Women strength training... for real

carmenstop1

Bump for my topics~

Funkysuelee

I agree as well i can literally see the difference in my body morphing into the body that i want when i do weight training and This post is great. i was in such a cuffufle about weather or not i should be lifting so much weights but It makes sense to gain muscle as you lose weight as it will burn fat at a faster rate.... another point is that i was scared of bulking up but the amount of effort people put into bulking up is no where near enough what i do to bulk up like that.... so thanks for this thread it's awsome. I am going to continue to increase my weights.....

lennykat

bump for later as well.

I LOATHE, HATE, CRY OVER IT.....cardio.

I learned just in the past two weeks that killing myself with cardio isn't doing anythying but making me HATE working out. It apparently was having a detrimental effect on my fat loss.

With my new routine... I strength train 3x a week with just 20 minutes of the elliptical thrown in split uup between the weight sessions. My trainer told me that the key to all of this is actually enjoy exercising so that it will be a sustainable part of my life.

My trainer has introduced me to a different kind of cardio that I adore-- battling ropes. I've mentioned it here before. It's GREAT at getting the heart rate up and a good workout for upper body as well.

For someone coming off of knee lateral releases-- this form of non impact cardio is making a HUGE difference.

I also lift heavy and LOVIN' it~!

stroutman81

I've battling ropes at my gym as well... they're a great tool for conditioning. For general conditioning... I'm more inclined to do circuits with my clients than straight up "cardio" where you're on the treadmill, bike, elliptical or whatever. I opt for the circuits simply because my clients tend to enjoy them so much more.

I trained a guy this morning and we did 4 rounds of:

battling ropes - 40 seconds
jump rope - 60 seconds
kettlebell swings - 40 seconds
assisted pullups - to failure or 30 seconds
med ball squat to slams - 40 seconds
prowler push - 30 yards

20 minute workout that the client loved. If I had told him he'd be on the treadmill this morning, he likely wouldn't have come. Granted, I've used the treadmill and similar devices plenty. My point is... people get tunnel vision where they see the only way of going about conditioning is via traditional means. And you're right... it can lead to staleness.

reyna99

Bumping for later and for others, because I know its a good read!
thanks Steve!!

gerbies

Maybe I missed this, so I apologize for asking, but what about for obese people...who have 100+ lbs to lose...do you still recommend this approach? Or do you recommend the strength training, plus the additional cardio?

stroutman81

Maybe I missed this, so I apologize for asking, but what about for obese people...who have 100+ lbs to lose...do you still recommend this approach? Or do you recommend the strength training, plus the additional cardio?

This is an excellent question.

First, let me state that I generally always suggest a combination of strength training and conditioning/cardio regardless of goals. That said, with obese folks I'm more inclined to focus on reduced loads and continuous movement. Put differently, I'm not as concerned with the amount of weight lifted as I am with increasing the amount of calories expended.

For that reason, in this case I'd typically suggest some form of circuit training for the "strength" component of the programming. Lyle McDonald and I discussed this very topic in an interview a couple of years ago. You can check that out here:

http://body-improvements.com/articles/interviews/lyle-mcdonald-interview/

Check out the 4th question down.

crisanderson27

Cyclingdiva....this:



Rocks.

_gwen

+1

rhan90

Because each human body is so very different from every other human body?

I don't require you to follow my line of thinking. I don't even require that I comprehend yours. It sounds like you think I'm trying to force something on you...which would not only be futile on my end, this being the internet after all, but would also be a silly thing for you to believe...well, this being the internet and all lol.

Enjoy your cardio...and if it makes you happy, by all means, I am happy for you! Just be aware that there might be better ways to go about things...and don't be offended when people post threads trying to help you and others like you out by saying so. No one required you to reply...but by doing so, in a thread that clearly runs so counter to your stated beliefs...you most definitely opened yourself up for rebuttal.

That too...is a reality of the internet.

Edited to add:

If a woman lifts weights like a man and take things like a man, she will bulk like a man.

This is completely false.

I stand on what I have said. This is the internet and everyone needs to be true to their opinion.

