If you think you gained muscle... Read this.

chrisdavey

another great thread mate

ColoradoRobin

It was my understanding that after lifting heavy weights you can see a gain in body weight due to minor (microscopic almost) inflammation and the restocking of glycogen in the muscles that were depleted. It's not new muscle unfortunately, but it's not fat, so it's no need to worry.

Janet39

Love this post

JeninBelgium

So, all of this should lead you to multiple logical conclusions. First, muscle mass is not the same thing as muscle size, i.e. a person can have visibly smaller but denser muscles and be stronger than someone with visibly larger muscles. This means that if you are trying to get strong and doing a bodybuilding routine, you are going nowhere fast. Secondly, but most importantly, you CANNOT gain muscle by accident! 5lb aerobic dumbbells will net you zero muscle mass gain, likewise walking, jogging, yoga, Pilates, etc… will net you zero muscle MASS gain. What you will gain is an increase in muscle fiber recruitment, which will result in some strength gains, but this should not be confused with muscle gains; they are two completely different things.

Gaining muscle mass is a hard and long process. In the BEST of conditions, the average male could gain approximately 3-5lbs of muscle in one month, and women will be lower than this around 1-2lbs. However these are the upper bounds, most people will fall well below these numbers. Males should expect no more than 1-2lbs of muscle mass per month and women no more than ½ to 1lb per month.

FOr the walking/jogging /running thing- I wonder if this is strictly true or just a guideline - follow me a bit on this one- I started out as sedentary but now am walking up to 25 miles per week- I am much more muscle-y than before- I realize that this is partially due to fat loss and increased visibility of my muscles and also muscle fiber recruitment but I think I have also gained some muscle- which is logical I should think when you consider I am hauling my nearly 300lb backside around quite a distance- I already have a lot of obligatory muscle (one has to in order to propel this much weight) but I think that I have added more- and no I am not talking 10s of pounds- but having seen what a pound of muscle looks like I am thinking 1/2 to 3/4 pound per leg and I bit in my arms too (I am amazed and how muscle- y my arms seem since starting my long distance walks) - I would not expect this increase to continue at the same rate but I do nkow that I am stronger and suspect more muscled than before

End6ame

So I thought I understood this, and then all the responses started to confuse me.

I'm not aiming for big muscles, I'm aiming for not flappy muscles. I'm slowly starting to move over to the free weight section. My weight is fairly low, 10-15 on arms, quite a bit heavier on legs, 30-40. 2 reps of 12, or until I have a hard time with the last rep.

It's working for me, grandma arms are down 2 inches. Now, I've never gained weight (from that) as the measurements show. While weight loss is not apparent scale-wise, in total I'm down 8 inches and a size. I have a feeling this is where the "it's muscle mass" comes from.

So are you saying that what I do isn't really effective? Cause I lost the thread meaning around page 4.

as the guy said..in cases of obesity you can gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. but after a while it'll slack off and stop as your body fat lowers. thats why a lot of body builders 'bulk' and 'cut' in the old school manner. and bigger muscles wont make you less flabby..less fat will make you less flabby..you cant 'tone' or 'harden' muscles..they are what they are..you only seem squishy because of the large layer of fat overlying those muscles..thats why dont feel hard or 'toned'. i hate that word toned. its misleading

Spot on.

End6ame

It was my understanding that after lifting heavy weights you can see a gain in body weight due to minor (microscopic almost) inflammation and the restocking of glycogen in the muscles that were depleted. It's not new muscle unfortunately, but it's not fat, so it's no need to worry.

Yes, after lifting your muscles will store more water and glycogen as part of the recovery process which will minimally (1-2 lbs) increase your body weight, but as you said, this is not fat or muscle gain. This is one of the many reasons why body weight is a misleading metric to gauge progress.

jenniferg83

Thanks for the info, good to know!!!

Mads1997

I have just had a bio-impedence test done andin one month I lost 2.8kg in fat and gained 200 gms lean weight so that would suggest that it surely is possible to gain lean weight while calorie deficit.

End6ame

So, all of this should lead you to multiple logical conclusions. First, muscle mass is not the same thing as muscle size, i.e. a person can have visibly smaller but denser muscles and be stronger than someone with visibly larger muscles. This means that if you are trying to get strong and doing a bodybuilding routine, you are going nowhere fast. Secondly, but most importantly, you CANNOT gain muscle by accident! 5lb aerobic dumbbells will net you zero muscle mass gain, likewise walking, jogging, yoga, Pilates, etc… will net you zero muscle MASS gain. What you will gain is an increase in muscle fiber recruitment, which will result in some strength gains, but this should not be confused with muscle gains; they are two completely different things.

