Women strength training... for real

Kalrez

I missed this. I just started reading The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women and it insists that even women don't need a ton of cardio to get the body they want. Another blog I read (by OP I think) said cardio is really just to help with calorie deficit. I can lift and eat 1700 or I can lift, do cardio and eat 2300.... I chose cardio.

Are their benefits to cardio aside from creating a larger calorie deficit?

While I am interested in becoming more toned and lean, I also want to be able to run around, goof off, and walk up stairs without getting winded. Could I get those results by lifting alone? Or should I mainly lift with a side of light cardio?

crisanderson27

I missed this. I just started reading The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women and it insists that even women don't need a ton of cardio to get the body they want. Another blog I read (by OP I think) said cardio is really just to help with calorie deficit. I can lift and eat 1700 or I can lift, do cardio and eat 2300.... I chose cardio.

Are their benefits to cardio aside from creating a larger calorie deficit?

While I am interested in becoming more toned and lean, I also want to be able to run around, goof off, and walk up stairs without getting winded. Could I get those results by lifting alone? Or should I mainly lift with a side of light cardio?

My suggestion is the latter. I happen to have a very active job...which is part of what allows me to remain well rounded without improving my cardiovascular health via direct exercise (that and living at 5000' elevation). Cardio is worth it for heart and lung health, but is totally unnecessary in my opinion for fat loss.

Kalrez

I missed this. I just started reading The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women and it insists that even women don't need a ton of cardio to get the body they want. Another blog I read (by OP I think) said cardio is really just to help with calorie deficit. I can lift and eat 1700 or I can lift, do cardio and eat 2300.... I chose cardio.

Are their benefits to cardio aside from creating a larger calorie deficit?

While I am interested in becoming more toned and lean, I also want to be able to run around, goof off, and walk up stairs without getting winded. Could I get those results by lifting alone? Or should I mainly lift with a side of light cardio?

My suggestion is the latter. I happen to have a very active job...which is part of what allows me to remain well rounded without improving my cardiovascular health via direct exercise (that and living at 5000' elevation). Cardio is worth it for heart and lung health, but is totally unnecessary in my opinion for fat loss.

That's what I assumed, just wanted some confirmation from someone who's been at it longer than me.

I'm just excited to know that it's "okay" to switch gears and lay off the cardio a bit. I hate it, but I made myself do it because I through that you just had to. That's the thing ya do, right? I enjoy lifting, so it will be a welcome change of pace to lift more and treadmill less!

jenomaha

Bahahahaha!! Sorry, I couldn't help myself :laugh: Carry on!

Rae6503

I missed this. I just started reading The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women and it insists that even women don't need a ton of cardio to get the body they want. Another blog I read (by OP I think) said cardio is really just to help with calorie deficit. I can lift and eat 1700 or I can lift, do cardio and eat 2300.... I chose cardio.

Are their benefits to cardio aside from creating a larger calorie deficit?

While I am interested in becoming more toned and lean, I also want to be able to run around, goof off, and walk up stairs without getting winded. Could I get those results by lifting alone? Or should I mainly lift with a side of light cardio?

That is my question too. I like the "fitness" being in good cardio shape gives me. The ability to mountain bike, play rugby, hike, snowboard, etc. So as I plan to start increasing my strength I wonder how much cardio I need to keep in order to maintain this cardiovascular fitness. Is it 45min 3 times a week? Less? More? (I haven't finished my book, maybe it answers this question)

CyclingDiva

:laugh: BAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!! LOVE IT!!! :laugh:

You all need to pick up the book "Younger next year". I'm only 39, but I still found it a great book to read! So...pass the popcorn and get to reading! :flowerforyou:

SMarie10

Re: reps--12 reps seems to be my "mental" limit now that I've gotten used to (hooked!) on lifting heavy for 6 to 8 reps. I'm on the last stage of New Rules of Lifting for Women now and it's got a component where it's 15 to 20 reps. It's killing me! I plan on starting Rippetoe's Starting Strength program after that and I'm so looking forward to low reps/high weight.

When I work with my trainer, we end up varying the reps - but generally stick to 10 reps / 4 sets. When I lift on my own, I work out longer and try to do 15 reps X four sets - increasing the weight with each subsequent set. Because I'm coming off knee surgery, I'm doing really light weight for my legs, and much heavier for back - shoulder- arms.
Another question to throw out there. How do you vary your strength training for different body parts - i.e. do legs one day, arm next day, back - shoulder, etc. I try to mix in some legs with arms each time and end with abdominals.

