Teacher Criticisms...(rant)

chanstriste13

So when YOUR childs teacher is busy. Making time for you on your terms because your time is so much more important than theirs. What will THEIR child be doing the one they gave birth to.proberly waiting around for THEIR mum to finnish making time for YOUR kid because you didn't want to take the holiday. My mum got a lot if. stuck up mums who thought all teachers owed them the world and i often lost a lot of he's of her time because she had to hang around until mums could be bothered to show their faces.

great point. it seems like many people make the assumption that teachers don't have children or lives of their own, and if they do and want to take part in it, it should only be during the vast amounts of vacation time that they receive (which they are not paid for, contrary to popular belief).

didn't you know that if you are a teacher with your own family, your family comes in *second* to the families of your students? common knowledge. why fix your own children dinner when you have the thrilling opportunity to discuss with your students' parents why they are failing when you have phoned and emailed repeatedly that they refuse to turn in assignments, but now that the progress reports have come out, they want to have a two hour long discussion about how you don't know what you are doing and how to create a suitable action plan for their child to still earn an A++ in your class without lifting a finger, keeping their GPA at a high enough score for ivy league, and by the way, can this go under service hours for their key club membership?

i know that not all parents are like this, obviously. there are some *great* parents out there who teach their students responsibility. but, man, have i seen some doozies. one lady had the nerve to call my husband at our home over the summer and leave several messages insisting that he change her daughter's grade from a 'c' to an 'a', and he had better darn well call because she was a tax payer. puh-LEase! :noway:

rdzilla

Holy cripes! This thread proved one thing: Teachers CANNOT take criticism.

loopybec2002

Holy cripes! This thread proved one thing: Teachers CANNOT take criticism.

And why should we? We are a public service did i miss the post where everyone laid into the other public services? Why do the public seem to think they own teachers. The other thing people criticise is the holidays if your that bothered become a teacher. A dinner lady or a Learning support Assistant& you too can face abuse. But have 6weeks to dry your sorrows

VegesaurusRex

just realized that i never gave my spin on what i would do differently if i were in charge. so here goes:

smaller class sizes. fifteen or less, no exceptions. it is impossible to give the degree of individualized attention that students need when you have 30+ children crammed into a room.

Disagree - class size is irrelevant if you do ability grouping. You cold have 100 in the class and do a better job with ability grouping than having a class of 15 with all mixed ability. By the way, I assume you are talking middle school/high school

hire enough teachers and build enough schools to have those smaller class sizes.

Wrong wrong wrong - It is more efficient to use existing resources including computer technology at home. In my family, as I said we skipped grade school and high school and the lack of seat time and two or three classes a week were just as good as 5 classes a week.

let us actually work on our work days. we would love to spend our work days working, rather than attending a mandatory 7 hour long workshop telling us how and why we should be working.

okay, but I also think the summer vacation should be eliminated. That would be time to hold remedial or advanced classes.

the 'ability' grouping thing may work hypothetically, but we don't get that option - we'll never be able to hand pick our students. and it would really not work well for the 100 sophomore students in one class who can't even read at a sixth grade level - because there are plenty of them to go around.

class size matters a *lot*.

even if you had 50 or 60 of the brightest of the bright, highly motivated, wanting to learn, sitting in your classroom, it just wouldn't work on a large scale because of the maturity factor of the age groups involved. yes, they do that in college, but college students are there because they want to be, generally, and they know they'll have hell to pay if they screw around and waste their parents' tuition money. public school won't reflect that in the least.

Sorry, I have to disagree strongly. I know this works for several reasons:

1. They did tracking when I was in school, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me, a poor kid from the wrong side of the tracks.

2. This is the system they use in China and India, and probably every other third world country that is presently kicking our a@@ in math and science. Do you know how many Asians we are importing because Americans are too stupid to do basic math and science? The last time you went to a doctor, what nationality was he?

3. Lack of ability grouping is political. First, the PC nuts who run our schools do not want stupid kids to feel bad, so they make everyone "gifted and talented." The Teacher's Union, supports keeping ability grouping out because smaller classes which are necessary because we do not have ability grouping create more teacher jobs. More teacher jobs mean more union dues.

4.Ability grouping prepares you for life. In reality, you are not going to have daily contact with those of vastly different abilty than you have.

