Very low calorie diets and metabolic damage

Helloitsdan

I also forgot to mention sock eye salmon along with the spirulina supplement. I just read that the vitamin b12 in spirulina isn't absorbable therefore sock eye salmon is a must adding the essential omegas the body needs for burning fat and protecting the heart and nervous system.

I found that the bentonite clay is fabulous for pulling out the toxins and candida which is cause for carb cravings. It can interfere with medications so be careful with that. Imagine, the real hunger curb is getting rid of candida overgrowth!!! The spirulina taken throughout the day keeps the blood sugar level up.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about......

You can detox by simply drinking water and slowly replacing processed food with more natural food.

funnygirl0940

You haven't a clue what you are talking about......

You can detox by simply drinking water and slowly replacing processed food with more natural food.

I don't know who you are nor why you are answering or commenting directly at me when my posts are aimed at the op stroutman81, who is knowledgeable and experienced. your general statement is incorrect. try not to mislead people.
You should check out medicinal clay for yourself, you'd be amazed at the results

Bounce2

Firstly ^^^^^^:laugh:

Secondly, after some of the posts I have been reading on the forums lately >>> BUMP

Helloitsdan

Oh good this is still an active thread and I really appreciate the op!!! I have a few questions for the op...read the first page and jumped to the last page.

(Bentonite Clay, Chlorophyll, and Spirulina with a temporary VLCD) From what you know and have experienced with this type of "fasting" on a short term, maybe 40 days max, will using spirulina(3-4 TBS) a day help keep one from losing their hair? I just like that spirulina is all natural as a whole food supplement. If it's better to send a pm, I'm more than happy to converse via pm. Thank you.

Again Terrible idea. Its not a personal "Attack". You are on an open forum where everyones opinion counts. If you ask a question like the one above, it opens you up to answers from everyone.
So looking at your question to the OP:

"(Bentonite Clay, Chlorophyll, and Spirulina with a temporary VLCD) From what you know and have experienced with this type of "fasting" on a short term, maybe 40 days max, will using spirulina(3-4 TBS) a day help keep one from losing their hair? I just like that spirulina is all natural as a whole food supplement."

In MY opinion, and i'm not a doctor, it's a terrible idea. If you are asking for your own personal needs as an adjunct to lose unwanted body fat, VLCD is the #1 way to add 3% more body fat within 1 years time with less lean muscle.

Now on the subject of spirulina, clay etc.....
If you live in a highly polluted area where you have several epigenetic altering factors, sure!
Look into my friend Dr Roland Thomas product at www.bioage.com.
Also check out University of Maryland's study on spiralina and its liver protective abilities.
I use the stuff for my cats food as well as my own supplementation.
Is it a magic pill?
No.
Is the clay magical?
No.
Figure out why you have colon issues in the first place and correct using VSL#3.
It's an actual food that will propagate the right bacteria so you won't have these toxins.
Could I make $1000s off you with claims from supplements?
Probably.

If you are looking to lose unwanted body fat, don't turn to pills and clay and all that crap!
Just eat a healthy balanced diet.
Drop grains.
Sleep more.
Get out into the sun and balance out Vitamin D.
Lift weights!

Do a consultation with Pam Killeen!
http://www.google.com/url?
www.pamkilleen.com
She will give you all the best advice for a small fee!
Or take my advice, for free, and forget all the above crap about VLCD!

OH! I got a PM from a long time trainee yesterday!

"Hi Dan

Thanks for all the supplement info. It is helping. I am dong the melatonin cycle starting at sundown and wow…. sleeping SO much better.

I also wanted to thank you for turning me on to the Pam Killeen. Her ancestral eating has really changed my life and I am getting sick less and less.

So… since you give such amazing advice…. "

Your best ticket to the fountain of youth and longevity is eating close to TDEE, sleeping 7-9hours a night, optimizing Vit D, and lifting weights.

PS: I've helped 1000s on this site lose fat and get strong and beautiful.

But what do I know....i'm just some judgmental jerk on MFP.....

Blue801

Bump for later

cwsreddy

VLCDs should ONLY be undergone under the DIRECT SUPERVISION OF A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL

the. end.

ugh.

