Bob Harper was WRONG last night about Soy
Replies
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3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.
That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!
That's actually true. The FDA tends to be all over the place, and a lot of their lists contradict themselves. For a humorous example, check out stevia, which is considered both unsafe and safe by the FDA.0 -
we nothing but Pawns in the chess game of Big Government0
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Spent some time living in Canton and Bourne myself...my mom lives in Sandwich and works in Boston for Dept. of Homeland Security....I feel for you, really! Of course here in Michigan we have Granholm in bed with the big three AND the UAW, talk about a mix and the many corrupt and criminal mayors of Detroit....sweet land of liberty....0
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Spent some time living in Canton and Bourne myself...my mom lives in Sandwich and works in Boston for Dept. of Homeland Security....I feel for you, really! Of course here in Michigan we have Granholm in bed with the big three AND the UAW, talk about a mix and the many corrupt and criminal mayors of Detroit....sweet land of liberty....
I have family in Sandwich too! :laugh:0 -
Spent some time living in Canton and Bourne myself...my mom lives in Sandwich and works in Boston for Dept. of Homeland Security....I feel for you, really! Of course here in Michigan we have Granholm in bed with the big three AND the UAW, talk about a mix and the many corrupt and criminal mayors of Detroit....sweet land of liberty....
I have family in Sandwich too! :laugh:
I like a sandwich now and then ...watch that mayo though0 -
Spent some time living in Canton and Bourne myself...my mom lives in Sandwich and works in Boston for Dept. of Homeland Security....I feel for you, really! Of course here in Michigan we have Granholm in bed with the big three AND the UAW, talk about a mix and the many corrupt and criminal mayors of Detroit....sweet land of liberty....
Cape chick huh? Or close enough anyway. My SIL has a house in Falmouth, but I'm on the North Shore, Too much traffic on the south (too much everywhere in MA these days...) and I grew up on the North Shore so...0 -
3) The American Heart Association (AHA) which previously endorsed the FDA's addition of Soy in 2000 to the "Heart Healthy" food products for lowering the chance of Coronary Artery Disease, has recently concluded it's own study on soy, and requested the FDA PULL soy from the list. The FDA has, as yet, failed to act on the recommendation by the country's leading expert foundation on the heart.
That is because they are making money off of it! Don't get me on my soap box about the government and what they say is good for americans, soy, vaccines etc..................this list is too long!
True enough, agenda's abound in our great nation. I am not a conspricy theorist in general, but I do subscribe to the believe that lobbyists should be outlawed, and I mean ALL lobbyists. Make them go through the same channels as us "normal" citizens!
Ack..lobbyists...I love the fact that the fast food companies have lobbyists..I mean really, why does Micky-D's need a person or persons going to congress...what exactly are they trying to get? The whole concept disturbs me. Agreed...do away with them, and take a significant chunk of DC with em.0 -
Spent some time living in Canton and Bourne myself...my mom lives in Sandwich and works in Boston for Dept. of Homeland Security....I feel for you, really! Of course here in Michigan we have Granholm in bed with the big three AND the UAW, talk about a mix and the many corrupt and criminal mayors of Detroit....sweet land of liberty....
Cape chick huh? Or close enough anyway. My SIL has a house in Falmouth, but I'm on the North Shore, Too much traffic on the south (too much everywhere in MA these days...) and I grew up on the North Shore so...
I should have been more specific...I spent two brief periods in between hubby's duty stations living there...couldn't do it long term, for many reasons. Going to visit this summer...not at all looking forward to cape traffic, planning it so that we get there on a Monday night, and then once we are over the bridge, we are staying put until we leave. Where we live now, traffic only happens if there's a really bad accident, lol. We're at least 30 miles from an Interstate, and I love it!0 -
My sister is allergic to soy and I've always reacted suspiciously to it (numb lips) so it's not something I've had much of but now that I've been expanding my health choices it's good to have all this information. I wouldn't have thought to wonder whether soy was safe or not really. For the past few years all I've heard is that it's healthy, healthy, healthy.