5. Get rid of kids who don't want to be there. Why waste public money trying to force feed an idiot.

6. The present system, which does not include ability grouping, is just not working, and is way too expensive to sustain.

VegesaurusRex

I understand it is my child but you can't meet me halfway.[/quote]

Um, yeah, because the teacher was the other parent when you conceived right? Why do they have to "meet you halfway?" You and potentially 30 other sets of parents? Should they be working 24/7 just so they can fit each parent into a time slot that fits their schedule?

I am not a teacher, i'm a parent. WE are the children's parents, WE should have more time, love and energy invested in them than ANY teacher-They are OUR CHILDREN! No offense to teachers at all...what they do is supposed to COMPLIMENT what we do at home, not vice versa. We are the ones who are supposed to be raising the child, not them.. I know who Jaime Escalante was, and kudos to him for the things he did. It's great that he never made anyone work around his schedule. That doesn't mean, however, that all teachers are obligated to do so. I think it's rude and selfish to think a teacher should have to work around upwards of 20 parent schedules just because you seem to think your time is worth more than theirs. I think it's sad that parents are complaining that they have to take a little bit of time off of work to invest in their own children. To the top poster: take the day off, go to junior's conference, and for goodness sake, maybe take him out to lunch afterwards and actually spend time with him. Do you even remember what he looks like anymore? He is *your* child, remember? Not theirs.

So when YOUR childs teacher is busy. Making time for you on your terms because your time is so much more important than theirs. What will THEIR child be doing the one they gave birth to.proberly waiting around for THEIR mum to finnish making time for YOUR kid because you didn't want to take the holiday. My mum got a lot if. stuck up mums who thought all teachers owed them the world and i often lost a lot of he's of her time because she had to hang around until mums could be bothered to show their faces.





Teachers want to consider themselves professionals, yet they don't act professional. Have you ever seen a doctor say, "Gee, it's after three. Oprah is on. I don't think I can take care of you now, since I only work until three."

Ever hear a lawyer say, "Sorry Judge, you are going to have to stop the trial. It's three O'Clock and I have to get home. Oh, and by the way, I won't be working June, July and August, so can you continue this until September?"

A true professional does what he has to do when he has to do it. If you are not professionals, then admit it. If you claim to be professionals act like it.

I think it's pretty sorry when a group who only work 8 months a year, get out at three, and get more vacations than any one else on the planet cannot take time to do their job, but expect everyone else to cater to them. Someone here, a teacher, pointed out that this country is full of entitled people. That certainly includes teachers.

VegesaurusRex

Its fine i love my mum to bits and she was an . amazing
mum& an amazing teacher but mostof my child hood we were at school waiting for good parent s who really do love their kids to turn up for meeting but because they work& its the teachers job to look after their kid why should they make time for meetings until the parents are ready. My mum spent every holiday with me& we deserved that time togeather but unlike all my friends who's parents would pull them out of school mid term to go abroad bbecause school holidays were so expensive, me and my brother went without because our mum couldn't pull us out of school because she worked but with two kids couldn't afford the increased prices

I agree with you wholeheartedly. That's what I was trying to point out in my post above, that the teacher should not have to cater to the 20+ parents who have different work schedules. They should make the effort to be there when the teacher is available.

Okay, you just need to remember to make the effort to get sick when the doctor feels like working. Don't bother him between three PM and 9 AM. Having a baby? Sorry, your problem.

You have no clue what a professional is, or how they are supposed to act. You think teachers are a bunch of entitled princesses.

VegesaurusRex

I am a vegetarian. I feel that is the proper diet for humans. However, I realize that is not the topic of this thread. However, I follow vegetarian issues closely and was shocked when I read the following about why vegetarian literature wasn't as effective as I think it should be. The study I am quoting says that 44% of Americans read at the 8th grade level. Remember that the next time teachers ask for a raise:

Short Description:
To evaluate the readability of such materials in a more robust and transparent manner, the Humane Research Council (HRC) partnered with VegFund and FARM to test a selection of outreach materials that are commonly used by vegan advocates. The average readability scores placed these materials in the range of the 11th grade reading level or higher, which is three to four grade levels higher than the average U.S. adult.


