Loose dogs while jogging
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I think I would trust Backinthenines' dog, at least from my experience with dogs around here. The dog is trained and never leaves her side. Dogs on leads, usually, are somewhere behind, to the side, to the front of their person and if something spooks them into becoming aggressive, I think the owner is less likely to get into control of their dog. I don't know about the rest of you but retractable leads are a pain in the backside to get your dog back quickly if something frightens them.0
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Its a case of ban the breed not the dee in my opinion I am a 'Bullie Breed' lover always have had rescue Staffie's and always will!0
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I'm of the belief that it is the person, not the dog, who should be held accountable for the dog's actions. Breed Banning is a load of hogwash, imho.0
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. And the dogs owners always either laugh about it or blame my children for shrieking and "provoking it", when they are terrified. None dog owners do not want your dog running up and drooling on, licking, sniffing, jumping up on, chasing or biting us. And it is your responsibility as an owner that that doesn't happen, and yet I can't think of a single dog owner who appreciates that.
That is a bit much there! MY dogs do NOT run and jump on people I fully appreciate that people don't enjoy it, not all dog owners are rude and careless, much like how not all non-dog owners are heartless.
Exactly and that's why I oppose to the generalisations.
I encounter ineffective dog owners all the time... early this morning, where I walk my dog (a big park with trails and a lake), a Whippet off leash pelted around the corner at some ridiculous speed (being a race dog!!) proceeded to jump up at me hard three times, covering me in paw prints and scratching my legs, and then ran off.... in the veeeery faaaar distance there was a squeaky woman's voice screeching "Miiillliiiieee... come here"... well Millie wasn't coming...
Eventually I passed this woman and explained to her that her dog had jumpet at me several times and that perhaps she is not ready to be off lead if her recall is so poor... I explained that had I meen a child, the force with which the dog had jumped me, I would have certainly fallen to the ground. And any person frightened of dogs would have been in for a right shock with this boisterous dog with no owner anywhere in sight. Well.... Not a word of an apology, a lot of huffing, as if I were extremely intolerant.
People like that are rude and their dogs are poorly trained because their owners are lazy and ignorant and often treat their dogs like children not animals.
HOWEVER... I am not like that and my dog does not behave like that... there fore I don't like to be judged by those standards.
I am very glad you hear that you aren't like that, and that some dog owners do appreciate that not everyone wants to be jumped on, To be honest I probably don't notice the walkers like you because you aren't impinging on anyone's personal space, but I am not exaggerating when I say I encounter dogs and owners like the ones you describe literally every time we go for a walk in a public space. Consequently my children are terrified of dogs, as they have been bitten and knocked down so many times.0 -
So what is your point?
My point is that you should never ever let your guard down. You have to, as a driver, always obey the rules, remember that you are holding a leatal weapon and be aware of how your car reacts. Obeying the law is not all you have to do. Since a dog has a mind of it's own, it can not be compared to a car. I am sure your dog would not appreciate it.
A dog is like a child, it will have mood changes and will react to threatening variables. The only difference is that a child grows up and gets wiser.0 -
Its a case of ban the breed not the dee in my opinion I am a 'Bullie Breed' lover always have had rescue Staffie's and always will!
Every staffie that I have known has been more likely to lick you to death than bite.
But then I totally believe that it's the owners in most case, rather than the dog, that is the problem. My friends to staff bull terriers are as daft as they come and very good with her zoo of pets (everything from horses, to ducks to small yappy dogs)... BUT if they were to be owner by someone with the wrong mentality who taught them to attack and be nasty then they would be a huge danger.
(N.B it's their 2 chinese crested poodles I'd be more scared of!)0 -
I would not be impressed if I encountered a Staffie off the lead while I was out running. I don't want to be licked or slobbered on either. It's gross.0
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I hate walking because of all the dogs. I live in Philadelphia and there are dogs everywhere. It is frightening.0
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People like that are rude and their dogs are poorly trained because their owners are lazy and ignorant and often treat their dogs like children not animals.
HOWEVER... I am not like that and my dog does not behave like that... there fore I don't like to be judged by those standards.
YEP. My Dad is a veterinarian who works with Large and small animals...I help out often, and he and I would both rather work with a farmer and his very large bull, who's treated like a bull, than some crazy lady with the dog she's raised (and Good GOD dressed!) like a child! ...and before anyone gets pissy with me, I am an animal lover, I literally grew up surrounded by, and living with, them. Still do. I have everything from a 17hh stallion (World show top ten
) to two lazy retired hunting dogs :flowerforyou: 0 -
I hope all you dog owners are taking note of what is being said here.0
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Backinthenines, are you really waiting to see if your dog will ever do anything wrong? I am not attacking you. My intervention was only meant as food for thoughts. Dogs ARE animals.
I am sorry but I'm really not sure what your point is. Are you actually making one???
