Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
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<<<<<<< Homeschooling parent... Guess yelling at my wife is out of the question huh? :laugh:
Homeschooling parent.... If my husband yells at me we will have a throw down on the playground. :laugh:0 -
I'm not a teacher, but in today's world and especially with the number of parents I see who do not teach their children to #1 respect thier teachers and #2 that thier education is the most valuable thing they will ever receive, I don't know how so many teachers hang in there and keep trying. Teachers are paid WAY less than many other professionals even though *someone* with some say so needs to consider the possibility that outstanding pay might have the result of attracting and keeping outstanding teachers. There certainly are problems in our educational system, including some teachers who do not do their jobs very well; however, it is the whole system that isn't working as well as we'd like, in spite of most teachers doing a very good job.0
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A-Freakin'-Men!!What Do Teachers Make?
by Author Unknown
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education.
He argued: "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminded the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can't...teach."
To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You're a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?"
Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"
"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could."
“I make kids believe in themselves when no one else will.”
"I make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."
"I make parents tremble in fear when I call home"
"You want to know what I make?
"I make kids wonder."
"I make them question."
"I make them criticize."
"I make them apologize and mean it."
"I make them write."
"I make them read, read, read."
"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again."
"I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English."
"I make them understand that if you have a dream, then follow it...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make or what you do, you pay them no attention."
"You want to know what I make?!"
"I make a difference."
"What about you?"0 -
Teachers do not need more time off then they already get. They should pay for more of their benefits....everyone else has to and I have to do it on a portion of the pay that they get. I am not saying that we do not supprt our teachers but when a state is broke, money has to come from somewhere and there needs to be a limit on spending. There is too much money thrown at things that the 'fix' isn't always money. It amazes me how people dont stop to realize that we cannot have it all. We don't want our taxes raised, but we should keep giving state employees MORE and MORE....but don't you dare raise our taxes.
our issue isn't wanting more and more, it's just we'd rather not foot the bill by ourselves for the taxes people in our state aren't willing to pay. and we'd rather not have our paychecks cut into (1/3 of our checks taken out two months in a row for two years to help with our state budget) and we'd rather not have furlough days. i would like to see the reaction of anyone working in the private sector who was told, 'oh, by the way, in june and july, your paycheck is going to decreased by 33% to help us get out of the hole. nothing personal.' i doubt a lot of people can even imagine that!
it's not a matter of wanting more, but in our state, state workers are the only ones having to give up anything. uncool.
can't comment on the union thing - we don't have any.0 -
I agree that the people who work with the students directly definitely do not get paid what they should. I am currently in my last year of my degree to teach! I did most of that degree while I was working full time at a inner city school district as a special education paraprofessional while also raising my two children, one of which has Cerebral Palsy. I was there for 8 years when I left and made 12 an hour. My district, which is in New York, or any other district does not pay for your degree. They do have assistance with tuition, but it was not very much. Actually, they got rid of it one year after introducing it. Starting pay around where I live is roughly 36,000, which is not bad, but after I am done with school and start paying student loans, that will be nothing. Right now with my Bachelors, I owe 60,000. That does not include the Masters I will be going for or the additional certification to add reading to the Special Education. That Masters will tack on at least 30,000 more dollars. When I apply for financial aid, they make me do a calendar each time to see how much my husband and I will have to make in order to pay my loans off in the normal time frame of 10 years, and that is 140.000 a year. Right now my husband is a first year electrician apprentice making 13 an hour. By the time he is done in 5 years, he will make 60,000 a year. Add my 36,000, IF I find a job, and it is not nearly enough to pay for the education I needed because I LOVE children and I want them to learn to their full potential! Teachers are not paid through the year. They have monies deducted out of their checks to cover the summer. I know plenty of teachers that do that and still have to max out a credit card to get through summer, even while taking trainings and working summer schools. Weekends off. Ya right. Have you ever seen a lesson plan? The ones that my school makes me do are long and take 3 hours for just one subject. Add 7 subjects to that, that is a lot of time. The teacher's I worked with went to school at 7 even though school started at 8:30 because they would allow parents to come in the morning, and leave around 5 because of the same thing. Then many would come back due to after school activities and not leave til 8 or 9. Add grading homework to that, it is a rough job that takes a lot of time. Now the people who do get overpaid in my opinion are the administrators. Not all, but some. My old administrator did nothing. She did not walk around, she never really carried through with discipline and contributed to gossip in our building which left us with low moral. Then you have Superintendents. They do not have an easy job, they do run a whole school system, but they can make upwards of 300,000. That's just insane!0
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OK....I think we all understand that UNIONS are the DEVIL. It's been stated over and over again. The horse is dead.....get off.
