Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
Replies
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Here's my opinion...
Some people are born to work and rise over all to become CEOs. Some people don't. And some (a very few) are born teachers...
Teachers are a special group of people that I see in all areas of my professional life. These are the best kind of people to work for; I've always thought that from the time I can remember (around kindergarten) and here's why:
My kindergarten teacher Mrs. Coy placed 5 crayons in the middle of the table so that we could complete our workbook page of circling the correct picture to go with the word and tracing the lines of the letters of the alphabet. I grabbed for the red crayon and so did another boy. We broke the crayon, so I reached for the remaining one. Mrs. Coy made us both use the broken one, telling us that once you made a decision, you should always follow the path. It may not work out for you the way you want, but you will see that it was the best decision for you at the time. I remember that.
In first grade, there were three of us at Mr. Coy's day school. I learned that no matter how many kids are in your class, there will always be one student that doesn't like you. But there will always be at least one that does.
In second grade, I started public school. Also the day my sister was born, my crazy aunt took me. She is a flashy soul and I was very embarrassed. One student that I knew from dancing class called me over to her and her friends. And I saw that Mr. Coy was right. There will always be one student that likes you and makes you feel accepted.
Over the years, I had many teachers in school and at home, as my father taught Government at the local high school. An A- leaves room for improvement (daddy's rule) and an A+ means that you can learn more.
Complete sentences are the best communication (Mrs. Martin-4th grade).
Writing mean comments in someone's yearbook will last a lifetime (Mr. Briggs--6th grade).
Extracurricular activities do not give you a pass from reading The Hobbit (Mrs. Peavler-12th grade) and taking the exam before the band trip.
Typing tests can easily disqualify you by grade point average from performing at half-time (Mrs. Barclay-10th grade).
Being a part of something bigger than you are is the most amazing feeling ever (Mr. Trousdale-10th through 12th grade Band Director) and being a twirler doesn't make you a part of the band, but playing an instrument does.
Just because you don't understand 3 dimensional calculations the way I teach means you learn differently and need a tutor and does not mean you are stupid (Mr. "Physics" -12th grade).
When writing anything, knowing your audience is the first step (Dr. Gall-English Comp 1 Community College Beaver County).
Pushing to learn how other's learn is the first step to an enriched life and they taught me this by example (Mr. Bau/Mrs. Reed/Mrs. Podolak--Accounting Professors Community College Beaver County).
Reading children's books gives you the same lessons in a different way (Robert Morris College-Young Adult Literature).
"I have only had one other student to point out this project and you are the only student to consistently grow in this class." (Organizational Behavior-Robert Morris College).
During college I was the accounting tutor. I had a student that came for help every day. She had a short term memory problem and it took her 4 times reading and noting her chapters to get the knowledge into long term memory. She made me work harder to help her understand and her accomplishments were amazing. Really her grade point average was astonishing!
I am grateful to have been blessed with a teacher's heart. My children have benefited from having someone in their life that will state their problem and offer several paths to follow and to constantly "hold their hands" as they walk.
I've heard the phrase, "Those who can do and those who can't teach". It should read, "There are those learn and go, and then there are those who learn and stay to help the others along the way."
Kudos for teachers...hard job...terrible hours...awful organizational chart with multiple reporting lines...but most of all -- you have to talk to parents..UGH!!!0 -
Kudos for teachers...hard job...terrible hours...awful organizational chart with multiple reporting lines...but most of all -- you have to talk to parents..UGH!!!
God help you if you actually have to talk to parents! After all, they have nothing to do with a child's education!0 -
Yes, I don't doubt that the truth hurts. Did you grow up in a housing project? Have you lived in poverty with an alcoholic parent who spent all his money on booze? Of course children are not all beans in a bag. I was not a bean in the bag, and I did pretty well. Realize it or not, you are on the Titanic, and there are only so many lifeboats. YOU CAN'T SAVE EVERYONE. Put the ones you can save in the lifeboats.
I would never waste my time trying to educate someone who did not want to be educated. Period.