VegGrrl

AWESOME VID!!!!!!!!!! Those grrls are rockin' it! Love to see women who ain't afeard of the IRON!! Thanks OP!

Hirundo

Very good eyes opener ! thanks you

OneBryteSmile

Bump for later reading

OneBryteSmile

Finally read through all 6 pages of this thread. So glad I saw this. Great discussion! It was perfect timing as I have been more concerned about my current training resulting in muscle mass loss. I've been running three times a week for the past 9 weeks and I started Insanity August 1st (just completed month 1 yesterday). I have lost a lot of weight since starting my journey but I don't feel I have built lean muscle definition and I'm getting paranoid of becoming "skinny fat".

I know it will take time to reach my goals but I want to make sure I am training my body the right way now while losing weight. I've tried to throw in strength training but I know it hasn't been consistent or enough. I don't have a gym membership and I don't plan on joining a gym anytime soon again. I have started using the plan at bodybuilding.com here - http://www.bodybuilding.com/guides/female-20to39-fat-loss/training. I have modified it a bit since I am doing the routine at home and because I'm still running and doing insanity.

I was thinking of cutting back running to twice a week and doing strength training three times a week and continue following the insanity schedule for month 2 which is 6 days a week. It will look something like this:

Sunday - REST
Monday - Run, Insanity
Tuesday - Strength (upper body), Insanity
Wednesday - Insanity
Thursday - Strength (lower body), Insanity
Friday - Run, Insanity
Saturday - Strength (full body), Insanity

OR, I am wondering if I should cut back Insanity to 5 days a week, run 3 days a week and strength 3 days a week.

Another thing, my daily calorie goal is set to 1400 now. Some days I eat more, depends on how hungry I am. I keep wondering if I need to up my calories when I start strength training. Running and Insanity already make me very hungry.

I'm really new to this whole fitness thing so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! :happy:

questionablemethods

Sunday - REST
Monday - Run, Insanity
Tuesday - Strength (upper body), Insanity
Wednesday - Insanity
Thursday - Strength (lower body), Insanity
Friday - Run, Insanity
Saturday - Strength (full body), Insanity

I am by no means qualified to speak on this, but that sounds like a brutal schedule! From what I have heard from numerous fitness professionals, more is NOT more when it comes to exercise, at least in terms of getting lean and strong, if that is your goal. I have heard that too much intense exercise can elevate cortisol levels, which causes us to hang on to body fat, which is counter to what most of us here are looking for. I'm guessing that doing strength on those days is enough and that strength plus Insanity might be too much, but I guess I'm interested in what people more "in the know" have to say.

NiciS72

Bump for later!

stroutman81

I really should take a photo of myself and post it here the next time I'm doing deadlifts. I routinely pull 225 for 5 reps and I weigh 125 pounds. I have fairly muscular legs, but that's mostly a happenstance of genetics. The rest of me is lean, but not bulky. Most people have no idea I lift heavy, based on my size. This whole "bulking up" myth is very irksome.

Ladies, lift heavy!

What's even more irksome is when a woman watches a video, such as you pulling 225, and they'll still harp about heavy weights making women bulky. Seeing isn't even believing for some. At which point I chalk them up as a lost cause.

"Who needs a balanced approach? I'll apply only one form of stress to my body and leave all the other potential benefits on the table."

stroutman81

I totally agree with the OP on this, and am perplexed with my women friends - In real life who never lift any weights and are really surprised when I explain to them that it's part of my normal workout. I look forward to the weight lifting much more than the cardio parts of my workouts. I just turned 50, and if lifting will help me maintain my muscle mass, you bet I'm going to be dedicated to doing it all the time.
My only question is how to determine the right amount of weight to be lifting. I don't completely understand when a weight is considered Heavy vs. normal. Any advice there?

I linked to another thread on MFP where I explained how to select a weight. Let me copy and paste from it:

Strength training is tough. It's not supposed to feel light and easy. That light and easy feeling is reserved for metabolic conditioning such as cardio or circuit training. People often get tripped up gauging the efficacy of their exercise on how it feels. Unfortunately, very few of them understand how it's supposed to feel.

How heavy should you go though? That's a good question. Here's what we know...

We know that when we attempt to move a barbell, our nervous systems tell our muscles to generate force by shortening. It tells our muscles to get busy via electrical impulses that travel down from the brain, down the spinal cord and through the nerves that are connected to your muscles. A bunch of biochemistry happens at this point with the end product being muscular contraction. The greater the weight on the barbell, the greater the force that needs to be applied to it if it’s to move.

