"Starvation." (All opinions wanted!)
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I'd do my juice fast before I'd do pure starvation. I'm taking in 950 to 1400 calories a day from 4 to 5 juices a day. Lost 34 lbs in 30 days. And I even ate 3 meals along the way or it would've been more. I have 40 more days to go! So, for 30 days I've been a raw vegan and I feel great! Much clearer mentally then before and no headaches.
But what I used to do is eat says 2000 calories and exercise off 800 of them for a total of 1200 on exercise days. Then I had to manage to stay under 1700 or 1600 for the other day with no exercise. And that didn't always work out. It worked out great on exercise days because I could eat some of those exercise calories and still have a great net for the day based on my goals.
People say never go below 1200 but they have medically supervised diets where people do 1200 or even 800 per day. Personally, I think one would need 1,200 a day net to have the energy to exercise day after day after day. But I'm curious to see what the results might actually be for someone doing 500 a day. Could be interesting if they survive.0 -
I guess it would depend on how long they did it. I have had many days where I don't even hit 1000 calories consumed and I still exercise. However, in the scenario mentioned I would have to go with with the second choice I think being somewhat active would trump sitting around any day
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Pshhh...Pants to both..PANTS!!!! :grumble:0
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The OP is my friend, i have seen this topic on her wall. I have beeen debating if i should post on this topic, I hae been watching it since last night.People keep on saying weird things that don't make sense. So I will post.
One question, "how do you define starvation mode?" Is it the loss of muscle mass due to a low caloric diet, or is it due to the body storing fat, or both? Wouldn't any diet without enough nutrients cause this effect regardless of calories i.e. eating 2000 calories of fat, or 2000 calories of straight carbs.
Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.0 -
I find it funny that when people ask for opinions they get offended...only the ones that usually feel guilty. However, I would ask an expert instead (doctor, nutritionist, etc.) Everyone will give you different answers whether you like them or not.0
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You can go google for yourself the clinical research on very low calorie diets (less than 800c a day). For obese people, they have a lot of merit in addition to rapid weight loss (which, as mentioned above, is a psychological boost that a lot of people need to get themselves in the right state of mind for an extended period of weight loss).
No one dies, no one's metabolism is permanently damaged, etc, etc, etc.
edit to add: and obviously dieting at any level is not the same as learning how to eat/what to eat/the importance of exercise/creating an overall healthy lifestyle
This!
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Of course the exercise option will be better. The person will be gaining cardio and muscle benefits of exercise.0
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Right because eating meat per se makes you so much more healthy. I am not a vegetarian but what a load of crap.
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.0 -
Right because eating meat per se makes you so much more healthy. I am not a vegetarian but what a load of crap.
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
I would pick meat over carbs any day.0 -
You mean you'd pick protein over carbs any day? Since when can vegetarians not eat protein? Protein can be found in plenty of other foods too.
Me? I'd pick a balanced diet (i.e., both carbs *and* protein) over carbs *or* protein any day.0 -
You mean you'd pick protein over carbs any day? Since when can vegetarians not eat protein? Protein can be found in plenty of other foods too.
Me? I'd pick a balanced diet (i.e., both carbs *and* protein) over carbs *or* protein any day.
I do an alkalarian diet, it's mostly green vegetables, and some hemp protein i take too. Yes there are a ton of amino acids in vegetables.
If I had to pick to eat one, meat or complex carbs, i'd eat meat.0 -
Well, luckily, we don't have to pick just one.0
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There's a couple things wrong with this post. The OP asks if we *personally* think one is better than the other, then asks for research. It wouldn't be personal if there were research involved... just saying
second, someone mentioned 800 calorie diets for obese people. The OP says this isn't about her, but I'm willing to bet that whoever it is about isn't obese. any 800 calorie a day diet would be used under doctor supervision for someone morbidly obese. not someone who needs to lose a few pounds. It sounds like disordered eating.
thirdly, either way you pick, it's disordered eating. so it's not an answer but i pick neither. someone who isn't morbidly obese doesn't need to be limiting their intake/net to 500 calories a day.
that's my two cents.0 -
I'd say 1200 with a high exercise burn is better. The reason being is ATLEAST the peron ate enough to survive and even was willing to move around... If they are typically sedentary that means that there will be more days with just 1200 eaten then not so I would go with that more. At least its sustainable for a lot longer than 500 a day which will do some horrible damage to your internal organs.
