If you can't say something nice....

livnlite

There is constructive criticism and there is just plain old criticism. Being brutally honest can come off as abusively truthful of a person's 'opinion'. Using a little tact goes a long way.

Like for instance .. "You look like crap when you where the colour red. It makes you look fat and sickly. Like that red blouse you wore yesterday made you look really old. You are an idiot if you buy that dress in red!"

OR

You can say, "Red is not your colour, but I think you would look awesome in the blue dress. I shows off your eyes..You look great!"

Both honest .. both critical .. both would have completely opposite results.. Does ANYONE see the difference?

Contrarian

PBT - Great post.

Sadly, the discussion is already devolving into a debate about different kinds of nice and different kinds of honesty.

That irony is even sadder that 10,000 spoons on your wedding day.

Or a traffic jam when all you need is a knife.

macpatti

Patti you talked about shutting up the negative people. That implies going beyond disagreeing with the content of their posts and goes beyond into taking away their voice. Very controlling abusive and bullying outlook behind using "shutting up"as an active verb with an object that is another person, it seems. I would just suggest that the most destructive wasteful wars are fought and fought dirty by people on at least two sides who thought theirs was the side of angels. Call the meanness. I think I may have with you the other day, but don't think it is ok to make as your goal "shutting up" the other side.

See that there. I was JUST talking about ehat you've said and didn't call you names. It may have smarted a llittle and that was NOT my goal, but it didn't devolve (yet) into name calling. Let's keep it that way.

The OP has asked that I PM him instead of replying here, so I did. I will also respect his request and not reply to you, although I would love to. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion in a respectful, mature debate. Thanks!

calibri

Mmmm I want some marshmallow Peeps.

ckatastrophy

But but what about the story from Bambi,I mean we should all take life lessons from Disney cartoons.Which is why I live with 7 short guys

LOL! That's why I'm divorced twice because Disney wasn't honest in his movies & I keep looking for the "Diamond in the rough" or the "Tramp" who treats the "Lady" right. Hmmm, Maybe I should try living with 7 short men.....

PatientBearTiger

Patti you talked about shutting up the negative people. That implies going beyond disagreeing with the content of their posts and goes beyond into taking away their voice. Very controlling abusive and bullying outlook behind using "shutting up"as an active verb with an object that is another person, it seems. I would just suggest that the most destructive wasteful wars are fought and fought dirty by people on at least two sides who thought theirs was the side of angels. Call the meanness. I think I may have with you the other day, but don't think it is ok to make as your goal "shutting up" the other side.

See that there. I was JUST talking about ehat you've said and didn't call you names. It may have smarted a llittle and that was NOT my goal, but it didn't devolve (yet) into name calling. Let's keep it that way.

The OP has asked that I PM him instead of replying here, so I did. I will also respect his request and not reply to you, although I would love to. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion in a respectful, mature debate. Thanks!

Thank you.

IamRoJ

Amen!!! I'm sick of a world where everyone wins a trophy just for showing up, and nobody is alllowed to feel bad about anything we've said or done. I'm glad to have someone disagree with me, cuz maybe I'll actually LEARN from it and become a better person. Too much pandering to the lowest common denominator so nobody's feelings get hurt. How about we all realize there are opposing views, learn to dialogue respectfully, and appreciate that people have courage of conviction even if they disagree with you.

WTG, BearTiger...IamRoJ and I support this message.

FindingFit50s

Back to the OP.... and keeping on topic with this thread without deteriorating into nit-picking bickering...

You are SO right. This is actually one of the best lessons I've learned since joining MFP. And the main reason I *need* MFP is because honest and direct people here can tell me things that my husband knows, but won't say because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings. And really, I probably don't want *him* to always tell me what I *need* to hear. So, my husband aside:

I don't need to hear:

Aw, you're not really all that big.
But you carry it well.
Well, it runs in your family. It's genetic.
You had three babies in four years. You can't help it.
Etc.

I will no longer make excuses. Period. And I don't want or need anyone else making excuses for me.

My very life is at stake here. This is a pivotal point in my life. I can do the necessary work to make crucial changes to become fit and healthy and extend both the length and quality of my life. Then, look forward to retirement travel with my husband, enjoying any activity I choose, and being able to run and play with the grandchildren I hope the future holds for me.

OR

I can continue my old habits and look forward to complications to develop from my Type 2 Diabetes, sleep apnea, hypertension,
asthma, and arthritic knees. At the very least, becoming one more morbidly obese person wheeling around on a scooter because my knees can no longer bear the weight of my own body. Most likely, it would also eventually include kidney disease/dialysis, maybe some toe amputation(s), heart disease, heart attack and/or stroke. Maybe worse.

Please hold me accountable to my vow to stop making excuses Please don't make excuses for me. Please tell me the truth about what I need to change when I run into problems with continuing my weight loss and becoming fit. I need this from my MFP friends because I want not just tp live long, but to live strong and thrive.

Thank you.

ckatastrophy

We all know the phrase: "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything." Know what? I disagree and here's why:

1 - It is very easy to say something that is degrading, mean and condescending and have it come out sounding perfectly "nice." Please and thank you doesn't necessarily mean that the message is all sunshine and roses.

2 - Saying nothing helps no one. There are many people in the world who are very sensitive and take constructive criticism very hard. I get that and I am not trying to pick on anyone. However, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that people sometimes NEED to hear what they don't WANT to hear. If we could all be healthy on our own, we wouldn't be here. Some people respond better to the hugs and gentle encouragement and that's fine. But I don't think a person is truly finding out everything about themselves that they need to find out if they aren't made to be a little uncomfortable. I'm NOT saying we have to be total jerks. But, pretending that everything is hunky dory so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt?? Nope. Not me. Hurt feelings come when a little bit of truth is thrown at someone and that truth is generally a truth that person needed to hear.

3 - We are all adults. Get a grip. No one is purposely putting anyone down the way many people were insulted in school growing up. Why can't we have an intelligent debate with opposing viewpoints without people saying "they are just trying to make themselves feel better by putting you down" or "they are a troll" or "I'm going to go tell mommy" or something along those lines? Opposing viewpoints are good people!! Quit being so defensive and you just might learn something about yourself. I know I have since joining MFP.

Nice is good. Honest is good. Nice and honest if best. However, given the choice, I'll take honest.

:drinker:

Thank you! PBT this is something that many folks need to read. Think the MODs should post this in the "forum rules". PBT!

jacksonpt

Think the MODs should post this in the "forum rules". PBT!

I thought you WANTED people to read his post???

ilookthetype

Amen!!! I'm sick of a world where everyone wins a trophy just for showing up, and nobody is alllowed to feel bad about anything we've said or done. I'm glad to have someone disagree with me, cuz maybe I'll actually LEARN from it and become a better person. Too much pandering to the lowest common denominator so nobody's feelings get hurt. How about we all realize there are opposing views, learn to dialogue respectfully, and appreciate that people have courage of conviction even if they disagree with you.

WTG, BearTiger...IamRoJ and I support this message.

Oh man. I'm so glad we're friends, RoJ. AMEN!

ckatastrophy

Think the MODs should post this in the "forum rules". PBT!

I thought you WANTED people to read his post???

Ha ha! Yea, true, no one would probably read it there.

Hearts_2015

Why does any one person get to "shut up" the naysayers? Or "negative people"

That attitude lost us Taso who was easily the most valuable, friendly, supportive, truthful person on here.

I have no idea who Taso is, nor did I say I wanted to "rid the mfp world" of that which I do not approve. There is a difference between telling people the truth, even if it's a good kick in the butt, and putting people down. It doesn't take a genius to know the difference. Why is it okay for some people to be honest, but others have to keep quiet when they don't agree with the way it's done? Tell someone they shouldn't rely on drinking lemon water to lose weight. But, don't tell them that they're a frigin idiot if they do. It's the latter comments that bother me.

I agree with the person that wrote the above.. and btw who's tago, did he die??? dunno maybe this wasn't the right site for him, people come, people go, they always will, drama then new people come and everyone forgets who used to be here. That's always how it's been here ask anyone that's been around awhile, when people leave they leave because they make a choice too, it's not the right place for everyone, we all eventually outgrow our support systems.