Just as with everything else, for adaptation/improvement to occur, you need to overload the system in question. In this case we’re talking about the neuromuscular system. Your nervous system and the muscles that it’s attached to all respond to progressive strength training as long as sufficient tension is generated.

Graphically it we can present this like:

http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/stroutman81/Training/?action=view&current=Tension-TimeGraph.jpg

Did you actually check out the link? If not, be sure to do so so that you understand what I'm about to say. It's important.

Anything above the threshold line represents an overload. You can think of the area under the curves and above the threshold line as the magnitude of stress that represents overload. The higher the tension that’s required in a given effort, the shorter that effort will last, which should be obvious. If I asked you to bench press 250 lbs you might get 1 repetition that lasts 3-5 seconds (curve 1). If I asked you to bench 200 lbs you might get 8 repetitions that takes you 40-60 seconds (curve 2).

As you can see, you can have a tall and thin stimulus for improvement (curve 1) or a short and wide stimulus for improvement (curve 2). There are multiple ways of generating an overload, which is why a “magical” set and rep combination doesn’t exist.

We measure force in pounds and define it as intensity. Intensity is the proximity of the weight being lifted to your maximum ability. In the above example, 250 lbs would be your maximum effort or 100% intensity. 200 lbs is 80% of 250 so it is 80% intensity.

The threshold of intensity that’s required for adaptation to take place is roughly 65%-70% on average. Anything above that will “work.” It’s also important to note that as the lifter becomes more advanced, the higher this threshold will be. In other words, the threshold itself adapts to training.

As an example of how you can use this model to think about training, let’s look at circuit training. Circuit training typically involves using a high volume of exercise with little rest between movements and high reps. This can build muscular endurance, improve cardiovascular conditioning, and increase mental toughness. But feeling the burn is not a prerequisite for strength gain. In circuit training, due to the lack of rest between sets, fatigue interferes with the ability to lift weight. This in turn reduces the tension at the muscle level thus providing less of a signal for strength gain. In other words, if we were to draw a curve for circuit training on the above graph, even at its peak it would be below the threshold line.

And no, I don't recommend training to failure. Within the 12 to 15 rep range, failure is predominantly a neurological phenomenon and it's not doing much at the local, muscle level. The risk/reward to training to failure simply isn't there.

I'm sure some of you want more applicable information than the above... so here goes.

With my clients I simply set a target rep range and let them know how it should "feel." Generally speaking, reps dictate weight as higher rep ranges require the use of lighter weights and lower rep ranges allow for more weight to be used. Granted, I could set the rep range at 8-12 and you could select a weight that you could easily do 30+ reps with, but stop at 8-12, but that would disregard the whole "how it should feel" qualifier.

So how should it feel?

You want to be using loads that feel heavy, but not so heavy that you're having to "grind" the weight up. By grind, I mean the weight goes up at a snail's pace as you shake and struggle to move the bar or dumbbell each and every inch. If I subscribe 8 reps for instance, I expect my clients to use a weight that has them reaching 8 reps with 1.. maybe 2 reps left in the tank.

I also like to use RPE (rating of perceived exertion) which I feel helps solidify how a weight should feel and thus what weight you should use. I like Mike Tuchscherer's scale the best which looks something like:

• 7: Maximal, no reps left in the tank at end of set
• 6: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank
• 5: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left
• 4: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”
• 3: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force
• 2: Most warm-up weights
• 1: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle

Most work as far as strength training goes should fall somewhere around a 5-6. Hopefully this helps?

The deal is though, don't worry about picking the "perfect" weight originally. PIck logical rep ranges... I'd say anywhere from 4-12 per set... and start with weights that are extremely easy. This will allow for perfect form. Once you're more than comfortable with form, as this is a critical component of effective training, then start slowly adding weight to each movement over time. Remember, it's not just using a weight that's "heavy enough." It's staying ahead of your body's homeostasis threshold. If you're using weights that your body doesn't "see" as a challenge to it's current condition, it's not going to change. So I'd argue that it's the progression that's more important than the load you're using at this moment.

So start light (relative to the reps you're shooting for) and progress from there.

stroutman81

I'm not sure if you've read this thread... but women can't get bulky unless they've some serious hormone imbalances. And if you're dieting.... which most of the women around here are... you're definitely not going to be adding appreciable muscle. Heck, even guys who are dieting aren't going to be adding appreciable muscle while dieting.

