Bob Harper was WRONG last night about Soy

pettmybunny

Dang... And edamame is one of my favorite snacks! lol

I'm still eatin' it :laugh:

Phoenixflame

Jillian Michaels gave a really logical reason to stay away from soy--yeah, our bodies can handle a lot of crap we put in it, so in a perfect world moderate amounts of soy wouldn't be THAT bad. But in fact, soy is in a huge amount of the foods we eat. It's used in a billion products. So we are already consuming quite a bit--we don't need any more.

And tempeh is fermented, like miso, so it is healthier than, say, tofu.

But I'm anti-soy in general. For one, I realized that it does not agree with me. It makes me bloat.

SHBoss1673

I have to argue with you on one thing Banks, while the Japanese may not eat as much soy as is often claimed, the Indonesians, Indians, Vietnamese, Laotians, Javanese, and the rest of East Asia do (Japan being an island tends to get a large amount of its agricultural products from the sea, as you would expect from an island nation). It has long been a staple of Buddhists in lieu of meat and so the higher the percentage of strict Buddhists, the more common the use of soy products. Further, in Java the eating of tempeh is so common that it is often regionally referred to as "Javanese Meat." But there are definitely some countries where soy products are a staple and their regular use has not caused issue.

Note that there is a big difference between regular use, and overuse as many vegans do. Eating a soy burger, topped with soy cheese on bread with soy nuts in it, and chasing it with a big glass of soy milk is bad for you, no question. However having some tofu with a salad every day I personally believe will not harm you. The evidence simply is not there in countries where soy is eaten as a protein staple.

Further the studies so far about the phytoestrogens (to my knowledge) have yet to show any conclusive evidence one way or another that there is an effect on adult males. The last I read, the main focus of those concerns was on developing infants and the overuse of soy-based formulas - especially on developing boys.

That's why soy formula should only be used as a very last resort when all other alternatives fail.

The rest I won't argue about, you're spot on

The us consumes more soy per capita then any other nation, 25 million tons total, China consumes 50 million tons, but has almost 5 times as many people so that means they consume less then 1/2 per capita, and they have a much higher rate of fermented soy to unfermented (which is the main consumption in the US), fermented soy gets rid of the phytic acid problem, making it somewhat healthier to eat (although the estrogen levels are still there). India isn't even close per capita, consuming 11 million tons and having 1.1 billion people (the US has about 300 million, china has about 1.4 billion). Japan consumes 4.4 million tons, and they have 127 million people, so they aren't even in the ballpark.

So as you can see, we (the US) DO consume far more soy then any other country, per capita. Because all our processed foods are loaded with it. Face it, we have a soy problem.

AJCM

My Naturopathic Doctor (who is Vietnamese, trained in China, UK, and US) says that, in general, as North Americans, or of European descent, we do not have the sufficient enzymes to deal with it - that is why Asians have an easier time digesting/processing it.
:flowerforyou:

weaklink109

I just reviewed all the posts about soy and learned a few things. Now, can someone enlighten me as to who the heck "Bob Harper" is? At first I thought he was someone who posted, but it appears he must be on tv in some capacity, but I was wondering where. Just curious.

ivykivy

I was amazed that my tuna in water contained soy. I've been debating whether to stop eating it or not since I do have a thyroid problem. But it is cheap and handy so I try to eat no more than 2 or3 cans a week. I might have to switch though.

chrissyh

I just reviewed all the posts about soy and learned a few things. Now, can someone enlighten me as to who the heck "Bob Harper" is? At first I thought he was someone who posted, but it appears he must be on tv in some capacity, but I was wondering where. Just curious.

He's one of the two trainers on Biggest loser on NBC

chrissyh

I was amazed that my tuna in water contained soy. I've been debating whether to stop eating it or not since I do have a thyroid problem. But it is cheap and handy so I try to eat no more than 2 or3 cans a week. I might have to switch though.

In moderation you're ok - I wouldn't imagine there's that much in the tuna....maybe I am wrong

RachVR6

I was amazed that my tuna in water contained soy. I've been debating whether to stop eating it or not since I do have a thyroid problem. But it is cheap and handy so I try to eat no more than 2 or3 cans a week. I might have to switch though.