Abstract:

Summary of Results (from report):

The average U.S. adult has a 9th or 10th grade reading level, and 44% of adults have an 8th grade reading level or lower.
HRC recommends developing vegan outreach materials at a 7th or 8th grade reading level in order to ensure comprehensibility for a large proportion of the target audience.

However, all of the vegan outreach materials evaluated in the current study are written at an 11th grade reading level or higher, indicating that the vegetarian movement’s most popular materials might be incomprehensible to half or more of the target audience.

Based on six readability tests, the average readability scores ranged from a low reading level of 11th grade for PCRM’s vegetarian starter kit to a high of 15th grade (beyond college level) for the Humane Myth brochure.

Additional research including focus groups (and possibly one-on-one interviews) would allow a more comprehensive evaluation of the materials beyond basic readability. HRC recommends a collaboration to conduct additional qualitative research at a cost of $8,000 to $12,000.

loopybec2002

Its fine i love my mum to bits and she was an . amazing
mum& an amazing teacher but mostof my child hood we were at school waiting for good parent s who really do love their kids to turn up for meeting but because they work& its the teachers job to look after their kid why should they make time for meetings until the parents are ready. My mum spent every holiday with me& we deserved that time togeather but unlike all my friends who's parents would pull them out of school mid term to go abroad bbecause school holidays were so expensive, me and my brother went without because our mum couldn't pull us out of school because she worked but with two kids couldn't afford the increased prices

I agree with you wholeheartedly. That's what I was trying to point out in my post above, that the teacher should not have to cater to the 20+ parents who have different work schedules. They should make the effort to be there when the teacher is available.

Okay, you just need to remember to make the effort to get sick when the doctor feels like working. Don't bother him between three PM and 9 AM. Having a baby? Sorry, your problem.

You have no clue what a professional is, or how they are supposed to act. You think teachers are a bunch of entitled princesses.

I would love to see you do my job for just a week. Yet I know that the first day of being called a fat sl*g by a 15 year old in a strop or spat at because you asked him not to do something you would not be returning for day two.

The other person who said we leave at 3pm every single one of our teaching staff do not leave till 4 sometimes after even though the children leave at 3pm We don't leave at 3pm any day & if I phoned my doctor and asked for an appointment AFTER hours he would not say yes ok come to the surgery. Last time my doctor arrived late and was running behind I received a phone call to say I would have to book appointment for another day. When dentention are taking place we don't leave because it's the end of the day and when growing up my mum spent many a night till 6 -7pm to make time for the parents! The point I was making was my mum was a single parent so when she was sat waiting for the parents who turned up late who made appointments and didn't keep to them It was me and my brother who were sat waiting because you thought as a public sector worker she had to do everything you requested and wait around till YOU could be bothered to meet with her.

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE HOLIDAYS BECOME A TEACHER! BUT YOU PROBERLY DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE DAY SURROUNDED BY OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN AND HAVE STROPPY PARENTS ON THE PHONE COMPLAINING THAT YOU CAN NOT WORK AROUND THEIR SHEDULES.

I love my job and I would do it if I had the holidays of not they are a bonus but it is down to a special person to become a teacher.

jnthwaite

I just started back at work. I have been attending the last two days to get the information that the rest of the teschers get and the time ti plan and collaborate.

I'm in Australia. As a contract teacher, I'm supposed to start work tomorrow, so I've just worked the last two days for free. I don't mind so much, but there are some that wouldn't do it out of general principles.

I am a new teacher, and have worked a term since I graduated. Yes, we ***** about the kids we have, the frustrations we have and the attitude of the parents etc. If we don't vent, we'd end up with mental health issues seriously!

We need a better work life balance, and people that try and make the most difference try to hard and neglect their eating, sleeping routines and socialisation. I am one of these.

I am very saddened by the comments previously that say all we do is ***** and moan. Most teachers, have non-teacher friends so that we can get away, just for a while.

I have been punched by a geade 9 boy, been threatened, intimidated, abused and that was in 8 weeks! I love my school, the staff are awesome, but we get a bad rap. Parenbts are hard on us because we're looking after their children and there is a high expectation. Realistically although we differentiate our teaching to suit the DIVERSE range of students in front of us, we have 2 minutes per student per class. Behaviour management, and no support from the home make our lives hard, but everyone is my staffroom are passionate, wonderful people, and I feel so lucky to work with them. Most people don't have the gumption to be a teacher. The pay is average, and the work we take home (marking, reporting, phone calls home etc), is phenomenal. I'd like to see the nay sayers get in to a class, manage the kids' behaviour, address different learning styles, special ed students, students with disabilities, cater for the gifted in our class, run practicals (SCience teacher here), and motivate students to learn and do the work (also a Math teacher). Dealing with adolescents and their hormones. Good luck naysayers. You're lucky to have such passionate people teaching your kids. Swap for a day? I'd love to see it!