There is a difference between an opinion and actual science. Science shows that men have very different hormone levels in their body compared to women. Hormones play a huge role in making men look like men, and women like women. Unless you work hard to overcome these factors and others (as a woman), you're simply not going to 'bulk like a man'.

If you don't want to strength train, then that's fine No one is going to make you. This board is about sharing information, including advice and politely correcting inaccuracies such as your belief that women will bulk like men if they lift like men. Good day.

dragonflydi

LOVE this link! Thanks for sharing

nam14uk

So much useful info on this thread but not enough time to read it all now! Bump for later. And thanks for sharing!

stroutman81

Glad you enjoyed the thread. If you have anything to add to it... questions, thoughts, whatever... please do.

amarie_1508

thank you for sharing this information. i cant wait to try some of your tips

Shanahan09

Thank you for posting this. I love working out with weights, and thankfully the extra lbs (ugh..FAT) on my frame are 'hidden' a bit better because of the added muscle I have gained over the years of weight training. So, ladies...work those muscles, the benefits are priceless!!

dovesgate

Bookmark for later.

Lozze

Thanks for this! I'm still really scared of the free weights section (haven't been able to go as I've been ill for the past week)

Really looking forward to lifting and being able to lift heavier! I love being strong!

I still do half an hour of hard cardio but I love my cardio and it's not work for me.

gracemleone

Hi, thanks for the great thread. This is just what I needed as I want to start strength training. Just a warning, this might be a long post..
I am a complete beginner, I have worked out with weights in the past but never kept doing it regularly enough to see results. It's been at least 6 months since my last attempt to start strength training but I feel I'm ready to commit to it this time.

I am trying to come up with a strength training plan and after reading this whole thread, I think I have a general idea of what to do. I will post my goals, my plan, and a few questions and it would be great if you could take the time to add/ correct/ make reccomendations to my plan.

I am 5'1 and 130lbs.
My goals are to:
1. Lose some fat. My goal is 110-115lbs but the number is not that important as long as I look lean.
2. Maintain muscle mass while losing fat, last thing I want to be is "skinny fat".
3. Perhaps add some weight in muscle once the fat is gone.
4. Improve overall cardiovascular fitness level.

My plan based on what I've learned from this thread:

1. Calorie deficit to lose fat. I am currently logging all foods and been doing good about the deficit.. so I'll keep doing this.
2. Strength training:
3 full body workouts every week on non-consecutive days, working all the large muscle groups, using the heaviest weight I can do 5-8 reps with. I only have dumbbells, a set of 4 and a set of 8lbs. I'm going to start out with the 4lbs until I learn correct form and then see if 8 is a good weight for a set consisting of 5-8 reps. If it's too easy, will go higher.
3. Cardio: I understand cardio isn't really necessary but I enjoy it for now and will keep doing it to aid with the deficit and to improve overall cardiovascular fitness. I currently do a 3 mile run in about 30-40 minutes 5-6 days a week. But I think I might cut down on that and do just 3 days on the same days I do strength training so I can give the muscles time to recover. It's probably not a good idea to do a full body workout one day and then go running the next day.

Even though I have the basic plan as outlined above, I still have some questions.

1. I work full time and also have school full time, so although I will make time for the plan I outlined, I would prefer it if there is a way to do things faster with the same results. For example, circuit training.. is this a good idea? I could combine my cardio and strength into 1 routine. But then I was thinking with all the cardio, maybe I would be too tired to lift heavy enough weights, especially since I am a beginner. What do you think?

2. How many sets? How many reps per set? How heavy?
I was thinking 5-8 reps with a weight that I'm able to do the whole thing with 1-2 reps left. Does this sound right? Or is it better to train until failure? And how many sets? I heard anything from 1 set being enough to anywhere up until 5 sets.

3. Lastly, what muscle groups for a full body workout? I want to improve my overall physique..
I would probably do shoulders, chest, back, biceps, triceps, abs, glutes, quads and hamstrings. These are the basics right? But then I see many routines that does calves, forearms, inner thighs, outer thighs, lower back, upper back etc.. Do I need to do seperate movements for all these or do the movements that work the basic, larger muscles already work the smaller muscles such as the forearm or inner thigh etc..

