Do you think fat people "ought" to lose weight?

Options
12345679»

Replies

  • hikeout470
    hikeout470 Posts: 628 Member
    Options
    Luna,I showed some compassion already several times earlier this thread and it was thrown back in my face by the original poster. So basically, don't dish it out if you can't handle it back.

    Scooters, just an observation. Yes, obesity causes handicap
  • candistyx
    candistyx Posts: 547 Member
    Options
    The vast majority of people with BMI's above normal are completely mobile and have no need for scooters or handicapped spaces or anything of the sort. Even my dad who has bonefide issues with his size, which is "morbidly obese" (has to wear a special leg sock to reduce the strain on his joints and has gout) and is well old enough to have all the potential health problems manifest still manages to walk 2 miles a day and certainly doesn't require any kind of extra help from anyone.

    People on scooters because of obesity ALONE are extremely rare. If you do see them (and I think in my life I have seen one person on a mobility scooter round town), how do you know they're not fat BECAUSE of their impaired mobility rather than the other way around. You'd have to be exceptionally fat to not be able to walk.
  • lovejoydavid
    lovejoydavid Posts: 395 Member
    Options


    Candistyx: Like I said before, being overweight is not healthy no matter how you want to spin it. You show me a few studies out of the 1,000s that say the opposite. You KNOW being overweight is not healthy or you wouldn't be here. And you also know that if you were to lose some weight then you would be able to do the exercises that you presently can not do. I'm overweight now and comparing myself to before and now....Sure, I can exercise but NOTHING like before.
    1. health is not the only motivation someone can have for something. I am doing this for the sake of LOOKING nice, not for health.
    2. Show me the 1000's of studies in which being overweight increases your chances of dying NOT increases you risk factors. Risk factors are not the same as disease. I am open to debate and being convinced. Just like I didn't know the information I have now a short while ago, if I have more information I'll revise my conclusions.
    3. Exercise conditioning is achieved by exercise not weight loss. I'll be able to do more exercise by exercising not by becoming smaller. Maybe when you were thinner you were also more active and thus more conditioned, or maybe you were just younger.

    I know this is an older topic, but I would point out the most recent, and largest, study reported in NEJM. 1.46 million americans (pooled from studies in the national cancer institute), and exclusions for preexistant disease and smoking. It is the definitive epidemiological study for the time being, and it clearly demonstrated increased (10%) all cause mortality for the merely overweight, and then a much more significant jump as BMI increased. That is pretty impressive, especially considering BMI is an imperfect measure, and some elevated BMI's are completely benign (people engaging in weight training, etc). The study designers themselves admit that waist circumference to determine adiposity would be a more desirable measure, and one can only imagine that a pooled study as large as this one using that data would have more definitive results.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Options
    If someone is fat, and doesn't have health problems because of being fat, do you think they "should" lose weight? Would you in any way look down on them or reject them if they chose to live with their weight instead of struggling to change it?

    Why or why not?

    It's their personal choice. If a person makes that choice, it's nobody else's business. However, they should garner no "special" rights.
  • lovejoydavid
    lovejoydavid Posts: 395 Member
    Options
    As to the original 'ought', I don't know. For moral oughts to be real, there needs to be brute moral facts. Otherwise, we are just speculating on things being other than they are actually are, which seems irrational and unproveable. If the ought is a statement of duty, one still has to prove the duty exists, at least in a social contract. I suppose, if we are just referring to a goal directed ought, than one ought to lose weight if one wants to mitigate certain social and physical constaints, however, those constraints must be evident. These may all be in conflict, though, as if the moral ought is real, it is possible that it is the moral obligation to reduce the social constraints on the overweight, which may not be consistent with a singular goal ought towards weight loss.
  • ZebraHead
    ZebraHead Posts: 15,207 Member
    Options
    I think (as everyone should) that if we all minded our own business that world would be a better place.
  • hcam8
    hcam8 Posts: 69
    Options
    Definitely should lose weight

    Diabetes
    Breast cancer
    Ischaemic heart disease
    Depression
    Osteoporosis (no weight-bearing exercise)
    Diabetes
    Diabetes
    Diabetes
    Diabetes
  • schnarfo
    schnarfo Posts: 764 Member
    Options
    yes...same as they would probably say i ought to gain weight
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    Options
    The vast majority of people with BMI's above normal are completely mobile and have no need for scooters or handicapped spaces or anything of the sort. Even my dad who has bonefide issues with his size, which is "morbidly obese" (has to wear a special leg sock to reduce the strain on his joints and has gout) and is well old enough to have all the potential health problems manifest still manages to walk 2 miles a day and certainly doesn't require any kind of extra help from anyone.

