vegans did you know that.......

mamagooskie

I'm just venting a bit and thought I'd share with you:

This was told to me yesterday at a party (by a man who grew up on a farm) that by NOT drinking milk we are harming cows because when they are not milked they will die. I guess like ALL other mammals on the planet they don't dry up once the baby weans, their udders swell up and they just die a painful death. He actually wanted to bet me on it!!

(I know mastitis is a possibility, as it is in humans and all that, but with PROPER care and attention with and with meds it can be dealt with just fine)

I asked him though what if the cow was never impregnated just to make milk.....he said well those ones are fine. Although there is APPARENTLY one type of cow that spontaneously makes milk at random.

This same man proceeded to tell me how mean I was being to tomatoes by eating them since they once were alive (as with all other veggies) and made sure to remind me I couldn't have any black forest cake (because of dairy ingredients) I'm eating healthy dip **** so I didn't plan on eating cake anyway!!

He seemed okay with the idea of vegetarian although he wouldn't do it but vegan was just mindboggling to him. He said he couldn't live without dessert and I informed him that I have made many tasty non dairy desserts but apparently they couldn't possibly be "like this" (as he points to his cake)

Oh and one more thing.......this was his "Funny" little quote to plant based diets.......

I DON'T EAT WHAT FOOD EATS!

GeekGirlOnAQuest

:noway: Some people's ignorance is just mind boggling.

sarahsfaith

What????????hahahahah I need to google that! I always thought that hormones were given to cows in order to produce more milk....

nicothepotato

Seriously, I hate being told that things I'm eating aren't vegan. I make my own vegan version of everything. I have a vegan recipe blog. I know what I'm eating, shut up meat eater.

Laceylala

WTF really??? So you should eat cow and cow milk but not vegetables because the tomatos were alive once? It sounds like he should just be drinking more.

cheeksv

lol I am not a vegetarian or a vegan but what was this idiot on?

If he doesn't like to eat what food eats then I bet his diet is kinda bad with the lack of fruits and veggies.

sarahliftsUP

haha, I'm not a vegan but vegetarian, and I can't tell you the number of times I've heard that I'm eating 'living things' (aka fruits and vegetables). I just ignore it.. because really what they want is a reaction out of you. If you respond, you just make their day. By ignoring them, we win.

DrBorkBork

He needs to be introduced to Kristen's Raw Vegan chocolate recipe book!

SiltyPigeon

To each their own.

However, I really don't see any difference between the following things:

1.) Me taking milk from a cow.
2.) A bee taking pollen from a flower.
3.) An ant taking honey dew from aphids.
4.) A Brown-headed cow-bird laying eggs in another bird's nest.
5.) A wasp laying its eggs into the body of a caterpillar.
6.) Any scavenger or predator eating a carcass.
7.) Any number of animals taking eggs.
8.) Vampire bats drinking blood from live mammals.
9.) Rodents lining their burrows with the fur from other creatures.
10.) And so on and so forth.

It's not just about health.... eggs, honey, milk... they are all good for you.
So it must be about "morals". Basically, "it's not fair to take what doesn't belong to us". Right? But, like my Mama always said "Life ain't fair". A lion would eat you with out second thought if it had the opportunity and a coon would steal your lunch right from under nose. Evolution... survival of the fittest... this is the NATURAL order of things.

I just don't understand it.

mamagooskie

WTF really??? So you should eat cow and cow milk but not vegetables because the tomatos were alive once? It sounds like he should just be drinking more.

Oh I think he drank PLENTY.......he kept calling me an alcoholic though since I did indulge in ONE mikes hard LIGHT lemonade!!

mamagooskie

lol I am not a vegetarian or a vegan but what was this idiot on?

If he doesn't like to eat what food eats then I bet his diet is kinda bad with the lack of fruits and veggies.

I saw him eat veggies last night.......BACON WRAPPED ASPARAGUS!!!

nicothepotato

To each their own.

However, I really don't see any difference between the following things:

1.) Me taking milk from a cow.
2.) A bee taking pollen from a flower.
3.) An ant taking honey dew from aphids.
4.) A Brown-headed cow-bird laying eggs in another bird's nest.
5.) A wasp laying its eggs into the body of a caterpillar.
6.) Any scavenger or predator eating a carcass.
7.) Any number of animals taking eggs.
8.) Vampire bats drinking blood from live mammals.
9.) Rodents lining their burrows with the fur from other creatures.
10.) And so on and so forth.