Thanks for reading so far, I know this has been long but I have so many questions and the more I read, the more I get confused..
Please feel free to add to my plan or make corrections/ reccomendations. :happy:

MadMoxie

Thank you so much for this thread, OP! I am and always will be a huge fan of lifting hard and heavy. I think women are almost (there's my qualifier) always pleasantly surprised at the results when they give it a chance. Fears of bulking aside, just being stronger is a wonderful feeling. Then again, that's entirely my opinion. I've never been afraid of a strong physique... it's just the fat that's gotta go!

stephyy4632

great thread bumping for later so I can read more.

So far I`ve really only worked with weight machines should I also include some free weight work? or will I be ok just going threw the machines at the gym ( I don`t have a trainer )

nz_deevaa

I'm obese (My current BMI is 44.6), and one day I hung around after my Zumba class to do a BodyPump class.

I know it's going to be said that BodyPump is more cardio than weights (because the weights aren't heavy enough), but for my body, which hadn't had much in the way of exercise in at least 10years, it's a work out.

I've stopped going to Zumba all together, and now do 3 BodyPump classes a week and I'm now losing weight much more consistently. Plus, I really like how my body feels... I can feel (some) firmness under my flab now. I do have some knee issues, but my back and hips no longer hurt all the time.

I'm interested in doing heavier lifting, but I'm scared of all the 20yr old buff boys in the weights section of the gym -- how do I get started? Is it best to get a PT?

cclaborn22

Thank you for posting this!! I agree that lifting for women gives them the tight and toned look they want. Not only that, but the more lean mass a woman builds, the more calories she burns just by sitting there. I am working towards my first figure competition in 3 weeks and since I have really started lifing heavy (for me), and eating the way I am...I am 5'8" 140lbs and 128lbs of that is muscle.

Please women do not worry so much about the scale, because this is the most I have weighed in my life. Think about lifting heavy, building and toning your physique is healthy for building dense bones and getting the desired figure you are looking for.

Thank you again for posting this video and topic.

crisanderson27

I'm interested in doing heavier lifting, but I'm scared of all the 20yr old buff boys in the weights section of the gym -- how do I get started? Is it best to get a PT?

Maybe politely talk to one or two of the nicer seeming 'buff boys' and tell them you appreciate all the hard work they're doing (this always gets their attention), and want to start yourself. Then ask for pointers on how THEY started.

It breaks the ice, gets you in with the group (they eventually all come to know each other, and they'll talk about you...at first semi humorously, but if you stick with it, they'll end up respecting you in a huge way), and gains you a bunch of 'trainers' for free. You may not be doing things the 100% most efficient way possible, but you'll be doing it, which is a huge start.

crisanderson27

Hi, thanks for the great thread. This is just what I needed as I want to start strength training. Just a warning, this might be a long post..
I am a complete beginner, I have worked out with weights in the past but never kept doing it regularly enough to see results. It's been at least 6 months since my last attempt to start strength training but I feel I'm ready to commit to it this time.

I am trying to come up with a strength training plan and after reading this whole thread, I think I have a general idea of what to do. I will post my goals, my plan, and a few questions and it would be great if you could take the time to add/ correct/ make reccomendations to my plan.

I am 5'1 and 130lbs.
My goals are to:
1. Lose some fat. My goal is 110-115lbs but the number is not that important as long as I look lean.
2. Maintain muscle mass while losing fat, last thing I want to be is "skinny fat".
3. Perhaps add some weight in muscle once the fat is gone.
4. Improve overall cardiovascular fitness level.

My plan based on what I've learned from this thread:

1. Calorie deficit to lose fat. I am currently logging all foods and been doing good about the deficit.. so I'll keep doing this.
2. Strength training:
3 full body workouts every week on non-consecutive days, working all the large muscle groups, using the heaviest weight I can do 5-8 reps with. I only have dumbbells, a set of 4 and a set of 8lbs. I'm going to start out with the 4lbs until I learn correct form and then see if 8 is a good weight for a set consisting of 5-8 reps. If it's too easy, will go higher.
3. Cardio: I understand cardio isn't really necessary but I enjoy it for now and will keep doing it to aid with the deficit and to improve overall cardiovascular fitness. I currently do a 3 mile run in about 30-40 minutes 5-6 days a week. But I think I might cut down on that and do just 3 days on the same days I do strength training so I can give the muscles time to recover. It's probably not a good idea to do a full body workout one day and then go running the next day.

