Running: You are doing it wrong.

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  • LilSomethin
    LilSomethin Posts: 545 Member
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    Bump for later :) Thanks for posting!!!
  • jworb
    jworb Posts: 146 Member
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    bump for later - really want to start running but have always had shin/foot pain
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    I fractured my heel running in barefoot shoes last summer (too much too soon), and it actually IS your muscles -- the problem is, once your muscles get fatigued (like from increasing your distance on a long run), the force of your landing is taken up by your BONES. And your bones are not meant to take that kind of impact without support.

    First I disagree with this. Your muscles dont just stop being muscles and supporting you otherwise you would collapse to the ground into a pile. If your running with a proper form AND NOT heel striking then your landing is taken up in the flex of your knee and there is no jarring impact at all. This is not accurate at all.

    And most importantly. If you fractured your heel you are doing it wrong! Your heel should never touch the ground. If you are wearing minimalist shoes and heel striking you are doing nothing but wasting money and looking like a fool.

    "But simply putting something different on your feet doesn’t make you a gliding Tarahumara. The “one best way” isn’t about footwear. It’s about form. Learn to run gently, and you can wear anything. Fail to do so, and no shoe — or lack of shoe — will make a difference."

    ITS NOT WHAT SHOE YOU WEAR ITS HOW YOU RUN.
    So it is true that making your foot / leg muscles stronger will help prevent injuries in these shoes. But depending on your foot (if you have high arches, etc.), long runs may be pushing it either way. My high arches will always mean more impact on my foot in general, b/c my arches are not making contact with the ground to absorb some of the shocks.

    Do you know how an arch works? Its not supposed to make contact with the ground. Its a support. The bones in your foot are an interlocking web and as you put pressure on them they mesh together making a stronger support. Having high arches is a good thing not a bad thing. You are really misinformed.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    According to the ortho who treated me, the medical journals are reporting more and more injuries from long distances in barefoot shoes -- even among uber-athletes who have been running races for eons. Don't get me wrong -- I love my Vibrams. But I have to admit, after my gigantic heel fracture and 2 months off working out on it, I'm scared to try any more than a mile or two in them again.
    I got a metatarsal stress fracture from too much too soon in Vibrams last year. However, after that healed I built back up more intelligently. It is possible to run high mileage on pavement in Vibrams if you let your feet and legs adapt at their own rate during the build up. I have run 71 miles in Vibrams this week so far and am on track to reach 100 ( for the first time) by the end of the week. So far there is no sign of impending injury. I do pay very close attention to running form and try very hard to step lightly.

    This is definitely a possibility but not a heel fracture. The problem with your ortho and his anecdotal evidence is that there are a bunch of people out there buying minimalist shoes that are throwing them on and they think its the shoe that is helping them not the way they run and you have people hurting themselves because they are still running the wrong way and now they dont have a cushion under their heel to protect them.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    I personally wouldn't run barefoot ever, but after reading about the mechanics of running, I gave it a shot at the gym today. I was surprised, it made it a lot easier to run. Normally after my warm up, I can go at a 6.3 mph pace for 10 minutes max, but today I ran at a 6.5 mph pace for almost 15 minutes, and when I focused on a mid foot strike instead of a heel strike, the pain in my knee didn't bother me. Leaning forward slightly helps with the mid foot strike & I could tell when I would revert back to a heel strike, because my knee would start barking.

    Thanks for the helpful advice.

    that is awesome...See folks a change in form in one Session. Not wearing different shoes just changing the mechanics made a significant difference. I can see this poster making even more gains once they get more comfortable with the mechanics and it becomes more second nature
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    "I am wondering how this relates to someone who jogs in place. I notice that my natural gait for this is to land on the ball of my foot and I barely lift my foot off the floor. I am pretty out of shape, and working on building some endurence"

    Anyone?

    I'm not sure this really relates to jogging in place but you can maintain the same form by landing on the forefoot like you are doing now. One thing you could do to get a better work out and "practice" so to speak is to lift your leg much higher. Try to get your knees up more and lift your foot off the ground more.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    One of the most bumped threads I've ever seen.

    I am a mostly "minimalist" runner. My transistion was rather smooth, I already had a good stride, so it felt normal to me. I have not significantly ran truly barefoot yet. But I likely will this summer. I've done up to 10 miles in VFF's in one run. And on occaision in the summer would do 20-25 miles a week in them. I'd do more but the trails I like to run are just too rocky.

    I think a lot of the anti-minimalist people out there just need something to complain about, or are victims of TMTS, which is the #1 rule of barefooting.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    There is a lot of talk in this thread about buying special shoes to run with barefoot mechanics. This is not necessary. I dont condone anyone run barefoot nor do I suggest anyone buy Vibrams or other minimalist shoe.