Look how heavily the women in the video are lifting. They've built up to those loads over extended periods of time. Would you call them bulky?

Toning is about fat loss. Not strength training or whatever.

First off, I don't diet, because I don't believe in dieting. Second, in oder for a man or woman to get bulk, they have to take something and eat a lot to get to that point. It's not easy for a man to get bulk as well. What a lot of people don't realize is that, woman have man in her, hint wo man. If a woman lifts weights like a man and take things like a man, she will bulk like a man.

I strength train to tone my body. I can speak for my body, no one else can.

Well while you're doing that... I'm speaking of human physiological principles that apply to all of us.

If you choose not to subscribe though... that's fine by me. Best to ya!

stroutman81

I missed this. I just started reading The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women and it insists that even women don't need a ton of cardio to get the body they want. Another blog I read (by OP I think) said cardio is really just to help with calorie deficit. I can lift and eat 1700 or I can lift, do cardio and eat 2300.... I chose cardio.

Are their benefits to cardio aside from creating a larger calorie deficit?

While I am interested in becoming more toned and lean, I also want to be able to run around, goof off, and walk up stairs without getting winded. Could I get those results by lifting alone? Or should I mainly lift with a side of light cardio?

Yes, there are definitely other physiological benefits to conditioning work. It's simple... if you're in this solely for fat loss... then no, you don't need any form of conditioning/cardio work. If you're in this for optimizing health and performance, which is the case with me, some individually tailored conditioning is likely called for.

stroutman81

Finally read through all 6 pages of this thread. So glad I saw this. Great discussion! It was perfect timing as I have been more concerned about my current training resulting in muscle mass loss. I've been running three times a week for the past 9 weeks and I started Insanity August 1st (just completed month 1 yesterday). I have lost a lot of weight since starting my journey but I don't feel I have built lean muscle definition and I'm getting paranoid of becoming "skinny fat".

I know it will take time to reach my goals but I want to make sure I am training my body the right way now while losing weight. I've tried to throw in strength training but I know it hasn't been consistent or enough. I don't have a gym membership and I don't plan on joining a gym anytime soon again. I have started using the plan at bodybuilding.com here - http://www.bodybuilding.com/guides/female-20to39-fat-loss/training. I have modified it a bit since I am doing the routine at home and because I'm still running and doing insanity.

I was thinking of cutting back running to twice a week and doing strength training three times a week and continue following the insanity schedule for month 2 which is 6 days a week. It will look something like this:

Sunday - REST
Monday - Run, Insanity
Tuesday - Strength (upper body), Insanity
Wednesday - Insanity
Thursday - Strength (lower body), Insanity
Friday - Run, Insanity
Saturday - Strength (full body), Insanity

OR, I am wondering if I should cut back Insanity to 5 days a week, run 3 days a week and strength 3 days a week.

Another thing, my daily calorie goal is set to 1400 now. Some days I eat more, depends on how hungry I am. I keep wondering if I need to up my calories when I start strength training. Running and Insanity already make me very hungry.

I'm really new to this whole fitness thing so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! :happy:

I don't know much about insanity... but assuming it's high intensity circuits... I'd say that's way too much work.

More importantly though... what are your goals. There are no right/wrong ways to structure things without taking context into consideration.

JME67550

I've actually been doing the bodybuilding.com women's workout bible workout for several weeks. It's close to one that I'd put together for myself a few years ago.

I'm a believer in lifting heavy. I know I won't bulk like a man, but I like knowing that I can hold my own in a weight room. I've had men comment on how much I lift and have had women ask how to get shoulders and a stomach like mine. For those who do countless reps with little to no resistance, wouldn't you feel better knowing that your effort is actually accomplishing something? I know I do!

OneBryteSmile

I don't know much about insanity... but assuming it's high intensity circuits... I'd say that's way too much work.

More importantly though... what are your goals. There are no right/wrong ways to structure things without taking context into consideration.

Insanity is high intensity, extreme cardio. It's as its name says, it's insane. That combined with running has been brutal but I run in the morning and do insanity in the evening so it hasn't been too difficult. Now with adding in more strength, yea it could get brutal. My goal is to get down to a healthy weight (whatever that may be but currently aiming for about 140-145 but that is subject to change - I currently weigh 171). I also want to build lean muscle and tone - don't want to be "skinny fat". I still want to look feminine but strong. Think Beyonce. I'm a very curvy girl and that won't go away so I'm not trying to be skinny or look like that zuzanna girl that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Thanks