vegans did you know that.......

taurie

I'm sure that is the view of many dairy farmers; it's their livelihoods, but those cows are bred to produce lots of milk so it's their fault those cows die when their not milked. If people cut back on milk they will bred less dairy cows.

And the comment about being cruel to tomatoes is lame. Our bodies cannot survive without fruit or veg; same can't be said animal products.

jemmur

Mamagooskie, I think you just won Defensive Omnivore Bingo!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/smiteme/4170866438

mamagooskie

Mamagooskie, I think you just won Defensive Omnivore Bingo!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/smiteme/4170866438

LOL......that is funny!

mamagooskie

I'm sure that is the view of many dairy farmers; it's their livelihoods, but those cows are bred to produce lots of milk so it's their fault those cows die when their not milked. If people cut back on milk they will bred less dairy cows.

And the comment about being cruel to tomatoes is lame. Our bodies cannot survive without fruit or veg; same can't be said animal products.

I get it and that's the thing I didn't get defensive or say anything other than say I that I didn't want a steak because I don't eat meat. I brought my own meal and ate it but this guy just kept going on and on and on and on.

I didn't give him any facts or say anything neg about farming or neg about meat eaters I just told him that I disagree that cows die when not milked.

The rest was all him, nagging on me all night for like 4 hours!

Pangui

So, how does Forks Over Knives explain the fact that we didn't have all of these health problems over the last several thousand years of eating domesticated animals? I haven't watched the movie itself, but it sounds like an incredibly short sighted concept. Especially when they lump meat, dairy, and artificial processed foods all together. That seems to me like saying that I smoke and drink water, and got lung cancer, it must have been caused by the water.

Again, I haven't seen the movie, but just reading the synopsis makes it sound more like propaganda to shill their books and diet plans (which you can conveniently order right from their website.)

Actually, they explain in in great detail. They use decades of research and studies to back up their premise. Observation of civilizations living currently on the planet and in recent decades gives us the best evidence that a diet low in animal proteins and fats is the healthiest diet for humans. Many cultures have subsisted on a starch based diet with lots of vegetables and fruits as their main resources. Meat is eaten more as a side dish and not at every meal. Some of the studies seem to indicate that if you keep the animal protein intake under 5% you are probably doing just fine. Their suggestion to eliminate it entirely is based upon the premise that you gain nothing nutritionally from eating animal products that you couldn't gain eating a plant-based diet. In fact, the only source of cholesterol is from animal products. It's like a cigarette smoker just having an occasional cigarette or an alcoholic having an occasional drink. Your body can handle it, but it's still poison.

I have been on this new lifestyle since June 12th. Before that, I was just cutting back on my calories and I was losing about a pound a week. Since June 12th, without changing my caloric intake, I am now losing over 2 pounds per week. The first week I made the change, I lost 4 pounds. I had been dieting for 6 weeks before that. I now have more energy than ever before. I haven't felt this good in years and I have never enjoyed eating as much as I do now. Healthy food tastes so much better than it ever did before. For me, it has been a drastic improvement in the quality of my life and I am no longer a victim of my urges for cheesy fatty foods.

tigersword

In fact, the only source of cholesterol is from animal products. It's like a cigarette smoker just having an occasional cigarette or an alcoholic having an occasional drink. Your body can handle it, but it's still poison.

Wait, what? Poison? Cholesterol is essential for all animal life, including humans. It's used by the body to make hormones, cell membranes, and in the synthesis of Vitamin D. And, in actual fact, there are many plant sources of cholesterol. Particularly any oily plant, and the oils derived from them. In fact, avocado, sunflower seeds, peanuts, coconut oils, and olives are all sources of cholesterol. So if this is what Forks Over Knives is telling people, well, then, they're wrong, or just lying.

I eat many vegetarian and vegan dishes, as part of my approach of balanced eating. Not every meal needs meat, but that's doesn't mean that meat has no nutritional value to humans. My ancestors have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. To me, that means it's part of a staple diet. Is meat 100% required to live? Well, no, but neither are, say, potatoes. There are plenty of sources that can give the same nutrients as potatoes, so you don't need to eat potatoes to live either, but they certainly taste delicious (or not, depending on your taste buds.) I have all the respect for anyone and their food choices. I just choose to use actual fact when it comes to my food decisions, and what's best for me, may not be best for you. I see nothing wrong with eating vegan or vegetarian if that's your preference, but at the same time, the respect needs to go both ways. Use facts when talking about being vegan, not propaganda. And check your facts, especially if it's coming from a source with an obvious slant one way or the other.

taurie

It's curious as to why some meat eaters feel threatened by the vegan or vegetarian lifestyles and go on the attack.

billsica

Only got though the first page. I'm sure there are massive flame wars on all this.
I get to hear this all the time, as a vegetarian, and now a unfortunate pescoterian.

I never got up in anyone's face for eating meat, why does it bother them so much? Just really always bothers me, and ruins my day.

I have a few come backs.
"I was abused as a child by tomatoes"

Ms_Natalie

Hi guys, this thread contains some interesting responses, so in order for it to continue...please refrain from insulting each other. Report any posts which you find personal and/or offensive...please do not retaliate on the forums. I have edited some posts and deleted others that contained non on topic information.