It's not just about health.... eggs, honey, milk... they are all good for you.
So it must be about "morals". Basically, "it's not fair to take what doesn't belong to us". Right? But, like my Mama always said "Life ain't fair". A lion would eat you with out second thought if it had the opportunity and a coon would steal your lunch right from under nose. Evolution... survival of the fittest... this is the NATURAL order of things.

I just don't understand it.

I would have no problem if I milked the cow. I have a problem with how these cows are kept and impregnated and stuffed full of crap to keep producing. If we went back to the natural order of things, I would be a meat eater.

chelraeb

Wowza! I love it when people tell me their opinion on what I'm eating... because it's their business not mine and it really affects their life.

He's a dumb *kitten*...

cheeksv

[/quote]
"I would have no problem if I milked the cow. I have a problem with how these cows are kept and impregnated and stuffed full of crap to keep producing. If we went back to the natural order of things, I would be a meat eater."[/quote]

This quote thing is not working ^^^^^

I have always wondered that. I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who are more against the way the animals are treated than the killing of the animals itself. I have been curious if all animals were just wild or free range and taken care of all nice like would most go back to eating meat or even just drinking milk etc?

mamagooskie

Wowza! I love it when people tell me their opinion on what I'm eating... because it's their business not mine and it really affects their life.

He's a dumb *kitten*...

Yup exactly and this was the first time I met this guy!

SiltyPigeon

"I would have no problem if I milked the cow. I have a problem with how these cows are kept and impregnated and stuffed full of crap to keep producing. If we went back to the natural order of things, I would be a meat eater."

[/quote]

I have always wondered that. I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who are more against the way the animals are treated than the killing of the animals itself. I have been curious if all animals were just wild or free range and taken care of all nice like would most go back to eating meat or even just drinking milk etc?

That's the first time that I've heard that. That is a much better explanation than "It's not fair". So, do you eat honey? Or free range eggs? Or grass fed beef?
*I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just like to understand other's choices.

srp2011

"I would have no problem if I milked the cow. I have a problem with how these cows are kept and impregnated and stuffed full of crap to keep producing. If we went back to the natural order of things, I would be a meat eater."[/quote]

This quote thing is not working ^^^^^

I have always wondered that. I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who are more against the way the animals are treated than the killing of the animals itself. I have been curious if all animals were just wild or free range and taken care of all nice like would most go back to eating meat or even just drinking milk etc?
[/quote]

I'm a pescatarian who will on rare occasion eat meat, and my problem is mostly with the way the animals are kept and treated, and the hormones and stuff used to grow them bigger on factory farms. I used to love chicken growing up, but noticed it didn't taste as good over the past 10-15 years - and when I wtached Food Inc, I understood why - these birds practically aren't even chickens anymore - they are just artificial hormone- and antibiotic-laced meat factories with legs. I will occasionally get grass-fed organic beef (sorry, addicted to it in my spaghetti sauce), and it tastes completely different than what is in the average grocery. I don't think I would ever go back to being a full-fledged carnivore even if the industry cleaned up it's act, but I don't have as much of a problem when the animals have decent or wild living conditions, and I don't get upset at folks who hunt wild animals to actually eat - although I do have problems with trophy hunters and people who shoot things just for sick fun.

ajbeans

If he brings it up again, remind him that the veal industry is largely driven by the dairy industry. Cows need to have a baby to make milk, so the farmers breed the cows, kill off any babies not needed for future breeding and sell them for veal, and take the mama cow's milk that was intended for her baby. Also remind him that humans are the only mammal who willingly consumes the milk of another mammal, and who does so past childhood. Milk is intended for babies, not for adults, and it's never intended for other species.

SiltyPigeon

I don't get upset at folks who hunt wild animals to actually eat - although I do have problems with trophy hunters and people who shoot things just for sick fun.

I eat meat. I like meat. (I had a corn dog for lunch). But I also hate trophy hunters and people who shoot things for fun. How is killing something fun? My husband used to shoot squirrels just for the heck of it. I put a stop to that right quick.

suzycreamcheese

i never understand why people, when faced with a vegan, have to be all confrontational and start being horrible about it.

SiltyPigeon

If he brings it up again, remind him that the veal industry is largely driven by the dairy industry. Cows need to have a baby to make milk, so the farmers breed the cows, kill off any babies not needed for future breeding and sell them for veal, and take the mama cow's milk that was intended for her baby. Also remind him that humans are the only mammal who willingly consumes the milk of another mammal, and who does so past childhood. Milk is intended for babies, not for adults, and it's never intended for other species.

