At what price do we eat meat?
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Well I saw this topic spring up on the "Recent Forum Posts," and I said to myself, "Here's a topic which should provide many sound, well-reasoned arguments, in an adult manner," and I certainly wasn't disappointed. (/sarc)
I'll be passing on these from now on.0 -
Sorry, I couldn't read your post past the first sentence.
All your posts (that I've read so-far in this thread) are self-righteous and a bit mean-spirited.
Edit: Though I agree with the 'stop with the meat pictures' thing you just posted.
Well isn't that charming of you to say?!
"Is your daughter teenage? It is very common for teenagers to become anaemic as their bodies get used to having periods. Anaemia is not limited to vegetarians." My first post on this thread. Is that mean spirited?
Second post on this thread "No they don't. Lions kill with a quick bite to the back of the neck, severing the spinal cord. Same as domestic cats." Merely stating a fact. Is that mean spirited?
Third post "When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one." Again, if you could point out where I am being mean in that one, that would be great.
I have no idea what you are reading, but I don't think it's my posts.
I apologize for not going back and not quoting every single one of your posts that have bothered me.
It was the comment about Europeans having better diets than Americans that finally broke my camel's back. That is why I couldn't even read what that particular argument was about. It was SO pretentious.
Wow. You are very rude.
If you actually read what I said. I ASKED IF Europeans have better diets than Americans. I don't know any vegetarian Americans, but I know dozens of European ones, and none have ever had a problem with anaemia or B12 deficiency. The fact that so many Americans on this thread claimed vegetarianism causes B12 deficiency made me wonder about the relative aspects of the diets.
I can't see anything that could have been taken as offensive, nor anything remotely resembling pretension (where am I pretending to be something I am not?), but you have been very rude to me in your replies.0 -
I've seen Food Inc several times and as a result I started killing my own meat - random animals that cross my path end up on my barbecue. J/K.
I'll be honest and say that it had no effect on me what so ever. I know that sounds cruel. I've tried several times to give up meat but always go back. I respect those who choose not to consume animal products. My hat's off to you.0 -
Exactly. I look at a cow and I think food. I look at a turkey & I think Thanksgiving dinner, I see a PIg, and I am checking out his butt because I really love Ham. I do not think of food when I see chickens though and I eat more chicken then any other food.
I think what we need to do is change how our food is processed instead of not eating it at all.
We need more regulations and maybe go back to raising our own meat or getting them from a local farmer instead of deciding that our body shouldn't eat meat all together.0 -
Vegan propaganda. Oh MFP. Never change!0
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If you don't want to eat meat, don't eat meat, but to try and frame it as it's being cruel to animals, well then, I hope you don't live in a house on property you bought, since some poor animal used to call that home, and their habitat was wrecked to clear the land for it. I hope you don't drive a car, because cars can hit animals and kill them, and also the fumes from the exhaust can poison the animals, not to mention all the deadly chemicals required for the car to function properly that could also be deadly to animals. And of course, the destruction of animal habitats to pave roads for cars to drive on, destruction of habitats to build factories to build the cars, and on and on and on.
Eat meat if you want, or don't eat meat if you don't want, but if you're going to go all holier than though about animal treatment, you're being hypocritical, as just about everything that causes modern convenient living does damage to other animals, yes, even using the internet. And I don't need some random documentary to convince me of how I should eat, I have a brain, and I know how to think.
So...you shouldn't do anything because you can't do everything? By that logic, why shouldn't we go on a safari to shoot starving people? No point trying to be nice to them if we can't save them all, right?
Pathetic excuses.:)
Pathetic excuses? You're the one building the ridiculous straw man argument. Yes, let's go slaughter people, because it will help justify, whatever you're trying to justify....
I'm being honest. Eat meat if you like meat. Don't eat meat if you don't like meat. But to use the justification that eating meat is "cruel to animals and wrong," is disingenuous, and just a cheap justification. Why is it wrong to kill animals and eat them, but ok to destroy their habitats to build your house? Or kill them for the leather on your shoes, belt, couch, etc.