Even though I have the basic plan as outlined above, I still have some questions.

1. I work full time and also have school full time, so although I will make time for the plan I outlined, I would prefer it if there is a way to do things faster with the same results. For example, circuit training.. is this a good idea? I could combine my cardio and strength into 1 routine. But then I was thinking with all the cardio, maybe I would be too tired to lift heavy enough weights, especially since I am a beginner. What do you think?

2. How many sets? How many reps per set? How heavy?
I was thinking 5-8 reps with a weight that I'm able to do the whole thing with 1-2 reps left. Does this sound right? Or is it better to train until failure? And how many sets? I heard anything from 1 set being enough to anywhere up until 5 sets.

3. Lastly, what muscle groups for a full body workout? I want to improve my overall physique..
I would probably do shoulders, chest, back, biceps, triceps, abs, glutes, quads and hamstrings. These are the basics right? But then I see many routines that does calves, forearms, inner thighs, outer thighs, lower back, upper back etc.. Do I need to do seperate movements for all these or do the movements that work the basic, larger muscles already work the smaller muscles such as the forearm or inner thigh etc..

Thanks for reading so far, I know this has been long but I have so many questions and the more I read, the more I get confused..
Please feel free to add to my plan or make corrections/ reccomendations. :happy:

I already gave you my suggestion for a workout...but I wanted to say the rest of what you're proposing looks pretty good to me. As I mentioned, I'd do the strength workout in fast circuit style, which when combined with your deficit, will burn fat quickly. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the cardio with that style strength training routine, but if you felt the need...tues/thurs/sat would be good days for a very light cardio workout (consider it stretching more than a workout), or a short burst of high intensity intervals. 15-20 minutes on those off days goes a long way.

I am a big supporter of the 5x5 (5 reps, 5 sets) format. You get in heavy weight, and plenty of reps to stimulate the muscles.

I think with as much effort as you've put into researching this, you'll do wonderfully once you just start doing it =D.

gracemleone

I already gave you my suggestion for a workout...but I wanted to say the rest of what you're proposing looks pretty good to me. As I mentioned, I'd do the strength workout in fast circuit style, which when combined with your deficit, will burn fat quickly. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the cardio with that style strength training routine, but if you felt the need...tues/thurs/sat would be good days for a very light cardio workout (consider it stretching more than a workout), or a short burst of high intensity intervals. 15-20 minutes on those off days goes a long way.

I am a big supporter of the 5x5 (5 reps, 5 sets) format. You get in heavy weight, and plenty of reps to stimulate the muscles.

I think with as much effort as you've put into researching this, you'll do wonderfully once you just start doing it =D.

Thanks Cris, your suggestions really helped and I already started today.
The one thing I modified though is the circuit style training. What you are saying definitely makes sense, I could do both things at once and eliminate/ reduce the cardio and will probably do that when the weather starts getting cold. But for now, I like going out for a run in the mornings, but am going to reduce it a little. So since I'm already getting the cardio, and since I'm a beginner I'm just going to focus on correct form while strength training and maybe try the circuit style when it's cold outside.

One question though, what can I substitute for the pull ups? I'm doing these at home and just have dumbbells for now, but will get more as I improve. But for now, what can I do with dumbbells? Or do I need to get a bar?

crisanderson27

I already gave you my suggestion for a workout...but I wanted to say the rest of what you're proposing looks pretty good to me. As I mentioned, I'd do the strength workout in fast circuit style, which when combined with your deficit, will burn fat quickly. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the cardio with that style strength training routine, but if you felt the need...tues/thurs/sat would be good days for a very light cardio workout (consider it stretching more than a workout), or a short burst of high intensity intervals. 15-20 minutes on those off days goes a long way.