♥ to all my fellow educators.

Jackie

VegesaurusRex

Its fine i love my mum to bits and she was an . amazing
mum& an amazing teacher but mostof my child hood we were at school waiting for good parent s who really do love their kids to turn up for meeting but because they work& its the teachers job to look after their kid why should they make time for meetings until the parents are ready. My mum spent every holiday with me& we deserved that time togeather but unlike all my friends who's parents would pull them out of school mid term to go abroad bbecause school holidays were so expensive, me and my brother went without because our mum couldn't pull us out of school because she worked but with two kids couldn't afford the increased prices

I agree with you wholeheartedly. That's what I was trying to point out in my post above, that the teacher should not have to cater to the 20+ parents who have different work schedules. They should make the effort to be there when the teacher is available.

Okay, you just need to remember to make the effort to get sick when the doctor feels like working. Don't bother him between three PM and 9 AM. Having a baby? Sorry, your problem.

You have no clue what a professional is, or how they are supposed to act. You think teachers are a bunch of entitled princesses.






I would love to see you do my job for just a week. Yet I know that the first day of being called a fat sl*g by a 15 year old in a strop or spat at because you asked him not to do something you would not be returning for day two.

I have done your job and have never been called names or been spat upon. And if I were, the name-caller or the spitter would have his face become one with the wall.

I have given lectures in both private and public schools on vegetarianism, and the kids, apparently used to pushing teachers around got smart with me. The teacher in one case called me over and asked me if I would like to have her speak with the kid involved. I told her, "No thanks. I'll handle it." And I did. The next time he made a wise-a@@ comment, I walked up to him, stood in his face and invited him to stand up like a man and share his thoughts with the rest of us. I kept on his case for five minute while the teacher was having a heart attack watching. That kid changed his attitude fast, and actually started asking intelligent questions. If you think your job is tough, you are mistaken. More likely, you just don't know how to handle it.







The other person who said we leave at 3pm every single one of our teaching staff do not leave till 4 sometimes after even though the children leave at 3pm We don't leave at 3pm any day & if I phoned my doctor and asked for an appointment AFTER hours he would not say yes ok come to the surgery. Last time my doctor arrived late and was running behind I received a phone call to say I would have to book appointment for another day. When dentention are taking place we don't leave because it's the end of the day and when growing up my mum spent many a night till 6 -7pm to make time for the parents! The point I was making was my mum was a single parent so when she was sat waiting for the parents who turned up late who made appointments and didn't keep to them It was me and my brother who were sat waiting because you thought as a public sector worker she had to do everything you requested and wait around till YOU could be bothered to meet with her.

I am questioning your professionalism. You CLAIM that the time you spend on the clock is only a fraction of the time you actually spend preparing for class, but when asked to actually spend more time where you are visible, you get all hot and bothered at the "inconvenience." And please don't tell me that your doctor wouldn't make himself available if you were having a baby or an emergency at 2:00 AM.

As far as your life and the inconveniences you suffered because your mom had to stay late, I am sure that was more than made up for by the three month summer vacations you spent with her, or the long Christmas breaks, Spring breaks or other days off she had that normal workers do not have.

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE HOLIDAYS BECOME A TEACHER! BUT YOU PROBERLY DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE DAY SURROUNDED BY OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN AND HAVE STROPPY PARENTS ON THE PHONE COMPLAINING THAT YOU CAN NOT WORK AROUND THEIR SHEDULES.

I have done teaching and I love it. If you are having a hard time then you should switch to another job . The amount of holidays teachers get is obscene.