Personally I eat meat. I also eat vegetarian and vegan meals, because I like to eat a variety of foods. I honestly don't care what people eat or don't eat, I just can't stand people who get on a high horse and insist that their way of eating is somehow better than everyone else' s for random, arbitrary, usually hypocritical reasons.0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night.
Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
Not sure if you believe in the Bible...but it does say kill and eat. That is just how the world was created. Animals such as cows, pigs, etc. were made for food. If we did not eat them they would over populate and the outcome would be far worse. I'm not a huge meat eater and honestly I have done several Daniel Fasts. Not sure if you've heard of them or not, but you can check it out if you'd like. I don't think there is anything wrong with eating meat at all. I also don't think there is anything wrong with not eating meat. As with many other things in life everyone is going to have a personal conviction and it doesn't mean one is right or wrong. There are things worth fighting for and there are things that people can just simple just disagree on.0 -
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Sorry, I couldn't read your post past the first sentence.
All your posts (that I've read so-far in this thread) are self-righteous and a bit mean-spirited.
Edit: Though I agree with the 'stop with the meat pictures' thing you just posted.
Well isn't that charming of you to say?!
"Is your daughter teenage? It is very common for teenagers to become anaemic as their bodies get used to having periods. Anaemia is not limited to vegetarians." My first post on this thread. Is that mean spirited?
Second post on this thread "No they don't. Lions kill with a quick bite to the back of the neck, severing the spinal cord. Same as domestic cats." Merely stating a fact. Is that mean spirited?
Third post "When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one." Again, if you could point out where I am being mean in that one, that would be great.
I have no idea what you are reading, but I don't think it's my posts.
I apologize for not going back and not quoting every single one of your posts that have bothered me.
It was the comment about Europeans having better diets than Americans that finally broke my camel's back. That is why I couldn't even read what that particular argument was about. It was SO pretentious.
Wow. You are very rude.
If you actually read what I said. I ASKED IF Europeans have better diets than Americans. I don't know any vegetarian Americans, but I know dozens of European ones, and none have ever had a problem with anaemia or B12 deficiency. The fact that so many Americans on this thread claimed vegetarianism causes B12 deficiency made me wonder about the relative aspects of the diets.
I can't see anything that could have been taken as offensive, nor anything remotely resembling pretension (where am I pretending to be something I am not?), but you have been very rude to me in your replies.
Pot meet kettle.0 -
Exactly. I look at a cow and I think food. I look at a turkey & I think Thanksgiving dinner, I see a PIg, and I am checking out his butt because I really love Ham. I do not think of food when I see chickens though and I eat more chicken then any other food.
I think what we need to do is change how our food is processed instead of not eating it at all.
We need more regulations and maybe go back to raising our own meat or getting them from a local farmer instead of deciding that our body shouldn't eat meat all together.
Ham comes from the shoulder, it's not actually a pig's butt. :laugh: It's just called, "butt."0 -
i like meat... while i am not eating beef for nine weeks i will be treating myself to a big one after that nine weeks is up .. a high end steak at the best restaurant in town ..with sauteed mushrooms and onions0
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I watched Food Inc. and though I do disagree with the parctices displayed by their very limited look into "factory farms" and massive slaughterhouses, I find it to be very close-minded and one-sided. I grew up on a large farm, and we treated our animals ethically. With our growing population, we need large farms to help sustain us, whether the farms are for animal products or produce. It's what allows us to survive, and it is what keeps food affordable. Despite the fact the food prices are increasing, Americans still spend some of the lowest percentage of their income on food.
As part of the pro- or anti-meat argument, I have no problem eating meat. It is part of a healthy, balanced diet when eaten in moderation. I still prefer fresh beef and pork though. We buy as much of our meat as possible from a friend of ours that raises cattle and swine. I have also observed the butchering process, and it is humane. If we were all vegetarian, the animal population would become worthless, and it's likely many of them would die off. By eating them, we're maintaining the animal population while still making them worthwhile. However, I am always sure that I never throw meat away. An animal gave it's life so I could eat, and I'm not going to waste it!0 -
After you are finished beating that dead horse I hope you are going to roast it and serve it with a selection of vegetables.