I am a big supporter of the 5x5 (5 reps, 5 sets) format. You get in heavy weight, and plenty of reps to stimulate the muscles.

I think with as much effort as you've put into researching this, you'll do wonderfully once you just start doing it =D.

Thanks Cris, your suggestions really helped and I already started today.
The one thing I modified though is the circuit style training. What you are saying definitely makes sense, I could do both things at once and eliminate/ reduce the cardio and will probably do that when the weather starts getting cold. But for now, I like going out for a run in the mornings, but am going to reduce it a little. So since I'm already getting the cardio, and since I'm a beginner I'm just going to focus on correct form while strength training and maybe try the circuit style when it's cold outside.

One question though, what can I substitute for the pull ups? I'm doing these at home and just have dumbbells for now, but will get more as I improve. But for now, what can I do with dumbbells? Or do I need to get a bar?

You could pick up some resistance bands from Wal Mart, and wrap them over a door or the like to simulate pull ups. It's difficult to replace an actual pull up though. I'm really not a big fan of the door bars, but you're MUCH lighter than I am, so it'll probably be ok. Good form is the issue, as the door frame tends to get in the way of anything but close type pull ups (for me). My max reps on pullups went up by three when I got a tower to do pullups from, versus trying to use the door, just from having the freedom to PULL, and actually not worry about it.

Also, if you get the one that comes with the ab straps (rests for your elbows that hang from the door bar), there's some really cool ab exercises you can do in places of crunches and situps etc. Things like leg lifts and the like.

stroutman81

3 full body workouts every week on non-consecutive days, working all the large muscle groups, using the heaviest weight I can do 5-8 reps with. I only have dumbbells, a set of 4 and a set of 8lbs. I'm going to start out with the 4lbs until I learn correct form and then see if 8 is a good weight for a set consisting of 5-8 reps. If it's too easy, will go higher.

That's a great plan of attack. Practice form in the big movements until it's so automated you don't have to think about it. If you're ever uncertain about the quality of your movement, feel free to film yourself, upload it to youtube or vimeo or whatever (you can make it private) and email it to me. I'll give you pointers on how to clean things up.

Also, keep in mind that you can't pick a weight that will be appropriate for all movements. Each movement, depending on how much muscle mass is in play, is going to have it's own appropriate weight to use. Think of an overhead press compared to a deadlift.

With the overhead press you're really only using your deltoids and traps (and to a much lesser degree a bunch of smaller muscles). In the deadlift, you're essentially using everything. Because there are so many muscles activated in the deadlift, you'll be able to use much heavier weights in the movement compared to the overhead press.

Maybe not initially, but you should quickly see what I'm talking about.

Starting with one universal load in the beginning is fine. But be cognizant of what I'm saying here down the road.

3. Cardio: I understand cardio isn't really necessary but I enjoy it for now and will keep doing it to aid with the deficit and to improve overall cardiovascular fitness. I currently do a 3 mile run in about 30-40 minutes 5-6 days a week. But I think I might cut down on that and do just 3 days on the same days I do strength training so I can give the muscles time to recover. It's probably not a good idea to do a full body workout one day and then go running the next day.

I wouldn't worry about cardio interfering with your strength work and recovery... at least not the kind of cardio you're doing. I don't think you need to be doing it 6 days a week for your goals. But that lower intensity stuff you're doing isn't likely to interfere with things.

It's when you throw in a bunch of high intensity conditioning work (think all out sprinting and the like) where you can find a dilution of adaptations and recovery.

1. I work full time and also have school full time, so although I will make time for the plan I outlined, I would prefer it if there is a way to do things faster with the same results. For example, circuit training.. is this a good idea? I could combine my cardio and strength into 1 routine. But then I was thinking with all the cardio, maybe I would be too tired to lift heavy enough weights, especially since I am a beginner. What do you think?

I'll say this. I never do circuit training with any of my clients in the beginning. Form is the first thing that goes out the window when fatigue sets in, and that's not conducive at all for learning these movement patterns.

Once you are intimately familiar with the movements and your body awareness, then you can start tinkering with circuit training. Although it's still not my preferred method of strength training. In the end, the more you combine the two modes of training, the greater the dilutive effect.