I've always been told repeatedly that dairy is bad, bad, bad.
And I'm allergic to nuts...
so this thread was actually quite helpful in providing some ideas for calcium substitutes but really I think people like myself are stuck with supplements since alternative calcium sources are usually too low in calcium to be beneficial.
One thing I do wonder about... I keep hearing moderation is key... but isn't it true at some point in history men were eating pretty much the same foods every day (I'm talking before they figured out how to farm, etc)? I wonder what changed ... or if anything did change. I wonder if one could today have a diet consisting only of food that can be found within their region and still be 'healthy'. But of course someones going to say they had shorter lives but how do we really know? Obviously it wasn't so tragic since we still exist.
And that's what this thread did to my head. Good work guys. :happy:0 -
the moderation argument is also completely over blown and used as an excuse in many circumstances
moderation is great for MOST things...but to use it for everything is absurd ......to put it nicely
there is no moderation argument for me when it comes to HFCS...I try hard to avoid it
I do not try to moderate crap of any kind
the moderation crowd is usally the "don't deprive" yourself crowd.....a bunch of crap to have an excuse to eat junk0 -
the moderation argument is also completely over blown and used as an excuse in many circumstances
moderation is great for MOST things...but to use it for everything is absurd ......to put it nicely
there is no moderation argument for me when it comes to HFCS...I try hard to avoid it
I do not try to moderate crap of any kind
the moderation crowd is usally the "don't deprive" yourself crowd.....a bunch of crap to have an excuse to eat junk
Hmm... I think if you want to eat junk food, eat junk food but be aware of what it is.
Not everyone is going to make the same life choices.
My pondering is could one exist on the same meal every single day without ill health side effects?0 -
the moderation argument is also completely over blown and used as an excuse in many circumstances
moderation is great for MOST things...but to use it for everything is absurd ......to put it nicely
there is no moderation argument for me when it comes to HFCS...I try hard to avoid it
I do not try to moderate crap of any kind
the moderation crowd is usally the "don't deprive" yourself crowd.....a bunch of crap to have an excuse to eat junk
Hmm... I think if you want to eat junk food, eat junk food but be aware of what it is.
Not everyone is going to make the same life choices.
My pondering is could one exist on the same meal every single day without ill health side effects?
depends on what it is
is boredom of eating the same thing an ill side effect?
if you ate the same complexand simple carb..the same fat.the same protein,,,,you could prolly live along time until you ate your hand out of boredom0 -
First off I do not wish to offend anyone.....So what is your suggestion for people like me that live on Soy because I can't have dairy. I haven't been able to have it since I was a newborn and have been using soy products all my life.
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Have you tried hormone free dairy, I couldn't have it either until I started buying Burbach milk, free range, free of hormones and antibiotics. It even comes in a glass bottle, you pay a deposit and return it when you go to get a new one.
Many consumers will buy anything that the food industry markets as healthy or "animal" healthy. Unless you have gone through the industry, and as someone who has. Dont believe everything you hear, it is merely a marketing ploy.
"free range" merely means that they have a 2 ft wide door that they can go out if they want to or the animals are outside. Being outside is even worse than being in close quarters. They have access to diseased wild animals as well as insects.
I also had the pleasure of meeting with the founder and CEO of a designer egg company and he flat out admitted all these designer products are just a marketing ploy. Such as omega 3 enhanced eggs....there is nothing proven about how much you actually need. SO the company just puts in a little smidgen, says they are great for you and BOOM you now have a market for a health food.
ANother example is antibiotic free and hormone free chicken...I interned with a vet at the largest chick producer in the United States and they market that they are "antibiotic and hormone free" when in actuality there isnt any, nor has there been hormones added to your chicken or antibiotics that will carry through to the muscle. But since they say hormone/antibiotiv free, people think that other brands do add those things
Now this is not the case for the dairy industry as they are allowed legally to use some amount of hormones to increase milk production.