Thank you!

Ms_Natalie

MyFitnessPal Forum Moderator :flowerforyou:

niste_ketlin

As far as people go, they can make their own dietary choices. I personally am not vegetarian, or vegan. I can understand why some would choose to be. But please everyone, (I saw the whole thing about dogs drinking milk) don't apply your dietary regulations to your pets. Dogs are carnivores. Just look at their teeth! They were meant to eat meat. Sure some will eat a vegetable (mine won't) but did the vast majority of us not eat junk food before we started our weightloss journeys? If something smells good, they'll eat it. Doesn't mean they were meant to.

I've mentored on proper pet nutrition. And I've seen the changes in going from kibble to home prepared, meat diets. I had an old Pit Bull x Beagle mix with severe hypothyroidism, and you can just imagine my joy when, after adjusting to her proper diet, her thyroid fixed itself and she was able to come completely off of her medications! She was like a puppy again!

Just my two cents.

Pangui

In fact, the only source of cholesterol is from animal products. It's like a cigarette smoker just having an occasional cigarette or an alcoholic having an occasional drink. Your body can handle it, but it's still poison.

Wait, what? Poison? Cholesterol is essential for all animal life, including humans. It's used by the body to make hormones, cell membranes, and in the synthesis of Vitamin D. And, in actual fact, there are many plant sources of cholesterol. Particularly any oily plant, and the oils derived from them. In fact, avocado, sunflower seeds, peanuts, coconut oils, and olives are all sources of cholesterol. So if this is what Forks Over Knives is telling people, well, then, they're wrong, or just lying.

I eat many vegetarian and vegan dishes, as part of my approach of balanced eating. Not every meal needs meat, but that's doesn't mean that meat has no nutritional value to humans. My ancestors have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. To me, that means it's part of a staple diet. Is meat 100% required to live? Well, no, but neither are, say, potatoes. There are plenty of sources that can give the same nutrients as potatoes, so you don't need to eat potatoes to live either, but they certainly taste delicious (or not, depending on your taste buds.) I have all the respect for anyone and their food choices. I just choose to use actual fact when it comes to my food decisions, and what's best for me, may not be best for you. I see nothing wrong with eating vegan or vegetarian if that's your preference, but at the same time, the respect needs to go both ways. Use facts when talking about being vegan, not propaganda. And check your facts, especially if it's coming from a source with an obvious slant one way or the other.

Actually, facts are very important to me. I don't possess to know all the answers, but I do understand the value of research. From what I have learned, plant foods, including sunflower seeds and avocados do NOT contain cholesterol. Sunflower seeds have "phytosterol" which actually lowers cholesterol. Avocado fat helps raise the body's "good" cholesterol (HDL) even though it does not contain cholesterol. Consuming cholesterol is a main contributing factor to our number one killer, heart disease.

I can appreciate skepticism. I tend to be skeptical myself. I am an engineer and I am detail-oriented. Perhaps that's why it took me 46 years to finally come around to this way of eating. I am not attacking anyone's choices, but I think it's important to have an open discussion. If you can point to a study that proves me wrong, then I thank you for increasing my knowledge. I admit I don't know everything.

Kristhin

I second Pangui. Your body still contains cholesterol naturally and there are foods which influence how much of it your body has...but plant based foods do not contain cholesterol. None of them do. If you're eating something you think is plant based that contains cholesterol, you're not eating something plant based. Check the ingredients. Even if it just says, "natural flavors" it could be derived from an animal source.

The ONLY nutrient meat provides which you could not get from eating a 100% natural plant based diet is vitamin B12. However, many vegetarian foods these days are fortified with B12. When you take this into consideration, why NOT live a compassionate lifestyle?

TeenaMarina

bonk

candb

I find that people think that vegetarians/vegans are judging them for their dietary choices. Not sure why, but they are not comfortable with that.

I'm a meat eater, but I think this holds true on more than dietary choices. It's like people think that if you choose something different than they do that you're indirectly criticizing their choice. I don't get that kind of insecurity and ignorance.

CatClark

He seemed okay with the idea of vegetarian although he wouldn't do it but vegan was just mindboggling to him. He said he couldn't live without dessert and I informed him that I have made many tasty non dairy desserts but apparently they couldn't possibly be "like this" (as he points to his cake)

Oh and one more thing.......this was his "Funny" little quote to plant based diets.......

I DON'T EAT WHAT FOOD EATS!

Oh, this guy clearly fancied the pants off you! Classic, immature school boy "steal your pencil case, get your attention" behavior. So desperate to get a rise / reaction, sorry you had to deal with such an idiot though :laugh:

I'm veggie. I never, ever jump down people's throat with my thoughts / opinions - but if someone starts making snide comments, or genuinely wants to know more about why I avoid meat etc, I'll happily tell them my reasoning.

For me, the "its no different to a dog catching and eating a rabbit / it's natural" thing never rang true. Over thousands of years we've evolved these great big brains which, among other things, give us a greater empathy for suffering. In the West, we are incredibly privileged to live in a society that enables us to live in a manner that does not necessitate the consumption of meat. It's as simple as that for me. I don't have to eat it, so I won't, thanks :blushing: