On MSG and Genetically Modified plants

LabRat529

This is spurred by another topic in which these were mentioned. I thought I'd share my opinion. My opinion was formed by science, but this is another one of those areas (like aspartame) where there's data backing up both opinions, so you'll find stuff out there saying MSG = bad and GM = bad.

MSG is monosodium glutamate. Glutamate is an amino acid and one of the most important neurotransmitters in your brain. By neurotransmitter, I mean it's a chemical signal that's released by one neuron to communicate with another neuron.

People who object to MSG say (among other things) that it damages the brain. In mice and rats, this is true. Even in primates, this is true. If you feed these animals a LARGE quantity of MSG, they develop lesions in their brain.

But the evidence is weak in humans. It's highly questionable whether dietary MSG even crosses the blood-brain barrier, let alone damages the brain when/if it does.

What is the blood-brain barrier? The rest of our bodies are bathed in blood and interstitial fluid that is comprised of whatever was in the blood (minus the blood cells). But the brain- blood enters the skull through blood vessels, but does not come into direct contact with the brain. Instead, it is filtered through a network of tightly-fitted-together cells and this filter removes pathogens and unwanted material. The blood brain barrier makes the life of neuro-pharmacologists (like me) a bit difficult, because we can come up with the greatest drug in the world for curing <insert disease of choice here> and still utterly fail because it doesn't get into the brain.

So if MSG doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, it doesn't cause damage to the brain.

What about all the people who get a bad reaction to MSG? It's probably do to MSG acting else where in the body. It's not likely due to effects in the brain, though there are people who would argue this point.

What about these genetically modified plants?

I'm not that invested in whether someone eats or doesn't eat genetically modified foods. But I am invested in getting 'correct information' to anyone who wants it. Genetic modification is NOT my expertise. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that some of the crazy things people believe are simply not true.

Example: I have heard people tell me that they don't eat genetically modified plants because they don't want the plants to affect their DNA. This is silly. The genes in the plant will not jump across an entire kingdom into your DNA. It just isn't going to happen. We are not plants. Our DNA is not gonna mesh together happily. Also, the viruses (if there were even any viruses) used to make the genetic modification in the original plant are long gone. They don't hang around. You don't have to worry about them.

The simple truth is, from a biological standpoint, your body doesn't know whether a plant has been genetically modified or not. You body sees a composite of proteins, fats, carbohydrates, sugars, and fibers. It seems the break-down products of those items: amino acids, fatty acids, single-molecule sugars, and... well it can't break down the fiber, so it still sees fiber.

I don't object to people avoiding genetically modified plants if they wish. I just hope you're avoiding them for other good reasons and not because you're scared of them.

songbyrdsweet

Agreed on all points!

meshellmybell76

I didn't realize that one of the reasons people were scared of GMOs was because they feared they would somehow alter their DNA. Wow! That is actually pretty funny... and sad.

rileysowner

Good post. My DW has issues with MSG, but neither of us figured it was because it affected the brain, we figured it affected something else. Thanks for this info.

Rae6503

Ur smrt. :happy:

kira000

There are no studies on the long term effects of GMOs yet. All the studies conducted showed no detriment after 90 days of consumption. However, most things do their damage after cumulative exposure. Once they are in the food supply, people will be eating them longer then the 90 day period.

We just don't know about their safety long term. I don't want to be anyone's guinea pig so I try to avoid them. I wish they were labeled.

songbyrdsweet

We take in the DNA of everything we eat. Regular plants have DNA too. It's part of where we get nitrogen!

LuckyLeprechaun

I do not think it's brain based, but my hubby does have physical reactions to MSG. And it's not psychosomatic, because he has had the reaction to something seemingly innocent like flavored wheat thins, and then we go check and BAM there it is, MSG as a prime ingredient. It (MSG) doesn't bug me at all, but he gets a rash on his face and looks puffy, and in some instances, he's even felt a very mild "my throat feels swollen" (I would NOT call it anaphalaxis, but along those lines) sensation.

It's a bummer because he loves Asian foods, and many different kinds of Asian foods have a lot of MSG in them.

LabRat529

Good post. My DW has issues with MSG, but neither of us figured it was because it affected the brain, we figured it affected something else. Thanks for this info.

I do not think it's brain based, but my hubby does have physical reactions to MSG. And it's not psychosomatic, because he has had the reaction to something seemingly innocent like flavored wheat thins, and then we go check and BAM there it is, MSG as a prime ingredient. It (MSG) doesn't bug me at all, but he gets a rash on his face and looks puffy, and in some instances, he's even felt a very mild "my throat feels swollen" (I would NOT call it anaphalaxis, but along those lines) sensation.

It's a bummer because he loves Asian foods, and many different kinds of Asian foods have a lot of MSG in them.

A lot of people do react to MSG. I don't really know why, but I've never thought it was psychosomatic. I actually wrote this whole thing because in another thread, someone was counseling against MSG and asked people if they knew what it does in the brain. The answer is: it probably doesn't do anything in the brain. But that doesn't mean it's not triggering some kind of reaction elsewhere for some reason.

I don't really understand why it would cause any adverse reaction. It's just sodium plus an amino acid. But there are enough people who have an adverse effect that it probably does cause upset in some (not all!) people.

LabRat529

Ur smrt. :happy:

Yah? But I'm pretty sure you could kick my *kitten* in fluid dynamics or ... heck... even basic algebra

tigersword

Another point, MSG is naturally occurring in many foods that people eat on a daily basis and don't even know it. Like mushrooms, some meats, some leafy greens, etc. just wanted to put that out there to silence any potential "MSG is evil artificial chemical" type of fear mongering that might pop up.

rileysowner

Good post. My DW has issues with MSG, but neither of us figured it was because it affected the brain, we figured it affected something else. Thanks for this info.

I do not think it's brain based, but my hubby does have physical reactions to MSG. And it's not psychosomatic, because he has had the reaction to something seemingly innocent like flavored wheat thins, and then we go check and BAM there it is, MSG as a prime ingredient. It (MSG) doesn't bug me at all, but he gets a rash on his face and looks puffy, and in some instances, he's even felt a very mild "my throat feels swollen" (I would NOT call it anaphalaxis, but along those lines) sensation.

It's a bummer because he loves Asian foods, and many different kinds of Asian foods have a lot of MSG in them.

A lot of people do react to MSG. I don't really know why, but I've never thought it was psychosomatic. I actually wrote this whole thing because in another thread, someone was counseling against MSG and asked people if they knew what it does in the brain. The answer is: it probably doesn't do anything in the brain. But that doesn't mean it's not triggering some kind of reaction elsewhere for some reason.

I don't really understand why it would cause any adverse reaction. It's just sodium plus an amino acid. But there are enough people who have an adverse effect that it probably does cause upset in some (not all!) people.

With my DW, I think it is a mild allergic reaction such as she gets from cumin. It may be something else as she has issues eating chocolate and mint together as well.

M3CH4N1C

The simple truth is, from a biological standpoint, your body doesn't know whether a plant has been genetically modified or not. You body sees a composite of proteins, fats, carbohydrates, sugars, and fibers. It seems the break-down products of those items: amino acids, fatty acids, single-molecule sugars, and... well it can't break down the fiber, so it still sees fiber.

I don't object to people avoiding genetically modified plants if they wish. I just hope you're avoiding them for other good reasons and not because you're scared of them.

I think it's scary when scientist try to manipulate mother nature in order to achieve a goal they really don't know much about. I like what Einstien said " If you can't explain it simply then you don't understand it well enough." There are scientist who are trying to manipulate the chemistry of food in order to accommodate their pharmaceuticals. Sounds like as smart as they seem, either way they are inept at understanding the situation overall, and will destroy what they are trying to study before they come to an understanding of it. It's sad but you don't know what you have until it's gone. I believe in science but I can't have faith in it. It appears as though vaccines and pharmaceuticals are the trojan horse of biological/chemical warfare. It's amazing that you are so intelligent Bekah and I think it is definitely interesting. The bottom line is there are people that want de-population, i.e. the Georgia Guidestones, and there is a bigger picture to Alzheimer's research. Below is part of an article that talks about GMO grapefruit.

(NaturalNews) Grapefruits, lemons, celery, and certain other fruits and vegetables contain compounds known as furanocoumarins that can cause a negative reaction when consumed along with certain medications. But rather than examine the medications to see whether or not they themselves are safe, scientists have instead focused on developing genetically hybridized grapefruit that contains little or no furanocoumarins as the solution.

Researchers from the University of Florida (UF) have successfully crossed the genes of an ordinary grapefruit with those of a pomelo, a citrus relative of the grapefruit, according to Scientific American. Since pomelos are naturally low in furanocoumarins, the resulting fruit is also low in furanocoumarins, which means patients taking the interacting medications can safely eat them.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034310_grapefruits_furanocoumarins_drug_interactions.html#ixzz1fbHe2sNV

tigersword

And that article is no different than what scientists and botanists have been doing for hundreds of years. Breeding different plants together to eliminate unwanted traits.

M3CH4N1C

And that article is no different than what scientists and botanists have been doing for hundreds of years. Breeding different plants together to eliminate unwanted traits.

And like I said " I believe in science, I just don't have faith in it." Appears as though they are eliminating the good traits and convincing you that they are unwanted.

Furanocoumarins have other biological effects as well. For example, in humans, bergamottin and dihydroxybergamottin are responsible for the "grapefruit juice effect", in which these furanocoumarins affect the metabolism of certain drugs.

It seems that these pharmaceuticals are unwanted and that people are driving to eliminate nature's defenses. If a pill doesn't work correctly because of grapefruit effect, then the pill is bad, not the other way around.

Dave198lbs

thanks for posting this

amilynnM

It seems that these pharmaceuticals are unwanted and that people are driving to eliminate nature's defenses. If a pill doesn't work correctly because of grapefruit effect, then the pill is bad, not the other way around.

Many pharmaceuticals are beneficial or even necessary for the person taking them to live. Spending more and more time and money making sure that the pill doesn't react with grapefruit is delaying the ability to use these drugs to treat patients. It may never be possible. Drugs, like anything else you put in your body, are metabolized and eliminated over time. For some medications, the relevant compound in grapefruit is beneficial because it slows metabolism of the drug and allows it to have greater effect. For other drugs, inhibited metabolism can lead to elevated levels of medication in the body that can be harmful. So, they are creating a GMO grapefruit that doesn't slow metabolism.

tigersword

Maybe we should stop eating cucumbers, too. After all, they used to be extremely bitter and slightly poisonous, but several hundred years ago people bred the bitterness and toxins out of them.

LabRat529

I think of 'genetically modified' plants as just an extension of what man has been doing since they first started cultivating the earth. Wheat didn't exist as we know it today. The same with corn. Oh, there were grasses- the precursors to wheat and corn- and our ancestors ate them (ate them first, learned to cultivate them later)... but what we have today is a result of man consciously choosing seeds from the best plants. The same is true for domestic anything- horses, cows, dogs, etc... man breed for desirable traits.

We've reached a point where we can manipulate DNA directly... I don't actually know how it works with plants, but in our genetically modified mice (the ones we use in the lab), someone inserted human genes into mouse embryos... then followed a selective breeding program and whalla! We've got a mouse that develops Alzheimer's pathology.

I imagine the same is true with plants to one degree or another... we can insert a gene that makes the plant resistant to certain pesticides, for example. Then we plant, spray the field with the pesticide, and the only thing that lives is the plant we engineered.

It may not always be a good thing. I don't actually know enough about furanocoumarins, for example, to know whether it's good, bad, or neutral that researchers are selecting against it... but genetic modification is also not the bug-a-boo it's become for some people.

Generally speaking, genetic modification has done more good than bad- at least for humans. We can produce a lot of food right now on very little farming land. That's good... because it's freed up our people for other things. If we all had to grow the foods we ate, we wouldn't tradesmen, craftsmen, or anything else.

I guess that's my main point... genetic modification is not evil. It just is.

tigersword

Technology and science has changed over the centuries and humans have always used the most advanced scientific knowledge and technology available to improve quality of life. Nothing has changed. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

crzyone

What is a DW?

rileysowner

What is a DW?

Darling Wife

M3CH4N1C

There is also a difference between seed selection and genetic modification. It seems as though you're trying to blur those lines. There are also reports that we have not studied the effects of all considered GMO's to even know whether or not they are EVIL. There are stone inscriptions in the southern State of Georgia called the Georgia Guidestones in which the first inscription is this 1.Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

That was taken off Wikipedia. Now if our "humanity" is 7 billion right now as we speak. How are these right wing extremist groups going to de-populate "humanity" to 500 million. The answer is with every dirty trick in the book. Including fooling young gifted scientists into thinking they're doing good, when in reality they have no idea what's really going on. It's scary if they figure out how to get these drugs to diffuse past the BBB (blood brain barrier), whether it's with chemistry or nanobotics.

ninerbuff

This is spurred by another topic in which these were mentioned. I thought I'd share my opinion. My opinion was formed by science, but this is another one of those areas (like aspartame) where there's data backing up both opinions, so you'll find stuff out there saying MSG = bad and GM = bad.

MSG is monosodium glutamate. Glutamate is an amino acid and one of the most important neurotransmitters in your brain. By neurotransmitter, I mean it's a chemical signal that's released by one neuron to communicate with another neuron.

People who object to MSG say (among other things) that it damages the brain. In mice and rats, this is true. Even in primates, this is true. If you feed these animals a LARGE quantity of MSG, they develop lesions in their brain.

But the evidence is weak in humans. It's highly questionable whether dietary MSG even crosses the blood-brain barrier, let alone damages the brain when/if it does.

What is the blood-brain barrier? The rest of our bodies are bathed in blood and interstitial fluid that is comprised of whatever was in the blood (minus the blood cells). But the brain- blood enters the skull through blood vessels, but does not come into direct contact with the brain. Instead, it is filtered through a network of tightly-fitted-together cells and this filter removes pathogens and unwanted material. The blood brain barrier makes the life of neuro-pharmacologists (like me) a bit difficult, because we can come up with the greatest drug in the world for curing <insert disease of choice here> and still utterly fail because it doesn't get into the brain.

So if MSG doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, it doesn't cause damage to the brain.

What about all the people who get a bad reaction to MSG? It's probably do to MSG acting else where in the body. It's not likely due to effects in the brain, though there are people who would argue this point.

What about these genetically modified plants?

I'm not that invested in whether someone eats or doesn't eat genetically modified foods. But I am invested in getting 'correct information' to anyone who wants it. Genetic modification is NOT my expertise. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that some of the crazy things people believe are simply not true.

Example: I have heard people tell me that they don't eat genetically modified plants because they don't want the plants to affect their DNA. This is silly. The genes in the plant will not jump across an entire kingdom into your DNA. It just isn't going to happen. We are not plants. Our DNA is not gonna mesh together happily. Also, the viruses (if there were even any viruses) used to make the genetic modification in the original plant are long gone. They don't hang around. You don't have to worry about them.

The simple truth is, from a biological standpoint, your body doesn't know whether a plant has been genetically modified or not. You body sees a composite of proteins, fats, carbohydrates, sugars, and fibers. It seems the break-down products of those items: amino acids, fatty acids, single-molecule sugars, and... well it can't break down the fiber, so it still sees fiber.

I don't object to people avoiding genetically modified plants if they wish. I just hope you're avoiding them for other good reasons and not because you're scared of them.

THIS so much! Asians have had MSG in their foods for EONS and are some of the healthiest in the world and live longer than many other ethnic groups.

And genetically modified grains could have saved so many more people in Africa had it not be turned away.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

There are no studies on the long term effects of GMOs yet. All the studies conducted showed no detriment after 90 days of consumption. However, most things do their damage after cumulative exposure. Once they are in the food supply, people will be eating them longer then the 90 day period.

We just don't know about their safety long term. I don't want to be anyone's guinea pig so I try to avoid them. I wish they were labeled.

Food had been "chemically" laden for decades. I doubt that GMO's would have any effect on consumption.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

daffodilsoup

Besides, MSG is delicious.

Lift_hard_eat_big

I love msg, it makes bad food taste good

RonSwanson66

Let's not forget nitrates. Cured meat is the devil, but nitrates are found in much higher concentrations in vegetables.

Hot Dogs/Cured meat 10ppm

arugula 4,677 ppm

basil 2,292 ppm

butterhead lettuce 2,026 ppm

beets 1,279 ppm

celery 1,103 ppm

spinach 1,066 ppm

pumpkin 874 ppm

LabRat529

Let's not forget nitrates. Cured meat is the devil, but nitrates are found in much higher concentrations in vegetables.

Hot Dogs/Cured meat 10ppm

arugula 4,677 ppm

basil 2,292 ppm

butterhead lettuce 2,026 ppm

beets 1,279 ppm

celery 1,103 ppm

spinach 1,066 ppm

pumpkin 874 ppm

I knew there was a reason I didn't like arugula Damn nitrates.

M3CH4N1C

I knew there was a reason I didn't like arugula Damn nitrates.

LOL.

jetscreaminagain

Ok smart people (said with respect, not irony ) help me out the.

In the past little over a year, I've been struggling with the onset of periodic "vertiginous migraines ". No headache pain, just that the world spins, which is as close to awful as I can describe. There's an aura and nausea too. This seems like a brain thing, but it could also be the semicircular canals. However, my balance organs are excellent, a conclusion made after a day of awful tests. I was told to avoid a large random list of food but it includes msg and nitrates.

If msg has no effect on the brain, and if migraines in general and mine in particular involve the brain, why that counsel to avoid?

I've been as thorough an observer of my own symptoms as I can be and I find that there's a susceptibility on a pretty regular 28 day cyle. (Weirdly after, not before ). I lost all sight of my susceptibility last Thursday when my favorite Mexican restaurant opened a new location and I ate a burrito the size of my head. Pretty sure there was msg aplenty in it. But Friday I missed work because the world was spinning and I needed to throw up.

I avoidish msg because of this and have reduced my number of episodes. I don't think it is always guaranteed to affect me, but I sure think sometimes it does. So, with your understanding of these things, can you help me make sense of what happens to me?