4 whole eggs?
Replies
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He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is not required to store fat, ASP can do it (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's hypothesis cannot. Why would I choose to believe something that doesn't even seem possible to explain my own eating behaviors just because some scientists say its true? There are a number of scientists that also support Taubes.0 -
For some people 4 whole eggs a day would be too much cholesterol, but you might want to replace 2 whole eggs with 3 egg whites.0
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It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Still haven't made up my mind about this guy. He is quick to acknowledge that low carb diets work well for some obese people
Who claimed otherwise? .He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
And this relates to the causes of insulin resistance how?0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is required to store fat (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's theory cannot.
His CHO theory of obesity hinges on the "facts" that only cho causes an insulin response and without that response fat cannot be stored. both of those are incorrect
And do you see your fallacy in believing something is true just because it works for you?0 -
HUH. This tread evolved in a whole different direction from where it started.
Just to weigh in on the insulin resistance thingy.
I don't think insulin causes insulin resistance at all. I also don't think carbs/sugar cause insulin resistance at all. I place the 'cause' squarely on the the shoulders of obesity. Excess fat storage causes insulin resistance.
If I have time to day, I'll dig up the studies that make me think that way. But mean while, what you need to know is that too much fat storage can cause chronic inflammation. You can even get necrosis of fat tissue as the adiposites, stuffed to the breaking point with lipids, began to die. Even when they don't die, they start releasing cytokines and such... and while we don't understand the exact mechanism, it's highly likely that these cytokines and the chronic inflammation are major contributing factors to insulin resistance and ultimately diabetes.
But... like a lot of people on this thread... yah... I don't believe it's the carbs at all.
Why in the world would I sometimes recommend low-carb for someone insulin resistant/diabetic than? Because once the system is broken, your body doesn't have a good way to regulate blood glucose any more and high blood glucose is a problem... low carb manually keeps that blood glucose low so you're less dependent on insulin signaling pathways to manage your blood sugar.
Low carb is NOT a "fix" for insulin resistance. It's a compensatory mechanism, a work-around for a broken system. It's like duct tape and baling wire.
Ron's link makes me think that I should re-think my recommendation of low-carb for insulin resistance/diabetes though. Hmm....0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is required to store fat (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's theory cannot.
His CHO theory of obesity hinges on the "facts" that only cho causes an insulin response and without that response fat cannot be stored. both of those are incorrect
And do you see your fallacy in believing something is true just because it works for you?
It doesn't hinge on those two things at all. Unless you can demonstrate that protein is consumed in excess of carbohydrates by the majority of the population, I'd say your point is moot. Again your point about fat storage is also moot because the larger component of his theory is the inhibited fat mobilization by insulin.
And if you want to believe the only reason I believe Taubes' theory is because it works for me, that's your choice. But I have yet to see compelling evidence that I can trust to the contrary.0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is not required to store fat, ASP can do it (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's hypothesis cannot. Why would I choose to believe something that doesn't even seem possible to explain my own eating behaviors just because some scientists say its true? There are a number of scientists that also support Taubes.
Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
Information is king, and Taubes is the master of biased confirmation and his information is the proof why his papers are not backed up by his peers as reference materal, sure some Dr's will go along with his carb hypothesis goes, but go to countries where carbs are king and the population is not overweight......... they won't have a clue about nutrition in general or who Taubes is. or care. The USA is ground zero for snake oil salesman selling their wares.0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.
So if I take YOUR word for it, its valid, but if I disagree with you, its confirmation bias?0 -
*bump*I think its ok, I love making scrabbled eggs. I mix 2 or 3 eggs with 1/4 cup chunky salsa and scramble. Then lots of Franks red hot sauce soooooo good0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.
So if I take YOUR word for it, its valid, but if I disagree with you, its confirmation bias?
No. It's confirmation bias because you automatically dismiss anything the refutes your pet theory.0 -
My grandpa used to eat several eggs per day until he had 2 heart attacks and the doctors told him that it's going to kill his heart (and him along with it).
So it depends on your cholesterol levels I think. A diet like that can be pretty hard on the blood vessels etc. Check with your doctor.0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.
So if I take YOUR word for it, its valid, but if I disagree with you, its confirmation bias?
No. It's confirmation bias because you automatically dismiss anything the refutes your pet theory.
