Women strength training... for real

TavistockToad

Bunp before i get the sack for spending all day reading this thread!!!

deninevi

What are the thoughts on Body Pump?

stroutman81

What are the thoughts on Body Pump?

I've written about it elsewhere on this forum.

But in general, it's fine for a cardio effect. And for the person who's brand new to lifting weights, it can cause some concurrent body comp changes. But anything in the muscle department will be short lived since:

1. too much emphasis on fatigue rather than resistance
2. too little attention to form, which goes out the window in the face of fatigue
3. too little attention to progression and individuality

Read this thread for more in depth discussion of most circuit type training setups compared to what's ideal:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/276660-i-do-dvds-so-i-don-t-need-to-strength-train

deninevi

Thanks!
I did a Body pump last night-1hour of torture. i don't get the high reps. low weight thing. I probably won't do it again, as I just started New Rules of Lifting for Women -more my cup of tea!

NiciS72

OK, I've skimmed through this thread and didn't find what I wanted. I apologize if it's in here somewhere and I'm asking this anyway. So how can we determine how much weight to lift for each exercise? Last night I did weights for the first time in a few weeks (besides what I'm doing in JM 30 Day Shred). I was surprised that I could do much more than I thought and upped the weight on a few after the first set. My husband says that I'll know if it's the right weight if at the 8th rep I'm struggling. This seems counterintutitive to me. So what is your opinion on setting the right amount.

crisanderson27

OK, I've skimmed through this thread and didn't find what I wanted. I apologize if it's in here somewhere and I'm asking this anyway. So how can we determine how much weight to lift for each exercise? Last night I did weights for the first time in a few weeks (besides what I'm doing in JM 30 Day Shred). I was surprised that I could do much more than I thought and upped the weight on a few after the first set. My husband says that I'll know if it's the right weight if at the 8th rep I'm struggling. This seems counterintutitive to me. So what is your opinion on setting the right amount.

There's many opinions. Your husbands is very common...and not necessarily inaccurate. For myself, or anyone else doing 5x5 sets...you want a weight you can't do more than six or seven reps with on fresh muscles. So for example, dumbbell shoulder presses. Lets say I can do about 55lbs (on each dumbbell) with rested muscles seven times...but I'm seriously struggling on the seventh (or just barely can't complete that rep), and I can't even lift it an eighth. That tells me it's the right weight for me, for MY format of five reps, by five sets. By the time I'm on my fifth set at that weight...I sometimes can't complete it...and I'll do a sixth set with 5lbs or sometimes even10lbs less weight to make up for it. Basing it off this...I would assume, if you're doing say...3x8 or something like that, you'd want to pick a weight you are struggling with at 10 or so reps on fresh muscles.

I'm sure Steve will have a clearer set of instructions for you, assuming you're doing another format for sets and reps...but that's what works for 5x5.

stroutman81

Thanks!
I did a Body pump last night-1hour of torture. i don't get the high reps. low weight thing. I probably won't do it again, as I just started New Rules of Lifting for Women -more my cup of tea!

Don't get me wrong... there's a time and a place for high rep, light weight circuit training. No mode/dosage of exercise can be qualified or disqualified without context. I do tons of circuit training in my practice. For the goal of optimizing body composition in folks who aren't very overweight or obese though, I'd much sooner resort to heavier, intermittent strength work. It's what I'd prioritize at least.

stroutman81

OK, I've skimmed through this thread and didn't find what I wanted. I apologize if it's in here somewhere and I'm asking this anyway. So how can we determine how much weight to lift for each exercise? Last night I did weights for the first time in a few weeks (besides what I'm doing in JM 30 Day Shred). I was surprised that I could do much more than I thought and upped the weight on a few after the first set. My husband says that I'll know if it's the right weight if at the 8th rep I'm struggling. This seems counterintutitive to me. So what is your opinion on setting the right amount.

Here's what I had to say in another thread. Does this answer your question?

Strength training is tough. It's not supposed to feel light and easy. That light and easy feeling is reserved for metabolic conditioning such as cardio or circuit training. People often get tripped up gauging the efficacy of their exercise on how it feels. Unfortunately, very few of them understand how it's supposed to feel.