Yanicka1

Bump.

funnygirl0940

In MY opinion, and i'm not a doctor

But what do I know....i'm just some judgmental jerk on MFP.....

enough said ;0)

funnygirl0940

VLCDs should ONLY be undergone under the DIRECT SUPERVISION OF A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL

the. end.

ugh.

totally AGREE!!!!

caroldavison332

I don’t understand some things you said, partially because you are using terms I am unfamiliar with. Please respond to my questions printed in ALL CAPS. Sorry, I’m not shouting, I just don’t know of any other way to distinguish them. Especially because I am not hungry and eat 1200 calories only because MFP tells me that I am going into starvation mode. I have no interest in starving myself but it seems silly to eat when I am not hungry. I weight 235 and want to weigh 150, and walk 2.6 miles and 14 staircases daily. Thank you for your consideration.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF ITS THE VLCD OR ITS EFFECT THAT LEADS TO THE SLOWDOWN? ISN'T IT THE SAME THING?

“Leptin lets out bodies know that it's fed. So if we have less fat, we have less Leptin.” WHY WOULD THIS BE? “If we have less Leptin, we have less of a "fed" signal to the brain. If we have less of a fed signal, the body responds accordingly with the slowdown in RMR (and some other adaptations).” IT SEEMS TO ME IT SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

But the logical question you should be asking is, "Won't smaller or normal deficits WHATS A DEFICIT? also cause a loss in fat? And won't that loss in fat lead to the same sort of negative adaptations?" And the answer is yes. It's just that the VLCD will cause these adaptations to happen faster... but you'll also lose fat faster. Follow me?
In the thread that was deleted last night, I spoke of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment ran by Ancel Keys, which took already relatively lean men and locked them down in the lab where they were given 50% of their calorie needs for half of a year. They also had supervised exercise ever day if memory serves me correct. We know that lean people will react faster (in terms of metabolic slowdown) to big energy deficits than fat people will. Which makes sense.... fat bodies don't "think" they're starving as quickly since they have all of this excess energy in storage, right? IT SEEMS TO ME IT WOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND. DON”T FAT PEOPLE LOOSE A LOT OF WEIGHT QUICKLY IN THE BEGINNING OF DIETS? PLEASE EXPLAIN.

But even with the test subjects in this experiment being lean to start, after the 6 month period, they only experienced a slowdown in RMR of 15% or so. I mean “total energy expenditure dropped by 40% or so, but the remaining 25% (above the 15%)” PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS was due to the loss in weight (tissue costs something to maintain and a bigger body is more expensive to move around). Everyone knows that as weight is lost, calorie needs go down.
“The "starvation mode" totaled 15%” WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? after half a year of low calorie dieting. And that's the primary point... life requires energy expenditure. And metabolism can be thought of as our total energy expenditure in this case. Even if there is “negative adaptation to low calorie dieting,” WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? metabolism can only drop so far... there's a minimum threshold that's required to keep your heart beating, to fuel respiration, power the brain, transport nutrients, digest food, etc, etc.

I also posted a few links to more current research.... one paper compared a 25% deficit WHAT IS A DEFICT? to a 890 calorie intake. The low calorie intake lost more weight than the 25% group. Yes, they had a metabolic slowdown... but so did the 25% group, which corresponds to what I said above about big and small deficits.

There's a lot more that I could say on the topic. For example, NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) WHAT IS NEAT? is turning out to play a substantial role in the reduction in total daily energy expenditure experienced on prolonged diets... big or small deficits. WHAT DOES THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE MEAN? Which only stands to solidify the importance of exercise while dieting. NEAT drops unconsciously... so we counteract that by doing more activity consciously via structured exercise. But we won't dive into that end of things as this is already far too long.

zozo24

Very good example about the experiments done so far that show how metabolic rate can only slow down so much. The actual key point to remember is that being overweight and carrying excess fat is much more unhealthy than having to worry about short term low calorie diet. Have people forgotten how useful it can be to fast/detox once in a while

shartran

bump for later!
Thanks

CallMeCupcakeDammit

boop

strawberrypopsicles

In the thread that was deleted last night, I spoke of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment ran by Ancel Keys, which took already relatively lean men and locked them down in the lab where they were given 50% of their calorie needs for half of a year. They also had supervised exercise ever day if memory serves me correct.