I love my job and I would do it if I had the holidays of not they are a bonus but it is down to a special person to become a teacher.

chanstriste13

Holy cripes! This thread proved one thing: Teachers CANNOT take criticism.

silliness.

iuangina

I wasn't going to comment on this topic because I'm pretty strongly opinionated. Unions were created in the 1890's to protect uneducated workers from being taken advantage of by company higher-ups. Now that we've come 120+ years into the future and America has moved away from being an industrial and manufacturing country there is absolutely zero need for unions any longer. If I went on strike I would be fired from my job. Easy as that. Once a teacher is tenured they have to do something completely stupid in order to get fired. From there teachers become apathetic to the needs of their students and no longer care about making sure the child is receiving a fair and justifiable education. You could apply the "you can lead a student to a classroom but you can't make them learn" argument but as a teacher your job is 50% educator and 50% motivator. If you didn't realize that before you got into teaching then that sucks. Hiding behind a union for protection is absolutely ridiculous considering 99% of teachers in America are college graduates who should be able to think on their own without being taken advantage of by a district. Besides, what was the last valuable thing a union did for you? Be honest. Do I think teachers are paid correctly? Absolutely. If I had 3.5 months off a year, incredible benefits, guaranteed pay raises and the ability to almost never get fired I'd be ecstatic.

With all due respect, then become a teacher.

I don't hide behind my Union. The last vaulable thing my Union did for me was give me the gift of time. Because of my Union and its continued efforts over the years, I got to spend time with my father as he was dying. My union has worked for years to help teachers secure benefits such as that one.

Good God, life is not a remote .... get up and change it yourself.

You, too, can be ecstatic. Why on Earth would you not be in a field of work in which you're not ecstatic?

Please clarify.

Great... and as they should but they are the problem. They dont care for you or for the student. They care for themselves and no one else. Even some people close to the union have even said, its main purpose now is to protect the bad teachers.

There are no need for unions anymore.

As someone who works in a non-union state, they are still useful in some cases. We get taken advantage of because there are no unions. We are forced to attend non-compensated training for many hours outside the work day (up to weeks at a time) (and please don't start about how other professions have this type of training too - they get benefits in other ways such as bonuses and comp time). I'm not arguing that teachers should be paid more, but just like other workers teachers should be compensated for time worked in some way. We also have no one to fight against ridiculous policies and procedures (for example, every time you take sick leave you have to go to the doctor - (that's ridiculous I don't know of any other profession that has that requirement for a salaried employee unless there is a leave abuse problem), or here's a duty - you must be here 30 minutes before the scheduled start of your work day to watch children who arrive early, but you don't get to leave early, or here's a paycheck, but oh wait, we have to take part of that back because we are instituted a retroactive furlough day (we don't care that you did work on that day). I think unions are out of control in a lot of cases. However, there needs to be a middle ground. I don't think that bad teachers should be protected but there are things that a union provides that are still important. There are protections against discrimination and other unfair labor practices that unions help enforce. I understand that unions started to protect unskilled labor, but I hate to tell you that there are unions that exist today for everything from plumbers to lawyers/doctors and everything in between. Do you think all unions should be done away with or do you simply believe that it's just the teachers?

As far as teachers being available to parents, I think most are very accomodating (within reason), but comparing teachers to doctors is very unfair. Doctors have answering services after hours and if there is an emergency you go to another doctor or the hospital. I'm sorry, but there is no conference that is an emergency unless CPS or other law enforcement agencies are invovled. Your doctor is not required to stay after hours to accomodate your schedule as a patient. Your doctor also probably charges you a fee if you fail to show up without calling to cancel. If parents don't show up, the teachers simply have to smile and deal with it. Not to mention, doctors get paid much more than a teacher. A teacher's family does not and should not take a backseat to their job. I have an administrator who believes that it's family first, then work. I am thankful for that every day because my family is just as important to me as your child is to you. There needs to be a level of respect.

chanstriste13

The amount of holidays teachers get is obscene.

*rolling eyes*

i don't see why you have such an issue with this. we don't set the schedule. the summers off are for the students. we don't get paid for that time. if we worked 12 months out of the year, we'd make more money, which would be nice. did you have summers off when you were in school growing up, or did you come through some highly progressive model that sat young children at their desks 52 weeks out of the year? this summers off thing is a moot point.

jennajava

Is this thread still alive?

Let it go, people.

swisspea

I LOVE being a teacher, I am brave and strong and inspiring and I totally deserve to get paid decently for working my butt off every day for my students and I deserve a few weeks off.

