Do you think people are lacking 'class'?

Hoppymom

This may not be popular but I believe much can be attributed to the "special snowflake" attitude that has become the norm in child upbringing over the last 20-25 years.
The idea of participation trophies and not keeping score in games so that everyone is a winner.
I get trying to establish self esteem but I think that has to come from self respect not an artificial atmosphere that is not the reality of life where there are winners and losers,successes and failures.

The whole thing has led IMO to people that can`t understand or cope with the fact that sometimes things go wrong or not as we wish them to.
Now the expectation is that whatever has happened must be made right by someone instantly because that is what is owed.
When that doesn`t happen the reaction is anger,impatience and a need to lash out.

And he hits a homerun!!!!! I like this answer.

Mom0fTwo

I also believe that kids nowadays are spoiled, I put my self through school, paid off all my school debt, bought my first car on my own, bought my first cell phone at 18 when i was legally able to do so and paid the bills myself, moved from Vancouver to Ontario using my own money and paid off 11k debt in 1 year, made my first adult purchase of an equinox on my own credit and half way to paying it off in one year, now saving for a house all by the age of 27, and if i didn't have the right parents growing up teaching me how to behave and live properly I don't think I would have done all this and had the great feeling of accomplishment i have now, oh i forgot to mention doing all this while having 2 kids lol

FaugHorn

And don't even get me started on what the feminist movement has done to the way women are now viewed and treated.

^^^^
THIS

You keep using these words...I do not think they mean what you think they mean...

splashangel

People have been whining about how awful the younger generation is since at least Roman times.

In many ways, society today is a lot better than the 50s that people remember through the gauzy golden haze of nostalgia. But for anybody but middle- and upper-class straight white men, things have definitely gotten better in the last half a century.

I recently read "The Better Angels of Our Nature," which examines in detail how much less violent and "civilized" our society is today than at any time in history: less war, less interpersonal violence, less violence against children and animals. If we have to lose some snob's idea of "class" to make a fairer and less violent society, so be it.

"Better Angel's of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined," by Steven Pinker.

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0670022950/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329496361&sr=1-1

From a review:

The final trend Pinker discusses is the “rights revolution,” the revulsion against violence inflicted on ethnic minorities, women, children, homosexuals and animals that has developed over the past half-century. Pinker is not, of course, arguing that these movements have achieved their goals, but he reminds us how far we have come in a relatively short time from the days when lynchings were commonplace in the South; domestic violence was tolerated to such a degree that a 1950s ad could show a husband with his wife over his knees, spanking her for failing to buy the right brand of coffee. . . .

"http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?pagewanted=all"

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago. Not only the mouth on alot (not all) of them but because they would just as soon fight you as look at you. It is getting worse. Do you think everyone on here has fallen for a myth. Do you think I can not remember growing up? That my grandmother is just senile because she can not believe how rude children have become? ( Again,not all) I respect this guy Pinker's harvard degree and all. I think it's awsome TED interviewed him. But, I answered this topic from what I know.Personally. She ask," Do YOU think people are lacking class" I think , for the most part, yes.

smantha32

I couldnt help but sit here and chuckle. My family went out last evening and I had 3diff people come up to me and state that my 3yr old boy was way to polite. My reply was what do u want him to do run around the returant and say naughty words instead of sitting here quietly using his manners. They walked away. WTF??? We r raising him to use manners, be respectful, polite, and do whats right and I get ?ed about it. Yes my son is over polite but I would rather have that then some of the kids out there.
Alot plays into how we r as a socity now adays. There is our up bringing, media, friends, ect. In a whole it can b resolved if more people cared.

You are awesome. I can't even count the times someone's bratty out of control child ruined my meal in a public place. I wish there were more parents like you!

Cberg9

People have been whining about how awful the younger generation is since at least Roman times.

In many ways, society today is a lot better than the 50s that people remember through the gauzy golden haze of nostalgia. But for anybody but middle- and upper-class straight white men, things have definitely gotten better in the last half a century.

I recently read "The Better Angels of Our Nature," which examines in detail how much less violent and "civilized" our society is today than at any time in history: less war, less interpersonal violence, less violence against children and animals. If we have to lose some snob's idea of "class" to make a fairer and less violent society, so be it.