Gaining muscle mass is a hard and long process. In the BEST of conditions, the average male could gain approximately 3-5lbs of muscle in one month, and women will be lower than this around 1-2lbs. However these are the upper bounds, most people will fall well below these numbers. Males should expect no more than 1-2lbs of muscle mass per month and women no more than ½ to 1lb per month.

FOr the walking/jogging /running thing- I wonder if this is strictly true or just a guideline - follow me a bit on this one- I started out as sedentary but now am walking up to 25 miles per week- I am much more muscle-y than before- I realize that this is partially due to fat loss and increased visibility of my muscles and also muscle fiber recruitment but I think I have also gained some muscle- which is logical I should think when you consider I am hauling my nearly 300lb backside around quite a distance- I already have a lot of obligatory muscle (one has to in order to propel this much weight) but I think that I have added more- and no I am not talking 10s of pounds- but having seen what a pound of muscle looks like I am thinking 1/2 to 3/4 pound per leg and I bit in my arms too (I am amazed and how muscle- y my arms seem since starting my long distance walks) - I would not expect this increase to continue at the same rate but I do nkow that I am stronger and suspect more muscled than before

I suppose it is possible that you may have gained some muscle (likely less than 1 lb). The most likely cause for this feeling of muscle gain is just what you have already stated; fat loss and muscle fiber recruitment. Many people mistake muscle fiber recruitment as muscle gain because of the feelings that it can cause. You will get a more noticeable feeling out of contracting your muscles than you did before, this is evident when people say things like “ I can feel muscles that I never knew I had.” Also muscle more muscle fibers are active, your muscle will likely feel denser/harder. Additionally, high rep and endurance type exercises will increase the sarcoplasmic fluid in your muscles giving them more of a full/pumped look. And finally the activation of additional muscle fibers does increase your strength, but once you get to around 90% muscle fiber activation (not something you will measure, the numbers are just for illustration) activating the remaining fibers and building additional muscle becomes the hard part and will take significant deliberate work.

nikkionamission

I'm coming back to this post later...

End6ame

I have just had a bio-impedence test done andin one month I lost 2.8kg in fat and gained 200 gms lean weight so that would suggest that it surely is possible to gain lean weight while calorie deficit.

Are you obese? Because I stated that this is possible with higher body fat percentages, in fact, I took advantage of this ability myself and gained about 1lb of muscle per month on a calorie deficit. Secondly, bioimpedence devices are subject to a large margin of error because of the various amounts of liquid that may be in your body at any given time. The best (still with margins of error) methods to measure your body fat are a caliper and/or tape measure and their associated formulas.

sophjakesmom

Important information to get out there. I think we try to look for excuses to make each other feel better and we are really hurting each other rather than helping. I would prefer that someone tell me to take a look at my diary and really see if there is someplace I needed to be more honest with myself. Perhaps I am eating too much or too little. Or maybe I had too much sodium for the week. If we look hard, we can usually figure it out. Keep speaking the truth, regardless of how unpopular it may be.

claire_b79

Very good info...thanks for sharing!

MiNiMoNkI

i wish i understood all this, duhhhh!, sounds interesting but im not the brightest tool in the box!

jdix000

Thank you! I hate it when people think that a lb of muscle weighs more than a lb of fat.

It does, because muscle is denser than fat.

I agree with everything you posted, except for the above statement that 1lb of Muscle weighs more than 1lb of Fat. That statment is impossible. 1 lb of any substance cannot weigh more than 1 lb of another substance. You are talking density and volume. it takes less muscle by volume to weigh 1 lb. but 1lb = 1lb

End6ame

Thank you! I hate it when people think that a lb of muscle weighs more than a lb of fat.

It does, because muscle is denser than fat.

I agree with everything you posted, except for the above statement that 1lb of Muscle weighs more than 1lb of Fat. That statment is impossible. 1 lb of any substance cannot weigh more than 1 lb of another substance. You are talking density and volume. it takes less muscle by volume to weigh 1 lb. but 1lb = 1lb

I addressed this already; I misread... my bad.

