This is horrifying...
Replies
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This is disgusting, that is what it is.
I am all for meat consumption, but it has to be from local farm raised sources. There is NO way in hell that I will ever eat chicken that has been massed produced like some boxed macaroni and cheese. And there is NO way that I will ever eat that cloned meat they are working on right now.
Cloned ground beef is supposed to be released in October or some time this year.
GROSS
Do you drink milk? Milk from cloned milk cows was approved by the FDA on January 8, 2008. Many of the large dairy farms have numerous "genetic twins, triplets, quads, quints, etc." (and many more) producing for them.
Completely off topic from the OP's post, but I think it's really weird that people drink milk (I don't drink it, don't like it). We are the only species on EARTH that drink's another animal's milk. Milk is meant for nursing young...why are we drinking it from a cow? We're not baby cows...
But dammit I do love cheese. I try to shop only organic and eat cheese sparingly, but it's delicious.
There is a very long list of things humans do that no other species does. If we start living out lives based on that, well, you wouldn't be on this message board right now, would you?
Well obviously, but I'm not talking about abilities and problem solving skills humans have as opposed to animals, I just think it's really weird that people drink cow's milk...I mean, we don't drink other people's breast milk...0 -
6 billion, 7 billion, 8 billion, it doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that huge population requires protein and yes the best protein comes from meat. It took millions of evolution that involved us being primarily meat eaters. Show me one study stating that "vegetarian diets (if properly done) are overall healthier than one that incorporates meat."
nonsense...
this is why i'm a vegetarian.. facts are, we dont feed 6billion (the number is closer to 7billion btw) people of the world. nearly 15% of the population is considered starving. i am not sure how many are considered mal nourished..there is a difference. many people in the US are malnourished yet overweight. facts are, animal farms, feed lots etc contribute to much of our pollution, clear cutting forests, erosion problems, poor soil quality. Facts are, a vegetarian diet is more sustainable for populations as well as the Earth. humans dont NEED meat to survive. in fact, vegetarian diets (if properly done) are overall healthier than one that incorporates meat.
I will wait.
Watch the documentary "Forks over Knives". Tons of studies in there that show eating a vegan (Or vegetarian with very very low dairy) diet is much healthier.
I'll Wait...
Forks over Knives is nothing but propaganda and scare tactics. Pssshhhhh, puleazeeeee.
AMEN. Anybody can have a healthy diet if they choose to regardless of if they eat meat and animal products or not. If you search hard enough, you can find a study to justify pretty much every eating/diet trend out there. Just be mindful of what you eat and how it got to your plate.0 -
Ha ha, yes, especially since there has never been a vegan or vegetarian society.......................However, there are societies that live almost completely off of animal sources because vegetation does not grow.
Most vegetarians and vegans are so misguided. SMH
Also, another thing to add is that growing all this subsidized corn, wheat, soy is what causes poor soil quality, not animals.
And who do you think eats all that subsidized grain? Hint: not people.
Some omnivores are so misguided.0 -
Noooo the cerebral cortex was one of my favorite parts of the chicke to eat.. Nothing like bbq chicken cerberal cortex. haha Now I am going to have to re invest my stocks into chicken CC's just because they are going to be so expensive and hard to get if that happens.
Ok all you natural farm eaters this is for you, my grandma owns a natural farm and if they do that "inhuman" matix thing to the chickens then its going to take all the fun out of chopping off the chickens heads and watching it run in circles until it finally stops. Some how this in some peoples minds is better than uhhhh the matrix inhuman thing how again........:huh: ? Too many people are spoiled. I think just because you can goto the store and the meat is all pre fresh, pre plucked, cut up and packaged all nice and neat, people just dont understand the value of food.. Grow up!! I think if your belly gets hungry enough and you have to do it your self you will appreciate lifes food that much more or just understand what it takes and be thankful for the variety of lifes food.0 -
The saddest part of this story is thinking about the chickens that might have had a life-long dream to grow up delicious. Now they'll never know.0
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Fascinating twists and turns this thread took. :drinker:
The reason I posted the story is because it intrigues me that there's no simple solution. Everyone here has valid points.
I'm a meat eater and I only buy chicken marked "cage free" and "humanely raised" but what exactly does that mean anyway? I've honestly never tracked down the legal regulations that this kind of marketing language is required to abide by (if they exist). I've not done any extensive research into the efficiency of whatever agencies try to reinforce it either. Have you?
The story "horrifies" me in the sense that it hits on some kind of dystopian sci-fi unease that I can't quite put my finger on. The idea that humanity has grown and spread so rampantly that we now need to grow "crops" of sense-free animal matter to harvest for a sustainable future is a shocking reminder of the imbalances we cause.