"Better Angel's of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined," by Steven Pinker.

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0670022950/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329496361&sr=1-1

From a review:

The final trend Pinker discusses is the “rights revolution,” the revulsion against violence inflicted on ethnic minorities, women, children, homosexuals and animals that has developed over the past half-century. Pinker is not, of course, arguing that these movements have achieved their goals, but he reminds us how far we have come in a relatively short time from the days when lynchings were commonplace in the South; domestic violence was tolerated to such a degree that a 1950s ad could show a husband with his wife over his knees, spanking her for failing to buy the right brand of coffee. . . .

"http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?pagewanted=all"

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago. Not only the mouth on alot (not all) of them but because they would just as soon fight you as look at you. It is getting worse. Do you think everyone on here has fallen for a myth. Do you think I can not remember growing up? That my grandmother is just senile because she can not believe how rude children have become? ( Again,not all) I respect this guy Pinker's harvard degree and all. I think it's awsome TED interviewed him. But, I answered this topic from what I know.Personally. She ask," Do YOU think people are lacking class" I think , for the most part, yes.

Now those 12-14 year olds would just as much kill you as look at you. They don't understand the consequenses of their actions and no one at home to hold them accountable. It's disgusting and very scary

treetop57

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago.

15-20 year-olds have always been more violent than 45-50 year olds. The question is whether today's 15-20 year-olds are more violent than the 15-20 year-olds of thirty years ago. All the statistics say no. Violent crime is down quite a bit from thirty years ago, and most of that is due to a decline in youth violence.

Do I see all this talk about how awful today's children are as whining? Yep, pretty much. And people have been doing it for time immemorial.

Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers. --Socrates

treetop57

Of course, people have every right to whine. I know you youngins can't help it: you were brought up by permissive parents who treated you each as a special unique snowflake, so you never learned to respect your elders.

But if you must whine, GET OFF MY LAWN!

splashangel

Let's see.... look under the obnoxious posters name..... click on the triangle..... yea now, that's more like it.

ebbtime

I work in a middle school. That alone should say enough! Being around those children, I have come to believe, it's the parents whose actions, or lack of, are teaching their children to act the same way. I have 5 children myself....3 are in middle school, 2 in elementary. I also believe it goes back a generation or 2. Somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball & it has escalated from there. I'm not bashing anyone or pointing fingers but respect has a huge part in this.

^^This^^ It all goes back to the narcissistic parenting style that really caught on with the GenXers and snowballed from there. You can tell the problem isn't caused by the teachers when you watch parents interact (or not) with their children in any public place. I fly a lot, and most parents who bring their kids on a plane could care less if there child is screaming, kicking the seats in front of them, throwing food around, and God forbid you say something about it. They have the 'right' to ruin the flight for all of the other passengers, because it's all about "Me Me Me". "My rights are important, you don't have any". You see the same thing in stores - it's ok for the kids to run around screaming, knocking into people, damaging the store merchandise, etc... and the parents completely tune them out. But they're the loudest out there on the front lines screaming about how you better not infringe on their rights to do whatever they want, whenever they want, even if it infringes on other people's rights. They don't have respect for other people (questionable as to whether they have respect for themselves), and they teach their kids the same thing.

Civility and class are really based on having some consideration for others, and thinking of someone besides yourself. Unfortunately, it only seems to be getting worse, and I can't imagine what it would take to turn it around.

I've had my children in stores and on a plane & care about how they act in public. On the plane, I had things for them to do for the entire ride. In stores, they just know better! It all comes down to parenting or lack of. I agree with you....it's not teachers' faults at all. It all begins in the home. So sad.

mikey1976

It's because these days children are all taught in school that they're entitled to get what they want. They're not allowed to fail, they're not allowed to excel, they aren't taught manners, and they aren't punished when they're obnoxious or disrespectful to others.

this is so right. i stood up to my mom once and my dad put me out of the house. he said if i didn't like the rules to leave. that was the last time i ever did that again. i had to respect other or i new what i had comming when i got home. i respect every one until they screw up the trust issues. i'm not saying spank and beat the kids. i'm simply saying ground them take all the toys away tv. computer, phone, as a kid in the 1980s we where told to go play outside with friends or neighbor hood kids. that was a much safer time at least i feel this way. people seem so surprised when use manners and open the door not just ladies but for everyone. i'll go out of my way to help people to. thats just who i am by nature

maidentl

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago.

