4 whole eggs?
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Is it common for people to overeat protein despite its level of satiety?
I love how you keep carefully trying to construct cases to support your claims, and then try to apply them to the whole.
Nobody is going to eat 100% protein (or any macro for that matter). So can protein lead to a caloric excess? Sure it can.
If someone has already consumed the number of calories needed for maintenance, then add a chicken breast on top of that then the addition of protein has led to caloric excess, get it?Does protein cause the same insulin response in an insulin resistant individual as carbohydrates?
Why do you think insulin resistance is specific to a single macronutrient?
Just wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?0 -
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
Is it common for people to overeat protein despite its level of satiety?
I love how you keep carefully trying to construct cases to support your claims, and then try to apply them to the whole.
Nobody is going to eat 100% protein (or any macro for that matter). So can protein lead to a caloric excess? Sure it can.
If someone has already consumed the number of calories needed for maintenance, then add a chicken breast on top of that then the addition of protein has led to caloric excess, get it?Does protein cause the same insulin response in an insulin resistant individual as carbohydrates?
Why do you think insulin resistance is specific to a single macronutrient?
Just wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?0 -
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
Is it common for people to overeat protein despite its level of satiety?
I love how you keep carefully trying to construct cases to support your claims, and then try to apply them to the whole.
Nobody is going to eat 100% protein (or any macro for that matter). So can protein lead to a caloric excess? Sure it can.
If someone has already consumed the number of calories needed for maintenance, then add a chicken breast on top of that then the addition of protein has led to caloric excess, get it?Does protein cause the same insulin response in an insulin resistant individual as carbohydrates?
Why do you think insulin resistance is specific to a single macronutrient?
Just wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?
How can you be so sure?0 -
ust wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?
The article claimed that sugar was evil because it is insulinogenic. By that rationale, anything that is insulinogenic is therefore evil.
Get it yet?
Furthermore, he wasn't restricting his claim to the insulin resistant, so why do you keep trying to divert the conversation in that direction?0 -
ust wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?
The article claimed that sugar was evil because it is insulinogenic. By that rationale, anything that is insulinogenic is therefore evil.
Get it yet?
Furthermore, he wasn't restricting his claim to the insulin resistant, so why do you keep trying to divert the conversation in that direction?
Ok so the article is inaccurate. Fine have your way.
I don't want people to think just because one article is inaccurate, that it rules out excess sugar and/or insulin as the culprit.0 -
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance0 -
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Still haven't made up my mind about this guy. He is quick to acknowledge that low carb diets work well for some obese people.
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?0 -
Most high cholesterol that is genetic comes from eating too little cholesterol not too much.
That's not true. There are several genetic dispositions that lead to high cholesterol, familial hypercholesterolemia being one of them.0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?0 -
There's a long list that contributes to Insulin resistance and the biggest contributors are the overconsumption of food, any food, and leading a sedentary lifestyle. If you take a look at the demographic afflicted most often with IS you'll see that it belongs to a cluster of conditions called MetS (metabolic disorder) that is most often associated with obesity. Most of the world eats lots of carbs and don't have IS. If carbs (glucose) was the cause, then the assoication of IS wouldn't discriminate and everyone that consums carbs would have IS, but they don't. Move and don't overconsume food and that includes carbs will make everyone insulin sensitive.....everyone.
It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
Is it common for people to overeat protein despite its level of satiety?
I love how you keep carefully trying to construct cases to support your claims, and then try to apply them to the whole.
Nobody is going to eat 100% protein (or any macro for that matter). So can protein lead to a caloric excess? Sure it can.
If someone has already consumed the number of calories needed for maintenance, then add a chicken breast on top of that then the addition of protein has led to caloric excess, get it?Does protein cause the same insulin response in an insulin resistant individual as carbohydrates?
Why do you think insulin resistance is specific to a single macronutrient?
Just wondering since insulin resistance is the over-production of insulin because of the body's inability to effectively store glucose, why is the fact that protein is insulinogenic all that relevant?
How can you be so sure?0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is not required to store fat, ASP can do it (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's hypothesis cannot. Why would I choose to believe something that doesn't even seem possible to explain my own eating behaviors just because some scientists say its true? There are a number of scientists that also support Taubes.0 -
For some people 4 whole eggs a day would be too much cholesterol, but you might want to replace 2 whole eggs with 3 egg whites.0
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It would be wonderful if we could pin the tail on insulin as the cause of Insulin Resistance, but alas it isn't.
