Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet

Acg67

Just leaving this here

Post hoc analysis showed that at week 52 the scores on the POMS subscales of anger-hostility (P = .006), confusion-bewilderment (P = .02), and depression-dejection (P = .05) and the TMDS score (P = .001) were significantly lower in the LF group than in the LC group

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/169/20/1873#IOI90085F2

Sidesteal

Oh my.

Drunkadelic

CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK

so sorry... I couldn't resist.

RonSwanson66

GOOGLEY GOOBLEY GOOP, RESULTS TALK. GO GET THEM BEFORE YOU TALK ESE.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

yogamama30

I do know that I feel better when I eat less grains...and I also think that refined sugar is definitely not good, but I'm all about the everything in moderation lifestyle I don't think I could eat a strict Paleo diet.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

What is wrong with pizza? Cheese, tomatoes, vegetables, meat, and bread.

I can understand not finding a lot of nutritional value in a cupcake, but pizza?!

Is it the combination of the above products along with cooking it in a disc shape that suddenly makes it bad?

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Sidesteal

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Selenium, Manganese, phosphorous... are those beneficial?

Where do you draw the line and call something useless?

EDIT: Genuine question here on my part, I'm not intending to have a pissing match. Where do you draw the line at calling something nutritionally useless vs "good"?

Acg67

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Selenium, Manganese, phosphorous... are those beneficial?

Where do you draw the line and call something useless?

Typically the dough is also made with a bit of olive oil which people like to tout as a good fat, but guess that doesn't count

albinogorilla

I lost 40lbs eating Paleo, and not eating after 7pm............

Lets see who reads further...........

I NOW understand, after using this website that that weight loss was a result of inadvertantly lowering my caloric intake, by cutting out higher calorie foods, and by eating less meals than I had in the past. Personally, I dont put a whole lot of stock in all of these studies. I dont read them, I dont click on links. They are allegedly done somplace, by people that I dont know exist and then show up on the internet and in journals. The science of it, isn't important to me. I put a lot more stock in personal experimentation........."I ate this"............."I had a better workout".................."I didn't eat a certain number of hours before working out and was sluggish..........." Etc. Broscience...........maybe, might as well spit it out before someone else does.
Currently, I eat at a calorie deficit........trying to lose that last bit of meat off the middle.........I eat anything and everything, ice cream, pizza, cookies, pasta, mac and cheese, my homeade banana bread which is terrific even at 280 calories a slice. And, I continue to lose weight. If you are curious about paleo TRY IT! Curious about gluten free? TRY IT..........and watch your body and take notes. You know what goes in your mouth, and what that mirror and scale show you. Experiment, life lasts a long time, there are lots of chances to try it all out!

Todays science, was yesterdays science fiction, and who knows what it will be tomorrow. . . . .

Sidesteal

Typically the dough is also made with a bit of olive oil which people like to tout as a good fat, but guess that doesn't count

I noticed that back in February you ate some crackers. As a white person, I am offended. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to round up the trailer park so that collectively, we can put a stop to your racial insensitivity.

grinch031

haha ron oh how you miss the point. Who put the study together?

http://www.preventivemedicine.northwestern.edu/facultyprofiles/carnethon.htm

(Someone who has taken more than freshman-level chemistry).

haha let me ask you this, how come your studies are more valid than mine according to you?

Because I understand how to read beyond abstracts and can evaluate the methodology and it's applicability to the topic at hand.

This is what happens when you get an education.

Just curious what is your educational background?

Acg67

Typically the dough is also made with a bit of olive oil which people like to tout as a good fat, but guess that doesn't count

I noticed that back in February you ate some crackers. As a white person, I am offended. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to round up the trailer park so that collectively, we can put a stop to your racial insensitivity.

RonSwanson66

Just curious what is your educational background?

M.S. Mathematics. My thesis was on the topic of quantum topology.

RonSwanson66

Noticed you also have some big guns, bigger than the non paleo advocates. -cough cough-

And yet another reading comprehension failure. Why am I not surprised.

RonSwanson66

Today's word is "obtuse".

RonSwanson66

Noticed you also have some big guns, bigger than the non paleo advocates. -cough cough-

And yet another reading comprehension failure. Why am I not surprised.

Yes, but not on my part. Lets start here...
"I lost 40lbs eating Paleo, and not eating after 7pm............"

This is pretty pro paleo, then he continues to state he doesn't state he's against it, nor for it. SO he's neutral in the body of his message. So Professor, neutrality can be accomplished by +5-5= 0. That's the body of the subject, but first line is pro paleo... so the simple equation is +1+5-5=????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

ihateroses

Today's word is "obtuse".

:drinker:

Sidesteal

Would his appearance impact the quality of information he presents?

Acg67

Noticed you also have some big guns, bigger than the non paleo advocates. -cough cough-

And yet another reading comprehension failure. Why am I not surprised.

Yes, but not on my part. Lets start here...
"I lost 40lbs eating Paleo, and not eating after 7pm............"