Luckily I DON'T work in America or Canada, so I can at least get paid decently.

efwolfcub

Anyone wanting to discuss teacher's pay should read this.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/10/assessing-the-compensation-of-public-school-teachers#_ftn3

I'm about as likely to look to heritage for information regarding teacher pay as I am to look at the westboro baptist church page for information regarding gay rights.

raven56706

I wasn't going to comment on this topic because I'm pretty strongly opinionated. Unions were created in the 1890's to protect uneducated workers from being taken advantage of by company higher-ups. Now that we've come 120+ years into the future and America has moved away from being an industrial and manufacturing country there is absolutely zero need for unions any longer. If I went on strike I would be fired from my job. Easy as that. Once a teacher is tenured they have to do something completely stupid in order to get fired. From there teachers become apathetic to the needs of their students and no longer care about making sure the child is receiving a fair and justifiable education. You could apply the "you can lead a student to a classroom but you can't make them learn" argument but as a teacher your job is 50% educator and 50% motivator. If you didn't realize that before you got into teaching then that sucks. Hiding behind a union for protection is absolutely ridiculous considering 99% of teachers in America are college graduates who should be able to think on their own without being taken advantage of by a district. Besides, what was the last valuable thing a union did for you? Be honest. Do I think teachers are paid correctly? Absolutely. If I had 3.5 months off a year, incredible benefits, guaranteed pay raises and the ability to almost never get fired I'd be ecstatic.

With all due respect, then become a teacher.

I don't hide behind my Union. The last vaulable thing my Union did for me was give me the gift of time. Because of my Union and its continued efforts over the years, I got to spend time with my father as he was dying. My union has worked for years to help teachers secure benefits such as that one.

Good God, life is not a remote .... get up and change it yourself.

You, too, can be ecstatic. Why on Earth would you not be in a field of work in which you're not ecstatic?

Please clarify.

Great... and as they should but they are the problem. They dont care for you or for the student. They care for themselves and no one else. Even some people close to the union have even said, its main purpose now is to protect the bad teachers.

There are no need for unions anymore.

As someone who works in a non-union state, they are still useful in some cases. We get taken advantage of because there are no unions. We are forced to attend non-compensated training for many hours outside the work day (up to weeks at a time) (and please don't start about how other professions have this type of training too - they get benefits in other ways such as bonuses and comp time). I'm not arguing that teachers should be paid more, but just like other workers teachers should be compensated for time worked in some way. We also have no one to fight against ridiculous policies and procedures (for example, every time you take sick leave you have to go to the doctor - (that's ridiculous I don't know of any other profession that has that requirement for a salaried employee unless there is a leave abuse problem), or here's a duty - you must be here 30 minutes before the scheduled start of your work day to watch children who arrive early, but you don't get to leave early, or here's a paycheck, but oh wait, we have to take part of that back because we are instituted a retroactive furlough day (we don't care that you did work on that day). I think unions are out of control in a lot of cases. However, there needs to be a middle ground. I don't think that bad teachers should be protected but there are things that a union provides that are still important. There are protections against discrimination and other unfair labor practices that unions help enforce. I understand that unions started to protect unskilled labor, but I hate to tell you that there are unions that exist today for everything from plumbers to lawyers/doctors and everything in between. Do you think all unions should be done away with or do you simply believe that it's just the teachers?

As far as teachers being available to parents, I think most are very accomodating (within reason), but comparing teachers to doctors is very unfair. Doctors have answering services after hours and if there is an emergency you go to another doctor or the hospital. I'm sorry, but there is no conference that is an emergency unless CPS or other law enforcement agencies are invovled. Your doctor is not required to stay after hours to accomodate your schedule as a patient. Your doctor also probably charges you a fee if you fail to show up without calling to cancel. If parents don't show up, the teachers simply have to smile and deal with it. Not to mention, doctors get paid much more than a teacher. A teacher's family does not and should not take a backseat to their job. I have an administrator who believes that it's family first, then work. I am thankful for that every day because my family is just as important to me as your child is to you. There needs to be a level of respect.

again... unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good... Unions were needed a long time ago... now they are just instigators for nothing.... there are so many laws in place that anyone is protected. all you need to do is hire a lawyer...

but look at the process of firing a teacher... hell look at how it is at firing a teacher who is accused of sexually getting involved with a student... we still pay the person and it takes forever to fire them... i mean come on now... that is wrong.. pretty damn wrong

chanstriste13

Teachers want to consider themselves professionals, yet they don't act professional. Have you ever seen a doctor say, "Gee, it's after three. Oprah is on. I don't think I can take care of you now, since I only work until three."