Dude, that's terrible. How was that experiment legal? Anyway good info. Eating disorders are serious chronic illnesses and i'm sick of people who cry anorexia at any irregular eating habit or unrealistic goal.

strawberrypopsicles

VLCDs should ONLY be undergone under the DIRECT SUPERVISION OF A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL

the. end.

ugh.

OR do whatever you want because it's your health and don't shame people for their life choices

stroutman81

In the thread that was deleted last night, I spoke of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment ran by Ancel Keys, which took already relatively lean men and locked them down in the lab where they were given 50% of their calorie needs for half of a year. They also had supervised exercise ever day if memory serves me correct.

Dude, that's terrible. How was that experiment legal? Anyway good info. Eating disorders are serious chronic illnesses and i'm sick of people who cry anorexia at any irregular eating habit or unrealistic goal.

You could never get away with it now, I don't think. But back then, regs were looser. And the men were volunteers.

SparklesPlenty

Thank you for this thread. Very informative.

Pmsylvester

Bump

therearefourlights1701

Since my body was preparing for a famine and gave it one. Just to kick start my diet and drop some critical mass because my weight was reaching a dangerous high. I changed my career from active outdoor work to sedentary and my eating continued as I was used to. This VLCD I used is effective because it's an extreme, and I was prescribed an appetite suppressant, Phentermine or I would have fell victim to cravings and binge eating without the help of modern medicine. Once I lost a critical mass my diet transitioned to a more realistic calorie intake goal of 1800, and progress is still being made. Without the appetite suppressant I don't know how anyone could possibly do a VLCD, especially when most morbidly obese individuals have a distorted relationship with food.

I reached my all-time weight high 355lbs 5ft 11in at 27 years old and decided that was it. So here is how I went about losing a critical mass of weight.

I visited my doctor who prescribed Phentermine to treat my obesity. This drug eliminated my food cravings, the fatigue and headaches associated with dieting. It makes me more likely to make the right choices now and hopefully I will be able to continue making good choices after I am finished with the medication.

Hunger is reduced and nearly eliminated with Phentermine, as an FDA approved appetite suppressant only available by prescription from a medical doctor. Every meal I eat begins with a glass of water and soluble plant fiber to fill my stomach without calories to reduce my caloric intake. I take psyllium because its properties reduce cholesterol, aid in a healthy digestive movement, reduce hunger, and I eat substantially less taking psyllium tablets before each meal with plenty of water.

I decided to take full advantage of my time on this drug by doing something that would have been impossible for me without it. I restricted my diet to eight hundred calories a day. Something I could not do normally due to fatigue, cravings, headaches and I love to eat. The Phentermine is a tool to kick start your weight loss and assist you, but you must do the heavy lifting.

Since I decided to reduce calories drastically I take a chew-able multivitamin, Vi-active multivitamin for calcium, GNC energy caffeine pills to counteract my metabolic slowing from under eating, and a probiotic to support the intestinal health while I am not ingesting a regular diet. Did I mention I talked to my doctor? So should you!

I increased my activity by purchasing a pedal cycle machine that keeps my legs moving when I am working at my desk, at work. I easily burn more calories during my daily routine without devoting time to the gym. The Desk Cycle has no weight limit and it’s very well built. It’s an easy way to burn an extra 500 calories per day without sweating, by just peddling slowly to burn a few more calories without much thought or effort.

Cucumber and Lemon is a delicious snack without the salt of pickles.

La Croix & Canada Dry FLAVORED sparkling water has nothing but water and carbonation for the most part. I am so happy I made the change from diet pop to flavored sparkling water. I sip on it all day to stay hydrated and hunger free.

Typical day on the extreme diet, Every Bite Counts!

Breakfast: 7 Triscut crackers & single Laughing Cow Cheese. 200 calories
Lunch: prepared frozen Michlina’s meal. 300 calories
Dinner: single portion of Jenny O’ Turkey sausage, brat, breast or other lean protein. 200 calories
Snack: Sliced cucumber with lemon or Quaker CHEW bar. 100 calories

stephylynn190

Thank you so much for the information! I was sitting at about 1600 calories until I broke my foot and now I can't do cardio for the time being. I've dropped my calories to 1200-1300 calories per day just because I am not as hungry now that I'm not as active. I eat relatively clean so it's often an effort to reach 1300 calories per day. I kept worrying that I would send myself into this feared "starvation mode". It's a relief to know that this doesn't seem to be as much of a risk as it's made out to be by so many people.