Loose dogs while jogging
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It's not only the people who are in danger, either. Working at a vet's, I never met an owner of a dog who'd been hit by a car who thought their dog would run out in traffic. I heard, "He always stayed right with me," or "She never did that before!"
It only takes once.
On the other hand, I have known a lot of ridiculously well trained dogs. I know the kind of training behind getting your dog therapy certified. It's incredible. And herding dogs... Sheep trials amaze me. I'm in awe of the dedication that goes into that level of obedience.0 -
No disrepect to you but dangerous dogs that break into their neighbours garden are a bit of a different issue from me running with my unleashed dog in a wide open field! I will continue to allow my dog to run freely where it is LEGAL to do so.
Where I live it is only legal in the ONE dog park we have, everywhere else a leash is required if it not your personal property...
I hope you never find the thing that will make your dog break command and chase....0 -
. I respond based on how I read the dog (having a lot of experience helps here). In all cases, it's best if you STOP RUNNING. Dogs chase running people. So stop running. Don't make prolonged eye contact. You can try a firm NO or Go Home. Actually works sometimes! Then slowly walk away backwards, so you can see the dog.
Good advice, that has worked best for me too in most cases. There is one large mixed breed dog on my long run route that almost bit my training partner even after following the above advice. For him I went to D*ck's Sporting Goods and bought some dog mace. I also have a permit to carry but at this point I think that would be overkill...so, the next time we ran by the dog wasn't out. Then, the time after that it was out, BUT this tiny little pug who is obviously the pack BOSS showed up out of nowhere and ran in front of the bigger dog that had been trying to bite us and STOPPED HIM! If I could speak dog I'm pretty sure that little guy gave him a good *kitten* chewing about chasing us.
So I have yet to see how my dog mace works, but that's ok!0 -
I just find the generalisations staggering.
Obviously there are good/effective dog owners and bad/ineffective dog owners... just like there are, for instance, good or bad parents...
Some people's children turn into murderers... that doesn't mean we should all be stopped from having children only because some people can't raise theirs.
As with everything in life from crossing the road to stroking a dog, a modicum of risk has to be accepted.0 -
I'm not seeing these "generalizations."
It's normal, and smart, for people to be cautious around dogs they don't know. It's normal to be annoyed if dogs are required to be on a leash and aren't. No one is saying all dogs are bad.
I think I'm a great driver, and think I could very easily drive and talk on the cell phone. I've done it. I didn't wreck my car. But now that it's illegal in my state to drive and talk, I don't answer the phone while I'm driving.0 -
I'm not seeing these "generalizations."
It's normal, and smart, for people to be cautious around dogs they don't know. It's normal to be annoyed if dogs are required to be on a leash and aren't. No one is saying all dogs are bad.
I think I'm a great driver, and think I could very easily drive and talk on the cell phone. I've done it. I didn't wreck my car. But now that it's illegal in my state to drive and talk, I don't answer the phone while I'm driving.
The people who say sensible things like "it is wise to be cautious when encountering an unknown dog" are clearly NOT the ones doing the generalising. That is mere common sense, just like drink-driving or driving while using a hand-held mobile is neither sensible nor legal...
It's people posting stuff insinuating that every dog is a potential killer, that is a load of rubbish.
In that case every gun owner in the US is a potential killer and you've got plenty of those.0 -
I'm not seeing these "generalizations."
It's normal, and smart, for people to be cautious around dogs they don't know. It's normal to be annoyed if dogs are required to be on a leash and aren't. No one is saying all dogs are bad.
I think I'm a great driver, and think I could very easily drive and talk on the cell phone. I've done it. I didn't wreck my car. But now that it's illegal in my state to drive and talk, I don't answer the phone while I'm driving.
The people who say sensible things like "it is wise to be cautious when encountering an unknown dog" are clearly NOT the ones doing the generalising. That is mere common sense, just like drink-driving or driving while using a hand-held mobile is neither sensible nor legal...
It's people posting stuff insinuating that every dog is a potential killer, that is a load of rubbish.
In that case every gun owner in the US is a potential killer and you've got plenty of those.
Actually, every gun owner is a potential killer, and the ones who are responsible gun owners know it, and respect it. Every do can potential snap a some one, it is how the defend themselves it is nature and not something to be shamed of.0 -
How funny. Badly trained, huh? My collie will gather a heard of sheep or cows on a command. She'll speak, sit, lie down, wait politely while vet is giving her the injections, find a game bird if told, pick up a shot bird if told, scare a hare if told. She'll do everything she's told and nothing without permission. She's been declared brilliant by the best dog trainers in England. But because she doesnt like a lead - and she doesnt need one, she is badly trained-end of it. Maybe some people shouldnt express their opinions if they havent got a clue what they are talking about.I've got 2 dogs, one 10 yo, other 1 yo, non of them have ever been on a lead. I only go through public areas to get to a footpath or a wood, but neverless, dont put them on a lead. They go crazy when I try.