How heavy should you go though? That's a good question. Here's what we know...

We know that when we attempt to move a barbell, our nervous systems tell our muscles to generate force by shortening. It tells our muscles to get busy via electrical impulses that travel down from the brain, down the spinal cord and through the nerves that are connected to your muscles. A bunch of biochemistry happens at this point with the end product being muscular contraction. The greater the weight on the barbell, the greater the force that needs to be applied to it if it’s to move.

Just as with everything else, for adaptation/improvement to occur, you need to overload the system in question. In this case we’re talking about the neuromuscular system. Your nervous system and the muscles that it’s attached to all respond to progressive strength training as long as sufficient tension is generated.

Graphically it we can present this like:

http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/stroutman81/Training/?action=view&current=Tension-TimeGraph.jpg

Did you actually check out the link? If not, be sure to do so so that you understand what I'm about to say. It's important.

Anything above the threshold line represents an overload. You can think of the area under the curves and above the threshold line as the magnitude of stress that represents overload. The higher the tension that’s required in a given effort, the shorter that effort will last, which should be obvious. If I asked you to bench press 250 lbs you might get 1 repetition that lasts 3-5 seconds (curve 1). If I asked you to bench 200 lbs you might get 8 repetitions that takes you 40-60 seconds (curve 2).

As you can see, you can have a tall and thin stimulus for improvement (curve 1) or a short and wide stimulus for improvement (curve 2). There are multiple ways of generating an overload, which is why a “magical” set and rep combination doesn’t exist.

We measure force in pounds and define it as intensity. Intensity is the proximity of the weight being lifted to your maximum ability. In the above example, 250 lbs would be your maximum effort or 100% intensity. 200 lbs is 80% of 250 so it is 80% intensity.

The threshold of intensity that’s required for adaptation to take place is roughly 65%-70% on average. Anything above that will “work.” It’s also important to note that as the lifter becomes more advanced, the higher this threshold will be. In other words, the threshold itself adapts to training.

As an example of how you can use this model to think about training, let’s look at circuit training. Circuit training typically involves using a high volume of exercise with little rest between movements and high reps. This can build muscular endurance, improve cardiovascular conditioning, and increase mental toughness. But feeling the burn is not a prerequisite for strength gain. In circuit training, due to the lack of rest between sets, fatigue interferes with the ability to lift weight. This in turn reduces the tension at the muscle level thus providing less of a signal for strength gain. In other words, if we were to draw a curve for circuit training on the above graph, even at its peak it would be below the threshold line.

And no, I don't recommend training to failure. Within the 12 to 15 rep range, failure is predominantly a neurological phenomenon and it's not doing much at the local, muscle level. The risk/reward to training to failure simply isn't there.

I'm sure some of you want more applicable information than the above... so here goes.

With my clients I simply set a target rep range and let them know how it should "feel." Generally speaking, reps dictate weight as higher rep ranges require the use of lighter weights and lower rep ranges allow for more weight to be used. Granted, I could set the rep range at 8-12 and you could select a weight that you could easily do 30+ reps with, but stop at 8-12, but that would disregard the whole "how it should feel" qualifier.

So how should it feel?

You want to be using loads that feel heavy, but not so heavy that you're having to "grind" the weight up. By grind, I mean the weight goes up at a snail's pace as you shake and struggle to move the bar or dumbbell each and every inch. If I subscribe 8 reps for instance, I expect my clients to use a weight that has them reaching 8 reps with 1.. maybe 2 reps left in the tank.

I also like to use RPE (rating of perceived exertion) which I feel helps solidify how a weight should feel and thus what weight you should use. I like Mike Tuchscherer's scale the best which looks something like:

• 7: Maximal, no reps left in the tank at end of set
• 6: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank
• 5: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left
• 4: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”
• 3: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force
• 2: Most warm-up weights
• 1: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle

Most work as far as strength training goes should fall somewhere around a 5-6. Hopefully this helps?