So what is the right theory?0 -
It's giving you a ton of cholesterol every day. Why not do 1 or 2 eggs and the rest egg whites? I actually really like them, and depending on the brand you buy, are just as good as regular scrambled eggs. My cholesterol is high, so i would never do 4 eggs per day. Maybe ask your doc?
Me too. My strict advise is ask your doctor. I personally do not eat the yokes either...and I always add onion powder - cuz it adds such a good flavor to them. Good luck.0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.
So if I take YOUR word for it, its valid, but if I disagree with you, its confirmation bias?
No. It's confirmation bias because you automatically dismiss anything the refutes your pet theory.
So what is the right theory?
[/quote
a theory is not right or wrong....it is merely an Idea that has not been proven or disproven.0 -
Secondly most people may not be aware, but cholesterol is one of the main building blocks of testosterone, not taking in enough dietary cholesterol may inhibit your full potential production, and I'm sure no man wants that to happen.
This is unlikely to be true. Your body can synthesize cholesterol. If you have fat in your diet, even if you don't eat cholesterol at all, you will have plenty of cholesterol to synthesize testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and all other cholesterol-based hormones.
Just throwing that out there
It's not that important to the discussion... 0 -
a theory is not right or wrong....it is merely an Idea that has not been proven or disproven.
A hypothesis is an idea that has not been proven or disproved. Theories usually have some solid evidence backing them up... they are called 'theory' and not 'fact' because... well... it's pretty hard to prove something 100%.
Take home message: There is usually one or two competing theories that are more "right" than all the rest.
The carbs cause insulin resistance hypothesis is... not solidly supported. It's a pretty archaic hypothesis, to be honest... a has-been... come and gone in the world of science.
The insulin causes insulin resistance hypothesis is... er... I don't know... in my opinion, it's not that well supported either. You kinda get into this chicken or egg thing with insulin and insulin resistant. Did you become insulin resistant because your insulin levels were high? Or did your insulin levels shoot through the roof because you are insulin resistant and your body is trying to ram-rod that damned glucose into the cells where it's supposed to be? :grumble:
Anyhow... carry on.0 -
a theory is not right or wrong....it is merely an Idea that has not been proven or disproven.
A hypothesis is an idea that has not been proven or disproved. Theories usually have some solid evidence backing them up... they are called 'theory' and not 'fact' because... well... it's pretty hard to prove something 100%.
Take home message: There is usually one or two competing theories that are more "right" than all the rest.
The carbs cause insulin resistance hypothesis is... not solidly supported. It's a pretty archaic hypothesis, to be honest... a has-been... come and gone in the world of science.
The insulin causes insulin resistance hypothesis is... er... I don't know... in my opinion, it's not that well supported either. You kinda get into this chicken or egg thing with insulin and insulin resistant. Did you become insulin resistant because your insulin levels were high? Or did your insulin levels shoot through the roof because you are insulin resistant and your body is trying to ram-rod that damned glucose into the cells where it's supposed to be? :grumble:
Anyhow... carry on.
The lipid hypothesis was the general consensus for decades even though it is deeply flawed. How does what you're saying prove or disprove anything about the insulin hypothesis?0 -
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included. (We are talking about 1800+ people that have noted improvement on insulin sensitivity by adhering to a controlled carb lifestyle void of starches, grains and other high carb foods)
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.0 -
Funny how the twinkie guy became more insulin sensitive eating all them damn carbs......oh, yeah, he was losing weight when he was eating those damn carbs. it's sooooo confusing isn't it. j/kIt would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included.
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.0 -
Funny how the twinkie guy became more insulin sensitive eating all them damn carbs......oh, yeah, he was losing weight when he was eating those damn carbs. it's sooooo confusing isn't it. j/kIt would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included.
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.
He was losing weight because he created a caloric deficit. Anybody can temporarily create a caloric deficit.0 -
Funny how the twinkie guy became more insulin sensitive eating all them damn carbs......oh, yeah, he was losing weight when he was eating those damn carbs. it's sooooo confusing isn't it. j/kIt would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included.
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.
He was losing weight because he created a caloric deficit. Anybody can temporarily create a caloric deficit.
