Very low calorie diets and metabolic damage

zozo24

Very good example about the experiments done so far that show how metabolic rate can only slow down so much. The actual key point to remember is that being overweight and carrying excess fat is much more unhealthy than having to worry about short term low calorie diet. Have people forgotten how useful it can be to fast/detox once in a while

shartran

bump for later!
Thanks

CallMeCupcakeDammit

boop

strawberrypopsicles

In the thread that was deleted last night, I spoke of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment ran by Ancel Keys, which took already relatively lean men and locked them down in the lab where they were given 50% of their calorie needs for half of a year. They also had supervised exercise ever day if memory serves me correct.

Dude, that's terrible. How was that experiment legal? Anyway good info. Eating disorders are serious chronic illnesses and i'm sick of people who cry anorexia at any irregular eating habit or unrealistic goal.

strawberrypopsicles

VLCDs should ONLY be undergone under the DIRECT SUPERVISION OF A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL

the. end.

ugh.

OR do whatever you want because it's your health and don't shame people for their life choices

stroutman81

In the thread that was deleted last night, I spoke of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment ran by Ancel Keys, which took already relatively lean men and locked them down in the lab where they were given 50% of their calorie needs for half of a year. They also had supervised exercise ever day if memory serves me correct.

Dude, that's terrible. How was that experiment legal? Anyway good info. Eating disorders are serious chronic illnesses and i'm sick of people who cry anorexia at any irregular eating habit or unrealistic goal.

You could never get away with it now, I don't think. But back then, regs were looser. And the men were volunteers.

SparklesPlenty

Thank you for this thread. Very informative.

Pmsylvester

Bump

therearefourlights1701

Since my body was preparing for a famine and gave it one. Just to kick start my diet and drop some critical mass because my weight was reaching a dangerous high. I changed my career from active outdoor work to sedentary and my eating continued as I was used to. This VLCD I used is effective because it's an extreme, and I was prescribed an appetite suppressant, Phentermine or I would have fell victim to cravings and binge eating without the help of modern medicine. Once I lost a critical mass my diet transitioned to a more realistic calorie intake goal of 1800, and progress is still being made. Without the appetite suppressant I don't know how anyone could possibly do a VLCD, especially when most morbidly obese individuals have a distorted relationship with food.

I reached my all-time weight high 355lbs 5ft 11in at 27 years old and decided that was it. So here is how I went about losing a critical mass of weight.

I visited my doctor who prescribed Phentermine to treat my obesity. This drug eliminated my food cravings, the fatigue and headaches associated with dieting. It makes me more likely to make the right choices now and hopefully I will be able to continue making good choices after I am finished with the medication.

Hunger is reduced and nearly eliminated with Phentermine, as an FDA approved appetite suppressant only available by prescription from a medical doctor. Every meal I eat begins with a glass of water and soluble plant fiber to fill my stomach without calories to reduce my caloric intake. I take psyllium because its properties reduce cholesterol, aid in a healthy digestive movement, reduce hunger, and I eat substantially less taking psyllium tablets before each meal with plenty of water.

I decided to take full advantage of my time on this drug by doing something that would have been impossible for me without it. I restricted my diet to eight hundred calories a day. Something I could not do normally due to fatigue, cravings, headaches and I love to eat. The Phentermine is a tool to kick start your weight loss and assist you, but you must do the heavy lifting.

Since I decided to reduce calories drastically I take a chew-able multivitamin, Vi-active multivitamin for calcium, GNC energy caffeine pills to counteract my metabolic slowing from under eating, and a probiotic to support the intestinal health while I am not ingesting a regular diet. Did I mention I talked to my doctor? So should you!

I increased my activity by purchasing a pedal cycle machine that keeps my legs moving when I am working at my desk, at work. I easily burn more calories during my daily routine without devoting time to the gym. The Desk Cycle has no weight limit and it’s very well built. It’s an easy way to burn an extra 500 calories per day without sweating, by just peddling slowly to burn a few more calories without much thought or effort.

Cucumber and Lemon is a delicious snack without the salt of pickles.

La Croix & Canada Dry FLAVORED sparkling water has nothing but water and carbonation for the most part. I am so happy I made the change from diet pop to flavored sparkling water. I sip on it all day to stay hydrated and hunger free.

Typical day on the extreme diet, Every Bite Counts!

Breakfast: 7 Triscut crackers & single Laughing Cow Cheese. 200 calories
Lunch: prepared frozen Michlina’s meal. 300 calories
Dinner: single portion of Jenny O’ Turkey sausage, brat, breast or other lean protein. 200 calories
Snack: Sliced cucumber with lemon or Quaker CHEW bar. 100 calories

stephylynn190

Thank you so much for the information! I was sitting at about 1600 calories until I broke my foot and now I can't do cardio for the time being. I've dropped my calories to 1200-1300 calories per day just because I am not as hungry now that I'm not as active. I eat relatively clean so it's often an effort to reach 1300 calories per day. I kept worrying that I would send myself into this feared "starvation mode". It's a relief to know that this doesn't seem to be as much of a risk as it's made out to be by so many people.

deansdad101

ThereAreFour;

Since pretty much EVERY "myth", "wives tale", and closed minded opinion of what "everybody knows", has already been demonstrated in this thread, I'll assume that the arrival of the pitchforks in response to your "phentermine" comments - is imminent.