That being said....I'm in a non-union state so what is the problem here? All the stats I see indicate that the students are achieving at a higher level in union states vs non-union states (GA is near the bottom of the list when it comes to student acheivement).0 -
I am currently in my last year of my degree to teach! I did most of that degree while I was working full time at a inner city school district as a special education paraprofessional while also raising my two children, one of which has Cerebral Palsy.
kudos to you! you are an amazing woman! best wishes to you and yours! :flowerforyou:0 -
OK....I think we all understand that UNIONS are the DEVIL. It's been stated over and over again. The horse is dead.....get off.
That being said....I'm in a non-union state so what is the problem here? All the stats I see indicate that the students are achieving at a higher level in union states vs non-union states (GA is near the bottom of the list when it comes to student acheivement).
ooh...throw your stats my way - i wanna looksie!
i'm going to look into the union thing too. nc is non-union, but i really want to know what it is about them that is getting everyone's panties in a wad! they sound pretty good to me. i'm going to have to go through the thread now and see if any teachers have complained about unions, or if it's only been non-teachers. fascinating!0 -
I would like "like", "love", and "dislike" buttons, please.
Anyone complaining that teachers are overpaid need to spend time volunteering in the schools around them. There are plenty of volunteer need from mentoring, to reading helper, math helper, and more! IF people would teach their kids to respect authority and others... AND themselves, the teachers' jobs would be slightly easier. Oh and we could save so much more if we stopped giving them all of the regulated paperwork that goes along with teaching.
There is so much more to say but with 20+ pages, I am not even going there!0 -
This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.
Couldn't agree with you more! This goes beyond just teachers, this goes for anyone who is not happy and complains all day about their job. Maybe it is time to move on to something more fitting.0 -
A-Freakin'-Men!!What Do Teachers Make?
by Author Unknown
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education.
He argued: "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminded the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can't...teach."
To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You're a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?"
Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"
"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could."
“I make kids believe in themselves when no one else will.”
"I make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."
"I make parents tremble in fear when I call home"
"You want to know what I make?
"I make kids wonder."
"I make them question."
"I make them criticize."
"I make them apologize and mean it."
"I make them write."
"I make them read, read, read."
"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again."
"I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English."
"I make them understand that if you have a dream, then follow it...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make or what you do, you pay them no attention."
"You want to know what I make?!"
"I make a difference."
"What about you?"
This is by Taylor Mali. Many copies to listen to on YouTube
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Thank you:) I am kind of embarrassed. I wasn't throwing that in for kudos so to speak, but to show that I was dedicated enough to want to teach:)0
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Teacher salaries are meager at best, anyone complaining that teachers are raiding tax payer coffers is completely off base. I know the kool-aid is tasty but its caloric content is ridiculous, I suggest you put it down.0
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If you want to hear teacher criticism...try working for a school district that switched to a four-day school week last year!
We did it for financial reasons and it has saved our district 1% of our budget, which some people refer to as a "measly savings of 1%". The other options we faced centered around cutting teachers and increasing class size.
I believe that it has been a good move for our district. However, many people that live in our small town believe that, "of course, teachers like it...they get an extra day off every week!" Some people feel we are cheating their children, even though we actually spent MORE hours in school with the 4day week than in previous years going to school 5 days!
I'm not sure if any other teachers on here teach in a 4-day district, but I would be interested to hear what they have to say...0 -
OK....I think we all understand that UNIONS are the DEVIL. It's been stated over and over again. The horse is dead.....get off.
That being said....I'm in a non-union state so what is the problem here? All the stats I see indicate that the students are achieving at a higher level in union states vs non-union states (GA is near the bottom of the list when it comes to student acheivement).
ooh...throw your stats my way - i wanna looksie!
i'm going to look into the union thing too. nc is non-union, but i really want to know what it is about them that is getting everyone's panties in a wad! they sound pretty good to me. i'm going to have to go through the thread now and see if any teachers have complained about unions, or if it's only been non-teachers. fascinating!