I think the practices mentioned in the story will inevitably happen. They'll have to. And after them something even more unusual and potentially abhorrent will replace them. I wonder if they'll be as out-of-sight, out-of-mind as present day practices? My guess is yes.0 -
The saddest part of this story is thinking about the chickens that might have had a life-long dream to grow up delicious. Now they'll never know.
its ok because I know they will live on through me! I dont have biceps those are chickenceps... :happy:0 -
Fascinating twists and turns this thread took. :drinker:
The reason I posted the story is because it intrigues me that there's no simple solution. Everyone here has valid points.
I'm a meat eater and I only buy chicken marked "cage free" and "humanely raised" but what exactly does that mean anyway? I've honestly never tracked down the legal regulations that this kind of marketing language is required to abide by (if they exist). I've not done any extensive research into the efficiency of whatever agencies try to reinforce it either. Have you?
The story "horrifies" me in the sense that it hits on some kind of dystopian sci-fi unease that I can't quite put my finger on. The idea that humanity has grown and spread so rampantly that we now need to grow "crops" of sense-free animal matter to harvest for a sustainable future is a shocking reminder of the imbalances we cause.
I think the practices mentioned in the story will inevitably happen. They'll have to. And after them something even more unusual and potentially abhorrent will replace them. I wonder if they'll be as out-of-sight, out-of-mind as present day practices? My guess is yes.
Humanely raised but they still have to die to be eaten and how do you think they get that way?....Unless you eat live chickens? Now thats inhuman and not "fascinating" at all but sick to me!
Its not horrifing its reality bud. Heres some fascinating sci fi. for you.....Think of you being a human thousands of years ago and some one telling you the earth will be so over populated full of people that they will have to raise mass chicken in farms steriod or steriod free reguardless for human consumption. We will have to crop thousands of acres of crops which will pollute the earth. We wont live forever because we are consumers. We will eventually run out of natural resources and the sun will eventually burn out.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO MISTREAT ANIMALS.. So eat and be happy and thankful your not starving! Put that in your facinating cup and drink that lol0 -
I just got done eating chicken. Now, I feel all gross inside.0
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This is disgusting, that is what it is.
I am all for meat consumption, but it has to be from local farm raised sources. There is NO way in hell that I will ever eat chicken that has been massed produced like some boxed macaroni and cheese. And there is NO way that I will ever eat that cloned meat they are working on right now.
Cloned ground beef is supposed to be released in October or some time this year.
GROSS
Do you drink milk? Milk from cloned milk cows was approved by the FDA on January 8, 2008. Many of the large dairy farms have numerous "genetic twins, triplets, quads, quints, etc." (and many more) producing for them.
Completely off topic from the OP's post, but I think it's really weird that people drink milk (I don't drink it, don't like it). We are the only species on EARTH that drink's another animal's milk. Milk is meant for nursing young...why are we drinking it from a cow? We're not baby cows...
But dammit I do love cheese. I try to shop only organic and eat cheese sparingly, but it's delicious.
There is a very long list of things humans do that no other species does. If we start living out lives based on that, well, you wouldn't be on this message board right now, would you?
Well obviously, but I'm not talking about abilities and problem solving skills humans have as opposed to animals, I just think it's really weird that people drink cow's milk...I mean, we don't drink other people's breast milk...
Yes, I have made this very point in many a topic. Adults are not supposed to drink baby food!
What I'm saying is; those strongly opposed to eating anything from a cloned animal don't realize they eat cloned or biologically engineered stuff all the time; even vegans. Nearly all commercially raised produce is tweaked in one way or another. One example is corn.. almost all commercially raised corn is BE in one way or another. It could be to resist a particular mold that causes it to spoil on the stalk or to resist a particular bug.. or to be immune to weed killers. (like the soy beans that are resistant to RoundUp weed killer scandal)0 -
I think most of you have not grasped the potential paradigm shift that would occur with this possibility. It will potentially remove "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off" from relevance. It would rend the very fabric of language, people!!! What would be next? Making one legged men ineligible for *kitten* kicking contests? WHERE WILL IT END?!
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I just got done eating chicken. Now, I feel all gross inside.
:flowerforyou: Well as long as it was cooked all the way you should be fine.0 -
I just got done eating chicken. Now, I feel all gross inside.
Did you make sure it was dead first? If not, that would explain the gross feeling. They will run around for a long time until they are completely dead. So be prepared for that to take a while to go away.0 -
This is disgusting, that is what it is.