    I also would strongly suggest anyone who is running in a shoe that corrects a "running defect" like pronation to stop. Read the book and understand what 30 years of shoe companies telling you what you need is doing to their bottom line. Are there people out there with foot problems yes but they are probably caused by something else and that orthotic is not doing anything but making your foot weaker.

    I love my asics and I paid damn good money for them but dont think that a shoe is the cure to your shin splints, ankle problems, Plantar Faciatis or any other running malady.

    Take a moment and read this amazing article. Especially the Sections labeled "Painful truths" near the bottom.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

    Check out these videos on technique and comparisons of heel strikes and mid/fore foot striking,

    http://youtu.be/2OE1OPzBc04 - Technique and comparison
    http://youtu.be/TjrEyfQC5NQ - Barefoot slow motion
    http://youtu.be/XO4MruQov4Q - Shod forefoot strike running SlowMo
    http://youtu.be/F0UlMam8-lw - Shod Heel strike SlowMo

    Great compilation of experts on the barefoot running debate
    http://www.chrismcdougall.com/barefoot.html
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    I am a new runner (started the C25K program September, Finished in November, been running 3 times a week under 15 miles since) and I have just started having ankle/calf issues. I am wondering if it has something to do with my shoes...

    I currently wear Asic Gel Nimbus 12's. When I first started running, I bought a minimalist shoe to start off with (Reebok Reflex's) and when I started running, I got inflamed knees because there was no shock absorbtion (mind you, I was 200 lbs at the time and a BRAND new runner). My doctor told me to get fitted for something with more cushion and shock absorbtion. I am a mid foot striker.

    I see a podiatrist this Wednesday. Anyone else having these issues?

    If you are striking mid foot you should not be getting much shock to your hips and knees. Especially any that a shoe would absorb. I would guess that you are not in fact a mid foot striker and you are in fact heel striking. The best way to find out is to video record your run and watch it back in slow motion. Make sure you dont just record the first couple minutes. record the whole run then jump to the middle or end and see what you are really doing.
  • MissJay75
    MissJay75 Posts: 768 Member
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    "I am wondering how this relates to someone who jogs in place. I notice that my natural gait for this is to land on the ball of my foot and I barely lift my foot off the floor. I am pretty out of shape, and working on building some endurence"

    Anyone?

    I'm not sure this really relates to jogging in place but you can maintain the same form by landing on the forefoot like you are doing now. One thing you could do to get a better work out and "practice" so to speak is to lift your leg much higher. Try to get your knees up more and lift your foot off the ground more.

    Thank you, my goal is to work towards that so it's good to know my instincts are correct. I have some knee problems which are slowly getting better as I strenghten my leg muscles.
  • Smuterella
    Smuterella Posts: 1,623 Member
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    I have been advised not to run due to the impact it would have on a shoulder problem but I'm wondering if barefoot running (i.e. fore foot strike - noone should run barefoot in my part of London...) would alleviate this. Hmmmm.
  • Lizzy_Sunflower
    Lizzy_Sunflower Posts: 1,510 Member
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    I somehow missed this, I will put this on the reading list, Thanks.
    :drinker:
  • junyr
    junyr Posts: 416 Member
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    A good zero drop shoe will greatly help you run right. Zero drop means your foot is level as if you were barefoot. They make zero drop shoes that are not minimalist. They have plenty of cushion, but don't put your foot at a downward slope that all but forces you to heelstrike.

    Personally I run in minimalist shoes, vibram vff's or merrell trailsports.
  • junyr
    junyr Posts: 416 Member
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    If you run right there is far less impact than everyone tends to think.
  • carolinagirl7
    carolinagirl7 Posts: 435 Member
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    bump for later. I want to progress into running at some point. I am concerned when I hear of the number of runners that are injured. Since exercise and calorie burning are vital to my weight loss and overall health, I do not want to risk running wrong and injury just to be a bit faster. This looks like a great tool to get me started with the right techniques to both run and not injure myself. I am hopeful to find a running group when my endurance builds. Thanks for posting.
  • upwiththesun
    upwiththesun Posts: 51
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    Great book, I have read it, but I won't go around telling runner's they are running wrong. To each their own.
  • junyr
    junyr Posts: 416 Member
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    The following link is to youtube. It's a video posted by merrell on their cushioned zero drop shoes... They explain, show cutaways, and talk about what it is.

    I prefer less cushion, I love the roadfeel and have been minimalist runnign for 2 years or so.

    The important thing is that you're out doing something, but please do research proper form and GIVE YOURSELF REST DAYS to recover from your run especially if you're just starting out. YOur body needs to recover.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYh8aqFjx7A&feature=youtu.be

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