Any atheists/pagans/wiccans out there? :)

_binary_jester_

I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.

This.

The comparisons of WBC to all other Christians is just as bad as the comparison made by some of Ted Bundy to all atheists.

I admitted it was a cheap shot, but lesser versions are also out there.

Collinsky

One question, for atheists. Do you raise children, and how does this work out for you? One thing I am worried about is having a kid and facing some of the horrible things I have heard other atheist families have faced. People can be VERY cruel.

A lot of that has to do with where you live. No place is immune to the prejudices against atheists (and to a slightly lesser, but still very strong degree, Pagans) but region is a BIG factor. We live in New England, and I have very little concern for my children if they decide they are atheists or Pastafarians or humanists or pantheists or Buddhists or whatever. They may not be in the majority, and will almost certainly run into ignorant people (which would happen if they were Christian, there's no escaping them! LOL) but I honestly think that for the most part they will find acceptance or disinterest. Or cloying condescension in the form of the usual "Oh, I'm so sorry for you, your daily experience of joy and gratitude is false, I'll pray for you." But that's better than the harassment, bullying, or even abuse they might expect somewhere else.

In addition to the area we live in, I've also cultivated an inclusive, secular community for my children -- we're members of a Unitarian Universalist church where the secular humanist vein is strong, and as a homeschooling family we're part of a large, nonreligious homeschool group that includes families with all different views on religion (including atheism) - its' a non issue.

Where I grew up (in the Appalachian South) the UU churches are few and far between and if you find one, it's likely to be more focused on a Deity of some kind, and finding a homechool group that doesn't have a "statement of faith," etc -- being openly atheist in that area would be more likely to bring responses of fear. However, even in more religious areas, while it would be more of an issue, I think it's still possible to raise nonreligious children without having their security unduly threatened. Hopefully, at worst, you'd just have to help your children gracefully and confidently address more well-meaning conversion attempts.

Elizabeth_C34

Okay everyone..

Time for a group hug...

savage22hp

Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?

The question really makes no sense. Your BELIEF that someone will burn forever in hell because they do not share our faith is a belief, not a provable fact.

Splitting hairs but falling or jumping from a bridge might not kill you , there have been miraculous ( if I may use the word ) instances of falling very great distances and surviving . I also have been very careful not to express just exactly what I believe so hell wasn't brought up by me . I guess what it boils down to is : my belief in .................. is so strong that it is as real to me as the acceptance of gravity is to both of us and why is it considered hate instead of love for me to try and intervene in what I see as catastrophic directions that an individual , group , community , nation , world is going ? In th name of ........... , great atrocities have occurred but not according to the teachings of the faith . My Lord left 2 commandments : love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself . Everything else can be fit into those 2 . If I truly love my neighbor as I love myself and I will not jump why is it hate to try and keep you from jumping ?

walkwithme1

Someone's loved one, son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, etc. just died, and they do that.
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They really are sick. I believe in a person's right to protest, but to protest at a funeral is just in bad taste. SEVERELY. Every group has a bad example, most Christians I know are embarrassed by these guys.
[/quote]

I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.
[/quote]





They are a horrible group of people representing Christians. This is not what our bible teaches us. Very poor example of Christian love. I have no desire to be associated with someone that would behave in that manner. Even if I wasn't a Christian I would feel the same way.

Bentley2718

Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely

I don't think I've see a single person in this thread say they don't like Christians, or that they don't like members of any other religious group for that matter. Many of us have actually noted that belief is a matter of personal choice, and that all people are entitled to make that choice. What some of us have said we do not like is feeling like other people's beliefs are being forced on us in some way (particularly via legislation), but I think most people dislike that feeling. Also, some of us don't like certain fringe "Christian" groups that do things we find deeply troubling, like Westboro Baptist Church protesting people's funerals with signs saying terrible things, but again, I think many people, of all faiths (or lack thereof) are troubled by people saying hurtful things at a funeral. As others have pointed out, many of us have people in our lives that we care for and respect, who happen to be people of faith. Others of us may deeply respect public figures, who happen to be people of faith. At no point have I seen Christian bashing, or anything that I think would be offensive to most people if they actually bothered to read the thread.