The deal is though, don't worry about picking the "perfect" weight originally. PIck logical rep ranges... I'd say anywhere from 4-12 per set... and start with weights that are extremely easy. This will allow for perfect form. Once you're more than comfortable with form, as this is a critical component of effective training, then start slowly adding weight to each movement over time. Remember, it's not just using a weight that's "heavy enough." It's staying ahead of your body's homeostasis threshold. If you're using weights that your body doesn't "see" as a challenge to it's current condition, it's not going to change. So I'd argue that it's the progression that's more important than the load you're using at this moment.

So start light (relative to the reps you're shooting for) and progress from there.

nz_deevaa

Hi Steve,

I just wanted to thank you for all your advise. I've spoken to a PT at my gym who does some lifting competitively, so I hope that he'll be able to show me around the weights area etc

I don't know if he'll be the right trainer for me as yet, as he recommended I do an RPM class, but I won't hold that against him at this stage and I'll give him a chance in a PT session.

saugustin07

I just started lifting and I love it.I still have a lot to learn. It's a great workout compared to cardio! Cardio is not bad just in moderation! Its the best way to lose weight and tone up! I really wish more women would start lifting because there are so many benefits!

deninevi

Thanks!
I did a Body pump last night-1hour of torture. i don't get the high reps. low weight thing. I probably won't do it again, as I just started New Rules of Lifting for Women -more my cup of tea!

Don't get me wrong... there's a time and a place for high rep, light weight circuit training. No mode/dosage of exercise can be qualified or disqualified without context. I do tons of circuit training in my practice. For the goal of optimizing body composition in folks who aren't very overweight or obese though, I'd much sooner resort to heavier, intermittent strength work. It's what I'd prioritize at least.

I agree with you, but just somethings don't work for me-I mean I much more do few reps with heavy weights that swing 5-10lbs for 60 min. Any ways, there is something for every one.Thanks for all the great advise!

Victoria2448

I never could understand why women were so afraid of lifting weights? CRAZY!

I wish I had a dime for everytime I heard, I don't want to look like a bodybuilder...like that just happens over night by accident.:laugh:

Bottom line, you want to stay young, look good,lift weights.

Thanks for the info!

MaddameKat

I have skimmed tis thread ( i am at work so do not have all day) and want to add my 2p.

I really like the strong look in women and it is what i am aiming for now as i have tried for the soft think look and failed as i had no goal/ drive to keep me going. However i thought i mention something else what is amazing for muscle building but seems to get missed out as serious exercise, pole dancing. The competetive side ( not the hen night parties) has some amazing women in it. If you google Zoraya Judd, Felix Cane, Oona Kivela you will find strong women with low body fat and the majority train with their own bodyweight alot of the time.

Just an example

crisanderson27

I have skimmed tis thread ( i am at work so do not have all day) and want to add my 2p.

I really like the strong look in women and it is what i am aiming for now as i have tried for the soft think look and failed as i had no goal/ drive to keep me going. However i thought i mention something else what is amazing for muscle building but seems to get missed out as serious exercise, pole dancing. The competetive side ( not the hen night parties) has some amazing women in it. If you google Zoraya Judd, Felix Cane, Oona Kivela you will find strong women with low body fat and the majority train with their own bodyweight alot of the time.

Just an example

Bodyweight strength training can be incredibly, incredibly productive. It's just a matter of finding the right leverage to properly stress your muscles...which with weight, is as simple as adding another plate. This is why most people just go with weights.

I switched to the gym from bodyweight (which I lost almost 40lbs in 3mos with) when 180lb handstand pushups were no longer challenging in a 5x5 format. Yes, I could have added a weighted vest etc...but it was just too much work finding hard enough exercises. What's really funny, is I can do 180lbs worth of handstand pushups 25 times (as I said), but I can only do about 100lbs (total) worth of dumbbell shoulder presses in the same 5x5 format. That gives me a LOT more range, with weights.

Domestica

I so needed to see this today! It just made me realize I'm not getting where I really want and I only have myself to blame...I have a personal trainer but he still is not really putting me in the weight room that much... I've been afraid to attempt it on my own, but this really encouraged me. Now I just need to get a good starting routine and work from there.

Thank you for posting!