My dogs willingly drink milk.
Also... they're not mammals, but you should google ants milking honey dew from aphids. It's pretty neat. Minus the hormones and stuff, they treat aphids just like we treat cows. Build them shelters, protect them from predators, and milk them to consume their secretions.

It's almost Twilight Zone material!

aviduser

I was a vegetarian for about 15 years. I have now added fish back into my diet (but I have my own whacky rules about that too). My wife is vegan.

I find that people think that vegetarians/vegans are judging them for their dietary choices. Not sure why, but they are not comfortable with that.

Frankly, I don't care what you eat. But I don't need to hear anybody's opinion about my choices. I know what I am doing. :-)

While I do have some beliefs and moral guidelines that apply to my dietary choices, I do not tell others about them unless they ask. And I freely acknowledge that some of them are sort of arbitrary and can be viewed as whacky. That is fine.

Humans have the luxury of choosing what we want to eat--at least most in the developed world do. So I am exercising my choice.

BTW, my family STILL makes veg jokes. Which are still not really that funny.

srp2011

To each their own.

However, I really don't see any difference between the following things:

1.) Me taking milk from a cow.
2.) A bee taking pollen from a flower.
3.) An ant taking honey dew from aphids.
4.) A Brown-headed cow-bird laying eggs in another bird's nest.
5.) A wasp laying its eggs into the body of a caterpillar.
6.) Any scavenger or predator eating a carcass.
7.) Any number of animals taking eggs.
8.) Vampire bats drinking blood from live mammals.
9.) Rodents lining their burrows with the fur from other creatures.
10.) And so on and so forth.

It's not just about health.... eggs, honey, milk... they are all good for you.
So it must be about "morals". Basically, "it's not fair to take what doesn't belong to us". Right? But, like my Mama always said "Life ain't fair". A lion would eat you with out second thought if it had the opportunity and a coon would steal your lunch right from under nose. Evolution... survival of the fittest... this is the NATURAL order of things.

I just don't understand it.

The difference is that the bee and the ant and the vampire bats and the rodents are not cramming their food source into inhumane living conditions, shooting them up with chemicals and antibiotics, and generally torturing them along the way. The cows on a factory dairy farm are not 'happy cows'. Nor do insects and lower mammals have the ability to think and reason, so they are acting solely on instinct, and over millenia these relationships have evolved symbiotically so the actions are often integral to the life cycle in many cases (ie, bees taking pollen allows cross-pollination of other plants, etc...). I have respect for the smaller farmers who are trying to go back to the old-fashioned style of raising animals for food, where they are treated humanely throughout their life, and at the end killed in the most humane way possible.

srp2011

My dogs willingly drink milk.

They drink milk that you put in a bowl for them - they do not go out and hunt down lactating dogs and milk them to get their fix. Can't say I've ever seen a mother dog with a pack of adult dogs attached to her teats... Dogs will also eat bread and pasta and veggies and all kinds of weird things their humans feed them - it's not their natural food source, and generally the dogs that eat a lot of people food are overweight and less healthy.

cheeksv

"I would have no problem if I milked the cow. I have a problem with how these cows are kept and impregnated and stuffed full of crap to keep producing. If we went back to the natural order of things, I would be a meat eater."

This quote thing is not working ^^^^^

I have always wondered that. I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who are more against the way the animals are treated than the killing of the animals itself. I have been curious if all animals were just wild or free range and taken care of all nice like would most go back to eating meat or even just drinking milk etc?
[/quote]

I'm a pescatarian who will on rare occasion eat meat, and my problem is mostly with the way the animals are kept and treated, and the hormones and stuff used to grow them bigger on factory farms. I used to love chicken growing up, but noticed it didn't taste as good over the past 10-15 years - and when I wtached Food Inc, I understood why - these birds practically aren't even chickens anymore - they are just artificial hormone- and antibiotic-laced meat factories with legs. I will occasionally get grass-fed organic beef (sorry, addicted to it in my spaghetti sauce), and it tastes completely different than what is in the average grocery. I don't think I would ever go back to being a full-fledged carnivore even if the industry cleaned up it's act, but I don't have as much of a problem when the animals have decent or wild living conditions, and I don't get upset at folks who hunt wild animals to actually eat - although I do have problems with trophy hunters and people who shoot things just for sick fun.
[/quote]

quote thing not working lol

See but how are the fish treated compared to the other animals?When I was younger I went to a fish farm and all the fish were in a huge pond thingy and sectioned off, how is that different? I have a friend who claims she is a vegetarian but eats fish because they do not have feelings. i know she is a twit but, I also know so many people who think like her lol

I eat mostly chicken and fish and have cut out red meats for my diet. I also sometimes eat all vegetarian meals. I personally would love it if all animals were treated well.I know it is hard to imagine a carnivore who loves animals and wishes they were treated with respect even if we are gonna eat them later we do exist though haha...but I like the taste too much to give it up all together.
like you said. I also feel that as a country we eat too much meat as it is so I can understand and agree with not going full carnivore even if the animals are treated better.