My point being people DONT believe everything you hear/see on tv or through any media outlet. Be AWARE of marketing. People who are dieting and trying to live a healthy lifestyle are especially suseptible to these marketing ploys.0 -
First off I do not wish to offend anyone.....So what is your suggestion for people like me that live on Soy because I can't have dairy. I haven't been able to have it since I was a newborn and have been using soy products all my life.
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Online Calorie Counter
Have you tried hormone free dairy, I couldn't have it either until I started buying Burbach milk, free range, free of hormones and antibiotics. It even comes in a glass bottle, you pay a deposit and return it when you go to get a new one.
Many consumers will buy anything that the food industry markets as healthy or "animal" healthy. Unless you have gone through the industry, and as someone who has. Dont believe everything you hear, it is merely a marketing ploy.
"free range" merely means that they have a 2 ft wide door that they can go out if they want to or the animals are outside. Being outside is even worse than being in close quarters. They have access to diseased wild animals as well as insects.
I also had the pleasure of meeting with the founder and CEO of a designer egg company and he flat out admitted all these designer products are just a marketing ploy. Such as omega 3 enhanced eggs....there is nothing proven about how much you actually need. SO the company just puts in a little smidgen, says they are great for you and BOOM you now have a market for a health food.
ANother example is antibiotic free and hormone free chicken...I interned with a vet at the largest chick producer in the United States and they market that they are "antibiotic and hormone free" when in actuality there isnt any, nor has there been hormones added to your chicken or antibiotics that will carry through to the muscle. But since they say hormone/antibiotiv free, people think that other brands do add those things
Now this is not the case for the dairy industry as they are allowed legally to use some amount of hormones to increase milk production.
My point being people DONT believe everything you hear/see on tv or through any media outlet. Be AWARE of marketing. People who are dieting and trying to live a healthy lifestyle are especially suseptible to these marketing ploys.
Thank you!!!! I *loved* (loathed) how EVERYTHING in the grocery store said "Trans fat free" after reports on how horrible trans fats are started surfacing. Much of it never had trans fats to begin with but suddenly everyone was making it sound like they had "improved" their product to benefit consumers.
You are dead on about the hormone/antibiotic free chicken, I've had people actually challenge me on that statement. People will believe anything they see in mass media.
Also, you are 100% correct about eggs. I don't personally buy gorcery store eggs, have too many farmer friends and co workers to need to, but there is no justification in the price of those "designer eggs" and their heavy plastic, protective cartons.
I do buy hormone free meat that is fed feed grown by the farmer and also checmical free. I also buy hormone free milk but milk in my house is a garnish. I don't believe in relying on another mammal's milk for nutrition. But I am one of those "freaks" still nursing an almost 2 year old...call me crazy, I just think she'll thrive better on human milk, lol.0 -
the moderation crowd is usally the "don't deprive" yourself crowd.....a bunch of crap to have an excuse to eat junk
Ok, just an bit of education here....I am a longtime member of the moderation crowd. I make my own breads, peanut butter, hummus, ketchup, salad dressing.....AND cleaning products, among others. I buy local eggs and beef direct so I know what I am getting..antibiotic free and free range. I buy produce seasonally and locally whenever possible - when I can't grow it. I limit the use of any food chemically altered in any way and have used real sugar and real butter...even when trying to drop some weight. I have been 'clean eating' long before it was a catch phrase. So maybe when someone says moderation, what they mean is moderation....not here we go crap free for all. But I certianly will not jump on someone for having some Skinny Cow in the fridge, have had some in my fridge a time or two. Moderation can mean its ok to have the soy milk, or chocolate cake, or steak or real butter, or even Cool Whip....My 2 cents.0 -
Many consumers will buy anything that the food industry markets as healthy or "animal" healthy. Unless you have gone through the industry, and as someone who has. Dont believe everything you hear, it is merely a marketing ploy.
"free range" merely means that they have a 2 ft wide door that they can go out if they want to or the animals are outside. Being outside is even worse than being in close quarters. They have access to diseased wild animals as well as insects.