Yes i did grow up on a council estate in the low areas of nottingham.there were cars being stolen and set a light outside my house all most everynight growing up. My dad had a gambling habit& left my mum with two kids and thousand in debts so yes i did grow up under privileged. So that points not valid. You say i can't save everyone but we are in the broken world we are in today because of the people like you who just can't be bothered to try. What if the world gave up on anyone who made a mistake? For the record its cheaper to get these kids into school& try& help than it is to pay for the tax payer paying for a place in jail for every troubled young teenager. Who you want to forget.0 -
I taught over 150 teenagers daily for over 11 years. I loved the kids. I loved teaching. I did not love the impossible demands placed upon teachers, nor the lack of support from some parents and the general public- you know the ones who think teachers have it so easy with our “better than bankers’ hours”, holidays, and free summers?
Besides actually teaching, teachers:
-Spend weekends aligning lesson plans to the state's course of study, the school system's curriculum, providing differentiated instructional strategies, forming assessments, providing remedial activities, enrichment activities, relative homework assignments, and analyzing data after grading the previous weeks' assignments to determine if each student has achieved mastery of required objectives so they can pass high-stakes tests.
-Arrive at school an hour before the bell rings to check teacher mailbox, put belongings in classroom, and report to Morning Duty to supervise kids before classes.
-During the brief Homeroom session check for each of the 30 students attendance, dress code, materials, planners, excuses for being absent, announcements, etc.
-Begin switching classes, and in between each class change monitor students in the hall, as well as keeping an eye on students entering the classroom. Repeat 8 times (6 classes + before and after school).
-During planning period attend required data meetings, parent conferences, committee meetings, take care of sponsored extracurricular activities needs, attend required professional development, and on the one lucky day a week that the teacher has a “free” planning period- grade papers.
-After the last class, Afternoon Duty begins and lasts 20-30 minutes as students get to their bus and the car line. -Now it’s time for After School Activities begin, including tutoring that the teacher does for free so struggling students can succeed academically, in addition to the extracurricular activities the teacher sponsors so students have an opportunity to do some things they love (dance, art, sports, etc.). -Leave school with tote bag full of papers that the teacher will spend the evening grading and/or giving feedback so students can see their progress.
Let’s not forget while doing everything listed that teachers are caregivers- bandaging wounds, providing counseling, motivating the unmotivated, and encouraging all to understand and believe that they can do it.
My respect and admiration goes to every single good teacher out there.0 -
Yes, I don't doubt that the truth hurts. Did you grow up in a housing project? Have you lived in poverty with an alcoholic parent who spent all his money on booze? Of course children are not all beans in a bag. I was not a bean in the bag, and I did pretty well. Realize it or not, you are on the Titanic, and there are only so many lifeboats. YOU CAN'T SAVE EVERYONE. Put the ones you can save in the lifeboats.
I would never waste my time trying to educate someone who did not want to be educated. Period.
Yes i did grow up on a council estate in the low areas of nottingham.there were cars being stolen and set a light outside my house all most everynight growing up. My dad had a gambling habit& left my mum with two kids and thousand in debts so yes i did grow up under privileged. So that points not valid. You say i can't save everyone but we are in the broken world we are in today because of the people like you who just can't be bothered to try. What if the world gave up on anyone who made a mistake? For the record its cheaper to get these kids into school& try& help than it is to pay for the tax payer paying for a place in jail for every troubled young teenager. Who you want to forget.
I have a friend in the UK who described the council flats not too far from him. They do not sound pleasant.
However, it is a different country, and the UK is having just as profound monetary crisis as we are, if not worse. Dave Cameron cut some of the expenses recently that the UK can no longer afford, among them free education. The entire Eurozone is reeling after years of Socialism (Thank God you still have the Pound!) and the free spending life of yore is on the way out. I really meant it when I said you were on the Titanic, and there are not enough lifeboats to go around. You can be a Pollyanna about helping everyone, but until you figure out how to pick up the tab, it ain't gonna happen.