"are you really waiting to see if your dog will ever do anything wrong?" --- what is your point!! For the umpteenth time I explained that the dog is trained, controlled and insured!
Of course there is chance of accidents with ANY animal... The lady riding horses who just posted can technically kill someone if her horse gets spooked... but assuming she is an experienced rider on a trained horse, with appropriate insurance in case she hurts anyone, then that is all anyone can ask of her?? I wouldn't ask her to stop riding horse because there is a tiny chance someone might get hurt???
Do you stop driving your car because there is a small chance you might hurt someone unintended, despite having a licence and insurance? No!
So what is your point?
'Nines, perhaps you are taking things a bit too seriously. Perhaps you can't read the plain text in front of you. The person who was talking in your direction was simply trying to make a point that not every dog can be trusted while giving her personal experience to back her claim. While I'm VERY long-winded and gave a novel of my experience, she gave a paragraph. Her sole point was that you should not 100% trust your animal 100% of the time because it is prone to bad days/bad moods/mistakes.
My point is, and has been, if there are leash laws, follow them! If you are running on a trail and there is no leash law at that specific trail but there is one in effect everywhere else, then other runners accept the risk when they step foot in that park/on that trail.
Some people can look creepy and imposing, or have odd body language regardless of whether or not they're running or walking or sitting on a park bench. All dogs have the same basic instinct to protect the pack. If your dog thinks that a person looks a little strange, then he/she may be more wary around that person and more apt to break your command when off leash...
Again, if there are leash laws in your area, FOLLOW THEM! regardless of how controlled your dog is. If there are specific places that the leash law is lifted for dog owners, then other runners (and dog owners) MUST accept the risk involved with being in that area.
No one is judging you or attacking you directly, so calm down and try not to take everything as a personal attack.0 -
I believe the problem here is a cultural difference. In England, there are no specific leash laws, and most dog owners there would consider it a violation of their rights to have such laws. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding.
In the US, almost every city/state has a leash law, and the mentality is that responsible dog owners should never even consider taking their dogs out in public without a leash.
Also, just FYI, insuring your dog against liability towards others in the US is PROHIBITIVELY expensive. I'm talking high hundreds to thousands of dollars per month, depending on breed.0 -
Her sole point was that you should not 100% trust your animal 100% of the time because it is prone to bad days/bad moods/mistakes.
My point is, and has been, if there are leash laws, follow them! If you are running on a trail and there is no leash law at that specific trail but there is one in effect everywhere else, then other runners accept the risk when they step foot in that park/on that trail.
So you've not really said anything I haven't said before?
I appreciate the leash laws in the US are different but my dog isn't in the US. And where such laws exist they should be followed.
Like Ilsie rightly pointed out, and I outlined a few pages back, UK law merely states that I must not own a dog that is "dangerous" as specified by a list of dangerous breeds which are forbiddedn in the country, that she must wear a collar with an ID tag, that she must be on a lead where there is livestock such as sheep etc, and that my dog must be controlled and not to be a nuisance which she isn't and never has been.
http://www.endangereddogs.com/EDDRDogLaw.htm
Above and beyond that she is insured - NOT actually a requirement by law in my country but it is in others (Germany made insuring dogs compulsory many years ago).
Nothing is 100% safe! Not a dog, not a horse, not a car, not a parent, not an aeroplane.
If you want to find a world that's 100% safe you'll have to find another planet.0 -
There is a big cultural gap. Even with cats... In the UK, the shelters aren't happy if you plan on keeping your cat inside only. In the US, they encourage, sometimes require, inside only.
The only time my cats go outside is when they're in a carrier on the way to the vets, and they're more than content to leave it that way. None ever tries to go outside, and they were all strays at one point, so it's not like they've never had a taste of the outside world. But my UK friends think it's cruel to keep a cat inside. Different cultures.0 -
Also, just FYI, insuring your dog against liability towards others in the US is PROHIBITIVELY expensive. I'm talking high hundreds to thousands of dollars per month, depending on breed.
Mine is a combined health & liability insurance. It's £25 a month or $40.0 -
I want to run outside but we have people around here who do not believe in using leashes......I was bit a couple of weeks ago and just able to start again. Anyone else have this issue and if so how do you deal with it?
Responsible dog owners don't let their dog run wild off leash. Off leash is ok in certain parks where it's allowed, and for pets who are well mannered and non-aggressive.
If you were bit, did you report it? That's messed up. My dogs go offleash all the time, but I keep them clear from joggers who need the space to maintain rhythm and pace.0 -
There is a big cultural gap. Even with cats... In the UK, the shelters aren't happy if you plan on keeping your cat inside only. In the US, they encourage, sometimes require, inside only.
The only time my cats go outside is when they're in a carrier on the way to the vets, and they're more than content to leave it that way. None ever tries to go outside, and they were all strays at one point, so it's not like they've never had a taste of the outside world. But my UK friends think it's cruel to keep a cat inside. Different cultures.