I'll have to find them. It's been a few years since I've looked at it. I know that the ranking put GA at the bottom and we have no union. Where as NY is much higher and they have a union. I'm talking about performance on nationally normed tests (i.e., SAT/ACT, ITBS,CTBS, etc.). I did a paper on this about 3 years ago and I doubt it's changed too much.0 -
Teacher salaries are meager at best, anyone complaining that teachers are raiding tax payer coffers is completely off base. I know the kool-aid is tasty but its caloric content is ridiculous, I suggest you put it down.
I don't call 70 grand a year meager. SOME teachers are making a meager salary, not all. I'm not saying teachers are overpaid either. As with every profession there are good and bad. People react more passionately to the bad teachers as opposed to say a bad sales clerk because it directly affects their children.0 -
i just saw on another post the mention of teachers 'snivelling' for more money when they are not getting results. this kind of thing burns just burns me up.
i can't stand it when people who have never stuck a toe in the education field go on about how teachers are lazy, get paid for nothing in the summer, and are only babysitting anyways, so how hard can it really be?
then you have the people who want to run education like a business, and if you don't get the results, you don't get the pay. if education was a business, teachers could fire and hire the students based on their performance. but no. we don't get that option.
we teach *everyone*, no matter what. even if they only show up to school once a week. even if their parents cuss us out on the phone and tell us that *their* child is *our* problem when they are at school. even if a student consistently refuses to lift a finger because they just do not care. and we are still held accountable for a student's testing scores even if they were expelled from school for 150 days out of 180.
there are always going to be teachers who drop the ball and don't do their part, but the majority of us never give up on those students who have already given up on themselves. we keep hoping that one day they might open their book, write something down and learn something.
boo to people that criticize the general educator populace without ever having taught. if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea.0 -
can't believe this one rolled. continue to blast away!0
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bumping just to follow0
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bumping just to follow
did you get a look at part one? it's a riot!0 -
Socio-economic background has more to do with student performance than teacher pay, union vs non-union, and any other stat people throw around. Here in California many schools get additional funding based on property tax receipts, the higher the home values in the area surrounding the school the more resources the school will have. Schools in high property value areas typically have a smaller student to teacher ratio than schools in poorer zip codes.0
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bumping just to follow
did you get a look at part one? it's a riot!
I've been following it since you first posted. Sometimes I need my blood pressure to go up and this thread delivers! 0 -
tl;dr
My first year teaching high school I had 4 different subjects in 3 classrooms, only 2 periods of which didn't require me to switch locations. The average class had 35 students, with two at over 40 pupils. I had students sitting on the floor because there weren't enough chairs for everyone.
The school told me to just deal with it because quite a few would (supposedly) be gone before the end of the first month. When I gave tests, I would have fewer than 10 students, due to people out for student council, ball games, field trips, etc; also have to count the 5-7 ESL students who would be out with the interpretor, and the 4 or 5 LD kids who also needed to take tests with an assistant.
The feedback I got from the principal when he observed my classroom? "You should hang more student work on the walls." Gee, thanks for all the help there bub! BTW, my total budget for the year was $75 (total, not per class), which needed to include all my copier paper, pens, and any other supplies I or my students might need.
The school was over 90% free and reduced lunch. The last morning bus didn't arrive until just before first bell, so I had quite a few students who still had their breakfast in their hands when they came to class. There was only one lunch period, and the lines were so long that unless they ran from class straight to the gym it could take the whole lunch break before the kids got to the front of the line.
For quite a few of my students, these were the only two meals they had for the day.
Anyhow, I'm not teaching anymore. Sometimes I miss it, and then I remember that when I get off work now my job isn't following me home. I don't need to grade papers, prepare assignments, call parents...
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I am a teacher and would gladly take the pay of a babysitter!
Let's say that I charge $3/hour/kid. I have 27 kids in my class:
$3 x 27 = $81/hour
I am SCHEDULED to work from 8:45 - 4:15 (though I am usually at school before 8 and leave around 5):
$81 x 7 (taking out my lunch - 30 min.) = $567/day
I work 36 weeks per year, and that does account for summer break and other days off:
$567 x 5 days/week = $2835 x 36 weeks/year = $102,060/year
Now, I also have a MA in education, but I won't charge extra for my extra knowledge of how to better serve your children.