Think of things within the new paradigm : you have X amount of money and Y students. To help every student you need 5X of the money. What are you going to do? Please try to be realistic. You may think I am baiting you and the others, but I am not. I am presenting the new reality.0 -
this thread is on fire again! i have to go out of town, but when i come back i'm going to read and catch up on everyone's posts - especially yours, veggie! nothing like two stinkers throwing punches in the cyber realm who both know they are right. (even though i am right on this one)
ciao.0 -
I am a parapro working in a 4th grade classroom of 30 students with at least 10 special education students. The teacher spends as much time answering constant e-mails from parents than she does teaching. The parents expect their kids to get an A on every test even if they miss school, are tardy everyday, and don't pay attention in class. They want a study guide for every test that has the exact questions on the test.....really! I made a choice to NOT become certified, because I could not deal with the state of education anymore. Parents want to be their kids best friends and not be parents. Discipline and consequences are what works. Consistency of expectations is important. Letting your child fail and know that they can learn from their mistakes and life will go on and mom can not always fix things for you will make a healthy child that can function in this tough, life is not always fair world.
There are some imperfect teachers as there are some imperfect accountants, lawyers, doctors etc. As I see it over my 23 years in education......there are MANY screwed up parents doing a disservice to their children. Unfortunately we as educators are NOT allowed to criticize them. Most teachers put in at least 10 hour days if not more and are NOT compensated for the hours or the abuse they take.
Until you walk in someones shoes.......Oh, and by the way, your child is NOT the only student in the class...........0 -
this thread is on fire again! i have to go out of town, but when i come back i'm going to read and catch up on everyone's posts - especially yours, veggie! nothing like two stinkers throwing punches in the cyber realm who both know they are right. (even though i am right on this one)
ciao.
Ciao, chanstriste. Look forward to seeing you again.0 -
Read most of the pages. Some people are just such know-it-alls....must have had good teachers ; )
My kids have had fantastic teachers and some that should not be teaching. But, I have gone to mechanics, doctors, dentists, hairdressers, etc. and have had good and bad experiences. The reason people complain about teachers is because tax dollars pay their salaries and you cannot change your child's teacher if you do not like her/him.
I volunteered to teach one week of vacation bible school at church. Four hours a day for five days. Sixteen 5 year olds. and two teenage assistants. How hard can that be? (Stop laughing you teachers!) I was given a book with ideas for lesson plans (that took me about 4 hours to figure out how to fill all the time), the crafts and games were run by someone else each for half an hour. I only had to "teach" these kids for 3 hours. EASY!!!!! OMG.....have NEVER done that again!!! I was absolutely exhausted! The parents were the worst part. It cost $8 for the WEEK! They used it for babysitting and came 45 mins. to one hour late to pick up their kids. One child took a pair of scissors and cut another child! When that boy's mom came to pick him up I told her what he had done and she chewed my head off saying everyone always blames her kid when something bad happens!
With that experience, I happen to respect every teacher out there. I support all my kids' teachers and always ask them for a list of supplies they need for the classroom. If I don't understand exactly what they are looking for or if I can't find what they need, I send in a gift card for where ever the teacher shops for supplies.
I volunteer in the classrooms and for field trips but will never do it alone again!!
Thank you teachers!!!0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.0
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Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.
Continuously making the wrong decison makes me think that whatever was being tried just isn't working. I am all for giving people a chance, such as I was given, but I had one shot. If I had screwed up, I would be out of college working in a factory. I believe in one chance, maybe two if maturity can be demonstrated. But after that you are beating a dead horse.0 -
Amen this is so true! Teachers have so many different hats to wear, it can be so overwhelming!!0
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Kudos for teachers...hard job...terrible hours...awful organizational chart with multiple reporting lines...but most of all -- you have to talk to parents..UGH!!!