Mine has a cat flap in the back door and comes and goes as she pleases.... She usually is in at night. Typical cat really... Talk about an animal having it's own mind. :laugh:0 -
My dogs go offleash all the time, but I keep them clear from joggers who need the space to maintain rhythm and pace.
+1 I ask mine to sit and she sits nicely and lets the jogger pass. Jogger usually says polite thank you and everyone is happy.0 -
First I carry a handful of small rocks, second I know where the loose dogs are. Finally when a dog moves aggresaively toward me, I turn face them, growl and bark back, I show my teeth and make my body big, I will step toward them, when they move back I know I won and I backwards run away keeping my eye on them. I've only used the rocks once and I didn't hit the dog I just made him think twice by hitting the pavement near his feet. I've never been bit.0
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There was a dog in our neighborhood that would run at my husband, it was off the leash and not in a gated yard. Finally he took an air horn with him. All I can say was the sound scare the dog and woke the owners, who were non to happy about being scared out of bed at 5 am...lol The next day the dog was on a leash.
We got the idea from our mailman. He carries an air horn instead of mace/pepper spray. Plus the air horn tends to make people look out the windows. He said he quit using pepper spray after he forgot to make sure the spray nozzle was facing out and he sprayed himself. He said the air horn has been the best thing even with people who don't think their dog would ever bite him, they will tend to keep the dog inside or leashed so the 'bad' mailman won't scare it.
I adore dogs, but my husband is allergic to them however I don't like people who purposely train their dogs or encourage them to run at or scare people.0 -
There is a huge german shepard at a house by us and I am terrified of dogs! He is never chained and always chases after me (hasn't bit me yet, thank goodness!). My husband bought me dog pepper spray. It's not supposed to hurt them; just deter them. I haven't used it yet, so I'm not sure if it actually works...0
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Backinthenines, if you think your dog will never make a mistake and always be at your heel, you are sadly mistaking. All living being is spotanious at one time or another. Every dog is in a bad mood at some point in their day, in their life.
Do you drive a car? Do you know for sure you will never in your life cause an accident??
No?
Well there you go.
There is a modicum of risk everywhere in life.
When driving a car we pose a potential risk to others. This risk is mediated by asking people to pass a licence and have insurance in case of an accident.
Same with dog ownership. The dog is trained and fully insured in the unlikely event that she will cause an accident.
That's the best one can do.
Do you where a seat belt when you drive? Are you intentionally irresponsible? Having insurance does not excuse the pain that a bite will cause the victim, trust me I know I have had a great deal of pain for two weeks, lost a week of work outs, time off work. I realize that you only think of the problems that a bite might cause you but think of others!0 -
run faster! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0
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run faster! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
LOL, I am buying pepper spray, maybe a small baton...maybe I should use them on the ignorant owner instead of the biting dog!!!0 -
A mailman here actually carries treats, he said it works better than any sort of defensive thing he's tried! :drinker:0
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Do you where a seat belt when you drive? Are you intentionally irresponsible? Having insurance does not excuse the pain that a bite will cause the victim, trust me I know I have had a great deal of pain for two weeks, lost a week of work outs, time off work. I realize that you only think of the problems that a bite might cause you but think of others!
Christ almighty... What do you have to do to please some people???
For the last time..... and very slowly...
- she's on the lead on public places such as normal roads, shopping centres etc
- she is off the lead in parks and wide open spaces where she is under control and this is LEGAL in my country
- she is trained and has great recall and has never been aggressive
- despite the fact that it is not legally required of me to do so, I have taken out liability insurance, so that in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event of an accident, the victim will incur no financial cost and will be compensated
I am about as responsibile a pet owner as you will ever encounter one, but reading stuff like this makes me realise why some people like their dogs more than people!
Your contribution whether I wear a seatbelt... Relevance?? Of course I wear a seatbelt... but how that reduces risk to others, which is what we are discussing here, I fail to see! Surely you should have asked whether I had driving lessons and passed a driving licence... the answer would be yes of course.0 -
How funny. Badly trained, huh? My collie will gather a heard of sheep or cows on a command. She'll speak, sit, lie down, wait politely while vet is giving her the injections, find a game bird if told, pick up a shot bird if told, scare a hare if told. She'll do everything she's told and nothing without permission. She's been declared brilliant by the best dog trainers in England. But because she doesnt like a lead - and she doesnt need one, she is badly trained-end of it. Maybe some people shouldnt express their opinions if they havent got a clue what they are talking about.I've got 2 dogs, one 10 yo, other 1 yo, non of them have ever been on a lead. I only go through public areas to get to a footpath or a wood, but neverless, dont put them on a lead. They go crazy when I try.