If you had trained your dogs to accept a lead, they'd politely sit for you to attach it. What the heck do you do at the vet?
I agree that's another example of poor training. If you can't safely attach a lead to your dogs they are poorly trained - end of. They call the shots, not you, and that's wrong.0 -
Just wanted to clarify that I had already excused working and sport from being out in front, obviously working dogs are off lead and under control or they wouldn't be working dogs. And yeah pretty much all the dogs I'm talking about would make excellent plow horses. I used to skate w/my dogs, they knew harness meant in front lead meant heal. If you have a big dog, you HAVE to have control. Most of the "alpha" training that I did involved little more than posture, vocal tone and redirection, that's all it took to get their attention. Since I had gaze hounds i.e. Great Danes, I also taught them hand signals, (which can be taught to any dog) which they were naturally cued to. I had my dogs trained to spit out a steak if I told them to, all by command and they learned that command by me asking for the object and if they didn't give it I'd reach in their mouths and grab it.
I stand by my statement, if they are in front of you you have no real control. Pulling deffinately equates to in front of you. By your side slightly in front of your is by your side, not in front.0 -
I own 2 dogs, and I have had this issue in my neighborhood. Not that they get the chance to bite me. I have a male Akita and he is a dominant dog, he does not let another dog get near me, so my problem is that they come towards him. Kuma (my akita) is ALWAYS on a leash when we are out. I have had to go have conversations with the owners and tell them if I see their dog out again I WILL spray it and I WILL contact Animal control. I usually notice that I dont ever see that dog off lead again. Now as for my other dog, she is super submissive and well trained (she is an agility dog and we are working toward search training, she is only 1 year old). She is a German Shepherd, and even with her I ONLY have her off leash when I am running in the field by my house and there is NO ONE out in the field with us. We did have an issue with a pit bull that the owners did not know how to control and it would run up to my dogs. Caden it was fine because she gets along with all friendly dogs, but it was never okay with Kuma. They did not listen to me, so all I had to do was carry my gun 1 time, the owner saw it and yet again I NEVER saw that dog off leash again. Sometimes you have to be direct with the other owners for them to get the message. I never intended on hurting the dog, but just them knowing that I would protect myself and my dogs at all costs made them stop and listen.0
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Before I begin, let me apologize to the OP for this thread going slightly off-topic. The original topic was a question for advice on the best way to defend onesself against stray or otherwise uncontrolled dogs while out running...
Okay, that being said, allow me to shed some light on my background. I grew up with parents that raised Dobermans. One of the most gentle breeds of dogs I've even known. Very family oriented and kid-friendly. Very protective of their 'property' too; be it the bed of the pick-up, or the 2 acres we owned (only 1 acre was fenced in). We had many children on our street that knew Hannah and Rex by name and could easily come up and pet them. The street we lived on was out in the country and had five houses on it. Each of our neighbors had a dog or two, but Hannah and Rex kinda protected the whole street and all the dogs there too. However, even though our dobies protected the street, they knew damn well they couldn't leave the unfenced front yard without permission. They would sit in the front yard and watch cows and sheep and horses and squirrels and rabbits and cats walk by without even a second glance. Sure, we had a couple tomcats that got into fights and Hannah and Rex were allowed to rush to their defense and chase off the stray cat. However, once they had the cat a safe distance from the house, we could always recall them. Luckily for us, we lived on that dirt road where traffic was at a minimum. However, anytime we went into the city with the dogs, they both had a leash on and stayed in the heel position on my parents.
I've been in the military for 6 years now as a law enforcement patrolman with 3 of those years as a canine handler. I'll tell you as a handler one of the things that worries me most is stray dogs. I know many of the dogs on this installation, some even by name, but there isn't a single one I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if it came at me or my partner while we were on patrol. We have leash laws here, and military members STILL think that it's okay to walk around with their 'perfectly behaved' collie off-lead in the heel position. Let me tell you, when your collie sees my German Shephard and my boy gives her a deep bark in challenge, most dogs have a choice between fight or flight when they're not in their yard. So, what does you Collie do? It doesn't have to be a Collie, either. I've just seen herding dogs as the most popular choice for going off lead. Most dogs will respond to the challenge with a challenge of their own. They see the sidewalk as public property, not my partner's property, and feel it's okay to challenge his authority. In dog terms, this is completely acceptible. He's just another dog, a stanger, and they don't know who is the boss of that particular stretch of sidewalk. Still, the owners always, ALWAYS, tell me that they've had this dog for years and years and she's never done this before (run up to a strange dog without obeying the recall).
