Ugh, The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

busywaterbending

I have a confession to make>

fat people really really scare me.

What if they sit on me? One did when I was a kid and I passed out under her. True story. Fat people are scary. And it's so hard for them to get back up....

FitLink

What bothers me is that there are some kids out there that eat right and exercise, but are still "chunky" because they haven't reached puberty or their growth spurt yet. These kids get teased for their weight all the time. I understand the need for an organization that promotes acceptance, but why not acceptance in general not just for fat people? Acceptance for any and all differences, especially with kids.

Because lots of groups promote the acceptance of a particular trait. It's to raise awareness of just the things you mention here. There are groups who support equality for left handers (and the world really does put barriers in the way of left handers), gay people, black people, tall people, short people... They all advocate treating ALL people equally, but each highlights the problems their own group faces. NAAFA is the focus here because some people just discovered that this group, which has been around for over forty years, even exists, and are offended by it's very existence.

FitLink

I have a confession to make>

fat people really really scare me.

What if they sit on me? One did when I was a kid and I passed out under her. True story. Fat people are scary. And it's so hard for them to get back up....

I have a confession. Males really scare me. What if they overpower me? One did when I was twelve, and beat the crap out of me. True story. A teacher had to drive me home.

Can we make them all go away???

HonkyTonks

Ugh...I am done with this thread. The "Don't Blame Me" crowd will always look for excuses to their current condition. As long as it doesn't make them feel like they have any responsibility for their actions. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are responsible for the life you lead. I'm not advocating that fat kids be bullied. I'm asking for ACCOUNTABILITY. Yes, we all know skinny isn't always healthy, but I don't know what the fu*k healthy fat is!! If you are what is considered fat by the general population then eventually it will have some negative impact on your health.

To those of you who wish to point the finger at something else for your condition I say good luck! You are going to need it. There is no participation trophy for living life.


129021931756178550 by goldspursX3, on Flickr

What you've been doing is saying we should point and laugh and make fun of fat people, or yell at them or shame them or treat them differently. I don't think fat people are saying they aren't to blame for their problem. They are merely saying that the approach of discrimination and hate is not an effective one. As I said, none of the relentless teasing in high school about my weight helped me. It took a good support network (nice friends) and a job that made me happy to get me in a mental state that I was ready to care about my health and my life again.

zephyrionitis

I have no problem with fat people.
I have a problem with things like the NAAFA. I don't believe we should accept a lifestyle that is detrimental and kills almost 300,000 people a year. I have a problem with hambeasts.
It's saddening to think that people are getting so soft and buttmad about everything.

FitLink

Ugh...I am done with this thread. The "Don't Blame Me" crowd will always look for excuses to their current condition. As long as it doesn't make them feel like they have any responsibility for their actions. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are responsible for the life you lead. I'm not advocating that fat kids be bullied. I'm asking for ACCOUNTABILITY. Yes, we all know skinny isn't always healthy, but I don't know what the fu*k healthy fat is!! If you are what is considered fat by the general population then eventually it will have some negative impact on your health.

To those of you who wish to point the finger at something else for your condition I say good luck! You are going to need it. There is no participation trophy for living life.


129021931756178550 by goldspursX3, on Flickr

And you know what? I have to address this picture as well. I have to assume you think this proves something about Kirstie Alley. That she isn't taking responsibility for what you see as her health or some equally stupid thing. You know what? We really don't know anything about actors based on their roles. If we did, we'd have to reconcile that Kirstie played a "Fat Actress" AND she played a vulcan/romulan hybrid on Star Trek. But the fact is, she's an actress. She gets paid to be someone she's not. What's worse, this pic is from "I CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER." So the words on it were added by someone else, in an attempt to be funny. It's not something Kirstie said, it's something intended to be humorous by belittling someone. Should I assume that the cats also said the things on their pictures? Can I base my opinions of their fitness as a pet on the captions? Because Kirstie had as much control over the caption here as the cats did.

The picture was just another attack on people you don't approve of and think you have the right to control.

ArroganceInStep

The problem is (and my degree is in learning theory) that people misuse the word "negative reinforcement." It doesn't mean what you think it means, and it's NOT the opposite of positive reinforcement. That's negative punishment. And the words positive and negative are used in the same sense as they are in mathematics, NOT as a value judgement.

Positive reinforcement--The application of a desired stimulus in response to a desired behavior. Child gets to pick a book to be read to him when he gets ready for bed when told.