In moderation you're ok - I wouldn't imagine there's that much in the tuna....maybe I am wrong

I eat tuna in moderation, because it's higher in mercury than many types of fish...and I think it tastes gross. :laugh:

chellebelle315

there's soy in my tuna??? I'm going to go read its label again!!! craziness!!!!

Here's one of the things I love about MFP...it sparks my curiosity and LEARN things!!!

I had no idea, because I had never bothered to question, that maybe soy protein isn't the best option for me. i saw a thread about it a few months ago and did some research. I had no idea some of the issues concerning soy, and now I'm a little more educated, and can look for it in the labels on the foods I buy.

I guess my point is message boards are a great place for an exchange of ideas and thoughts, and a fabulous place to vent or get a little support. There's no reason to take anything anyone says at face value. If you're here you're already online. google (or your favorite search engine) is your friend. If you question something someone posts, google....read...learn...decide for yourself.

I still love edamame, and I don't feel bad about eating it...and I like tofu from time to time, but I definitely switched to whey protein for a protein boost in my smoothies, and I read the labels a little closer on the premade stuff I buy....I refuse to make my own crackers damnit.

and as always....thanks Boss, I love your posts....even if I don't agree I always find something to motivate me or learn something more to research.

I can't help it...I like Bob better than Jillian...I'm not a huge TBL fan, but (no one throw stuff at me) Jillian kind of scares the hell out of me....I know I'd punch her, and then she'd beat the crap out of me. She's a little too confrontational for me. However, I saw her on Rachel Ray yesterday, and she was very cool...outside the gym.

MTGirl

I can't help it...I like Bob better than Jillian...I'm not a huge TBL fan, but (no one throw stuff at me) Jillian kind of scares the hell out of me....I know I'd punch her, and then she'd beat the crap out of me. She's a little too confrontational for me. However, I saw her on Rachel Ray yesterday, and she was very cool...outside the gym.

That is the one reason I would never even consider trying to go on the Biggest Loser. My luck I'd get her for a trainer!! Probably it's the very thing I need - but she scares the crap out of me :laugh:

hiddensecant

I vote for moderation. People can suffer effects from excess dairy as much as they can excess soy or excess meat. All have health benefits and all have potential dangers for taking in excess.

Eat a wide variety of foods. If more than 50% of your diet is composed of one food, you're probably gonna be bitten by the excess bug.

slieber

2nd, when you go on public television and display yourself as an expert in nutrition, you open yourself up to public scrutiny, Bob has done this, people take his words for fact on the subject of nutrition, this isn't a personal attack on him as a person, it's a critisism of his methods and facts, and a questioning of his overall knowledge on the subject. I stand by every word of it.

OH! Was it there? I thought it was another poster being flamed. LOL! Sorry!

kel9680

I was amazed that my tuna in water contained soy. I've been debating whether to stop eating it or not since I do have a thyroid problem. But it is cheap and handy so I try to eat no more than 2 or3 cans a week. I might have to switch though.

I just saw that today, i was reading the tuna can and it said contains soy, but it wasnt in the ingredients list. why is there soy in my tuna, what is the point of this, and is it all tuna? i had bumblebee??

hmo4

Dang Banks, do ya gotta spoil it??? I just got into soy milk with my whey shakes and LOVE it. Also in my cereal. Thought I was making a health change and boom-blows up in my face.
Actually guys, I appreciate all the info.:happy: I'll finish the carton and be done. Don't know what to eat these days...:grumble:

hiddensecant

Dang Banks, do ya gotta spoil it??? I just got into soy milk with my whey shakes and LOVE it. Also in my cereal. Thought I was making a health change and boom-blows up in my face.
Actually guys, I appreciate all the info.:happy: I'll finish the carton and be done. Don't know what to eat these days...:grumble:

Whey has pretty decent anti-estrogen properties ... so does broccoli, carrots, leafy greans, citrus fruits, berries, and even quite a few spices (ginger, oregano, thyme ...). So balance and moderation!