I make less than $40,000/year. So, PLEASE let me charge babysitter rates! I would love that!
^^Haha..>THIS...I CHOSE this undervalued and underpaid field because I am passionate about education. Those teachers who educated the nuckleheads that speak out against teachers are embarrassed.
EDIT: Apparently I'm a thread killer. But I wanted to say factor in the fact that there are no "laws" for the level of education a "babysitter" has to have - that's downright scary!0 -
Anyhow, I'm not teaching anymore. Sometimes I miss it, and then I remember that when I get off work now my job isn't following me home.
well said! i think this is what people outside of education don't realize - that our time off is *not* really time off!0 -
Those teachers who educated the nuckleheads that speak out against teachers are embarrassed.
very much agree!
i get a kick out of my friends who have children get to b!tching about how all the teachers are doing it wrong, summers should be cancelled because their dear heart's have so much trouble catching up in the fall (translation for my friends: i don't want to deal with the little heathens i've spawned for ten weeks!), about how the public school system is going to land their darlings a job flipping burgers at best, and all i can think is, 'what happened to you? i went to school with you so i know that your summers off didn't keep you from college, or that your teachers made you stupid!'
oh well. :ohwell:0 -
Okay, this board is a mere shaddow of the former one. What topic can I start talking about to get things moving?
1. Homeschooling?
2. The Teacher Unions?
3. What to do with kids who don't want to be in school?
4. Ability grouping?
5. Gifted Education?
Surely we can liven things up a bit.0 -
Okay, I guess that went over like a lead balloon. How about discussing year round school?0
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Okay, looks like this board is dead. I guess the majority of teachers here do not want to discuss important contemporary issues, but would rather talk about how awful parents are and how hard their jobs are.
One parting thought. We are in a new world and a new paradigm. There are limited resouces to go around. Manufacturing jobs and other jobs for people who are not well educated are disappearing. The days of unlimited resources for public schools are at an end. Wisconsin is the way of the future. You teachers and parents have to start learning to do more with less. This means for the teachers working harder and getting less money. This is what happens in the private schools now. There will be no Unions to protect you. They will be gone. You cannot expect those who are barely making it themselves to protect your pampered life style.
There are no resources to waste on kids who do not want to be in school. If they are not interested kick them out. There will be no more jobs for those who got into teaching to help those who don't want to be helped.
The role of the parents in this new paradigm is changing. Some will, like we did, take control of our own kids' education and homeschool. Others will take control of their local systems and institute massive local changes, such as vouchers, tax refunds for those who homeschool or send their kids to private school. They will fight for the right to fire teachers, and for eliminating tenure. The present school system is only helping those who run it, not those who go through it.
The public schools are dysfunctional and have been for a long time. The new mantra will be "Change or die." The only people in the system that actually do any good are those who fight the system, the John Taylor Gottos, and the Jaime Escalentes. In Connecticut, we have the highest paid teachers of any state in the country. Our schools are, at best mediocre. At worst, pathetic. When the system fails or disappoints, it is not the parents who are at fault, it is the teachers. Yes, I do believe that the parents are the single biggest influence in their kids lives, and have primary responsibility for their kids' education. Some parents exercise that responsibility by trusting the system. These are the saddest cases. And when the system fails, the teachers blame the parents for trusting them, the teachers.
Things are changing. Since the days of Civil Rights, the pie has been getting divided by more and more people into smaller and smaller pieces. This current recession is not a recession, but the way it is going to be from now on. Get used to it. There just isn't enough to go around.0 -
I have immense respect for teachers - there is not enough money in existence to get me to do that job - but respect does not equal unqualified admiration or a free pass from criticism. I had some great teachers, many barely-adequate teachers, and some who were truly abysmal. To the former, I am eternally grateful, of the latter, and even more so of the barely-adequate, whose impact could have been so much greater with just a little more effort or interest, I am uniformly critical. Doing a job that is perceived as 'worthy' does not make that group immune to criticism. I criticise nurses who fail their patients as well, and I'd have harsh words for firemen who failed to put out fires. Why should teachers be exempt?0
This discussion has been closed.
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