God help you if you actually have to talk to parents! After all, they have nothing to do with a child's education!
come on, veggie - have a sense of humor! they are most likely referring to the parents that insist that their child can do no wrong and have a tendency to bully you during the conversation to give said student a passing grade when you have contacted them on multiple occasions to let them know their dear heart is in danger of failing because they refuse to do anything. ever.
then these parents insists that you are a liar when you present your communication log detailing every phone message, hangup, email and letter you have sent to make them aware of their child's struggles (aka laziness, in most cases), not to mention the progress reports sent out 4 times per quarter, in addition to parent's ability to have internet access to every teacher's gradebook. but once grades have been posted, these parents (and there are many) swarm out of the woodwork to get in your face about how their little darling should have an A++ in your class by default, and you have obviously not done your job adequately, and they are going straight to the principal to tell them what a "*kitten*" you are (i actually had a parent say this to me).
scary, but true.
it's great talking to parents who actually care that their children put in the effort and develop responsibility, but they are few and far between. and when a teacher and parent come together to create an action plan for a student that motivates them or makes something click, or sets up tutoring sessions that they actually show up to and it makes a difference, that is so worthwhile!
but a parent jumping on you because they've known the story for the last 9 weeks, but they only care about it when the grades post and then they belittle you and say things to you that you could never in a million years speak back to them in the same manner, that is not a conference or a meeting. and i can't think of any other professions that people are required to smile and nod through some of these rants. sure, we can hang up the phone, or have them escorted out the door, but if we actually stood up for ourselves, we would be the ones sued. and in my environment, both the very rich and the very poor felt *very* entitled and had a tendency to do this.
perhaps we can add some evening courses on proper parenting to our list of duties! although the only parents that would show up are the ones that are already doing the right thing, so it would kind of be like preaching to the choir...0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.
Continuously making the wrong decison makes me think that whatever was being tried just isn't working. I am all for giving people a chance, such as I was given, but I had one shot. If I had screwed up, I would be out of college working in a factory. I believe in one chance, maybe two if maturity can be demonstrated. But after that you are beating a dead horse.
I'm glad you are not my parent. I made my share of mistakes and if someone had written me off I would probably be on the streets right now. Part of being a kid is making mistakes and learning from them. You don't just grow up knowing everything that's right and wrong.0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.
Continuously making the wrong decison makes me think that whatever was being tried just isn't working. I am all for giving people a chance, such as I was given, but I had one shot. If I had screwed up, I would be out of college working in a factory. I believe in one chance, maybe two if maturity can be demonstrated. But after that you are beating a dead horse.
I'm glad you are not my parent. I made my share of mistakes and if someone had written me off I would probably be on the streets right now. Part of being a kid is making mistakes and learning from them. You don't just grow up knowing everything that's right and wrong.
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.0 -
Kudos for teachers...hard job...terrible hours...awful organizational chart with multiple reporting lines...but most of all -- you have to talk to parents..UGH!!!
God help you if you actually have to talk to parents! After all, they have nothing to do with a child's education!
come on, veggie - have a sense of humor! they are most likely referring to the parents that insist that their child can do no wrong and have a tendency to bully you during the conversation to give said student a passing grade when you have contacted them on multiple occasions to let them know their dear heart is in danger of failing because they refuse to do anything. ever.
then these parents insists that you are a liar when you present your communication log detailing every phone message, hangup, email and letter you have sent to make them aware of their child's struggles (aka laziness, in most cases), not to mention the progress reports sent out 4 times per quarter, in addition to parent's ability to have internet access to every teacher's gradebook. but once grades have been posted, these parents (and there are many) swarm out of the woodwork to get in your face about how their little darling should have an A++ in your class by default, and you have obviously not done your job adequately, and they are going straight to the principal to tell them what a "*kitten*" you are (i actually had a parent say this to me).
scary, but true.
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I have the same problem occassionally with some of my clients, e.g., recently one claimed he had no idea that something he signed was going to be used for a certain purpose. I presented the document to him, and right above his signature was a statement of what this was going to be used for. Creating a perfect paper trail is often the way to handle idiots.
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it's great talking to parents who actually care that their children put in the effort and develop responsibility, but they are few and far between. and when a teacher and parent come together to create an action plan for a student that motivates them or makes something click, or sets up tutoring sessions that they actually show up to and it makes a difference, that is so worthwhile!
but a parent jumping on you because they've known the story for the last 9 weeks, but they only care about it when the grades post and then they belittle you and say things to you that you could never in a million years speak back to them in the same manner, that is not a conference or a meeting. and i can't think of any other professions that people are required to smile and nod through some of these rants. sure, we can hang up the phone, or have them escorted out the door, but if we actually stood up for ourselves, we would be the ones sued. and in my environment, both the very rich and the very poor felt *very* entitled and had a tendency to do this.
perhaps we can add some evening courses on proper parenting to our list of duties! although the only parents that would show up are the ones that are already doing the right thing, so it would kind of be like preaching to the choir...