I am all for meat consumption, but it has to be from local farm raised sources. There is NO way in hell that I will ever eat chicken that has been massed produced like some boxed macaroni and cheese. And there is NO way that I will ever eat that cloned meat they are working on right now.
Cloned ground beef is supposed to be released in October or some time this year.
GROSS
Do you drink milk? Milk from cloned milk cows was approved by the FDA on January 8, 2008. Many of the large dairy farms have numerous "genetic twins, triplets, quads, quints, etc." (and many more) producing for them.
Completely off topic from the OP's post, but I think it's really weird that people drink milk (I don't drink it, don't like it). We are the only species on EARTH that drink's another animal's milk. Milk is meant for nursing young...why are we drinking it from a cow? We're not baby cows...
But dammit I do love cheese. I try to shop only organic and eat cheese sparingly, but it's delicious.
There is a very long list of things humans do that no other species does. If we start living out lives based on that, well, you wouldn't be on this message board right now, would you?
Well obviously, but I'm not talking about abilities and problem solving skills humans have as opposed to animals, I just think it's really weird that people drink cow's milk...I mean, we don't drink other people's breast milk...
But it's because of our abilities and problem-solving skills that we do things other animals do not, such as flush our waste products into a sewer rather than squatting and burying in the dirt. It's also why we cook our food. No other species cooks its food. Should we eat all raw food? Also, other animals do not combine different foods into yummy recipes. Maybe we're not supposed to do that, either.
The argument that we shouldn't drink milk because other species don't is ridiculous when put into proper context.0 -
I could cut a chicken's head off but I couldn't torture it for it's entire life first.Ok all you natural farm eaters this is for you, my grandma owns a natural farm and if they do that "inhuman" matix thing to the chickens then its going to take all the fun out of chopping off the chickens heads and watching it run in circles until it finally stops. Some how this in some peoples minds is better than uhhhh the matrix inhuman thing how again........:huh: ?0 -
I could cut a chicken's head off but I couldn't torture it for it's entire life first.Ok all you natural farm eaters this is for you, my grandma owns a natural farm and if they do that "inhuman" matix thing to the chickens then its going to take all the fun out of chopping off the chickens heads and watching it run in circles until it finally stops. Some how this in some peoples minds is better than uhhhh the matrix inhuman thing how again........:huh: ?
^ New flash its illegal for any one to torture animals (Felony crime!)
Just think though if they did the matrix thing then it would be easier to push a button or pull the plug on the chickens standing upright in rows, rather than the old school way and just to chop off its head.
Edit: IMO I dont think the majority of farmers would invest this kind of cash into this process and equipment unless it was manditory. Its much easier and cheaper the old fashion way.0 -
How is it horrifying if these 'animals' have no sensory part to their brain? If they feel no pain, why would this be considered inhumane?
Sure, and if this works... let's put some humans on the line too. We could use them for surrogates for our babies and we could all have beautiful bodies! And then we could put some cows on there so they wouldn't have to graze the pastures. And then..... there's a moral boundary here somewhere.
i would love to have a brainless back up of myself in case i ever needed an organ. i dont see any difference in growing a brainless body and growing a heart/lung etc by itself to use as a replacement.0 -
^ New flash its illegal to torture animals (Felony crime!) and you would goto prison.
maybe the farmer isn't directly torturing them but the cages, restraints, chickens running into each other, lack of sunlight, etc. still are torture.
either the chicken would have to be so weak that it would just die or they would still have to kill it somehow. Either way I wouldn't want to eat it.Just think though if they did the matrix thing then all they would have to do is pull the plug on the chicken rather than the old school way and just to chop off its head.0 -
We dont NEED families of 7-15 kids, why is it still allowed? i say there should be a limit on offspring, and also stop trying to solve aids in africa and start trying to educate the people to not have multiple babies one after another.
sorry if this is very right wing, but thats just who i am.
People like you frighten me.
And that's not right wing. That's Chinese law and China is leftist.
actually im british, in britain, thats considered a right wing view.
i shouldnt frighten you, i dont intend on breeding, who wants to raise any child in the world we will leave behind when we die?0 -
^ New flash its illegal to torture animals (Felony crime!) and you would goto prison.
maybe the farmer isn't directly torturing them but the cages, restraints, chickens running into each other, lack of sunlight, etc. still are torture.
either the chicken would have to be so weak that it would just die or they would still have to kill it somehow. Either way I wouldn't want to eat it.Just think though if they did the matrix thing then all they would have to do is pull the plug on the chicken rather than the old school way and just to chop off its head.