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Sorry, I couldn't read your post past the first sentence.
All your posts (that I've read so-far in this thread) are self-righteous and a bit mean-spirited.
Edit: Though I agree with the 'stop with the meat pictures' thing you just posted.
Well isn't that charming of you to say?!
"Is your daughter teenage? It is very common for teenagers to become anaemic as their bodies get used to having periods. Anaemia is not limited to vegetarians." My first post on this thread. Is that mean spirited?
Second post on this thread "No they don't. Lions kill with a quick bite to the back of the neck, severing the spinal cord. Same as domestic cats." Merely stating a fact. Is that mean spirited?
Third post "When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one." Again, if you could point out where I am being mean in that one, that would be great.
I have no idea what you are reading, but I don't think it's my posts.
I apologize for not going back and not quoting every single one of your posts that have bothered me.
It was the comment about Europeans having better diets than Americans that finally broke my camel's back. That is why I couldn't even read what that particular argument was about. It was SO pretentious.
Wow. You are very rude.
If you actually read what I said. I ASKED IF Europeans have better diets than Americans. I don't know any vegetarian Americans, but I know dozens of European ones, and none have ever had a problem with anaemia or B12 deficiency. The fact that so many Americans on this thread claimed vegetarianism causes B12 deficiency made me wonder about the relative aspects of the diets.
I can't see anything that could have been taken as offensive, nor anything remotely resembling pretension (where am I pretending to be something I am not?), but you have been very rude to me in your replies.
Pot meet kettle.
Right. Whatever. I have only ever once been rude to someone personally on here, and nearly got banned for it. I am almost never personal. Unlike some people.
Anyway, what was a fun thread is now turning into bullying, so bye.0 -
It's pretty difficult to "know" you've only been rude once. Considering it's the opinion of the receiver if you've been rude0
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It's pretty difficult to "know" you've only been rude once. Considering it's the opinion of the receiver if you've been rude
Fine. PERSONAL. I haven't personally attacked or been rude to anyone here. A couple of people have been to me.
Anyway, like I said.
BYE0 -
That's what animals were put on this earth for I agree it's wrong how the animals are treated. That's why we hunt our own meat!! 0
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It's pretty difficult to "know" you've only been rude once. Considering it's the opinion of the receiver if you've been rude
Fine. PERSONAL. I haven't personally attacked or been rude to anyone here. A couple of people have been to me.
Anyway, like I said.
BYE
That was a bit rude. :blushing:0 -
I love where some on here say that a "real meat eater" should go kill them animals themselves etc. However, I guarantee you have a huge issue with me as a bowhunter killing deer, which provide me and my family with nutrient rich lean venison in a very humane way. These animals obviously live as free as free can be, and when shot with a bow, often times don't even realize much happened and are dead within seconds. Personally I don't really care if vegetarians or vegans or whoever have a problem with my diet or how I obtain my food, just don't give me a bunch of crap about how it only has to do with where the meat comes from and how it is treated before it is killed, because the reality is that animal rights activists have an issue with the death of any animal in any form or environment.0
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I was raised a vegetarian. I've seen Food, Inc. I've seen Super-Size Me, too. I've seen documentaries on animal cruelty as part of the meat preparation process. I've personally been into a slaughterhouse and watched the slaughter happen.
But I began eating meat as of my 20's and still do. The only difference now is that I make sure I buy organic, humanely raised/slaughtered, free range, no-antibiotics or pesticides used meat products. Yes, it costs more. I don't care. I want to support the people who raise them humanely, not the big-agri industries out to make a buck at the animal's expense.
On the other hand, I don't eat fast food anymore. :devil:
To each his own. The meat vs vegan/vegetarian argument is like the to spank/not to spank one, and the evolution vs creationism one, and the democrats vs republican one. No one is ever going to convince the other side of their wrongness. So best to let it be.
Live the way you want to live and leave others to do the same.0
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