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Oh, I definitely speak back when I am challenged. Particularly when I have a paper trail showing I am right. Fortunately, in my case anyway, this happens only occasionally.0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.
Continuously making the wrong decison makes me think that whatever was being tried just isn't working. I am all for giving people a chance, such as I was given, but I had one shot. If I had screwed up, I would be out of college working in a factory. I believe in one chance, maybe two if maturity can be demonstrated. But after that you are beating a dead horse.
I'm glad you are not my parent. I made my share of mistakes and if someone had written me off I would probably be on the streets right now. Part of being a kid is making mistakes and learning from them. You don't just grow up knowing everything that's right and wrong.
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
Consequences - yes, but completely writing them off to be a career criminal...I don't think so.0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.0 -
Nashville, on this board I am dissed because I'm a "know-it-all." On another board I post on, I am dissed because I "use big words." In reality, I am not saying anything that, for example, John Taylor Gotto didn't or wouldn't have said. Read his book. He was Teacher of the Year in New York. He was fired for fighting the system and getting results. Same with Jaime Escalante. He was fired under pressure from the teachers union because he had HUGE classes teaching Calculus, so that he got HUNDREDS of poor kids to the point where they could get into UCLA and other great schools. The teacher unions were only concerned with class size, not results. In their mind Escalante was taking jobs from other teachers and that was far more important than actually getting results. I am not making this up. No organization is more evil or backward looking than the teachers' union. They really, really hate success. They only love mediocrity. Therefore, am I a know -it-all? Damn right! I know that whatever the Teacher Unions are for, any sensible person should be against.
Veg - I fight for my students every day and have a bit of a reputation for bucking the system. I've always been this way and will continue to do everything I need to do to reach my students. I'm lucky to have an administrator that says "lock your classroom door and do what you have to do.". Most of my coworkers feel the same way. I will tell anyone who asks including the supervisors what I believe and what needs to happen for my students. The number of students that I've seen turn around is amazing. I just think your attitude about children is not fair to anyone. Yes, I agree there are some who don't want learn. It's that way every where including college. I know plenty of people who went to college to party. We can't write everyone off who comes from a bad environment. I have always said that people deserve a chance to make the right decision, but continuously making the wrong one should not mean you are doomed forever. I've grown up in circumstances that are not so great. My husband is the first in his family to graduate and earn an advanced degree. I'm glad no one wrote us off.
Continuously making the wrong decison makes me think that whatever was being tried just isn't working. I am all for giving people a chance, such as I was given, but I had one shot. If I had screwed up, I would be out of college working in a factory. I believe in one chance, maybe two if maturity can be demonstrated. But after that you are beating a dead horse.
I'm glad you are not my parent. I made my share of mistakes and if someone had written me off I would probably be on the streets right now. Part of being a kid is making mistakes and learning from them. You don't just grow up knowing everything that's right and wrong.
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
Consequences - yes, but completely writing them off to be a career criminal...I don't think so.
The kid in question is going to be tried as an adult, and likely do time, since his history does not appear sterling. That is quite appropriate in my opinion.0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.0 -
I love this article:
"If teachers are mere babysitters, pay them accordingly
1:11 am February 23, 2011, by Maureen Downey
This babysitter piece and the blueberry story are favorites of teachers who often send me copies. This wonderful essay is typically attributed to a New Hampshire paper, but I could not verify the source in a database search of U.S. newspapers going back six years. The essay has been making the rounds for a few years but two readers sent it to me this week, so I thought that was a sign to run it.
So, here it is, author unknown:
Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year. It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit. We can get that for less than minimum wage.
That’s right. Let’s give them $3 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).
Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.
However, remember they only work 180 days a year. I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET’S SEE…That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on. My calculator needs new batteries.)
What about those special education teachers and the ones with master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.
Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here. There sure is.
The average teacher’s salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student– a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)
WHAT A DEAL!
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog"0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.
I doubt that many private sector jobs are dealing with the idea of furloughs and reduction in pay. Salaries for them are just not going up.0 -
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
okay, now i'm getting confused. i get that this kid made his bed, and i think it's fine that his grandmother let him stay in jail, and it's cool that we finally agree on something.
but you just claimed that this is an issue with our society, yet earlier you claimed that revamping *only* the education system would help this. also, you were at some point (i'll go digging for it later) writing about how anyone not interested in learning should just be dropped, and how you would send your 13 year old daughter to outward bound if she didn't study (not have any kind of disciplinary action, just not study or do homework - like me) but in this post, it seems that you are only referring to big time idiot kind of mistakes like the kid and his stolen car. clarification, please.
side note:
(we had another kid at my husband's school last year who stole a car and used the gps in the car to get him to a hotel in charlotte, so the police just waited until he parked to go after him. he tried to escape by going down the hotel laundry shoot, but he's in jail too. my husband's record also reflects this kid's scores on the end of course test)0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.
I doubt that many private sector jobs are dealing with the idea of furloughs and reduction in pay. Salaries for them are just not going up.
fuloughs. ugh. :grumble:
our state budget has gone to *kitten* here in nc, but only state employees are required to pay into it. but not our state government, though. it's unconstitutional for them to give up their pay unless they volunteer to do so. the only one that volunteered to have their pay cut was our governor.
so not cool.0 -
THIS! I educate adults (in fitness) and even they whine and give up! Over half the adult US population is overweight and that directly affects their health in most cases. If people give up on one of the most important things in their life (health), why would you expect their children to have great discipline?i just saw on another post the mention of teachers 'snivelling' for more money when they are not getting results. this kind of thing burns just burns me up.
i can't stand it when people who have never stuck a toe in the education field go on about how teachers are lazy, get paid for nothing in the summer, and are only babysitting anyways, so how hard can it really be?
then you have the people who want to run education like a business, and if you don't get the results, you don't get the pay. if education was a business, teachers could fire and hire the students based on their performance. but no. we don't get that option.
we teach *everyone*, no matter what. even if they only show up to school once a week. even if their parents cuss us out on the phone and tell us that *their* child is *our* problem when they are at school. even if a student consistently refuses to lift a finger because they just do not care. and we are still held accountable for a student's testing scores even if they were expelled from school for 150 days out of 180.
there are always going to be teachers who drop the ball and don't do their part, but the majority of us never give up on those students who have already given up on themselves. we keep hoping that one day they might open their book, write something down and learn something.
boo to people that criticize the general educator populace without ever having taught. if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea. :grumble:
Yes there are some bad teachers, but all in all our direction in this country should be more money for education and less to programs like US Senator program. We'd save 450 billion a year on a program that hasn't done much to improve US government since 1964.
Don't bag on teachers. Children's education and discipline to learn starts at home.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
Before I became a SAHM, I had a 45-60 minutes commute, I would arrive at school rarely past 6:30 AM. Once a week I would leave at 4:10 (school was released at 2:20); other than that, I wouldn't normally leave until 6 or so......and that was after I was married. Before that, I worked much longer hours. I had commitments on weekends and evenings on top of what is required of the regular classroom teacher.
You are right, there are stresses in every job, no matter what it is. The frustration for teachers, however, is the lack of appreciation and respect. Yes, there are bad teachers who show up at the last minute and leave as soon as they are able, even before they are supposed to. There are people like that in every single job.
The frustration for teachers is that they have to teach to the standardized tests because there is so much emphasis placed on those instead of being able to focus on the fundaments that the students need. In a staff meeting once, they handed the teachers a sample MEAP test, maybe 6th or 7th grade level, and it was difficult because of the wording of the test. Non-educators are telling teachers what they need to teach and what they need to accomplish.
The frustration for teachers are that SOME (not all) do not beleive their child could do anything wrong, It is the teacher's fault. Or, SOME children are not used to discipline at home so when they are disciplined at school they don't understand why. When I called home to one parent, she asked me "What am I supposed to do?" SOME students are allowed to run their homes so when they come to school, they feel they can run the classrooms and be disrespectful to the teachers because they are allowed to do so at home.