Fact is its not torture therefore not illegal because they have to follow guidelines! You wouldnt want to eat a chicken with no c.cortex like that part really matters to you when you eat chicken in some way now? Also thats fine with me because that means their would be more chickens in the world to eat for me so thanks! :bigsmile:0 -
anything that constantly inflicts pain on the chicken is torture.Fact is its not torture therefore not illegal!You wouldnt want to eat a chicken with no c.cortex like that part really matters to you when you eat chicken in some way now? Also thats fine with me because that means their would be more chickens in the world to eat for me so thanks! :bigsmile:
you can eat the factory chickens and I'll eat the organic humanely raised ones. :bigsmile:0 -
Hypothetical question, just to stir some more stuff up... :devil:
Imagine we could grow brain-free human beings at the same speed as brain-free chickens.
That's a significantly greater amount of of meat per animal. Where would you stand ethically on eating that instead?0 -
Hypothetical question, just to stir some more stuff up... :devil:
Imagine we could grow brain-free human beings at the same speed as brain-free chickens.
That's a significantly greater amount of of meat per animal. Where would you stand ethically on eating that instead?
I've heard it tastes just like chicken too!0 -
I know we're talking about chickens, but the fact is, if America alone cut its beef and alcohol consumption in half we could end world hunger with the remaining grain.
The US makes up 6% of the global population but uses 60% of the world's resources.
Cattle alone outnumber humans 10 to 1 in America. It takes 22lbs of grain and 5000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of edible beef in an "intense confinement" factory farm. We don't have enough grain and water here, so we buy it from other countries causing famine and draught. All to suit our overindulgence.
No one outside of America wants our beef due to all the steroids and antibiotics in it. Not to mention the growth hormone proven to cause breast cancer - the paten for this hormone is owned by the same company that owns the paten for the chemo used to cure breast cancer. Eli Lilly.
Which means this is not something the US does export for money. There is so much excess, cattle companies don't bat an eyelash at a 10% "product" lost - translate to cattle death.
Shall we discuss the fact that cows are not biologically suited to eat an all grain diet as they are forced to do in factory farms? They are meant to eat grass. An all grain diet means the "product" is missing an essential fat burning amino acid. Conjugated Linoleic Acid. Which we then go out and BUY in vitamin form to help with weight loss. Also - for decades meat eaters have smuggly thumbed their noses at vegetarians over B12. B12 is a bacteria. It is in meat because cattle live in dirt, eat dirt, sleep in dirt. And yet - all the antibiotics they are now on kills the B12 - which has given us an epidemic of misdiagnosed neurological diseases because doctors are not looking for a B12 deficiency in a meat eater.0 -
Hypothetical question, just to stir some more stuff up... :devil:
Imagine we could grow brain-free human beings at the same speed as brain-free chickens.
That's a significantly greater amount of of meat per animal. Where would you stand ethically on eating that instead?
I've heard it tastes just like chicken too!
More like pork, actually.0 -
I know we're talking about chickens, but the fact is, if America alone cut its beef and alcohol consumption in half we could end world hunger with the remaining grain.
The US makes up 6% of the global population but uses 60% of the world's resources.
Cattle alone outnumber humans 10 to 1 in America. It takes 22lbs of grain and 5000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of edible beef in an "intense confinement" factory farm. We don't have enough grain and water here, so we buy it from other countries causing famine and draught. All to suit our overindulgence.
No one outside of America wants our beef due to all the steroids and antibiotics in it. Not to mention the growth hormone proven to cause breast cancer - the paten for this hormone is owned by the same company that owns the paten for the chemo used to cure breast cancer. Eli Lilly.
Which means this is not something the US does export for money. There is so much excess, cattle companies don't bat an eyelash at a 10% "product" lost - translate to cattle death.
Shall we discuss the fact that cows are not biologically suited to eat an all grain diet as they are forced to do in factory farms? They are meant to eat grass. An all grain diet means the "product" is missing an essential fat burning amino acid. Conjugated Linoleic Acid. Which we then go out and BUY in vitamin form to help with weight loss. Also - for decades meat eaters have smuggly thumbed their noses at vegetarians over B12. B12 is a bacteria. It is in meat because cattle live in dirt, eat dirt, sleep in dirt. And yet - all the antibiotics they are now on kills the B12 - which has given us an epidemic of misdiagnosed neurological diseases because doctors are not looking for a B12 deficiency in a meat eater.