I've owned a Husky for a little over 2 years now. He listens very well and recalls on command. He knows his place during walks, but still gets a little ahead of himself. Still, he pulls and fights my command when other large dogs are in sight. I strongly believe he just wants to play, but I know it's best for the owners of all dogs in question to make that decision. He can come off very intimidating to someone who doesn't know him or doesn't know anything about the gentle nature of Huskies. He's very forward with his friendliness and always comes at you at a dead run simply to lick your hand. He won't jump on most people unless they entice him, and even then he prefers to 'bunny hop' just in case he'll get in trouble. However, he never leaves the fenced-in part of our yard without his leash.
In order to maintain the physical fitness level required for my job, I have to run. With the knowledge I have about dogs and the amount of times I've caught our working dogs in aggression training, I feel I'm a bit safer than most while out running when there are unleashed dogs about. This does not excuse those animals' owners from the fact that there are leash laws and they're breaking them. If a dog is out running with their owner off-lead, then I tend to feel a bit safer. Two reasons for this, one-if the dog attacks me, I know who to sue and two-if the dog attacks me, I have more confidence in that owners ability to help me get it off me than if I were by myself. However, I think the OP and most people on this thread are talking about stray dogs. I don't meen like mangy, filthy, stray dogs without an owner. I meen the kind that jumped the fence or dug under it, or the dogs that took off out the front door while their owner was bringing in the groceries.
Most domesticated dogs see humans as an extension of their pack, and strange humans as just another dog, albeit a funny-looking dog, still a dog nonetheless. So, it's entirely natural for a dog without an owner present to want to challenge the new guy and establish a pecking order in this 'new' pack he has encountered. Further, while you're running, you're even more vulnerable to both attack and looking like a prey animal to the dog. With your heart rate up and your breathing challenged by the stress of the run, you loose your fine motor skills, making it harder for you to defend yourself. The dogs wolfish instincts tell it this. When you're running, you look like prey, and the inner-wolf wants to give chase. What does a wolf do with the things it's chasing once it catches them? it kills and eats them. The dogs basic instincts tell it to do this...
While you may think that Fulffy is an innocent and cuddly little CareBear of adorableness and fluffiness. You're mistaken. You take one look at a German Shepherd and you know where he came from. Look at a pomeranian and tell me if you see it's inner wolf. Do the same with a Chihuahua and a Jack Russell. Where's their inner-wolves? You may not see them, but they're there. Every dog breed was bred for a specific purpose and most were intended to work in some way or another. Bulldogs fought bulls. Terriers hunted foxes. the Shepherding breeds like the Malinois, German Shepherd and Collie were bred to herd cattle and protect the herd from wolves and coyotes. What does every dog breed have in common other than a common ancestor? The fact that their original breeding was meant for work and most of the time that work involved some kind of predatory instinct.
So, dog owners, ask yourself, do you think it's a fair assessment to give someone the guilt-trip for not being comfortable with a dog who's off-leash? ESPECIALLY when that dog doesn't have an owner in sight? So, how about we stop with the bickering back and forth and acknowledge that dogs CAN be scary to some people; people with bad experiences or lack the knowledge of how to approach a dog. Nonetheless, a dog of any shape and size can be dangerous and should be treated with the respect it deserves, from both the owners and passersby. Think about it.
/rant
Again, sorry to OP for this going a bit off-topic...0 -
I just find the generalisations staggering.
Obviously there are good/effective dog owners and bad/ineffective dog owners... just like there are, for instance, good or bad parents...
Some people's children turn into murderers... that doesn't mean we should all be stopped from having children only because some people can't raise theirs.
As with everything in life from crossing the road to stroking a dog, a modicum of risk has to be accepted.
The numbers are just not even slightly comparable, though. I know many many people who have been attacked by dogs. Probably getting on for half the people I know. ALL by dogs who the owners insisted wouldn't hurt a fly and must have been provoked (how my little sister aged 8 "provoked" our neighbour's dog which had run completely unsupervised into our garden, I have no idea, she wouldn't have gone near the thing by choice). My husband was attacked by his mother's pet dog as a baby. My son was bitten by a friend of mine's new puppy last year. A school friend of mine was disfigured by a dog as a child. Another friend's aunt had her jaw literally ripped off by her own pet dog. These are just a few examples. Quite literally half the people I know have been bitten by someone's "softie".