I also had the pleasure of meeting with the founder and CEO of a designer egg company and he flat out admitted all these designer products are just a marketing ploy. Such as omega 3 enhanced eggs....there is nothing proven about how much you actually need. SO the company just puts in a little smidgen, says they are great for you and BOOM you now have a market for a health food.
ANother example is antibiotic free and hormone free chicken...I interned with a vet at the largest chick producer in the United States and they market that they are "antibiotic and hormone free" when in actuality there isnt any, nor has there been hormones added to your chicken or antibiotics that will carry through to the muscle. But since they say hormone/antibiotiv free, people think that other brands do add those things
Now this is not the case for the dairy industry as they are allowed legally to use some amount of hormones to increase milk production.
My point being people DONT believe everything you hear/see on tv or through any media outlet. Be AWARE of marketing. People who are dieting and trying to live a healthy lifestyle are especially suseptible to these marketing ploys.
First off, 'free range' doesn't mean that they go outside, it just means that they are not in cages. They can be free range and never see the light of day.
Secondly, every single bite of livestock feed contains growth hormones and antibiotics, those things don't need to be administered directly by a vet. I have been around plenty of livestock feed, and that is how the growth hormones and antibiotics are given to livestock. Of course a poultry farmer isn't going around administering hormones and antibiotics to tens of thousands of individual chickens. Those that advertise that they are drug free purchase feed that has not had drugs added to it.
Thirdly, the absolute WORST antibiotic, pesticide, insecticide, growth hormone meat that you can eat is pork. Pigs are loaded to the hilt with all of it. To imply that the dairy industry is the only one guilty of this practice, and to downplay it by making the statement that they 'use some amount of hormones' is what is being irresponsible. They are absolutely loaded with them, or we would not be getting these animals to slaughter weight within a few months - it would take years for them to gain that amount of weight naturally.
I live in a rural area, and sometimes see a veterinarian who treats local livestock. I remember how livid he was one night when we were discussing Baytril (enrofloxacin) for a respiratory infection for one of my animals, and how the Canadian government had approved it's usage for livestock without having any clue of the long term affects on humans needing it's sister antibiotic ciprofloxacin.
I guess we'll find out after a decade, of children getting small dosages of enrofloxacin in every single mouthful of meat and dairy,what the long term affects will be to their tolerance for one of the most important antibiotics that we have today. I guess those children who don't pull through will be considered 'necessary losses' compared to the billions upon billions of dollars the meat/dairy industry will make in that same amount of time.
If people are going to eat meat, poultry, or dairy, it really is going to be a huge benefit to you to seek out organic products without drugs. Even if you have to pay more for it, just eat less of it, but it will be worth every single penny in the long run.
As per Wikipedia:
'In September 2005, the FDA withdrew approval of Baytril for use in water to treat flocks of poultry, as this practice was noted to promote the evolution of fluoroquinolone-resistant strains of the bacterium Campylobacter, a human pathogen.'0 -
Here is a good website with feed products for livestock that list what types of ingredients are found in them, including hormones and antibiotics...
Cattle
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/90-feed-additives
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/147-feed-additives
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/feed-milk-additives/1864-bovatec-91.html
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/feed-milk-additives/1672-pennox-50-otc.html
Poultry
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/234-feed-additives
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/feed-milk-additives/1672-pennox-50-otc.html
Swine
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/179-feed-additives
http://www.livestockconcepts.com/feed-milk-additives/1674-lincomix-20.html0 -
Maybe you can answer something for me Banks.... when my aunt had breast cancer, she was told by her doc not to eat any soy because it may increase the risk of the cancer coming back, something about estrogen....
Does anyone know anything about this? I can't eat any legumes, so I find it difficult to get protein from anything but animal products... I thought soy was a good alternative until I read your list.....:ohwell:0 -
Maybe you can answer something for me Banks.... when my aunt had breast cancer, she was told by her doc not to eat any soy because it may increase the risk of the cancer coming back, something about estrogen....
