Misinformation.

Acg67

brock303030

In my weight loss journey, I have found that it is like religon and politics. People learn something or get taught something, or have success doing something. What they know and think is the only way or the right way. Some people believe the only way to get healthy is eating "healthy foods". Who is to say what is healthy. I have gone on diets where I have eaten healthy for months and have lost a lot of weight, yet I could not maintain it because I wanted the foods that I used to eat. I would gain all the weight back plus some each time. I know many people on here do not buy in to calories in calories out and that not all calories are created equal. I eat the same foods I always ate, I have fast food every day like I always did, I eat pizza, hot wings, chinese food, whatever I want to eat. I also walk 8-10 miles a day. I will begin lifting weights in a couple months. In 7 weeks i have lost 38 pounds. I never lost that much weight eating 100% clean and mixing that with weight and cardio training.

I had a friend that got a juicer and was miserble with what he was eating. He wasn't loosing as much weight because he wasn't satisfied and would cheat. Now he has bought in to calories in and calories out and he is seeing results and he enjoys life. In the end, TO EACH HIS OWN!

hirensthenameliftinsthegame

I'd like to talk about something.

Often times on the forums, we'll see someone post what looks like a helpful post full of dieting information. If the information is faulty, some people will reply with the intent to correct it in the hopes that too many people don't buy into the bad information.

Then a bunch of people will get upset with the guy or gal who is trying to correct the person, saying "Stop hating" or "Stop being so negative!". (Sometimes people do post rude replies but it seems like any disagreement is arbitrarily viewed as negative as of late).

Misinformation is bad.

I will give you a few examples to attempt to explain why:

Let's look at meal frequency, which would fall into the personal preference category. Does meal frequency matter?

It might matter for behavioral reasons and it might matter for performance reasons and if it leads to better gym performance it could minimally effect expenditure. But it DOES NOT effect metabolism and if someone says this gem:

"It's very important to eat every 3 hours so that your metabolism keeps burning. If you skip a meal your metabolism will slow down and your body will actually STORE FAT. So please make sure to eat every 3 hours". (<--- this claim is entirely false)

...this is problematic because people who DON'T currently eat frequently might think "Crap, I'm doing it wrong. I'm going to have to fix this". Now they're going to reschedule what could be an eating pattern that works very well for them based on the bad information that increasing their frequency will increase metabolic rate. Additionally, they'll have to eat smaller meals (because they would obviously keep kcals/macros constant) which would probably have a negative effect on adherence/satiety.

Is eating frequently arbitrarily bad? No. It's personal preference. But convincing someone that it's metabolically relevant is BAD, because this convinces them that they must follow this advice.

Lets look at a different example from a recent thread:

"You shouldn't combine carbs and fats in the same meal because it will cause your body to store fat!"

This was recently posted in a topic and not only is it completely bogus and not supported by anything, but the end result was (literally) that someone replied with:

"Thanks so much for this, I'm going to stop eating PB+J sandwiches".

So someone comes on here and posts something completely false and out of fear, another person eliminates something they enjoy from their diet. Now, for all we know someone else is reading that post and not replying, because they're in the kitchen stressed out over how they're going to re-arrange every meal in their day so that the carb sources aren't ever eaten with fat.


This is not a good thing.

There's a very small list of things that are necessary to lose weight.
There's a very large list of things that are personal preference for losing weight. (In this list I include medical reasons, moral reasons, individual intolerances).


Both of these are important, but focus on the necessities first and customize the personal preference aspects to give you the best adherence or most enjoyment possible out of your journey.


And don't confuse the two for yourself or others.

/end rant.

Regarding the fats and carbs reference, again it depends on context, if your eating post workout, sure fats/carbs are needed, but if your going to have 70g of fat and 200g of carbs, and depending on the kind of carbs too and how much fiber, some fat might or might not be stored.

There is things to take into account such as the insulin index, the amount of protein and the protein digestion rate that influence the total gi pass time of the foods you eat...

But yea, again everything you said has its own context where its positive and/or negative, meal frequency doesn't influence metabolism at all(completely agree, lol i only eat 2 meals a day).