stef827

Hmm! Well I am a very strong believer in GOD!! And no it was never pushed on me, All of my family has different beliefs. I do not believe that any RELIGION will get you heaven? No Church will get you to heaven? I do believe the Bible! I would never try to convert anyone that is not what it is about. The void you may be feeling could be filled, and I will leave it at that. I think that this is a TERRIBLE topic to be posting on a website for motivation and support for health and weightloss. I can see where topics about religion and politics could really make people leave. There is a reason that each and everyone of us came here. and this site is about FITNESS not RELIGION or POLITICS so why bring it up here. Just thought I would voice my opinion, cause I do care about the people on this site..and I love to help motivate and help people reach their health and fitness goals.
I hope you all find the happiness that you are seeking!

No one forced you, or anyone else to read this thread. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's easy to avoid. I got tired of reading the same 10 threads (e.g. "should I eat back my exercise calories?" or "how can I spot reduce my abs?"), so you know what, I quit clicking on them. Also, obviously at least a few of us WANT to have this conversation, or we wouldn't be here.

And at the same time this is an open forum so this person has every right to post their opi

YassSpartan

:flowerforyou: :drinker:

Bentley2718

What do you believe happens to your body after you die?

It decomposes. This isn't a belief, this is what happens to bodies, unless you preserve them in some way, and even then, it just happens more slowly. We can observe this. Since I don't believe I am anything other than what is in my body, when I die, I believe my consciousness dies with me. A couple of years ago I lost someone very close to me, and it would have been nice to feel like he lived on in some way, but I just don't believe that.

What guides your daily interactions with people in a healthy way?

First and foremost, the need to live with other people, which necessitates cooperation to some degree. Beyond that, a sense of respect and compassion.

If you've ever felt depressed, what filled that void?

I have felt depressed, profoundly so at times. I don't think religion would somehow magically fill that "void" (which, by the way, I don't find to be a particularly good description of my experience of depression). To heal myself, I took better care of myself mentally and physically, faced the things that scared me, changed the way I thought about my life and the things that happened to me, and reached out to my loved ones for help and support.

Collinsky

What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.

There is research that indicates that, while Celtic marriage was between a man and a woman, when they were "in the field" - away from home for battles, raids, what have you, there was not only a lax attitude toward the warriors engaging in homosexual behaviors, there was a complete acceptance of it as a just what happens. And this was, ostensibly, including the hetero warriors.

Marriage always was a civil contract, a legal binding of two families. In most patriarchal societies, a father gave his daughter in marriage to form ties with another family for very, very unromantic reasons: money, land, protection, allies, etc. Men took wives for position, for money, for allies, and to produce heirs. Because production of heirs was almost entirely the point, it quite naturally had to be a hetero union only.

Our culture is completely different now. Fathers don't give their teenage daughters to a stranger to form an alliance. Bearing "legitimate" children is no longer the point of marriage. People get married to who they want, when they want. "Love" is seen as an absolute requirement, and marriage without it is seen as wrong - marriage for economic reasons is viewed by many as downright immoral. It's pointless to try to maintain a model of marriage that no longer reflects our understanding of the role it plays in our society.

Elizabeth_C34

Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?

The question really makes no sense. Your BELIEF that someone will burn forever in hell because they do not share our faith is a belief, not a provable fact.

Splitting hairs but falling or jumping from a bridge might not kill you , there have been miraculous ( if I may use the word ) instances of falling very great distances and surviving .

This really is not splitting hairs at all. It's the difference between a 99% probability of death (lower or higher depending on the specifics of the bridge, landing site, etc.) and something you have zero proof of beside your own belief with no hope of objective provability. Just because a very small minority of bridge-jumpers survive does not mean the laws of probability failed. In fact, quite the opposite.

I also have been very careful not to express just exactly what I believe so hell wasn't brought up by me . I guess what it boils down to is : my belief in .................. is so strong that it is as real to me as the acceptance of gravity is to both of us

You have the notions of opinion and fact very confused and muddied. You said it yourself that your belief in ___ is very real TO YOU. Your notion of God or whatever you believe is not provable in a logical fashion with emprical unbiased evidence. There is no way around that. Gravity is provable and demonstrable.