Are you agreeing a person can eat a boat load of carbs and become insulin sensitive? Probably not if you believe the carb hypothesis ? Just thought i'd ask, considering your line of reasoning.0 -
not taking in enough dietary cholesterol may inhibit your full potential production, and I'm sure no man wants that to happen.
um, there are some men out there that might not want kids!0 -
Funny how the twinkie guy became more insulin sensitive eating all them damn carbs......oh, yeah, he was losing weight when he was eating those damn carbs. it's sooooo confusing isn't it. j/kIt would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included.
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.
According to JAMA research............Insulin Resistance Syndrome, also known as Metabolic Syndrome, greatly increases the risk for cardiovascular disease, the leading cause of death today. Insulin resistance is characterized by high blood pressure, elevated blood sugar levels, abnormal blood lipid levels, along with abdominal obesity according to a JAMA report on December 1, 2002. Research shows that men with metabolic syndrome were 3 to 4 times more likely to die of coronary heart disease than healthy men. Insulin resistance happens over time as people lose their sensitivity to insulin, which is largely due to the addition of sugar and refined carbohydrates in the typical American diet.0 -
Funny how this whole conversation started from the question "should I eat 4 eggs a day":laugh:0
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First of all Insulin resistance isn't also known as metabolic syndrome as your source implies. It's a condition found with people that have metabolic syndrome which is causes mostly by overconsumption (obesity). Also you never answered my question, but created a strawman arguement, which is what normally happens when head is firmly planted in the sand.
Funny how the twinkie guy became more insulin sensitive eating all them damn carbs......oh, yeah, he was losing weight when he was eating those damn carbs. it's sooooo confusing isn't it. j/kIt would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included.
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.
According to JAMA research............Insulin Resistance Syndrome, also known as Metabolic Syndrome, greatly increases the risk for cardiovascular disease, the leading cause of death today. Insulin resistance is characterized by high blood pressure, elevated blood sugar levels, abnormal blood lipid levels, along with abdominal obesity according to a JAMA report on December 1, 2002. Research shows that men with metabolic syndrome were 3 to 4 times more likely to die of coronary heart disease than healthy men. Insulin resistance happens over time as people lose their sensitivity to insulin, which is largely due to the addition of sugar and refined carbohydrates in the typical American diet.0 -
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The lipid hypothesis was the general consensus for decades even though it is deeply flawed. How does what you're saying prove or disprove anything about the insulin hypothesis?
It doesn't. I wasn't trying to prove or disprove the insulin hypothesis. I was instead pointing out what is to me an obvious flaw in the hypothesis that has not been adequately addressed. Insulin and insulin resistance are linked. One can claim that out-of-control insulin levels cause insulin resistance. Alternatively, one can claim that insulin resistance causes out-of-control insulin levels. It is difficult to separate the two. Experimentally, you can only measure the outcome, the endpoint, the final product: onset of diabetes. You can demonstrate correlation in humans. You can draw inferences from that correlation. You can re-create conditions in animal models and find more correlations and occasionally demonstrate cause and effect. But that's it.
So... what I was offering to you was another, logical, rational way to think about the information you've been provided. I suppose I'm hoping you might sit back, take a good look at the data, and realize that Dr. What's-his-name is offering only one of many possibly true hypotheses. There are other valid interpretations of the data. And there is other data that you're simply ignoring.0 -
Go tell that to a whole community on Facebook that have experienced otherwise. Me included. (We are talking about 1800+ people that have noted improvement on insulin sensitivity by adhering to a controlled carb lifestyle void of starches, grains and other high carb foods)
A high carb diet is going to do nothing to improve insulin sensitivity. It will merely cause a person that has insulin resistance to become a full blown diabetic.
This is not proof. This is not science. This is faith. This is testimony. This is hope. It is not science.
For centuries, WAY more than 1800+ people believed that bleedings could remove the excess humors from your blood. That wasn't science either.
I am not saying its bad to control carbs. Actually, I try carb control to some extent (I am by no means low carb... but I'm eating a lot less carbs than I used to). All I'm doing is pointing out: You just can't use testimonials as science.0 -
Eggs are perfectly fine foods, real eggs, not egg beaters kinda stuff. Faulty research came out and gave eggs a bad rap and there is no harm in eating them, even on a daily base since most cholesterol is produced inside our bodies. Also, yolks contain healthy vitamins and the good omega 3 fatty acids that prevent heart disease. If you can look for pasture fed or free range chicken eggs, if you can't find that, organic.0
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