggest you go any lower than 1200 + exercise - this gives you a deficit of 370 cal/day, for 0.7 pounds lost per week.

Keep in mind - it's VERY easy to overestimate exercise calories. Because it's easy to overestimate exercise calories, I highly recommend you use a HRM or Bodybugg type device, rather than gym machines or MFP to get your estimates, if possible. Even then, you may want to only eat back 50-75% to allow some room for error.

In theory, if you knew exactly how much you were burning, you could eat back 100% of exercise calories (since the deficit is already built in), and as long as you stuck to the plan, you would lose weight, but with such a small deficit (either the 370 above or the 250 I recommended) - you don't have a lot of room for error, and this isn't an exact science. Even though MFP estimates you burn 1570/day - some days you may burn a little more, some a little less. All of these are just estimates. There really is no "magic number".

kdiamond

Keep in mind - it's VERY easy to overestimate exercise calories. Because it's easy to overestimate exercise calories, I highly recommend you use a HRM or Bodybugg type device, rather than gym machines or MFP to get your estimates, if possible. Even then, you may want to only eat back 50-75% to allow some room for error.

In theory, if you knew exactly how much you were burning, you could eat back 100% of exercise calories (since the deficit is already built in), and as long as you stuck to the plan, you would lose weight, but with such a small deficit (either the 370 above or the 250 I recommended) - you don't have a lot of room for error, and this isn't an exact science. Even though MFP estimates you burn 1570/day - some days you may burn a little more, some a little less. All of these are just estimates. There really is no "magic number".

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

I cannot stress how much I have to say this to people!!! Unless you are wearing the BodyBugg for 30 days straight, you will never actually know your maintenance/weight loss numbers for sure. That is why underestimating is always best for trying to lose weight. It took me months of playing around with different calorie amounts (especially since I do very intensive workouts) to find my true maintenance and figure out where I could stop losing/gaining weight on. Its definitely a constant work in progress!

samcee

Oooh thank you so much accountant_boi! You are very helpful!!

Right, I'll follow your advice. It's a bit hard because I was losing a lot of weight in the beginning but it has slowed down an awful lot and I'm still trying to get my head around eating more calories. These past few days I've been eating 1000 calories and exercising so it takes me down to around 700- 800 calories. I don't think thats a good sign. I'll try this method so fingers crossed!

jbuffan218

Saving to my topics

ladyhawk00

Bump