Granted... there's this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21659889

This study shows the high load, progressive training will be beneficial in traditional or circuit type formats.

2. How many sets? How many reps per set? How heavy?
I was thinking 5-8 reps with a weight that I'm able to do the whole thing with 1-2 reps left. Does this sound right? Or is it better to train until failure? And how many sets? I heard anything from 1 set being enough to anywhere up until 5 sets.

Definitely no need to train until failure.

I outlined some very specific recommendations in this blog article I posted:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/resistance-training-foundation-19725

As Cris pointed out, the 5x5 protocol has proven to be a very effective strategy for building strength and muscle in beginners. The strategy is as old as the hills, so it's time tested. It was first introduced in Bill Starr's The Strongest Shall Survive book, which, though old, is till a great book. Mark Rippetoe resurrected the popularity of the strategy with his Practical Programming and Starting Strength books.

Personally, since recovery ability is diminished while dieting and the research is pretty clear that it requires less stimulus to maintain a physical attribute than it does to build it... I'm inclined to cut volume down by at least 30-50%. So the 5x5 protocol becomes something like 3x5.

In addition, given what we know about hypertrophy's response to various loading parameters, I'm inclined to use a variety or rep ranges. Heavy stuff in the neighborhood of 4-6 reps is always the foundation, but I'll also throw in stuff in the 8-15 rep range as well.

3. Lastly, what muscle groups for a full body workout? I want to improve my overall physique..
I would probably do shoulders, chest, back, biceps, triceps, abs, glutes, quads and hamstrings. These are the basics right? But then I see many routines that does calves, forearms, inner thighs, outer thighs, lower back, upper back etc.. Do I need to do seperate movements for all these or do the movements that work the basic, larger muscles already work the smaller muscles such as the forearm or inner thigh etc..

Keeping things simple, I'd look at it like this:

Squat movement

Hip hinge movement

Horizontal push

Horizontal pull

Vertical push

Vertical pull

Core

Note that you don't need to do each in every single workout. I'll dive into this in more detail if you still have questions after reading the article I linked to above.

stroutman81

great thread bumping for later so I can read more.

So far I`ve really only worked with weight machines should I also include some free weight work? or will I be ok just going threw the machines at the gym ( I don`t have a trainer )

You'll be "ok" using machines. I'd suggest learning the basic barbell exercises though. Pick up Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength book and DVD. It won't disappoint.

stroutman81

I'm obese (My current BMI is 44.6), and one day I hung around after my Zumba class to do a BodyPump class.

I know it's going to be said that BodyPump is more cardio than weights (because the weights aren't heavy enough), but for my body, which hadn't had much in the way of exercise in at least 10years, it's a work out.

I've stopped going to Zumba all together, and now do 3 BodyPump classes a week and I'm now losing weight much more consistently. Plus, I really like how my body feels... I can feel (some) firmness under my flab now. I do have some knee issues, but my back and hips no longer hurt all the time.

I'm interested in doing heavier lifting, but I'm scared of all the 20yr old buff boys in the weights section of the gym -- how do I get started? Is it best to get a PT?

While I'm not such a fan of bodypump, it did give you a bump in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. To put it simply, when it comes to obese folks, I'm more inclined to do pure circuit training, not to far off from bodypump type stuff. Muscle maintenance isn't as much a concern when you're obese, so getting a hint of strength training while maximizing calorie output is the name of the game.

This is a prime example as to why there are no blanket rights and wrongs.

stroutman81

Thank you for posting this!! I agree that lifting for women gives them the tight and toned look they want. Not only that, but the more lean mass a woman builds, the more calories she burns just by sitting there. I am working towards my first figure competition in 3 weeks and since I have really started lifing heavy (for me), and eating the way I am...I am 5'8" 140lbs and 128lbs of that is muscle.

Please women do not worry so much about the scale, because this is the most I have weighed in my life. Think about lifting heavy, building and toning your physique is healthy for building dense bones and getting the desired figure you are looking for.

Thank you again for posting this video and topic.

Good luck at your competition! You look fantastic.