If they are exercising EVERY DAY and only eating 1200 well, that will NOT last long... eventually they will eat more or exercise less. 0 -
Both are detrimental, however I would always pick a diet that includes exercise over one that doesn't.0
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Here's my 2 cents! My mil eats only around 700 cals a day, yes she has lost a ton of weight, BUT...about 3 years ago she hurt her back at work and is still off on disability because it won't heal (she's been through intensive physio, tried almost everything), I am convinced that her back is not getting better because she doesn't have enough nutrients in her body to heal herself after her body burns what it needs to just to stay alive.
Of course this is just my personal opinion and there is nothing scientific behind it. If anyone knows of any info to support my theory i'd love to hear it. maybe then I could get her to listen and quit starving herself and living in pain!
So, in reply to the first poster I would say eat 1200, burn what you need to. At least you've got the nutrients in the body to start with!0 -
There is a group of people who do this thing CRON - Calorie Restriction/Optimal Nutrition. I read about it a long time ago and I don't know if they are still around, but they restrict calories (I can't remember how much) to be like these CRON mice that lived a super long time in an experiment (hoping that humans will be like the mice). They restrict calories quite a lot but they don't eat junk food, they control the nutrition in their diet quite strictly, and I think they don't really believe in eating a whole bunch just to burn it off.
I thought I'd put it out there, it's just another way of doing things... (it seems pretty extreme to me - not an easy or fun path).0 -
This.There's a couple things wrong with this post. The OP asks if we *personally* think one is better than the other, then asks for research. It wouldn't be personal if there were research involved... just saying
second, someone mentioned 800 calorie diets for obese people. The OP says this isn't about her, but I'm willing to bet that whoever it is about isn't obese. any 800 calorie a day diet would be used under doctor supervision for someone morbidly obese. not someone who needs to lose a few pounds. It sounds like disordered eating.
thirdly, either way you pick, it's disordered eating. so it's not an answer but i pick neither. someone who isn't morbidly obese doesn't need to be limiting their intake/net to 500 calories a day.
that's my two cents.0 -
Anybody else wanna put in their two cents?
I know you said it was hypothetical, but I figured I would add my experience:
When I was a teenager I heard on TV that nicole richie got slim by eating only 500kcals a day, so I wrote up a diary and I copied this
brekkie: porridge with water and multivitamins
lunch 50kcal light cupasoup
dinner: fish fillet and salad
EVERY SINGLE DAY for 2 months
plus i used to go to the gym and only pay for one class but stick around all day doing up to four classes a day til I thought I was going to faint.
I lost 28lbs in the first month and then it slowed down to 14lbs the next month.
Everyone told me I looked too skiny but I still wasnt satisfied and I still wanted to lose another 14lbs.
When I plateaud I stopped eating and drinking altogether and became anemic with my mum pushing me to the doctors every week with bruises and my hair falling out.
I never really considered myself to have an ED though
Within 1 year I gained back SEVENTY POUNDS and was heavier than when I started in the first place!!!
Sooooooo .... these are just my two cents LOL!
The above has been close to my experience. Stress and feeling like I am not getting results make me starve myself. I do get thinner, and then I quickly gain it back when I eat normally again.
I'd rather shed slower and look better / feel better.0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
What kind of vegetarians do you know? I've met a total of TWO who were like that. Everyone else is much more normal. I feel like meat-eaters are a larger population, and therefore more statistically likely to be junk food addicts.0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
What kind of vegetarians do you know? I've met a total of TWO who were like that. Everyone else is much more normal. I feel like meat-eaters are a larger population, and therefore more statistically likely to be junk food addicts.
Love this!