15-20 year-olds have always been more violent than 45-50 year olds. The question is whether today's 15-20 year-olds are more violent than the 15-20 year-olds of thirty years ago. All the statistics say no. Violent crime is down quite a bit from thirty years ago, and most of that is due to a decline in youth violence.

Do I see all this talk about how awful today's children are as whining? Yep, pretty much. And people have been doing it for time immemorial.

Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers. --Socrates

Quit upsetting people with your pesky facts!

shanahan_09

The original question was not about violence or general standard of living, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I'm also failry certain that the OP was not using the word "class" in a socio-economic context, i.e. upper, middle, lower, etc.. She was asking why being rude to each other seems to be acceptable in today's society (the words "hostile" and "angry" being used to describe those who flip people off while sitting in traffic or cursing in front of little kids at hockey games). So "class," in that sense, refers to a person's standard of behavior with regard to how he or she treats other people, not to that person's standing within society.

And here's where it blows my mind that anyone thinks "people haven't changed." Things that used to be considered completely unacceptable at all but the absolute lowest levels of society (like men cursing in front of women and kids or people wearing pajamas to the grocery store) are now commonplace at all levels of society. People HAVE changed. Nobody has any respect for anyone anymore. And as much as people rationalize their behavior under a banner of "Live, and let live," it's all a load of garbage. When a dad can't take his son or daughter to a baseball game without having to request that some inconsiderate moron behind him watch his language, it's gone way beyond minding your own business.

Civilized society requires that you take other people into consideration when you are anywhere but alone in your own home. There is nothing "civilized" about going out and mixing with other people with the attitude that you can do absolutely whatever you want and that everyone else should just leave you alone. That is the OPPOSITE of civilization. See Kant's Categorial Imperative.

Thank you for saying this. I was not pertaining to class in a socio-economic context at all. Was refering to class as in manners, civility, integrity, and character.

I do agree that it has to start with the children. There are too many lazy parents who won't put in the time to teach/nurture their kids so one day they will be adults who have those important attributes I mentioned above. But with that said, as adults we are responsible for ourselves, and if an adult has nothing but hostility towards others and is consistantly in a self-entitled mind-- unfortunately the cycle will continue.

Buddhasmiracle

The original question was not about violence or general standard of living, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I'm also failry certain that the OP was not using the word "class" in a socio-economic context, i.e. upper, middle, lower, etc.. She was asking why being rude to each other seems to be acceptable in today's society (the words "hostile" and "angry" being used to describe those who flip people off while sitting in traffic or cursing in front of little kids at hockey games). So "class," in that sense, refers to a person's standard of behavior with regard to how he or she treats other people, not to that person's standing within society.

And here's where it blows my mind that anyone thinks "people haven't changed." Things that used to be considered completely unacceptable at all but the absolute lowest levels of society (like men cursing in front of women and kids or people wearing pajamas to the grocery store) are now commonplace at all levels of society. People HAVE changed. Nobody has any respect for anyone anymore. And as much as people rationalize their behavior under a banner of "Live, and let live," it's all a load of garbage. When a dad can't take his son or daughter to a baseball game without having to request that some inconsiderate moron behind him watch his language, it's gone way beyond minding your own business.

Civilized society requires that you take other people into consideration when you are anywhere but alone in your own home. There is nothing "civilized" about going out and mixing with other people with the attitude that you can do absolutely whatever you want and that everyone else should just leave you alone. That is the OPPOSITE of civilization. See Kant's Categorial Imperative.

Very well put. And great post reference to Kant's Categorical Imperative.

Thank you for saying this. I was not pertaining to class in a socio-economic context at all. Was refering to class as in manners, civility, integrity, and character.

I do agree that it has to start with the children. There are too many lazy parents who won't put in the time to teach/nurture their kids so one day they will be adults who have those important attributes I mentioned above. But with that said, as adults we are responsible for ourselves, and if an adult has nothing but hostility towards others and is consistantly in a self-entitled mind-- unfortunately the cycle will continue.

christine24t

This made me think of something else random!