Ever hear a lawyer say, "Sorry Judge, you are going to have to stop the trial. It's three O'Clock and I have to get home. Oh, and by the way, I won't be working June, July and August, so can you continue this until September?"

A true professional does what he has to do when he has to do it. If you are not professionals, then admit it. If you claim to be professionals act like it.

I think it's pretty sorry when a group who only work 8 months a year, get out at three, and get more vacations than any one else on the planet cannot take time to do their job, but expect everyone else to cater to them. Someone here, a teacher, pointed out that this country is full of entitled people. That certainly includes teachers.

where are you getting this from? you homeschooled your children, right? when have you had this incredibly poor interaction with a teacher? did this ever actually happen to you, or have you ever *actually* seen this happen? this is about your third 'oprah' reference in this thread and i'm curious as to whether you have a valid experience with this or you just think it sounds clever.

as for teachers not being professionals...(should i even dignify this with an answer at all?)

well, it takes some pretty fair amounts of professionalism to stick to the facts and only the facts when a student and their parent are bombarding you with f-bombs and accusations and not listening to a thing you say in a conference when all you want is the student to graduate.

you should take your homeschool/private tutoring experience and go volunteer at a low income school. then report back here. until then, your perception is pretty much void because you have only seen such a small (privileged) part of the education system.

i have never seen a teacher that bolts for home when the bell rings. i have never seen a teacher walk into a school just as their class is starting. and i've actually worked in some schools, so i can speak on the subject to some degree. and i've never heard of a teacher denying conference time with a parent, unless there was a very good reason for it (like a final AP exam review that had been scheduled for over a month).

my husband's school begins at 8:50 and dismisses at 3:40, but he leaves at 7:00 in the morning and doesn't come home until around 6 on most evenings (and it's not a commute - he just gets there very early). and he grades essays on the weekends. last night he went back at 8pm for a rehearsal with two other teachers to practice a routine for a pep rally coming up. they want it to be a good one for their students.

yes, my husband is a kicka$s teacher, but he's not a rarity. and i have yet to see a teacher expect to be catered to. i'm sure it's happening somewhere to a small degree, but....catered to? are you kidding me? thanks for the chuckles.

and enough with the unions already. i wish we had a union.

VegesaurusRex

However, there needs to be a middle ground. I don't think that bad teachers should be protected but there are things that a union provides that are still important. There are protections against discrimination and other unfair labor practices that unions help enforce. I understand that unions started to protect unskilled labor, but I hate to tell you that there are unions that exist today for everything from plumbers to lawyers/doctors and everything in between.

I am not aware of any union for doctors or lawyers. Where did you get that?


Do you think all unions should be done away with or do you simply believe that it's just the teachers?

I think most unions have outlived their usefulness and should be eliminated.

As far as teachers being available to parents, I think most are very accomodating (within reason), but comparing teachers to doctors is very unfair. Doctors have answering services after hours and if there is an emergency you go to another doctor or the hospital. I'm sorry, but there is no conference that is an emergency unless CPS or other law enforcement agencies are invovled. Your doctor is not required to stay after hours to accomodate your schedule as a patient. Your doctor also probably charges you a fee if you fail to show up without calling to cancel. If parents don't show up, the teachers simply have to smile and deal with it. Not to mention, doctors get paid much more than a teacher.

Doctors also have a lot more education, responsiblity and the profession is far more selective about who gets in. Comparing salaries is a red herring, because if you really look at the amount teachers get for the time they are on the clock that is way more than comparable jobs requiring a bachelor's degree. Way more. With far more perks, such as health and dental, and let's not mention the vacations.


A teacher's family does not and should not take a backseat to their job. I have an administrator who believes that it's family first, then work. I am thankful for that every day because my family is just as important to me as your child is to you. There needs to be a level of respect.

Respect is earned. From what I am reading on this board, the complaints of teachers about having to accomodate parents who also work is just ridiculous. Complaints about having to go to unpaid training is ridiculous. In professions such as law and medicine, the participants in conferences or training in new technology pay for their own conferences. And they may get the time off to do this, but their same work load needs to be handled when they get back.