...., and I was prescribed an appetite suppressant, Phentermine or I would have fell victim to cravings and binge eating without the help of modern medicine. (snipped for brevity)
Without the appetite suppressant I don't know how anyone could possibly do a VLCD, especially when most morbidly obese individuals have a distorted relationship with food.

"But, but, but, you KNOW that phentermine was half of Phen-Fen and that was PULLED by the FDA before it KILLED more people, long ago".

Yup, it was (both a component of PhenFen, and PhenFen WAS "pulled".
BUT, it was also demonstrated in clinical studies that the "FEN" portion was what caused the problems NOT the Phen.

Lack of knowledge, combined with an insatiable desire to post dogma, is the result.

This drug eliminated my food cravings, the fatigue and headaches associated with dieting. It makes me more likely to make the right choices now and hopefully I will be able to continue making good choices after I am finished with the medication.

Hunger is reduced and nearly eliminated with Phentermine, as an FDA approved appetite suppressant only available by prescription from a medical doctor.

All that you say is true, but so too is it virtually guaranteed that it bring out the legions of "I'd never put any chemical in my body...", "...all you need is willpower...", or "I did it without drugs, why can't you", holier than thou's.

Ignore the lunacy of someone currently taking medication for their hypertension or diabetes joining in the "chemicals?, NEVER" chants.
Ignore the "...willpower" true believers who have a problem explaining why a third of the US population (and more in other countries) are clinically "obese" if all it took was "willpower" (are they ALL, willpower "challenged"?).
And ignore the fact that, were it not for "chemicals", and many of the other advances that Science has introduced to medicine, the astounding increases in longevity and quality of life we have witnessed over the last decades would likely never have occurred.

I decided to take full advantage of my time on this drug by doing something that would have been impossible for me without it. I restricted my diet to eight hundred calories a day. Something I could not do normally due to fatigue, cravings, headaches and I love to eat. The Phentermine is a tool to kick start your weight loss and assist you, but you must do the heavy lifting.

My prior comments notwithstanding, and despite recognizing the successes you have achieved, I still cannot "endorse" or let your comments (regarding Phen) stand (at least) un-discussed or unchallenged and perceived of as the "way to go" for those who have made the decision to include a prescription medication as part of their weight loss program.

BUT, NOT for the reasons the pitchforks will proclaim as gospel, and especially not for the reasons (?) those spouting "we don't talk about that here" closed minded nonsense.

Rather because, Phentermine (like almost ALL other meds) does have "side-effects" of its own, it's a relatively "old" drug (generic), it is an appetite "suppressant" but it is also a "stimulant" and carries with it many of the negative, long term, effects on the heart that are common to all stimulants.

"Old" doesn't necessarily mean "bad" (trust me, I know). In fact, some would cite the fact that having been around for so many years is a benefit in that we have a long history of experience with it. BUT, in the interim, Science (and documented research) has produced a number of "new" pharmaceuticals and at least in the case of one of these, a completely new "discovery" based on specific brain receptors responsible for the body's innate "hunger" feelings and cravings.

As a result of the "Fen-Phen" fiasco (and completely understandable reaction of Docs and the general public alike) there were NO new "diet drugs" approved by the FDA/DEA for a period of (I think) 13 years. But, during that 13 hiatus, research continued and medical science "marched on" in its quest for the "magic bullet" - a safe and effective "diet pill" that society has craved since who knows when.

One can debate whether their quest truly was in the interest of scientific knowledge for its own sake, the "greater good", or the corporate profits bound to be generated by discovering and marketing the "magic pill". In the end, it's likely all three were involved but it's the results that actually "matter" to those of us interested as "end users".

Approximately two years ago, two new drugs gained FDA approval, coincidentally within weeks of each other.

But that's about the only thing the two have in common.
One, "qysemia" was simply a new "combo" of two existing (and then generic) drugs (as was Phen-Fen). Since both components had been previously approved by the FDA (and since the "combo" was already being prescribed "off label" by a number of docs) the clinical studies were limited to the specifics of the combo itself and DEA "labeling" concerns were pretty much known.
The one "major" difference between the new combo and those being used "off label" involved a "time release" quality incorporated in the drug design.

The second drug "lorcaserin/Belviq" is an entirely new discovery with its modus based on previously unknown characteristics of the human brain receptors involved in the "hunger" responses they communicate. The clinical studies required over 8 years, multiple phases with study participants in the thousands and studies designed to include specific "target" groups including diabetics. FDA required redesign and repeating of some of the studies when initial results were rejected due to questions raised that could not be totally answered due to the prior study protocols and design. Upon final FDA approval a total of over 8000 participants and more than 8 years of clinical study data had been incorporated and all of that subsequent to the initial "lab" time involved in actually "discovering" the newly identified knowledge on which it is all based.