Does anyone know anything about this? I can't eat any legumes, so I find it difficult to get protein from anything but animal products... I thought soy was a good alternative until I read your list.....:ohwell:
soy has phtoestrogens...they can interfere with testosterone and complicate estorgen (supposedly)
soy is so over rated
it became extremely popular some years ago with the red meat scares and the vegans (not all vegans so spare me your rath)
I am no expert but soy is just another food
it is not an answer to the protein requirements and because somne Asian countries eat alot of it does not mean they are experts either
soy for men is really not suggested by mens muscle and fitness mags but they arent exactly neutral either
read up on it...just make sure your source isnt in the soy industry0 -
My sister is allergic to soy and I've always reacted suspiciously to it (numb lips) so it's not something I've had much of but now that I've been expanding my health choices it's good to have all this information. I wouldn't have thought to wonder whether soy was safe or not really. For the past few years all I've heard is that it's healthy, healthy, healthy.
I've always been told repeatedly that dairy is bad, bad, bad.
And I'm allergic to nuts...
so this thread was actually quite helpful in providing some ideas for calcium substitutes but really I think people like myself are stuck with supplements since alternative calcium sources are usually too low in calcium to be beneficial.
One thing I do wonder about... I keep hearing moderation is key... but isn't it true at some point in history men were eating pretty much the same foods every day (I'm talking before they figured out how to farm, etc)? I wonder what changed ... or if anything did change. I wonder if one could today have a diet consisting only of food that can be found within their region and still be 'healthy'. But of course someones going to say they had shorter lives but how do we really know? Obviously it wasn't so tragic since we still exist.
And that's what this thread did to my head. Good work guys. :happy:
My sister is allergic to soy too!!!! Her eyeballs look like they're about to blow out of her head when she eats it. I totally get the whole numb/tingling lips when I eat it as well. My lips will plump up like I've had some injections every now and then when I eat it too. Yikes!0 -
Nuts are the #1 food allergen but it's not unhealthy unless you eat massive amounts of it. All soy studies concluding "potenital" unfavorable results consisted of over double the average consumption, which is excessive even in Asian nations.
So if you're allergic, stay away. If it doesn't sit well, don't drink it. If you do eat/drink it and feel fine, then that's ok too. But it is good to be aware of what excessive use can do and what exactly qualifies as excessive according to your current BMI and/or weight goals. The same can be said with protein in general.
In any case, here are other studies I found on pubmed.org.
Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11352776
Neurobehavioral effects of dietary soy phytoestrogens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11836067
Soyfoods, soybean isoflavones, and bone health: a brief overview. While research has been favorable on this topic, further research is requred.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10757817
Soyfoods, isoflavones and risk of colonic cancer: a review of the in vitro and in vivo data.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10384821
Effect of protein source and resistance training on body composition and sex hormones.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908338
Consumption of fat-free fluid milk after resistance exercise promotes greater lean mass accretion than does consumption of soy or carbohydrate in young, novice, male weightlifters. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684208 --while milk was found to be more effective in this study, it should be noted that soy also had a significant increase in lean mass accretion ... however, there were no differences in strength.0 -
I just reviewed all the posts about soy and learned a few things. Now, can someone enlighten me as to who the heck "Bob Harper" is? At first I thought he was someone who posted, but it appears he must be on tv in some capacity, but I was wondering where. Just curious.
He's one of the two trainers on Biggest loser on NBC
Thanks for answering my question. I seldom watch network tv, so I am not familiar with who is on that show. From all the ads I have run across, I thougnt this Jillian woman ran the whole show by herself.0 -
I just reviewed all the posts about soy and learned a few things. Now, can someone enlighten me as to who the heck "Bob Harper" is? At first I thought he was someone who posted, but it appears he must be on tv in some capacity, but I was wondering where. Just curious.
He's one of the two trainers on Biggest loser on NBC
Thanks for answering my question. I seldom watch network tv, so I am not familiar with who is on that show. From all the ads I have run across, I thougnt this Jillian woman ran the whole show by herself.