    People on scooters because of obesity ALONE are extremely rare. If you do see them (and I think in my life I have seen one person on a mobility scooter round town), how do you know they're not fat BECAUSE of their impaired mobility rather than the other way around. You'd have to be exceptionally fat to not be able to walk.

    Very good point. They may have some non-self-inflicted disease or condition that prevent exercise and causes weight gain.

    The whole argument about overweight people not being cut any slack by society is rather ridiculous. There are tons of other ways that people become burdens of society by self infliction. Smoking, drinking, driving too fast or recklessly and getting into a disability causing accident, being thin but eating so much sugar that you develop diabetes or CHF, ... The list goes on and on, just because obesity is more noticable doesn't make it any worse.
  • lovejoydavid
    lovejoydavid Posts: 395 Member
    Options
    I think (as everyone should) that if we all minded our own business that world would be a better place.

    My business is other people's health. What do I do with that?
  • ZebraHead
    ZebraHead Posts: 15,207 Member
    Options
    I think (as everyone should) that if we all minded our own business that world would be a better place.

    My business is other people's health. What do I do with that?

    how bout: "Keep your mouth shut unless someone solicits your 'expert' opinion"
  • lovejoydavid
    lovejoydavid Posts: 395 Member
    Options
    I think (as everyone should) that if we all minded our own business that world would be a better place.

    My business is other people's health. What do I do with that?

    how bout: "Keep your mouth shut unless someone solicits your 'expert' opinion"

    People do not solicit my opinion. They end up in my ICU. Do I fail to tell them why, because they seem sensitive on the subject? I only ask because your 'moral ought' of minding your own business seems very little different from any other moral ought, and I would require as stong a rationale for it.
  • llaurall
    llaurall Posts: 32
    Options
    People have different perceptions about what defines being "fat". But if someone was clinically overweight/obese then yes they ought to lose weight because fat and medical problems more often than not come hand in hand.
  • writtenINthestars
    writtenINthestars Posts: 1,933 Member
    Options
    Wow. This thread still boggles my mind.
  • mamagooskie
    mamagooskie Posts: 2,964 Member
    Options
    I think everyone ought to do what feels right for them. Whether it is harmful or beneficial to their health or life is up to them
  • lizziebeth1028
    lizziebeth1028 Posts: 3,602 Member
    Options
    For their own health and well being and for their loved ones they should try to loose weight and overcome their addiction to food. They may be in good healthy when they are young but have you ever seen an obese elderly person??? People who are extremely over weight generally do not live long lives and their latter years are riddled with healthy problems. And that.... is very sad:( Ultimately it is their decision but as I would encourage them to lead a healthier lifestyle.
  • lovejoydavid
    lovejoydavid Posts: 395 Member
    Options
    I think everyone ought to do what feels right for them. Whether it is harmful or beneficial to their health or life is up to them

    That sounds very fair, and under most circustances I would agree. But how does it function in the light of, say, hospitalizing a person with disordered eating, or staging an intervention for an alcoholic? Is it, in fact, morally wrong to pressure someone to stop smoking? I would have to ask, what drives the moral principle of non-interference, when it appears to be not more than impolite to question someones health habits? Is a polite society preferrable to a healthy one? Is it, in fact, preferable that I am polite to a parent of obese children, and scrupulously avoid mentioning recent studies that indicate that they will likely not outgrow it and may have significant health problems, or do I risk being being seen as tactless and broach the subject?

    Frankly, I tend to be of the tactful and quiet variety, and prefer politeness and non-confrontation, but I do so from personal comfort. I am unclear if, ethically, my approach is actually the better one. I would like to see a real argument made for it, not just a statement of opinion, if such is possible.

Categories