My BIL in a vegan. We cannot believe it! When I met him 5 years ago he was overweight, would never touch veg and lived on meat and carbs and high fat foods. He went veggie first and then vegan. He is so much healthier and is definitely not the junk food addict you seem to think 'most' veggies/vegans are.
Also a lot of my friends are veggies and my god are they skinny
Also a lot healthy and eat a well balanced diet. Probably a better diet than me who eats meat. However, I am in the UK so maybe its different in the US? But I doubt it 0 -
There's a couple things wrong with this post. The OP asks if we *personally* think one is better than the other, then asks for research. It wouldn't be personal if there were research involved... just saying
second, someone mentioned 800 calorie diets for obese people. The OP says this isn't about her, but I'm willing to bet that whoever it is about isn't obese. any 800 calorie a day diet would be used under doctor supervision for someone morbidly obese. not someone who needs to lose a few pounds. It sounds like disordered eating.
thirdly, either way you pick, it's disordered eating. so it's not an answer but i pick neither. someone who isn't morbidly obese doesn't need to be limiting their intake/net to 500 calories a day.
that's my two cents.
Totally agree 0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
What kind of vegetarians do you know? I've met a total of TWO who were like that. Everyone else is much more normal. I feel like meat-eaters are a larger population, and therefore more statistically likely to be junk food addicts.
Wow yeah as a vegan I assure you I hardly ever eat horribly, I avoid simple carbs and get plenty of protein in the foods I eat. I have increased my muscle mass and loss a ton of body fat. Keeping in mind I am coming from a heavy meat low carb diet, not the bad meats but fish, grilled chicken and the like. I feel a hundred times better since I have switched to veganism I cannot explain how great I feel, the energy I have, and the amazing difference I have in life now.
The protein myth is one that I always get fed up with as it is incredibly easy to get protein with superfoods such as beans: here is a chart from "The Kind Diet"
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if I had to choose, I'd say 1200 calories with the 700 burn would be better then the straight 500.... At least the 1200 is getting some kind of nutrients. 1200 calories net would be even better.
Ditto to this. That's why I eat back all of those delicious, nutrient-packed exercise cals. Food has more to it than just calories though; it depends what you're eating. There's a difference between marshmallows vs. salmon. 0 -
The exercise option would be better, since it would help maintain muscle mass and cardiovascular function. I think 500 net is probably too low for most folks, regardless, however.0
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Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
What kind of vegetarians do you know? I've met a total of TWO who were like that. Everyone else is much more normal. I feel like meat-eaters are a larger population, and therefore more statistically likely to be junk food addicts.
Wow yeah as a vegan I assure you I hardly ever eat horribly, I avoid simple carbs and get plenty of protein in the foods I eat. I have increased my muscle mass and loss a ton of body fat. Keeping in mind I am coming from a heavy meat low carb diet, not the bad meats but fish, grilled chicken and the like. I feel a hundred times better since I have switched to veganism I cannot explain how great I feel, the energy I have, and the amazing difference I have in life now.
The protein myth is one that I always get fed up with as it is incredibly easy to get protein with superfoods such as beans: here is a chart from "The Kind Diet"
Spinach has more amino acids than a steak.0 -
. When you are hungry you know you are hungry. I personally gained weight not through feeding my hunger but through my affection for loving to taste food. I can eat when not hungry just for something tasty. Yes I was a Glutton. :blushing:
Saaame here. I adore the taste and (as weird as THIS sounds) the feeling of swallowing the food xD Maybe I'm an odd person????
In short, if food were a man, I'd marry it. No if's and's or but's.0 -
Only the ones who eat badly, just like meat-eaters who eat badly...Don't most vegeterians lose their muscles, and put on some bodyfat, so they're in starvation mode?!?!?!
Yes and "most" vegeterians eat badly. They usually stuff their face with high carb food and sodas.
What kind of vegetarians do you know? I've met a total of TWO who were like that. Everyone else is much more normal. I feel like meat-eaters are a larger population, and therefore more statistically likely to be junk food addicts.
This goes back to "what is healthy?" Of course each person would say "my diet is the healthiest and best"
I am against breads, grains, pastas, rice, even fruit.0
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