You are entitled to your beliefs, but trying to compare saving someone by converting them to your faith to saving someone who is leaping off a bridge is a terrible logical conundrum that you can't rationalize because you are comparing an intangible being with a tangible force.

I'm not going to argue this point with you because it is pointless to do so.

I will say that pushing your beliefs on someone who does not wish to receive them is rude and arrogant on your part as it says to that person that you know better than they do what is best for them. I would not advise this path if you hope to save anyone.

lostsanity137

One question, for atheists. Do you raise children, and how does this work out for you? One thing I am worried about is having a kid and facing some of the horrible things I have heard other atheist families have faced. People can be VERY cruel.

A lot of that has to do with where you live. No place is immune to the prejudices against atheists (and to a slightly lesser, but still very strong degree, Pagans) but region is a BIG factor. We live in New England, and I have very little concern for my children if they decide they are atheists or Pastafarians or humanists or pantheists or Buddhists or whatever. They may not be in the majority, and will almost certainly run into ignorant people (which would happen if they were Christian, there's no escaping them! LOL) but I honestly think that for the most part they will find acceptance or disinterest. Or cloying condescension in the form of the usual "Oh, I'm so sorry for you, your daily experience of joy and gratitude is false, I'll pray for you." But that's better than the harassment, bullying, or even abuse they might expect somewhere else.

In addition to the area we live in, I've also cultivated an inclusive, secular community for my children -- we're members of a Unitarian Universalist church where the secular humanist vein is strong, and as a homeschooling family we're part of a large, nonreligious homeschool group that includes families with all different views on religion (including atheism) - its' a non issue.

Where I grew up (in the Appalachian South) the UU churches are few and far between and if you find one, it's likely to be more focused on a Deity of some kind, and finding a homechool group that doesn't have a "statement of faith," etc -- being openly atheist in that area would be more likely to bring responses of fear. However, even in more religious areas, while it would be more of an issue, I think it's still possible to raise nonreligious children without having their security unduly threatened. Hopefully, at worst, you'd just have to help your children gracefully and confidently address more well-meaning conversion attempts.

I live in the south. But we do have a Unitarian church nearby, that I have visited. It hosts the local Free Thought meetings. Being an atheist is a non-issue for me personally, but I know that bringing a child into the world (one day) is a big responsibility and they will likely be raised to believe by my example. I am a firm believer in letting them explore when they are older, but I don't want them to choose religion out of fear of persecution. Your homeschooling circle sounds pretty magnificent to have such diversity and acceptance. I have never heard of anything like that here. When I decide to have kids, you can bet that I will research until my eyeballs fall out. I am already going to have to be careful..my boyfriend's mom is very Christian and a wonderfully loving woman, but I am not sure how she will feel about her grandchild being raised...not. She doesn't know about my religious preferences yet...

stef827

I hope you aren'tmad I am chiming in but I am a strong believer in the God of the bible. I (and most of the mature believers I know) really love all people and are not just talking the talk. I believe many people have never heard a person explain the gospel to them in a reasonable way, without judging them. I share my faith with atheists and all other world views and many after hearing God's word explained, want to receive He sus into their heart and life. Again I hope my two cents adds and doesn't take away from the thoughts that have been shared.

I really hope you wait until they ASK to hear about your faith. If not, that's pretty rude.

I don't believe sharing your beliefs is rude at all weather its asked for or not. They can object if they would like and sharing it comes from a loving caring place

BrandNewMia

I consider myself a secular humanist :happy: I was raised by a non-religious mother and a Christian (Lutheran) father. My siblings are all devout Christians and prefer not to speak of my beliefs anymore.

My husband was raised Catholic, but is agnostic.

djthom

I find this topic very interesting as I have been struggling to figure out what I am & what I believe. I was raised very strick Roman Catholic even went to Catholic school, but never understood or believed in alot of their rules. When I got divorced I was thrown out of the Catholic church. I got remarried in the Episcipol church because I found them to be closer to what I believed and wanted to raise my children in. My family had a hard time with it at first but they adjusted. Our church closed & we've been having a hard time finding a new one. We tried a Methodist which I found interesting but the kids found strange. My 18 y.o. anounced that she was athiest and not joining us anywhere. I do believe there is a God. But mostly I believe in angels or loved ones that stay with us to guide us. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. but I do believe in reincarnation. I believe we keep coming back in one form or another until we get it right and maybe that is what the angels or spirit guides are, those that finally got it right so they don't have to keep being reicarnated instead they help try to guide the rest of us. I don't know if any of this makes sence or what religion it makes me.