I go to a school where hockey is huge. When I was a freshman and sophomore, one of the biggest chants was "F**k you ___________" and then fill in whatever school we were playing. When the older kids graduated, that cheer went away and I haven't heard it since. So I think some groups are just less classy and some are more classy. I hated that cheer because there were a lot of little kids there.

That was random but I think it shows that people can become more classy. We now have a lot classier cheers.

My school also had a problem earlier this year with people walking home from the bars and "disrespecting" neighbors' lawns. My school got really worried about that and is currently working with the neighbors to help solve the conflict. People want to become classy...I think it will eventually come back when people realize that they will eventually be judged for their actions.

Scott613

jsielke

We certainly are lacking class, but what can you expect when the nation has become ruled by a "GIMMEE" mentality. Even our current President lacks the class to even place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played. When our elected leader have no class, are they not a reflection of the electorate. As a student, and one-time instructor of Ancient History, I can see this lack of "class" a a symptom of a incinerating society, which will eventually fail altogether. Makes me glad to be a "senior citizen" so I won't have to watch it to then end.

BaileyP3

By reading the responses, not only do we lack class as a society - not enough money is invested in our educational system!

I don't think it's up to teachers to raise their students. The job starts at home. A child that learns manners at home will be better equipped to behave in the classroom.

BaileyP3

It's because these days children are all taught in school that they're entitled to get what they want. They're not allowed to fail, they're not allowed to excel, they aren't taught manners, and they aren't punished when they're obnoxious or disrespectful to others.

The above paragraph is a result of using schools as the scapegoat for problems that originate AT HOME

Discipline?

This paragraph is a result of the lack of options for discipline we have as teachers. I remember being paddled by my first grade teacher. Now, we can't even touch a kid. If I pull a kid away from a fight, I can loose my job or get sued. Discipline now is just silent lunch, in-school suspension, and out-of-school suspension. The problem is, the students that are constant discipline problems that act the way the OP describes have no consequence AT HOME when they get in trouble at school. The parents behave a certain way, the child feels that is acceptable behavior.

Manners?

Well, we try, but if the child is allowed to use foul language or be disrespectful at home, it won't matter what we teach them at school. We do punish them, get a ear full full from the parents because we're picking on their kid, and the behavior continues. Once again, if it's allowed AT HOME, it doesn't matter that they got ISS or whatever because they are going home to no consequences.

Failing?

They are allowed to fail, I hand out plenty of F grades, BUT students are often still passed on to the next grade when they clearly don't have the knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I get a call from a parent, screaming at me because there's no way their kid could fail, and that I must "have it in" for them since I sent home an F on a report card. What happens on the next report card? The student fails again because it's not addressed AT HOME

Hear! Hear Ebbtime! I work in middle school!!!

JM

Years ago teaching was a desirable job. You worked hard, you felt valued and in Canada you were appropriately compensated.
Now I wouldn't be a teacher if my life depended on it.

We have friends with a 6 year old. Last summer the dad told us that he was angry with the school system. Seems that 6 year old needed to improve his reading skills over the summer to keep with the class and the teacher recommended that the parents practice with him. Our friend said 'It's not my job to teach him to read. That's the schools job.' Keep in mind that this man and his wife are college educated with professional jobs. WTH?? I wonder what else he'll expect the school to do in order to raise his kid?

BaileyP3

I couldnt help but sit here and chuckle. My family went out last evening and I had 3diff people come up to me and state that my 3yr old boy was way to polite. My reply was what do u want him to do run around the returant and say naughty words instead of sitting here quietly using his manners. They walked away. WTF??? We r raising him to use manners, be respectful, polite, and do whats right and I get ?ed about it. Yes my son is over polite but I would rather have that then some of the kids out there.
Alot plays into how we r as a socity now adays. There is our up bringing, media, friends, ect. In a whole it can b resolved if more people cared.

My husband and I make a point to stop by a table and compliment a family with well-behaved children whenever we're out. I think of it as positive reinforcement since most of the time all you hear is negativity. I'm sorry that you chose to respond that way. A polite 'thank you' might have been a more appropriate (and mannerly) response.