Anyhow, congrats on posting this, lol i was thinking about doing it too, but didn't really have the time!

Seems like you know alot of good information!

ngr1973

Thank you so much for this post. As someone who has a considerable amount to lose, often the threads lead to more confusion than clarity and it gets even more overwhelming.

Again, thanks!

NewVonnie

Admittedly I am not a brilliant person in the area of diet and fitness. That being said I try to surround myself with people who are. People who consistently wade through all the BS and focus on facts and research. And of course common sense. There are a handful of people here who do just that. If you read and research and listen long enough, it is fairly easy to see who they are.

I have a short list of people who I listen to. I scroll through all the rest to find their advice...and it ALWAYS works. ALWAYS. You are one of them. THANK YOU!

It's not nearly as difficult to be successful at this than people imagine. There are simple basic things that matter, and the rest is preference. Why make it more difficult?

Sidesteal

Regarding the fats and carbs reference, again it depends on context, if your eating post workout, sure fats/carbs are needed, but if your going to have 70g of fat and 200g of carbs, and depending on the kind of carbs too and how much fiber, some fat might or might not be stored.

Can you please present any information that supports this idea? Clearly context would still matter so using your above example lets assume that the individual is not exceeding total daily intake in calories or macronutrients.

What is your take on this article:
http://alanaragon.com/bodybuilding-nutrition-roundtable-alan-aragon-will-brink-jamie-hale-layne-norton.html

There is things to take into account such as the insulin index, the amount of protein and the protein digestion rate that influence the total gi pass time of the foods you eat...

But yea, again everything you said has its own context where its positive and/or negative, meal frequency doesn't influence metabolism at all(completely agree, lol i only eat 2 meals a day).

Where does insulin come to play when looking at the long term effects and not focusing on the short term results of insulin raising and lowering? As you say, context is ABSOLUTELY relevant. Since most people are losing weight, lets assume that we are in a caloric deficit. Does insulin matter in this context?

EDIT: Let me be clear, I am asking you because if you can validate your claim, I can learn from it.

lisakyle_11

There's nothing more catastrophic than not eating PB&J anymore.


Just teasing. Thanks much for the post. I agree.

i know! i have been thinking about the pb&j thing... no way would or could i ever conform!

Acg67

Regarding the fats and carbs reference, again it depends on context, if your eating post workout, sure fats/carbs are needed, but if your going to have 70g of fat and 200g of carbs, and depending on the kind of carbs too and how much fiber, some fat might or might not be stored.

There is things to take into account such as the insulin index, the amount of protein and the protein digestion rate that influence the total gi pass time of the foods you eat...

Yes context matters, however most people who tell you avoid C + F in a meal is basing it on the notion of avoiding ingesting fat while spiking insulin levels, which leaves out the role ASP plays in fat storage and if you are in a hypocaloric state, it doesn't matter all that much

Benji49

Nice post, and it needed to be said. Thank you.

andygettinfitt

I gotta say mr. steel, if I may cal you that, you are always full of GOOD information and try your best to show others the way. Every time you commant I know it would be good information. Thank you, and you have a good monday mr.steel.

felice03

great post!

grinch031

In my weight loss journey, I have found that it is like religon and politics. People learn something or get taught something, or have success doing something. What they know and think is the only way or the right way. Some people believe the only way to get healthy is eating "healthy foods". Who is to say what is healthy. I have gone on diets where I have eaten healthy for months and have lost a lot of weight, yet I could not maintain it because I wanted the foods that I used to eat. I would gain all the weight back plus some each time. I know many people on here do not buy in to calories in calories out and that not all calories are created equal. I eat the same foods I always ate, I have fast food every day like I always did, I eat pizza, hot wings, chinese food, whatever I want to eat. I also walk 8-10 miles a day. I will begin lifting weights in a couple months. In 7 weeks i have lost 38 pounds. I never lost that much weight eating 100% clean and mixing that with weight and cardio training.