If you had trained your dogs to accept a lead, they'd politely sit for you to attach it. What the heck do you do at the vet?
I agree that's another example of poor training. If you can't safely attach a lead to your dogs they are poorly trained - end of. They call the shots, not you, and that's wrong.
Physician, heal thyself then! It's not at all difficult to teach a dog to accept a lead nor to walk comfortably on one.
I understand that in the UK leash laws are nowhere near as prevalent as they are here in the US, but IMO and also in that of most responsible dog owners, training a dog to accept a lead and for loose-eash walking (which is not necessarily 'heel') is a basic of dog training.
I'm not disputing that you have trained your dogs to do certain things pretty reliably. I'm saying that the dogs won't accept leads simply because you haven't trained them to do so. They're obviously capable of learning it.
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I wasn't afraid of dogs until several occasions in the past few years....one time a loose dog chased me down the block barking (was running in front of its owner), another time I said hi to a dog in its yard, was not approaching them or anything or going into the yard, and it bounded at me and tried to jump the fence to get to me... and until I moved I always took a huge detour to avoid the 'dog house'...
So I completely understand!!0 -
I just find the generalisations staggering.
Obviously there are good/effective dog owners and bad/ineffective dog owners... just like there are, for instance, good or bad parents...
Some people's children turn into murderers... that doesn't mean we should all be stopped from having children only because some people can't raise theirs.
As with everything in life from crossing the road to stroking a dog, a modicum of risk has to be accepted.
The numbers are just not even slightly comparable, though. I know many many people who have been attacked by dogs. Probably getting on for half the people I know. ALL by dogs who the owners insisted wouldn't hurt a fly and must have been provoked (how my little sister aged 8 "provoked" our neighbour's dog which had run completely unsupervised into our garden, I have no idea, she wouldn't have gone near the thing by choice). My husband was attacked by his mother's pet dog as a baby. My son was bitten by a friend of mine's new puppy last year. A school friend of mine was disfigured by a dog as a child. Another friend's aunt had her jaw literally ripped off by her own pet dog. These are just a few examples. Quite literally half the people I know have been bitten by someone's "softie".
Compare that to the number of murder victims I have known..........................................none.
Even those who haven't been bitten. How many of us have had a strange dog jump up on us and knock us over? It happens to me and my children every single time we go for a walk. And the dogs owners always either laugh about it or blame my children for shrieking and "provoking it", when they are terrified. None dog owners do not want your dog running up and drooling on, licking, sniffing, jumping up on, chasing or biting us. And it is your responsibility as an owner that that doesn't happen, and yet I can't think of a single dog owner who appreciates that.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that it is the OWNER's responsibility to assure that their dogs don't jump on other people, bite them, run loose, bark so much it is a nuisance to neighbors, are very well-socialized, walk well on a loose lead, are leashed at all times when it is likely to encounter other animals or people and is not in a safe enclosure, etc., etc.
There are owners who appreciate that these are their responsibilities. I'm one of them and there are several others in this thread who also agree.
Maybe one of the reasons that it's different in the US (although we certainly have our share of imbecile dog owners) is that we have better laws and are extremely litigious. When you don't control your dog here, you are at real risk of having your animal seized and destroyed AND paying damages to victims who incur property or physical damage.
Re: children and dogs: No matter how well you know your dog, dogs must ALWAYS be supervised with children. NO EXCEPTIONS. Children do sometimes unwittingly provoke dogs with their erratic movements, shrieking, running at or away from the dog, patting too aggressively, hugging the dog, they frequently have spilled food on them, etc., etc. Children do NOT understand how to behave safely around dogs, nor should they be trusted to (especially if they don't live with one). And the dog will treat the child as a puppy and try to correct it with a nip to the face if provoked enough, which often has disastrous results for child and dog. ALWAYS SUPERVISE DOGS AND CHILDREN!!
I don't have kids. When my dog was a pup, I worked hard to socialize her around children daily. This required a lot of effort and planning on my part every day, but we did it. She's now nearly 9 and still immediately lays down when she sees a child and stays there. She will also take commands from any child she meets, as we worked on that daily as well until she was well over a year old and still occasionally work on it. But I would STILL not ever leave her alone with a child and she is always leashed around kids. We've never had an incident with a child, but as a lifelong dog owner, I realize that when and if things go wrong, they go wrong astonishingly quickly so I prepare as best I can. If I can't supervise closely, the dog is crated if kids are around. No excuse for doing anything else.0 -
Mine has a cat flap in the back door and comes and goes as she pleases.... She usually is in at night. Typical cat really... Talk about an animal having it's own mind. :laugh:
So your dog can go outside night and day, with and without your supervision. Have you ever heard of dogs jumping fences or digging their way out? When you are not around, what kind of control do you have over your dog?
I really hope you never have to use the insurance you are paying for your dog. I really hope your dog never attacks a child or an infant.0
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