I know it probably sounds like I'm a "shill" for Belviq and to some extent I guess I am although I prefer the term "advocate".
I am, however, in no way connected to either the company that discovered and now produces the drug, nor the company that markets it. I have been "watching" the progress fairly closely out of intellectual curiosity since before the initial application for FDA approval was submitted and have, at various times held a (small) position in the stock (which, overall, resulted in a net "loss").
I am also personally acquainted with a few individuals that were trial participants, and a number of current (and past) "end users" - ALL (with a couple of exceptions) who have had positive results and positive experiences with the medication.

I tell you all of this, not in anticipation (let alone "hope") that either of us are likely to even mute the tone of the pitchfork contingent, or in an attempt to "convince" anyone that medication is a required component of a successful "diet" plan - it most certainly IS NOT.

It is; however, my "hope" that for those considering it as a "possible" alternative to what has not worked for them in the past (for whatever reasons) will AT LEAST research the available options, consult with their physicians, and determine for THEMSELVES

quatermore

bump

TheIgnorantTroll

Well I haven't read the whole tread but enough to know that I just might get nailed to a tree and flogged because I was on a vlcd 600calorie diet.

The first 10 days were quite difficult. Bad head ache and serious mood swings but after that it was easy enough. Social occasions can be auckward because well you can't eat and if you drink alcohol even in limited amounts you can pass out easily. I found that one out the hard way.

Does it work, yes. Is it a long term solution, no. Will you put the weight back on, likely.

In my case I put some back. First is the glycogen, but then if you go low carb the same thing happens when you give it up. That can add up to quite a bit. You haven't ate regular food in a while so it's like a child that's been set free in a candy store.

Lucily, in my case. Once I got to a manageable weight I dumped all my old cloths. I was determined to never go back the way I came. I did go back but only as far as my new trousers would let me. Me and those pants had many a struggle but in the end the pants won.

I decided the way forward was a healthy lifestyle rather than starvation and I'm healthier and happier for it.

Would I be where I am now without going vlcd? We will never know but in my heart I don't think so. Not that I would advocate vlcd, after all it did cost me a gawl bladder. Or maybe the years of abusing my body did that, again we may never know for sure.

What interests me is the talk of vlcd killing your motabolism. Just wondering if mine is dead? If it is how do I know. I mean no one has sent any flowers or anything. Maybe I was away that day and no one told me. Maybe it hasn't happened yet. I'll let you know if I find that one out.

So now I guess I'm a social lepper? I have one friend on my list at the moment but stay tuned. I'll let you know if I get dumped.

As my fav comedian used to say "May you'er god go with you"

Firehawk734

I haven't read the entire thread but it is my opinion through my expereince that even if you lower your calories moderately, over time, and adjust them down over time slowly, becuase you have to to get through plateaus, that your body will slow the metabolism down to slow the fat loss process (it thinks it is starving or withering away and it is trying to protect life).

It seems to me though, that you can do the reverse and raise your metabolism right back up. Obviously if you've been cutting for years (like me lol) and have gone from being able to eat 5500 calories a day to maintain at 342lbs and now have to eat 2500 a day to lose 1-2lbs a week, I don't want to start eating 5500 calories right now. I'm a different weight, I'm older, I'm in much better shape and fit than I was at 342 lbs, I'm more efficient at burning calories, etc. So, I would need to slowly raise calories over time to readjust my metabolism.

If your body adjusts it down, then it should be able to adjust it up. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would try to eat next to nothing for days and days. it's just not necessary and it's not sustainable.

Food really is king.

TheIgnorantTroll

For the life of me I don't know why anyone would try to eat next to nothing for days and days. it's just not necessary and it's not sustainable.

Equally why would anyone consume double or triple there bodies requirement. Is that necessary or sustainable?

CallMeCupcakeDammit

Bump!

MacMadame

I used to eat a little bit all the time and I found that I was never really full. And then over time my choices got bad. A few chocolate-covered almonds here, a mini Snickers there. Hey, it was just a bite - what harm could it do? Except it was just a bite of crap food every 30-60 minutes! And then the cravings start as they always do when my diet gets too high in sugar.

I've been trying to do the opposite: eat some really nice meals of a good size that make me feel FULL rather than just knock the edge off my hunger. I find, when I do that, I'm not hungry again for hours instead of wanting to snack again 30 minutes later.

Also, I am always reading about how whole grains keep you full longer. I think they do keep you full longer than processed grains. But not longer than proteins and fat. All carbs break down into simple sugars in the end even whole grains. I avoid them, myself.

Eaving1

dianadabutterfly wrote: »

Thank you for the information. When I started using myfitnesspal I discovered that I was getting too few calories every day and had no idea. I was getting between 700-900 and optimally should get 1200 to expect any weight loss. I wasn't intentionally eating too little but had stayed very busy and neglected to eat much during the day. The first week it was difficult to get up to 1200 but that first week I lost 5 lbs and the only change I had made was to take in more calories.

That... doesn't make any sense? If your maintenance was 700-900 calories, how would eating more make you lose weight rather than gain it?

Jenny_Jen75

CrossFit definitely needs to be modified if doing a VLCD. An intense workout with a very low energy index can tax the adrenal glands and cause them to go into failure. No Bueno. You definitely need more calories.