I had a friend that got a juicer and was miserble with what he was eating. He wasn't loosing as much weight because he wasn't satisfied and would cheat. Now he has bought in to calories in and calories out and he is seeing results and he enjoys life. In the end, TO EACH HIS OWN!

The reason people reject calories in, calories out is because it is an over-simplification. It doesn't take into account how macro-nutrients affect hormones in each person's body differently.

I have established that no matter what type of foods I eat, a calorie is a calorie as far as my weight loss goes. However if I eat 2000 calories of junk food, I am starving all the time. If I eat 2000 calories of clean food, I am satisfied. So by that logic, which is the better diet? The one in which I feel healthier, more energized, and less hungry, even though both diets lead to the exact same weight loss. So that's why I never subscribe to the over-simplification of calories in, calories out. I think in terms of sustained weight loss efforts.

BeautifulScarsWECHANGED

Thank you for posting this....finally a thread worth reading. LOL!

taso42

Great post :drinker:

morgthom75

Thanks for this. Always get so frustrated when I see crap like that posted. Getting to the point where it's annoying to go on the forums anymore.

Faintgreeneyes

Sidesteal for the win!

Thank you for posting something that is not absolute crap. It makes my brain happy to read an intelligent, thought out post, something that is lacking these days on the forums.

Acg67

In my weight loss journey, I have found that it is like religon and politics. People learn something or get taught something, or have success doing something. What they know and think is the only way or the right way. Some people believe the only way to get healthy is eating "healthy foods". Who is to say what is healthy. I have gone on diets where I have eaten healthy for months and have lost a lot of weight, yet I could not maintain it because I wanted the foods that I used to eat. I would gain all the weight back plus some each time. I know many people on here do not buy in to calories in calories out and that not all calories are created equal. I eat the same foods I always ate, I have fast food every day like I always did, I eat pizza, hot wings, chinese food, whatever I want to eat. I also walk 8-10 miles a day. I will begin lifting weights in a couple months. In 7 weeks i have lost 38 pounds. I never lost that much weight eating 100% clean and mixing that with weight and cardio training.

I had a friend that got a juicer and was miserble with what he was eating. He wasn't loosing as much weight because he wasn't satisfied and would cheat. Now he has bought in to calories in and calories out and he is seeing results and he enjoys life. In the end, TO EACH HIS OWN!

The reason people reject calories in, calories out is because it is an over-simplification. It doesn't take into account how macro-nutrients affect hormones in each person's body differently.

I have established that no matter what type of foods I eat, a calorie is a calorie as far as my weight loss goes. However if I eat 2000 calories of junk food, I am starving all the time. If I eat 2000 calories of clean food, I am satisfied. So by that logic, which is the better diet? The one in which I feel healthier, more energized, and less hungry, even though both diets lead to the exact same weight loss. So that's why I never subscribe to the over-simplification of calories in, calories out. I think in terms of sustained weight loss efforts.

First what is a clean food? Secondly, you're using anecdotal evidence again, for example a study on the satiety of common foods found jelly beans to be quite filling. Find a diet you can adhere to, if it's Paleo or low carb or a diet of moderation, that is the best diet for you, however don't think any diet achieves weight loss through any magical thing another then a calorie deficit.

Veganbambina

Thank you for posting this. People need to use their noggin and not just run with what ever they read on here. Most of it is personal opinion and no one likes to be told that they are wrong.

ninerbuff

I'd like to talk about something.

Often times on the forums, we'll see someone post what looks like a helpful post full of dieting information. If the information is faulty, some people will reply with the intent to correct it in the hopes that too many people don't buy into the bad information.

Then a bunch of people will get upset with the guy or gal who is trying to correct the person, saying "Stop hating" or "Stop being so negative!". (Sometimes people do post rude replies but it seems like any disagreement is arbitrarily viewed as negative as of late).

Misinformation is bad.

I will give you a few examples to attempt to explain why:

Let's look at meal frequency, which would fall into the personal preference category. Does meal frequency matter?