Compare that to the number of murder victims I have known..........................................none.
Even those who haven't been bitten. How many of us have had a strange dog jump up on us and knock us over? It happens to me and my children every single time we go for a walk. And the dogs owners always either laugh about it or blame my children for shrieking and "provoking it", when they are terrified. None dog owners do not want your dog running up and drooling on, licking, sniffing, jumping up on, chasing or biting us. And it is your responsibility as an owner that that doesn't happen, and yet I can't think of a single dog owner who appreciates that.0 -
/rant
Again, sorry to OP for this going a bit off-topic...
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lol, it's all good! The dog that bit me was with an owner, but I a more worried about strays! I would like to be able to take my silky out with me with out to much worry about what a large stray will do to a 10lb dog! Very well put by the way!0 -
Thank you!0
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. And the dogs owners always either laugh about it or blame my children for shrieking and "provoking it", when they are terrified. None dog owners do not want your dog running up and drooling on, licking, sniffing, jumping up on, chasing or biting us. And it is your responsibility as an owner that that doesn't happen, and yet I can't think of a single dog owner who appreciates that.
That is a bit much there! MY dogs do NOT run and jump on people I fully appreciate that people don't enjoy it, not all dog owners are rude and careless, much like how not all non-dog owners are heartless.0 -
. And the dogs owners always either laugh about it or blame my children for shrieking and "provoking it", when they are terrified. None dog owners do not want your dog running up and drooling on, licking, sniffing, jumping up on, chasing or biting us. And it is your responsibility as an owner that that doesn't happen, and yet I can't think of a single dog owner who appreciates that.
That is a bit much there! MY dogs do NOT run and jump on people I fully appreciate that people don't enjoy it, not all dog owners are rude and careless, much like how not all non-dog owners are heartless.
Exactly and that's why I oppose to the generalisations.
I encounter ineffective dog owners all the time... early this morning, where I walk my dog (a big park with trails and a lake), a Whippet off leash pelted around the corner at some ridiculous speed (being a race dog!!) proceeded to jump up at me hard three times, covering me in paw prints and scratching my legs, and then ran off.... in the veeeery faaaar distance there was a squeaky woman's voice screeching "Miiillliiiieee... come here"... well Millie wasn't coming...
Eventually I passed this woman and explained to her that her dog had jumpet at me several times and that perhaps she is not ready to be off lead if her recall is so poor... I explained that had I meen a child, the force with which the dog had jumped me, I would have certainly fallen to the ground. And any person frightened of dogs would have been in for a right shock with this boisterous dog with no owner anywhere in sight. Well.... Not a word of an apology, a lot of huffing, as if I were extremely intolerant.
People like that are rude and their dogs are poorly trained because their owners are lazy and ignorant and often treat their dogs like children not animals.
HOWEVER... I am not like that and my dog does not behave like that... there fore I don't like to be judged by those standards.0 -
And to the woman with the "brilliant" collie... I really couldn't give two hoots how many medals your dog has won, whether it can do backflips with a frisbee while barking answers to mental arythmetics...
If you're not in a position to place a lead on your own dog because, in your own words, "he doesn't like it", that's pretty poor....0 -
Big dogs don't tend to bother with me. The little ones seem to like the chase. It drives me mad because I am so worried about stepping on them or tripping over them. We both could get pretty hurt.
The park states all dogs should be on a lesh but so many people don't bother. It is asking for trouble.0 -
HOWEVER... I am not like that and my dog does not behave like that... there fore I don't like to be judged by those standards.
I had a very well trained dog and had total recall on her. I had a cat also and they lived very peacefully together since she was a puppy. At the age of 10, my dog killed my cat in my house while I was in the next room. Good thing it wasn't a baby.
Backinthenines, if you think your dog will never make a mistake and always be at your heel, you are sadly mistaking. All living being is spotanious at one time or another. Every dog is in a bad mood at some point in their day, in their life.0 -
Backinthenines, if you think your dog will never make a mistake and always be at your heel, you are sadly mistaking. All living being is spotanious at one time or another. Every dog is in a bad mood at some point in their day, in their life.
Do you drive a car? Do you know for sure you will never in your life cause an accident??
No?
Well there you go.
There is a modicum of risk everywhere in life.
When driving a car we pose a potential risk to others. This risk is mediated by asking people to pass a licence and have insurance in case of an accident.
Same with dog ownership. The dog is trained and fully insured in the unlikely event that she will cause an accident.
That's the best one can do.0
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