Do I agree with tenure? No because it protects the teachers that do just hand out worksheets, show movies, etc. There are several other things that I don't agree with; however, I did enjoy my job, I loved working with my students, but I absolutely hated the politics that had to be played. In the 11 years that I taught, things changed so much. Education isn't always about education anymore, which is sad.0 -
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
okay, now i'm getting confused. i get that this kid made his bed, and i think it's fine that his grandmother let him stay in jail, and it's cool that we finally agree on something.
but you just claimed that this is an issue with our society, yet earlier you claimed that revamping *only* the education system would help this.
***********************************************
I never said, "only" the educational system needs to be fixed in this country.
*********************************************
\ also, you were at some point (i'll go digging for it later) writing about how anyone not interested in learning should just be dropped,
********************************************
AGREED!
*******************************************
and how you would send your 13 year old daughter to outward bound if she didn't study (not have any kind of disciplinary action, just not study or do homework - like me)
************************************************
I was not that specific. I said if she screwed up.
*****************************************************
but in this post, it seems that you are only referring to big time idiot kind of mistakes like the kid and his stolen car. clarification, please.
***************************************************
Apples and oranges.
WITHIN the educational system, I would not tolerate those who have no desire to learn. Let them go their own way. There are limited resources and there is no need to waste money where it isn't wanted.
Outside the educational system, those who commit crimes should be punished.
Clear?
*********************************************************************
side note:
(we had another kid at my husband's school last year who stole a car and used the gps in the car to get him to a hotel in charlotte, so the police just waited until he parked to go after him. he tried to escape by going down the hotel laundry shoot, but he's in jail too. my husband's record also reflects this kid's scores on the end of course test)
************************************************************************
Don't you just love bureaucracies?0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
Before I became a SAHM, I had a 45-60 minutes commute, I would arrive at school rarely past 6:30 AM. Once a week I would leave at 4:10 (school was released at 2:20); other than that, I wouldn't normally leave until 6 or so......and that was after I was married. Before that, I worked much longer hours. I had commitments on weekends and evenings on top of what is required of the regular classroom teacher.
You are right, there are stresses in every job, no matter what it is. The frustration for teachers, however, is the lack of appreciation and respect. Yes, there are bad teachers who show up at the last minute and leave as soon as they are able, even before they are supposed to. There are people like that in every single job.
The frustration for teachers is that they have to teach to the standardized tests because there is so much emphasis placed on those instead of being able to focus on the fundaments that the students need. In a staff meeting once, they handed the teachers a sample MEAP test, maybe 6th or 7th grade level, and it was difficult because of the wording of the test. Non-educators are telling teachers what they need to teach and what they need to accomplish.
The frustration for teachers are that SOME (not all) do not beleive their child could do anything wrong, It is the teacher's fault. Or, SOME children are not used to discipline at home so when they are disciplined at school they don't understand why. When I called home to one parent, she asked me "What am I supposed to do?" SOME students are allowed to run their homes so when they come to school, they feel they can run the classrooms and be disrespectful to the teachers because they are allowed to do so at home.
Do I agree with tenure? No because it protects the teachers that do just hand out worksheets, show movies, etc. There are several other things that I don't agree with; however, I did enjoy my job, I loved working with my students, but I absolutely hated the politics that had to be played. In the 11 years that I taught, things changed so much. Education isn't always about education anymore, which is sad.0 -
Have you had her take GATE? If not, then it's NOT the teacher's fault. And that teacher isn't giving up because it's a situation where a gifted child is among those not as gifted.This is a difficult topic for me.
I'm the mother of a gifted child. Her giftedness, among other things, has caused her to struggle emotionally which interferes with her education. I don't condemn teachers. I know that my child is a behavioral nightmare. But at the same time, she is walking around with 135 IQ so if you don't find a way to put something in her head, then you are wasting one of the most brilliant minds you will ever get the opportunity to put your hands on.
What does that say about a teacher that would give up on her???
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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