It might matter for behavioral reasons and it might matter for performance reasons and if it leads to better gym performance it could minimally effect expenditure. But it DOES NOT effect metabolism and if someone says this gem:

"It's very important to eat every 3 hours so that your metabolism keeps burning. If you skip a meal your metabolism will slow down and your body will actually STORE FAT. So please make sure to eat every 3 hours". (<--- this claim is entirely false)

...this is problematic because people who DON'T currently eat frequently might think "Crap, I'm doing it wrong. I'm going to have to fix this". Now they're going to reschedule what could be an eating pattern that works very well for them based on the bad information that increasing their frequency will increase metabolic rate. Additionally, they'll have to eat smaller meals (because they would obviously keep kcals/macros constant) which would probably have a negative effect on adherence/satiety.

Is eating frequently arbitrarily bad? No. It's personal preference. But convincing someone that it's metabolically relevant is BAD, because this convinces them that they must follow this advice.

Lets look at a different example from a recent thread:

"You shouldn't combine carbs and fats in the same meal because it will cause your body to store fat!"

This was recently posted in a topic and not only is it completely bogus and not supported by anything, but the end result was (literally) that someone replied with:

"Thanks so much for this, I'm going to stop eating PB+J sandwiches".

So someone comes on here and posts something completely false and out of fear, another person eliminates something they enjoy from their diet. Now, for all we know someone else is reading that post and not replying, because they're in the kitchen stressed out over how they're going to re-arrange every meal in their day so that the carb sources aren't ever eaten with fat.


This is not a good thing.

There's a very small list of things that are necessary to lose weight.
There's a very large list of things that are personal preference for losing weight. (In this list I include medical reasons, moral reasons, individual intolerances).


Both of these are important, but focus on the necessities first and customize the personal preference aspects to give you the best adherence or most enjoyment possible out of your journey.


And don't confuse the two for yourself or others.

/end rant.

I'm sure the others who are "in the know" appreciate this post like I do. Keep up the good work bro.


A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Miss_Chievous_wechange

THANK YOU!

mamalade1

Yep, critical thinking, people: it's useful stuff. When people (not necessarily people on here, but people who are selling their diet plans) make a claim, they should have a list of works cited which shows you which scientific studies, if any, they used. It is easy enough to find the original study and check it out for yourself. If you don't want to wade through the report, chances are someone else already has and has blogged about it in detail.

prism6

there are 1000 experts waiting to tell you about everything and anything....ever notice at the first of the year,the magazines tout the newest sure fire diet? and have been for 50yrs? There is no magic, My weightloss has been an obvious one for me...quit drinking alcohol,exercise and healthy food..that's it...lot's of water too. I enjoyed putting on the weight and now I am enjoying taking it off..And I will be enjoying it for about another 50lbs......

grinch031

In my weight loss journey, I have found that it is like religon and politics. People learn something or get taught something, or have success doing something. What they know and think is the only way or the right way. Some people believe the only way to get healthy is eating "healthy foods". Who is to say what is healthy. I have gone on diets where I have eaten healthy for months and have lost a lot of weight, yet I could not maintain it because I wanted the foods that I used to eat. I would gain all the weight back plus some each time. I know many people on here do not buy in to calories in calories out and that not all calories are created equal. I eat the same foods I always ate, I have fast food every day like I always did, I eat pizza, hot wings, chinese food, whatever I want to eat. I also walk 8-10 miles a day. I will begin lifting weights in a couple months. In 7 weeks i have lost 38 pounds. I never lost that much weight eating 100% clean and mixing that with weight and cardio training.

I had a friend that got a juicer and was miserble with what he was eating. He wasn't loosing as much weight because he wasn't satisfied and would cheat. Now he has bought in to calories in and calories out and he is seeing results and he enjoys life. In the end, TO EACH HIS OWN!

The reason people reject calories in, calories out is because it is an over-simplification. It doesn't take into account how macro-nutrients affect hormones in each person's body differently.

I have established that no matter what type of foods I eat, a calorie is a calorie as far as my weight loss goes. However if I eat 2000 calories of junk food, I am starving all the time. If I eat 2000 calories of clean food, I am satisfied. So by that logic, which is the better diet? The one in which I feel healthier, more energized, and less hungry, even though both diets lead to the exact same weight loss. So that's why I never subscribe to the over-simplification of calories in, calories out. I think in terms of sustained weight loss efforts.