Haha, had no idea who he was either.0 -
It didnt surprise me but it does piss me off.
And big Ron the dad? he thought olive oil has trans fat in it. After months on the show he doesnt know about that? The show should be ashamed he was so stupid
The misinformation on such a show is just absurd and is dangerous.
I have long been a foe of soy. It is not for men period and women should not rely on it for protein.
Calling soy protein the same as any other protein is another indication of how much wrong information is out there and sadly in here
The blind emphasis on calorie amounts and not on calorie quality is also driving me crazy.
Yet another thread this morning glorifying skinny cow becuase it is low calorie. Skinny cow (not the laughing cow) is chemical junk. But....since it is low cal...the blind masses are buying in bulk
Amen to that, people really need to read the small print on labels.0 -
Maybe you can answer something for me Banks.... when my aunt had breast cancer, she was told by her doc not to eat any soy because it may increase the risk of the cancer coming back, something about estrogen....
Does anyone know anything about this? I can't eat any legumes, so I find it difficult to get protein from anything but animal products... I thought soy was a good alternative until I read your list.....:ohwell:
So an alternative you should look into is almonds, they aren't legumes so (get tested first) you should be ok with them for protein. BUT be aware that most nuts aren't complete proteins, you can google complete proteins to see exactly what that mean, but it usually just means you need to combine them with some kind of fruit or veggie to complete the protein. Almond milk is also a good tasting alternative.
Remember, unfermented soy, besides having phytoestrogens, also contains phytic acid. Here is an exerpt from the article in OnFitness about the soy protein issues (REMEMBER, they are talking about UNfermented soy here).
Without going through the fermentation process, soy comes packed with an agent called phytic acid wihich binds together proteins and starches (as well as calcium and others) making it difficult for the body to absorb. Though this is the type of soy found in many protein shakes and nutrition bars. "The body just can't use it," states Daniel (she's a nutritional research doctor pinged to answer quesitons in this article). And despite what nutrition labels say about protein content, the truth is that much of that protein won't be absorbed, she adds. If the body cannot absorb this type of protein, then why do bodybuilders or time crunched business people regularly consume it? "Clever marketing" says Dr Dean.0 -
I find this discussion interesting...Just say that a food includes estrogen and people (mostly males) freak out...Anybody ever question the hormones and other body-altering properties of birth control pills...Don't mess with the manhood..haha!0
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Thanks!0
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Maybe you can answer something for me Banks.... when my aunt had breast cancer, she was told by her doc not to eat any soy because it may increase the risk of the cancer coming back, something about estrogen....
Didn't see this part answered....High levels of estrogen causes the increase of cells in the breast and uterus, including cancerous cells, so high levels of estrogen can lead to rapid growth of cancerous cells. So anyone with a history of breast cancer would be advised to limit any foods that have high levels of phytoestogen, like soy. Don't know how much dietary soy you would have to take to raise your body estrogen, haven't read that. But in the case of breast cancers, better safe than sorry.0 -
Bumping this.Thank you for the useful post.When I started watching what I was eating in June I started having soy milk with my cereal .At first I lost the first 8 pounds easy then I after that my metabllism was messsed up.Now I can see why SOY MILK.I stopped drinking soy milk last week and I have lost 1lb.Mind you I did not change anything form the begining up to now.Soy milk messed up my metabolism and I will not drink soy milk ever:explode: .0
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Bumping this.Thank you for the useful post.When I started watching what I was eating in June I started having soy milk with my cereal .At first I lost the first 8 pounds easy then I after that my metabllism was messsed up.Now I can see why SOY MILK.I stopped drinking soy milk last week and I have lost 1lb.Mind you I did not change anything form the begining up to now.Soy milk messed up my metabolism and I will not drink soy milk ever:explode: .
I quit drinking cow's milk, started drinking soy, and lost a lot of weight. What works for you may not work for someone else.0
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