I can think of a few other food sources that live in dirt...0 -
6 billion, 7 billion, 8 billion, it doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that huge population requires protein and yes the best protein comes from meat. It took millions of evolution that involved us being primarily meat eaters. Show me one study stating that "vegetarian diets (if properly done) are overall healthier than one that incorporates meat."
nonsense...
this is why i'm a vegetarian.. facts are, we dont feed 6billion (the number is closer to 7billion btw) people of the world. nearly 15% of the population is considered starving. i am not sure how many are considered mal nourished..there is a difference. many people in the US are malnourished yet overweight. facts are, animal farms, feed lots etc contribute to much of our pollution, clear cutting forests, erosion problems, poor soil quality. Facts are, a vegetarian diet is more sustainable for populations as well as the Earth. humans dont NEED meat to survive. in fact, vegetarian diets (if properly done) are overall healthier than one that incorporates meat.
I will wait.
Watch the documentary "Forks over Knives". Tons of studies in there that show eating a vegan (Or vegetarian with very very low dairy) diet is much healthier.
I'll Wait...
Forks over Knives is nothing but propaganda and scare tactics. Pssshhhhh, puleazeeeee.
Right, it’s really scary to be cured of chronic illnesses. And there is a lot of money to be made when people grow their own food. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it provided scientific research and I'm going to choose to go with that then your opinion. Also the response was to someone asking for such a study.
If it scared you then maybe you missed the point. It wasn't to completely eliminate animal products from meals (though that is an option) but just that we as a society eat too much meat and animal protein. Aside from the numerous extensive and detailed studies in that documentary (though biased toward the view of the documentary) there are many other studies that show the benefits of a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle.
Back on the OP's subject, regardless of your diet I think this is horrifying and a gross abomination and abuse of the power we have over animals. This is purely for profit and utterly disgusting.0 -
This is disgusting, that is what it is.
I am all for meat consumption, but it has to be from local farm raised sources. There is NO way in hell that I will ever eat chicken that has been massed produced like some boxed macaroni and cheese. And there is NO way that I will ever eat that cloned meat they are working on right now.
Cloned ground beef is supposed to be released in October or some time this year.
GROSS
Do you drink milk? Milk from cloned milk cows was approved by the FDA on January 8, 2008. Many of the large dairy farms have numerous "genetic twins, triplets, quads, quints, etc." (and many more) producing for them.
Completely off topic from the OP's post, but I think it's really weird that people drink milk (I don't drink it, don't like it). We are the only species on EARTH that drink's another animal's milk. Milk is meant for nursing young...why are we drinking it from a cow? We're not baby cows...
But dammit I do love cheese. I try to shop only organic and eat cheese sparingly, but it's delicious.
There is a very long list of things humans do that no other species does. If we start living out lives based on that, well, you wouldn't be on this message board right now, would you?
Well obviously, but I'm not talking about abilities and problem solving skills humans have as opposed to animals, I just think it's really weird that people drink cow's milk...I mean, we don't drink other people's breast milk...
But it's because of our abilities and problem-solving skills that we do things other animals do not, such as flush our waste products into a sewer rather than squatting and burying in the dirt. It's also why we cook our food. No other species cooks its food. Should we eat all raw food? Also, other animals do not combine different foods into yummy recipes. Maybe we're not supposed to do that, either.
The argument that we shouldn't drink milk because other species don't is ridiculous when put into proper context.
Honestly, I always thought drinking cow's milk was weird too. Who was the person that said "Hey, we should drink that" anyway?
Cat's can be trained to use the toilet and flush so I don't think that is an accurate or even relevant metaphor.
Bee's also make honey by mixing together ingredients. And leaf cutter ants don't eat the leaves they cut, they use it to harvest mold and eat the mold. They also use ingredients for this. Also an inaccurate and irrelevant metaphor.
And on the Cooked food topic, while we are the only species that cooks it's food, we are also the only one that needs to because we store meat. Most veggies don't need to be cooked (some are poisonous if not) but when you cook them all of the live enzymes that are good for you die and you also lose most of the essential vitamins and minerals. So cooking food is ridiculous when put into certain context (I’m sure that’s what you meant besides "proper" context).
I'm not trying to pick on your post in particular but if you are going to call someone ridiculous for believing differently then you should at least use accurate information.0 -
We dont NEED families of 7-15 kids, why is it still allowed? i say there should be a limit on offspring, and also stop trying to solve aids in africa and start trying to educate the people to not have multiple babies one after another.
sorry if this is very right wing, but thats just who i am.
People like you frighten me.
And that's not right wing. That's Chinese law and China is leftist.
Just curious. How would you handle our massive global population?0 -
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