First what is a clean food? Secondly, you're using anecdotal evidence again, for example a study on the satiety of common foods found jelly beans to be quite filling. Find a diet you can adhere to, if it's Paleo or low carb or a diet of moderation, that is the best diet for you, however don't think any diet achieves weight loss through any magical thing another then a calorie deficit.

I wasn't stating anything as fact, so I don't see how your point really applies to me. Just saying that not all calories are created equal when it comes to sustainable weight loss.

Sidesteal

In my weight loss journey, I have found that it is like religon and politics. People learn something or get taught something, or have success doing something. What they know and think is the only way or the right way. Some people believe the only way to get healthy is eating "healthy foods". Who is to say what is healthy. I have gone on diets where I have eaten healthy for months and have lost a lot of weight, yet I could not maintain it because I wanted the foods that I used to eat. I would gain all the weight back plus some each time. I know many people on here do not buy in to calories in calories out and that not all calories are created equal. I eat the same foods I always ate, I have fast food every day like I always did, I eat pizza, hot wings, chinese food, whatever I want to eat. I also walk 8-10 miles a day. I will begin lifting weights in a couple months. In 7 weeks i have lost 38 pounds. I never lost that much weight eating 100% clean and mixing that with weight and cardio training.

I had a friend that got a juicer and was miserble with what he was eating. He wasn't loosing as much weight because he wasn't satisfied and would cheat. Now he has bought in to calories in and calories out and he is seeing results and he enjoys life. In the end, TO EACH HIS OWN!

The reason people reject calories in, calories out is because it is an over-simplification. It doesn't take into account how macro-nutrients affect hormones in each person's body differently.

I have established that no matter what type of foods I eat, a calorie is a calorie as far as my weight loss goes. However if I eat 2000 calories of junk food, I am starving all the time. If I eat 2000 calories of clean food, I am satisfied. So by that logic, which is the better diet? The one in which I feel healthier, more energized, and less hungry, even though both diets lead to the exact same weight loss. So that's why I never subscribe to the over-simplification of calories in, calories out. I think in terms of sustained weight loss efforts.

First what is a clean food? Secondly, you're using anecdotal evidence again, for example a study on the satiety of common foods found jelly beans to be quite filling. Find a diet you can adhere to, if it's Paleo or low carb or a diet of moderation, that is the best diet for you, however don't think any diet achieves weight loss through any magical thing another then a calorie deficit.

I wasn't stating anything as fact, so I don't see how your point really applies to me. Just saying that not all calories are created equal when it comes to sustainable weight loss.

STOP THE NEGATIVITY, HATERS!




















Just kidding, keep discussing.

NikkiPsuedoDupuis

thank you. I miss my pbj but so worried about eating bread all the time lol

I eat bread everyday, I could never give it up. True I switched to whole wheat Weight Watchers bread instead of the fresh from the oven melt in your mouth white bread I love so much, but it still fills the craving. I've lost 18lbs since I started here in January, obviously cutting out bread completely isn't the ONLY solution to weight loss lol.

MissFit0101

bump

Acg67

This post also begs the other question, for every poster that thanks the OP and says great post, even if it's filled with pseudoscience and other falsehoods, do they actually believe what the OP wrote to be true and if so how did they arrive at that conclusion?

Sidesteal

This post also begs the other question, for every poster that thanks the OP and says great post, even if it's filled with pseudoscience and other falsehoods, do they actually believe what the OP wrote to be true and if so how did they arrive at that conclusion?

This indirectly goes hand in hand with what I said about the Pb+J, and why it's so important for people to discuss the validity of information offered. The vast majority do not research so they are most likely to take information as true. Especially if the OP has abs.

Good post Acg.

meli_medina

A thread worth reading AND replying to. You, sir, are the bee's knees.

Sidesteal

A thread worth reading AND replying to. You, sir, are the bee's knees.

One day I hope to meet you and Crystal and the three of us will go to a buffet.