Negative reinforcement--The withdrawal of a desired stimulus in response to an undesirable behavior. Child is not allowed to play with a favorite toy because s/he bit her/his brother.

Positive punishment--The application of an undesirable stimulus in response to an undesired behavior. Child is spanked for running into the street.

Negative punishment--The withdrawal of a undesirable stimulus in response to a desired behavior. Child is not permitted to leave her/his room until s/he apologizes for biting her/his brother.

Psychologists have demonstrated that reinforcement, positive or negative, results in long-term behavior change, and punishment, positive or negative, stops immediate behavior, but leaves no lasting change.

Shame is definitely undesired and therefor falls into the "punishment" category. If you shame a child until he loses weight, that's negative punishment, and if you shame a child because he got fat, that's positive punishment. Either MIGHT result in a little temporary weight loss--short term. Neither will result in a permanent desirable change.

I didn't realize the discrepancy. Thank you and I'll try to use the proper terminology going forward.

FitLink

I have no problem with fat people.
I have a problem with things like the NAAFA. I don't believe we should accept a lifestyle that is detrimental and kills almost 300,000 people a year. I have a problem with hambeasts.
It's saddening to think that people are getting so soft and buttmad about everything.

They aren't asking you to accept any lifestyle. They are asking you to accept people, and no one's lifestyle is any of your business. And you're going to need to prove that being fat causes almost 300,000 deaths a year. And while your deciding that no one needs advocate for people whose lifestyle you don't approve of, consider your 300,000 number in light of some other numbers. 120,000 people in the US alone die every year from accidents. 37,000 commit suicide successfully--many times more people will attempt suicide and fail. 42,000 die from the FLU! The fact is, no one dies from obesity. People do die from obesity-related illnesses, but it isn't possible to predict who will get these illnesses based on weight. Many people get obesity-related illnesses who have never been obese, and not all obese people get obesity-related illnesses. Your 300,000 number is a statistic. Statistics have no meaning what-so-ever as applied to an individual. All they can say is, on average, what will happen. Lots of things are "detrimental" and we don't get so vitriole filled about people doing them. I ride a motorcycle. Last August me and my motorcycle were forced off the road by a drunk driver. I've got nerve damage on my left cheek (facial cheek) where my helmet impacted it. My face was swollen and covered in bruises for weeks. Had the same drunk run me off the road in my car, I likely would be uninjured in this instance. So am I to blame for my injuries because my lifestyle is that I ride a motorcycle rather than drive my car whenever the weather permits? Does the drunk get a free pass because my lifestyle is dangerous? There are several organizations that advocate for the rights of motorcyclists. Do you similarly disapprove of them because motorcycles are dangerous?

I think you're getting caught up in the word "acceptance." NAAFA dates to a time (1969) when that word made more sense than it might now. What they are advocating is non-discrimination.

FitLink

The problem is (and my degree is in learning theory) that people misuse the word "negative reinforcement." It doesn't mean what you think it means, and it's NOT the opposite of positive reinforcement. That's negative punishment. And the words positive and negative are used in the same sense as they are in mathematics, NOT as a value judgement.

Positive reinforcement--The application of a desired stimulus in response to a desired behavior. Child gets to pick a book to be read to him when he gets ready for bed when told.

Negative reinforcement--The withdrawal of a desired stimulus in response to an undesirable behavior. Child is not allowed to play with a favorite toy because s/he bit her/his brother.

Positive punishment--The application of an undesirable stimulus in response to an undesired behavior. Child is spanked for running into the street.

Negative punishment--The withdrawal of a undesirable stimulus in response to a desired behavior. Child is not permitted to leave her/his room until s/he apologizes for biting her/his brother.

Psychologists have demonstrated that reinforcement, positive or negative, results in long-term behavior change, and punishment, positive or negative, stops immediate behavior, but leaves no lasting change.

Shame is definitely undesired and therefor falls into the "punishment" category. If you shame a child until he loses weight, that's negative punishment, and if you shame a child because he got fat, that's positive punishment. Either MIGHT result in a little temporary weight loss--short term. Neither will result in a permanent desirable change.

I didn't realize the discrepancy. Thank you and I'll try to use the proper terminology going forward.

You are truly a gentleman. Your fiance is lucky.

And while the attraction used punishment (positive) rather than negative reinforcement, it would NOT effectively change behavior. Punishment has been proved not to work.

Scott

Hi guys, due to the number of MyFitnessPal guideline violations this thread has been locked. It may be deleted at any time. We appreciate your spirited argument and participation however, please keep the MFP guidelines in mind while posting!