mrsyac2

We (the US) consume more of everything compared to other countries which is why our country is OBESE compared to other countries--

How about people leave the dairy stuff alone you don't need it you can get your calcium from other things- People are the ONLY Mammals that continue to drink milk after being a child- We don't need it- Leave it alone-

hiddensecant

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

Dave198lbs

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

you make a good point

BUT for men...testosterone is essential to muscle repair and growth..and other things that are very important to men...

so for men...why on earth would we take anything in any amount that may reduce our testosterone?

for women...it is different,,,,,

Men....should avoid it,,,,there is no moderation argument on this one,,at least not for me

mrsyac2

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

who honestly drinks 8-11 cups of milk a day whether it is soy or cow?

hiddensecant

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

who honestly drinks 8-11 cups of milk a day whether it is soy or cow?

My point exactly. Most barely have a splash with cereal.

SHBoss1673

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

What study? I didn't even mention a specific study.

GIBride01

And this is why I stick with moderation. A few years ago you could have probably come on this site and found who knows how many threads about how wonderful soy is and we should all be living on it. And guess what, in a few years, I will bet some cash that there will be another study that says once again, soy is going to save the world. Studys are funded by someone people...lots of times the companies/corporations trying to further their products. Doesn't make them non-legit, but worthy of a little scrutiny. For some reason I have yet to understand, we need to have a nutritionaly "good" guy and "bad" guy to be happy in this country. If fat isin't the bad guy, then its carbs, if it isin't carbs its genetically modified foods, if its not GM its high fructose corn syrup or ~gasp~ unclean foods. Why do we feel the need to make this so darn complicated?:noway:

aymie24

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

What study? I didn't even mention a specific study.

Good point. You didn't mention any reliable references for your claims. Thanks for reminding everyone, so now everyone please check these things out for yourselves.

The human research on soy is limited at best, and that in and of itself makes me slightly suspect but not enough to avoid it.

The internet is a wonderful place to find "information" to back up any claim. There are a lot of opinions floating around. Form your own by looking at the actual information that is available.

msarro

7) And scariest for men who are activly trying to have children or gain muscle mass; soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogen, which acts the same way as regular estrogen in the body. This both blocks testosterone production (one of the main hormones used for building muscle), and lowers sperm count among adult males.

This study used 56g of soy protein per day (think 8-11 cups of soy milk) ... it reduced serum testosterone levels by 4%.

This kinda reminds me of that thread about anti-splenda research.

who honestly drinks 8-11 cups of milk a day whether it is soy or cow?

You should have met me as a teenager, lol. A gallon of milk a day!

sarabear

3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.




That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!

sarabear

So what is your suggestion for people like me that live on Soy because I can't have dairy. I haven't been able to have it since I was a newborn and have been using soy products all my life.


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Have you tried hormone free dairy, I couldn't have it either until I started buying Burbach milk, free range, free of hormones and antibiotics. It even comes in a glass bottle, you pay a deposit and return it when you go to get a new one.

SHBoss1673

3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.




That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!

True enough, agenda's abound in our great nation. I am not a conspricy theorist in general, but I do subscribe to the believe that lobbyists should be outlawed, and I mean ALL lobbyists. Make them go through the same channels as us "normal" citizens!

aymie24

3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.




That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!

True enough, agenda's abound in our great nation. I am not a conspricy theorist in general, but I do subscribe to the believe that lobbyists should be outlawed, and I mean ALL lobbyists. Make them go through the same channels as us "normal" citizens!

LOL, you mean we actually have a channel???

SHBoss1673

3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.




That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!

True enough, agenda's abound in our great nation. I am not a conspricy theorist in general, but I do subscribe to the believe that lobbyists should be outlawed, and I mean ALL lobbyists. Make them go through the same channels as us "normal" citizens!

LOL, you mean we actually have a channel???

HA! How do you think I feel, I live in Massachusetts, and have to deal with our good friends Mr. Kerry and Mr. Kennedy! Their offices barely even take phone calls, never mind do anything about it! It baffles me who keeps voting these people in office! Sorry, no politics, I know, I'll shut up now.