How can you be so sure?
Perhaps because there is evidence to suggest that high-carb diets improve insulin sensitivity while very low carb diets impair it.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=insulin+resistance
Still haven't made up my mind about this guy. He is quick to acknowledge that low carb diets work well for some obese people
Who claimed otherwise? .He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
And this relates to the causes of insulin resistance how?0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is required to store fat (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's theory cannot.
His CHO theory of obesity hinges on the "facts" that only cho causes an insulin response and without that response fat cannot be stored. both of those are incorrect
And do you see your fallacy in believing something is true just because it works for you?0 -
HUH. This tread evolved in a whole different direction from where it started.
Just to weigh in on the insulin resistance thingy.
I don't think insulin causes insulin resistance at all. I also don't think carbs/sugar cause insulin resistance at all. I place the 'cause' squarely on the the shoulders of obesity. Excess fat storage causes insulin resistance.
If I have time to day, I'll dig up the studies that make me think that way. But mean while, what you need to know is that too much fat storage can cause chronic inflammation. You can even get necrosis of fat tissue as the adiposites, stuffed to the breaking point with lipids, began to die. Even when they don't die, they start releasing cytokines and such... and while we don't understand the exact mechanism, it's highly likely that these cytokines and the chronic inflammation are major contributing factors to insulin resistance and ultimately diabetes.
But... like a lot of people on this thread... yah... I don't believe it's the carbs at all.
Why in the world would I sometimes recommend low-carb for someone insulin resistant/diabetic than? Because once the system is broken, your body doesn't have a good way to regulate blood glucose any more and high blood glucose is a problem... low carb manually keeps that blood glucose low so you're less dependent on insulin signaling pathways to manage your blood sugar.
Low carb is NOT a "fix" for insulin resistance. It's a compensatory mechanism, a work-around for a broken system. It's like duct tape and baling wire.
Ron's link makes me think that I should re-think my recommendation of low-carb for insulin resistance/diabetes though. Hmm....0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is required to store fat (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's theory cannot.
His CHO theory of obesity hinges on the "facts" that only cho causes an insulin response and without that response fat cannot be stored. both of those are incorrect
And do you see your fallacy in believing something is true just because it works for you?
It doesn't hinge on those two things at all. Unless you can demonstrate that protein is consumed in excess of carbohydrates by the majority of the population, I'd say your point is moot. Again your point about fat storage is also moot because the larger component of his theory is the inhibited fat mobilization by insulin.
And if you want to believe the only reason I believe Taubes' theory is because it works for me, that's your choice. But I have yet to see compelling evidence that I can trust to the contrary.0 -
He has his food reward / palatability hypothesis that I don't buy. Apparently for many of us out there, bacon, eggs, cheese, and other very salty low-carb foods are not rewarding, but coincidentally for us only high-carb foods are?
So why don't you buy that hypothesis, yet buy Taubes' despite the mountain of evidence against Taubes?
I haven't seen this mountain of evidence against Taubes. I've seen evidence that dispute some of the components of his hypothesis, but they seem insignificant to me. Examples of these insignificant points are:
protein is insulinogenic (so what? Where's the glucose?)
insulin is not required to store fat, ASP can do it (nobody eats an insulin-free diet)
Taubes used a flawed study in 1980 indicating that obese people eat less than lean people (so what, doesn't change the reason for overeating)
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences. Guyenet's hypothesis cannot. Why would I choose to believe something that doesn't even seem possible to explain my own eating behaviors just because some scientists say its true? There are a number of scientists that also support Taubes.
Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
Information is king, and Taubes is the master of biased confirmation and his information is the proof why his papers are not backed up by his peers as reference materal, sure some Dr's will go along with his carb hypothesis goes, but go to countries where carbs are king and the population is not overweight......... they won't have a clue about nutrition in general or who Taubes is. or care. The USA is ground zero for snake oil salesman selling their wares.0 -
And most importantly, Taubes' hypothesis can reconcile my own experiences
Today's word is "Confirmation Bias". Can you say "Confirmation Bias"?
I bet you can.
So if I take YOUR word for it, its valid, but if I disagree with you, its confirmation bias?0 -
*bump*I think its ok, I love making scrabbled eggs. I mix 2 or 3 eggs with 1/4 cup chunky salsa and scramble. Then lots of Franks red hot sauce soooooo good0
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