Dude! If you're paying for a personal trainer and she's not getting you into the weight room -- FIRE HER!!! That's the whole freakin' point!

KarmaxKitty

I need to come back and read this. I LOVE lifting. I HATE when other women in the gym look at me like I'm insane for not picking up stupid pink weights... I can't wait to get back into it, haha.

I always thought to myself: in the post apocalyptic world, all the really hot women are doing three things---

1. sprinting

2. kicking butt/training

3. lifting REALLY REALLY giant, heavy, loaded with ammo guns.

Which is part of the reason their bodies are non-mechanical machine. XD

Yay lifiting!!!

MissMaggie3

Already converted - the benefits are huge, and not just for how you look. If you are at risk of osteoporosis, weight training is the thing to do - an investment for your future health and well-being. I'm a longstanding vegetarian and in my 50s. I'm happy to say that my bones are in the top strength category for my age, which the medics put down to working with weights.

smkey

That video was pretty darn cool. It inspired me to see what I can do for the power squats. :bigsmile:
I just did drop-downs with my trainer yesterday (I'm cursing his name a little today)... 350 for 10 reps then 300 for 15 reps then 250 for 20 reps x 3 sets. My legs and glutes are seriously angry today, but it was fun. I love feeling powerful!

stroutman81

Are you saying you were doing squats with 350 lbs?

crisanderson27

Are you saying you were doing squats with 350 lbs?

What he said.

kensky

I'm on a doctor ordered hiatus from lifting (due to ectopic pregnancy recovery...big fun) and during this twitchy down time I ordered Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength. My original plan for October was to do another round of Level 7 (a high-rep level) but I think the round I did to finish the New Rules of Lifting for Women will do. I am so excited to start really focusing on these basic compound lifts!

lisaisso

BUmP

Crowhorse

I'm not sure if you've read this thread... but women can't get bulky unless they've some serious hormone imbalances. And if you're dieting.... which most of the women around here are... you're definitely not going to be adding appreciable muscle. Heck, even guys who are dieting aren't going to be adding appreciable muscle while dieting.

Look how heavily the women in the video are lifting. They've built up to those loads over extended periods of time. Would you call them bulky?

Toning is about fat loss. Not strength training or whatever.

First off, I don't diet, because I don't believe in dieting. Second, in oder for a man or woman to get bulk, they have to take something and eat a lot to get to that point. It's not easy for a man to get bulk as well. What a lot of people don't realize is that, woman have man in her, hint wo man. If a woman lifts weights like a man and take things like a man, she will bulk like a man.

I strength train to tone my body. I can speak for my body, no one else can.

While this is probably not a very useful point to make, I will say that the notion of man/woman is a contemporary error of an increasing sexist application of language. That is, the etymological root, and denotative definition, of man is as a universal term for human, wifman is the root of woman/female and werman the term used for male. Eventually, the wer was just dropped, and man took on a connotative use as a synonym for male. As such, it is a mistake to assume that the language of gender implies that woman carry some maleness in them (whatever Genesis has to say about the matter), rather, it just implies that language has some sexism in it. And, none of it is applicable to the biology of exercise science.

Considering women are XX and men are XY we can honestly say that every man has a bit of woman in them. ;-)

kensky

I have been lurking until my doctor gave me the all-clear to get back to lifting and while waiting around I ordered Mark Ripptoe's Starting Strength. It's finals week for me so I cannot really dig in like I am dying to but--WOW--I can't wait to get back in the gym and start from scratch with my form. I'll be starting the program outlined in his book starting October 16th!

calderst

I always thought to myself: in the post apocalyptic world, all the really hot women are doing three things---

1. sprinting

2. kicking butt/training

3. lifting REALLY REALLY giant, heavy, loaded with ammo guns.

Which is part of the reason their bodies are non-mechanical machine. XD

Yay lifiting!!!

Yes. And those of us with enough forethought are already practicing.

MsQt

My belly isn't right all the way yet but I love strength training

CommittohealthCHANGED

Bump

Rae6503

I'm totally impressed MsQt!

MsQt

I'm totally impressed MsQt!

Thank you very much!

deninevi

My belly isn't right all the way yet but I love strength training

You look great!