AmberXenon

Wiccan, and have been since age 10. 27 now. I don't like to throw my beliefs around at other people...I know what makes me happy and will not force that on anyone else.

I have one of the coexist stickers on the back of my car. Pisses my friend off something fierce.

lpatterson327

my family is catholic, ive disagreed with western religion for as long as i can remember, even ran away from sunday school at 7 and walked home, last year when my family found out about my religion...or lack there of i was written out of my grandmothers will and told i wouldnt be put back in until i believed in god, i tolerate other religions but dont force your opinions on me. unfortunatly i get alot of forced opinions being in the line of work that i am.

now its getting to the point with my son that my parents and grandparents are wondering how i will raise my son, i told them that he doesnt have to have a religion to be a good person, its my job to teach him right from wrong and when hes older if he decides he wants to have a religion then its his choice, im not going to force it on him...that'd make me a hypocrite.

Elizabeth_C34

I hope you aren'tmad I am chiming in but I am a strong believer in the God of the bible. I (and most of the mature believers I know) really love all people and are not just talking the talk. I believe many people have never heard a person explain the gospel to them in a reasonable way, without judging them. I share my faith with atheists and all other world views and many after hearing God's word explained, want to receive He sus into their heart and life. Again I hope my two cents adds and doesn't take away from the thoughts that have been shared.

I really hope you wait until they ASK to hear about your faith. If not, that's pretty rude.

I don't believe sharing your beliefs is rude at all weather its asked for or not. They can object if they would like and sharing it comes from a loving caring place

If an atheist came up to you and, out of genuine care for your wellbeing, tried to convince you that your life is being wasted because you spend too much time believing in a god that doesn't exist, would you feel the same way?

Just for clarification, this atheist tried to change your faith without you asking him/her for his/her opinion on the matter.

stef827

Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely

Gosh nice save at the end. This is chit chat (see random).

Thanks for telling me I have been doing it wrong this whole time.

I mean that nicely.
[/quote


When did I say you were doing anything wrong? Praying for someone is not a bad thing, I pray for my son my husband my friends, family and yes even strangers. Its out of love, something wrong with that?

savage22hp

Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?

The question really makes no sense. Your BELIEF that someone will burn forever in hell because they do not share our faith is a belief, not a provable fact.

Splitting hairs but falling or jumping from a bridge might not kill you , there have been miraculous ( if I may use the word ) instances of falling very great distances and surviving .

This really is not splitting hairs at all. It's the difference between a 99% probability of death (lower or higher depending on the specifics of the bridge, landing site, etc.) and something you have zero proof of beside your own belief with no hope of objective provability. Just because a very small minority of bridge-jumpers survive does not mean the laws of probability failed. In fact, quite the opposite.

I also have been very careful not to express just exactly what I believe so hell wasn't brought up by me . I guess what it boils down to is : my belief in .................. is so strong that it is as real to me as the acceptance of gravity is to both of us

You have the notions of opinion and fact very confused and muddied. You said it yourself that your belief in ___ is very real TO YOU. Your notion of God or whatever you believe is not provable in a logical fashion with emprical unbiased evidence. There is no way around that. Gravity is provable and demonstrable.

You are entitled to your beliefs, but trying to compare saving someone by converting them to your faith to saving someone who is leaping off a bridge is a terrible logical conundrum that you can't rationalize because you are comparing an intangible force with a tangible one.

It is only intangible to you . There are many things that are real yet can't be easily grasped with our limited understanding . We are constantly expanding what is known about the world around us . We still struggle to explain light without attributing to it properties of both particle and wave theories , a terrible conundrum of logic . The physical world is much the same as it has been for centuries and yet our understanding is vastly changed. No one knows how the universe came to be but there are beliefs and theories but ultimately it came from nothing . Science cannot explain how something came from nothing , Supernatural if you will , because there isn't anything that makes it possible in the natural world .