Now correct me please if I am wrong because I am just curious. If anyone would eat some meats or use animal products again if said animals were treated better, why not buy all your products from farmers who do just that rather than not eat any at all?

ajbeans

If he brings it up again, remind him that the veal industry is largely driven by the dairy industry. Cows need to have a baby to make milk, so the farmers breed the cows, kill off any babies not needed for future breeding and sell them for veal, and take the mama cow's milk that was intended for her baby. Also remind him that humans are the only mammal who willingly consumes the milk of another mammal, and who does so past childhood. Milk is intended for babies, not for adults, and it's never intended for other species.

My dogs willingly drink milk.
Also... they're not mammals, but you should google ants milking honey dew from aphids. It's pretty neat. Minus the hormones and stuff, they treat aphids just like we treat cows. Build them shelters, protect them from predators, and milk them to consume their secretions.

It's almost Twilight Zone material!

As someone else pointed out, they'll drink or eat just about anything you put in their bowl. Wild dogs don't drink milk. And you're right, ants aren't mammals, and what they're taking from the aphids is not milk, so that example is really apples to oranges. It is cool though. My kids have a whole book about it.

ajbeans

And just for the record, I'm not vegan. Or even vegetarian. And I do consume dairy. But I was healthier when I didn't consume dairy, and as soon as I'm finished with this jug of protein powder, I'm going back off the dairy. But the protein powder just doesn't taste right mixed with V8. :-P

cheeksv

And just for the record, I'm not vegan. Or even vegetarian. And I do consume dairy. But I was healthier when I didn't consume dairy, and as soon as I'm finished with this jug of protein powder, I'm going back off the dairy. But the protein powder just doesn't taste right mixed with V8. :-P

I tried it with soy milk and even almond milk but it wont mix with either so I have gone back to skim milk.

SiltyPigeon

My dogs willingly drink milk.

They drink milk that you put in a bowl for them - they do not go out and hunt down lactating dogs and milk them to get their fix. Can't say I've ever seen a mother dog with a pack of adult dogs attached to her teats... Dogs will also eat bread and pasta and veggies and all kinds of weird things their humans feed them - it's not their natural food source, and generally the dogs that eat a lot of people food are overweight and less healthy.

Lol. That's an awesome visual! I can just see a pack of wolves sneaking up on a cow with buckets hanging from their snouts. Hahaha.

Dogs have been domesticated for around 15,000 years. I think it is safe to say that at this point that "whatever humans feed them" IS their natural food source. Whether it be dog food (which has only existed since the late 1800's) or "table scraps". Dogs started their journey to domestication by eating our garbage we left outside our camps. Stray dogs today usually forage in garbage cans. Most would die if left in the wild with out a source of human scraps because, unless trained to do so by people, they have lost the instincts and skills to successfully hunt for their food. (I work at an animal shelter and for a vet). Milk and milk products are often ingredients in dog food and in dog treats. I rarely give my dogs table scraps ONLY because I don't like them to beg at the table. So, milk, though they won't go hunt down a cow and milk it themselves (neither would I) COULD be considered a part of their natural food source.

chelraeb

I'm not a vegan (yet) but I'm a vegetarian and my husband is a vegan and we get all kinds of people telling us all sorts of stupid crap... people we know and people we have never seen before. I just usually look at them like I'm lost in a daze and don't understand a word they're saying. They shut up eventually. And I go on having a good time knowing that I'm doing the environment, the animals and myself a huge favor.

tross0924

And just for the record, I'm not vegan. Or even vegetarian. And I do consume dairy. But I was healthier when I didn't consume dairy, and as soon as I'm finished with this jug of protein powder, I'm going back off the dairy. But the protein powder just doesn't taste right mixed with V8. :-P

While not a Vegan, or Vegetarian myself I think the guy the OP was talking about would be classified as an *kitten*.

Eww V8 and protein powder sounds nasty :-p I usually use water, but for an extra "treat" I use vanilla soy milk. It doesn't mix well by hand, by 10 seconds in the magic bullet and it's smooth and delicious. Of course Whey protein probably doesn't work so well with going back off dairy lol so it might not be too relevant :-)