XFitMojoMom

But but what about the story from Bambi,I mean we should all take life lessons from Disney cartoons.Which is why I live with 7 short guys

LOL! That's why I'm divorced twice because Disney wasn't honest in his movies & I keep looking for the "Diamond in the rough" or the "Tramp" who treats the "Lady" right. Hmmm, Maybe I should try living with 7 short men.....

You KNOW you'll be HAPPY!

ckatastrophy

Amen!!! I'm sick of a world where everyone wins a trophy just for showing up, and nobody is alllowed to feel bad about anything we've said or done. I'm glad to have someone disagree with me, cuz maybe I'll actually LEARN from it and become a better person. Too much pandering to the lowest common denominator so nobody's feelings get hurt. How about we all realize there are opposing views, learn to dialogue respectfully, and appreciate that people have courage of conviction even if they disagree with you.

WTG, BearTiger...IamRoJ and I support this message.

Well said! & I support this message, too.

ckatastrophy

But but what about the story from Bambi,I mean we should all take life lessons from Disney cartoons.Which is why I live with 7 short guys

LOL! That's why I'm divorced twice because Disney wasn't honest in his movies & I keep looking for the "Diamond in the rough" or the "Tramp" who treats the "Lady" right. Hmmm, Maybe I should try living with 7 short men.....

You KNOW you'll be HAPPY!

:laugh:

Jade_Butterfly

In all honesty...ahem. I do think people could sometimes work on saying things in a kind way. We all need to hear things sometimes that we don't want to hear, but thinking about how you would say it to someone you care about is important, too. I think it's best if we can say the tough things in a loving way. That said, if someone doesn't want to hear the truth, they may still overreact and we have to expect that as a possibility. I definitely agree that "nice" is not always the most helpful or loving thing to be.

This ^^^^

nerdyandilikeit

Why does any one person get to "shut up" the naysayers? Or "negative people"

That attitude lost us Taso who was easily the most valuable, friendly, supportive, truthful person on here.

One persons nattering nabob of negativity is another person's lifeline. Perhaps people need to get off of their mission to rid the mfp world of that which they do not approve

THANK. YOU.

soulfire711

I don't spend a lot of time reading and responding to posts, but I'm glad spent some time with this thread. :-)
I can understand how the back and forth defensiveness would get old for those of you that spend a lot of time reading posts, but it was very educational for me. I learned a lot about this community just from reading the 3 pages of replies here and I have to say...you guys are GREAT!! The passion and conviction displayed here was impressive and I would be proud to be that invested in this community/cause.

Since this group has inspired me...I'm going to attempt to share my thoughts on this topic. :-D
I felt that BearTiger did a nice job of being respectful while sharing some possibly uncomfortable points. I feel that, as a culture, we spend too much time celebrating mediocrity and too little time striving to be better. I'm not here to be better than anyone else...I just want to be better than myself! I want to grow and learn and the only way I can do that is by asking tough questions and being willing to accept the truth. I appreciate tactfulness and thoughtfulness, but ultimately, I just want to truth. I might not hear you over the sting, but I hope I will be committed enough to self-growth to think about what you said instead of blowing you off.

bonjour24

Since this group has inspired me...I'm going to attempt to share my thoughts on this topic. :-D
I felt that BearTiger did a nice job of being respectful while sharing some possibly uncomfortable points. I feel that, as a culture, we spend too much time celebrating mediocrity and too little time striving to be better. I'm not here to be better than anyone else...I just want to be better than myself! I want to grow and learn and the only way I can do that is by asking tough questions and being willing to accept the truth. I appreciate tactfulness and thoughtfulness, but ultimately, I just want to truth. I might not hear you over the sting, but I hope I will be committed enough to self-growth to think about what you said instead of blowing you off.

^^ ooh, this! this!
when people challenge my actions it helps me to actually think about what it is i am doing. yes, i want people to be tactful when they're doing this, but i'll still take it if it's a big old ***** slap! and i need to wear my big girl pants and realise that it's not an attack against me, it's a comment about my behaviour. i like that people can be honest with me like that, and it's important for them to know that i won't have a tantrum because i feel bad that they've pointed out my destructive behaviour.
if i only wanted to hear the good stuff, i'd talk to someone that didn't care.

and the only people who should be able to go on an mfp purification crusade should be the awesome and kind mike who set this thing up for us to use for free. his word is final, not mine or another users.