I am seriously asking what gives teachers the right to call themselves professionals?

iuangina

I wasn't going to comment on this topic because I'm pretty strongly opinionated. Unions were created in the 1890's to protect uneducated workers from being taken advantage of by company higher-ups. Now that we've come 120+ years into the future and America has moved away from being an industrial and manufacturing country there is absolutely zero need for unions any longer. If I went on strike I would be fired from my job. Easy as that. Once a teacher is tenured they have to do something completely stupid in order to get fired. From there teachers become apathetic to the needs of their students and no longer care about making sure the child is receiving a fair and justifiable education. You could apply the "you can lead a student to a classroom but you can't make them learn" argument but as a teacher your job is 50% educator and 50% motivator. If you didn't realize that before you got into teaching then that sucks. Hiding behind a union for protection is absolutely ridiculous considering 99% of teachers in America are college graduates who should be able to think on their own without being taken advantage of by a district. Besides, what was the last valuable thing a union did for you? Be honest. Do I think teachers are paid correctly? Absolutely. If I had 3.5 months off a year, incredible benefits, guaranteed pay raises and the ability to almost never get fired I'd be ecstatic.

With all due respect, then become a teacher.

I don't hide behind my Union. The last vaulable thing my Union did for me was give me the gift of time. Because of my Union and its continued efforts over the years, I got to spend time with my father as he was dying. My union has worked for years to help teachers secure benefits such as that one.

Good God, life is not a remote .... get up and change it yourself.

You, too, can be ecstatic. Why on Earth would you not be in a field of work in which you're not ecstatic?

Please clarify.

Great... and as they should but they are the problem. They dont care for you or for the student. They care for themselves and no one else. Even some people close to the union have even said, its main purpose now is to protect the bad teachers.

There are no need for unions anymore.

As someone who works in a non-union state, they are still useful in some cases. We get taken advantage of because there are no unions. We are forced to attend non-compensated training for many hours outside the work day (up to weeks at a time) (and please don't start about how other professions have this type of training too - they get benefits in other ways such as bonuses and comp time). I'm not arguing that teachers should be paid more, but just like other workers teachers should be compensated for time worked in some way. We also have no one to fight against ridiculous policies and procedures (for example, every time you take sick leave you have to go to the doctor - (that's ridiculous I don't know of any other profession that has that requirement for a salaried employee unless there is a leave abuse problem), or here's a duty - you must be here 30 minutes before the scheduled start of your work day to watch children who arrive early, but you don't get to leave early, or here's a paycheck, but oh wait, we have to take part of that back because we are instituted a retroactive furlough day (we don't care that you did work on that day). I think unions are out of control in a lot of cases. However, there needs to be a middle ground. I don't think that bad teachers should be protected but there are things that a union provides that are still important. There are protections against discrimination and other unfair labor practices that unions help enforce. I understand that unions started to protect unskilled labor, but I hate to tell you that there are unions that exist today for everything from plumbers to lawyers/doctors and everything in between. Do you think all unions should be done away with or do you simply believe that it's just the teachers?

As far as teachers being available to parents, I think most are very accomodating (within reason), but comparing teachers to doctors is very unfair. Doctors have answering services after hours and if there is an emergency you go to another doctor or the hospital. I'm sorry, but there is no conference that is an emergency unless CPS or other law enforcement agencies are invovled. Your doctor is not required to stay after hours to accomodate your schedule as a patient. Your doctor also probably charges you a fee if you fail to show up without calling to cancel. If parents don't show up, the teachers simply have to smile and deal with it. Not to mention, doctors get paid much more than a teacher. A teacher's family does not and should not take a backseat to their job. I have an administrator who believes that it's family first, then work. I am thankful for that every day because my family is just as important to me as your child is to you. There needs to be a level of respect.

again... unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good... Unions were needed a long time ago... now they are just instigators for nothing.... there are so many laws in place that anyone is protected. all you need to do is hire a lawyer...

but look at the process of firing a teacher... hell look at how it is at firing a teacher who is accused of sexually getting involved with a student... we still pay the person and it takes forever to fire them... i mean come on now... that is wrong.. pretty damn wrong

This is true of any government employee. It takes forever to get rid of anyone who works for the government. That's the way it is.