Matiara

I went from understanding to confusion as well. I'm 5'11" and around 170 (female), so I'm not that far out of the weight range for my height, though I'm happiest in the 150s. I'm naturally lean, but when slack off and do the couch potato thing, my body gains fat, especially around my middle. Doing body weight exercises and circuits with light weights gets the results that I want, so that's what I do. It's not a fear of lifting heavy.

From what I (thought) I understand from the thread, my body is losing fat, but the muscle "tone" that I have was always there and just under the fat? And that I can lift and carry everyday items up to 100 pounds is just my natural strength and not a result of anything that I'm doing? I mean, I can live with losing fat and being She-Ra (what my family calls me), but I just want to be clear.

End6ame

I went from understanding to confusion as well. I'm 5'11" and around 170 (female), so I'm not that far out of the weight range for my height, though I'm happiest in the 150s. I'm naturally lean, but when slack off and do the couch potato thing, my body gains fat, especially around my middle. Doing body weight exercises and circuits with light weights gets the results that I want, so that's what I do. It's not a fear of lifting heavy.

From what I (thought) I understand from the thread, my body is losing fat, but the muscle "tone" that I have was always there and just under the fat? And that I can lift and carry everyday items up to 100 pounds is just my natural strength and not a result of anything that I'm doing? I mean, I can live with losing fat and being She-Ra (what my family calls me), but I just want to be clear.

You are understanding correctly. Your muscles that you see have always been there and you have likely seen some increases in muscle size (increase in sarcoplasmic fluid) and some strength, but you have probably not had much if any muscle mass gains. 

deadmittens

Thanks Debbie Downer. lol jk


kind of. :grumble:

Matiara

Thanks. It really clears up a lot for me.

I've been puzzled when I would read threads about weight and strength training and see the comments about how unless someone lifts heavy, they will have spaghetti arms and be "skinny fat" and I would start thinking that I was hallucinating my muscle definition and strength. So it turns out that I have the DNA fairy (and the body weight exercises) to thank for those two things. It makes me wonder what kind of scary strength I could gain doing a real strength training regime.

I've been thinking of moving up lately. The 5 lb weights are just so light to me now. I was doing some compound movements with them a few days ago and felt like I was flinging feathers.

yummy♥

adding to my topics to read tonight

Angela_MA

bump

atabt

bump

TrophyWifeSass

Sooooo much info...so late...sleepy...must come back...and yawn, read...tomorrow...thanks...and night...yawn...

MechM

love this thread !

TAWoody

I'm going to have to keep this window open at work and read it tomorrow when I'm more awake. Looks like good stuff.

krizstyling

One of the best threads I've ever read. Nothing annoys me more, except maybe when people use the word "tone" all wrong.

I agree witht he above poster who stated sometimes when we are trying to help others or encourage them, we truly are hindering them. ESP when we think we know what we are talking about and the facts are ALL WRONG.

Azdak

I have just had a bio-impedence test done andin one month I lost 2.8kg in fat and gained 200 gms lean weight so that would suggest that it surely is possible to gain lean weight while calorie deficit.

Are you obese? Because I stated that this is possible with higher body fat percentages, in fact, I took advantage of this ability myself and gained about 1lb of muscle per month on a calorie deficit. Secondly, bioimpedence devices are subject to a large margin of error because of the various amounts of liquid that may be in your body at any given time. The best (still with margins of error) methods to measure your body fat are a caliper and/or tape measure and their associated formulas.

Not to mention that bioimpedance does not and cannot measure "muscle". What it proposes to distinguish is the difference between "fat" and "not fat", but it cannot analyze what the "non fat" is.

And there is no bioimpedance device in existence that can accurately measure changes as small as 200 grams.

And I would say about calipers and tape measures: they are perhaps the most accurate way to detect changes in body composition, but I would not go so far as to say they were the best methods to measure body fat %. (I.e. might be excellent at capturing a true change in skinfold thickness, but not the best at determining whether that thickness represents "X%" body fat).

adrienc

thanks for posting this and your detailed explanation - very instructive!

kdiamond

One of the best threads I've ever read. Nothing annoys me more, except maybe when people use the word "tone" all wrong.

I agree witht he above poster who stated sometimes when we are trying to help others or encourage them, we truly are hindering them. ESP when we think we know what we are talking about and the facts are ALL WRONG.

AGREE!! I also hate the word tone!! It doesn't mean anything!

I also agree it is so freakin frustrating when people say muscle weighs more than fat...I want to scream...and then I want to say "Its because you're eating too much!" but I know that doesn't help a thing either.

It is just irritating and incorrect information to boot!