This is pretty pro paleo, then he continues to state he doesn't state he's against it, nor for it. SO he's neutral in the body of his message. So Professor, neutrality can be accomplished by +5-5= 0. That's the body of the subject, but first line is pro paleo... so the simple equation is +1+5-5=????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

Sounds like every study you have posted thus far.

ETA: just received an email "I REALLY dislike that Swanson guy!!! Such a prick. No photo to prove he can walk the talk. " CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK

What does physique have to do with knowledge?

Natx83

:bigsmile:

I think the one aspect everyone agrees here, is that Paleo men died in their 30's, and that they did not die that soon because of their diet.

So... what can learn from their diet, that can be applied to modern humans that live well beyond 30 years?

Not much at all !

So instead of looking at the Paleo or any other era, in my opinion we should look at the human digestive system as a machine, and determine what type of Food the human digestive system is designed to consume.

Not an easy task, of course :huh:

Is there really an ultimate diet? I don't think so. There are too many variables. From genetics, thyroid issues, digestive issues, illness, blood issues... way too many factors to classify one diet as being superb.

I think the real key is exercise, increased activity level.

I think that yes, there is out there to be found an "ultimate diet" for humans.
Reason: if you look at the diet of different species of animals, they all have very specific, ideal diets that are optimal.
And they don't deviate from that diet. It is automatic for them.

We humans have distorted that diet, and now we don't know what that "original" one was !

Will we ever find that "ultimate diet"? Likely
Will humans follow that diet once found? Very unlikely :bigsmile:

Steak and 3 veg. Problems solved.

I dont understand why this Pu-239 dude is getting so worked up. Just relax dude. Maybe your diet is messing with you and giving you a hormone imbalance..

RonSwanson66

just received an email "I REALLY dislike that Swanson guy!!!

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

theoriginaljayne

Thought I'd come back to see how the thread had progressed...

Elizabeth_C34

Thought I'd come back to see how the thread had progressed...

Yeah, I pretty much did the same... oi.

AntWrig

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

What is wrong with pizza? Cheese, tomatoes, vegetables, meat, and bread.

I can understand not finding a lot of nutritional value in a cupcake, but pizza?!

Is it the combination of the above products along with cooking it in a disc shape that suddenly makes it bad?

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

I am going to act three years old.

Is this real life? I am done reading this thread. People take **** to the extreme.

funkycamper

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Selenium, Manganese, phosphorous... are those beneficial?

OK, while I limit my carbs, I still allow enough for some higher carb splurges because, well, I like them, I just don't do well eating them daily for various reasons. On Thursday, I had a great Italian dinner of seafood risotto, salad, garlic bread and a good Merlot and I bought a great loaf of cardamom bread at a bakery on Saturday which I have been enjoying a slice of each day. Also ate a sandwich on Saturday made on sourdough bread. So I'm not an anti-carb zealot.

At the same time, if people feel better, function better, eliminate or alleviate various problems eating no breads, pasta or pizza, I don't really care. If it works for them and they're happy, they can go for it.

That said, what nutrients do we need to eat grains in order to obtain? Per the National Institute of Health, we get those nutrients from the following sources:
*
Selenium
"Plant foods, such as vegetables, are the most common dietary sources of selenium. How much selenium is in the vegetables you eat depends on how much of the mineral was in the soil where the plants grew. Fish, shellfish, red meat, grains, eggs, chicken, liver, and garlic are all good sources of selenium. Meats produced from animals that ate grains or plants found in selenium-rich soil have higher levels of selenium. Brewer's yeast, wheat germ, and enriched breads are also good sources of selenium." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002414.htm

Manganese
"Manganese is a mineral that is found in several foods including nuts, legumes, seeds, tea, whole grains, and leafy green vegetables." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/182.html

Phosphorus
"The main food sources are the protein food groups of meat and milk. A meal plan that provides adequate amounts of calcium and protein also provides an adequate amount of phosphorus. Although whole-grain breads and cereals contain more phosphorus than cereals and breads made from refined flour, this is a storage form of phosphorus called phytin, which is not absorbed by humans. Fruits and vegetables contain only small amounts of phosphorus."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002424.htm

So, if they got it right, selenium is the only item you listed that is probably found in most pizza crust. Unless the pizza crust is made from whole grains (and I haven't ever seen that but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist), there would be no manganese unless the flour was enriched with it. And the phosphorous in grains is not absorbed by humans.

All of these nutrients are found in things like vegetables and meats so it's not necessary to eat grains to get them.

My question: What nutrients require us to eat grains in order to get them as they can't be obtained from other sources?

And don't say carbs as they can be easily obtained from vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. which are, I believe, all allowed on most paleo-style plans.

Acg67

All of these nutrients are found in things like vegetables and meats so it's not necessary to eat grains to get them.

My question: What nutrients require us to eat grains in order to get them as they can't be obtained from other sources?

And don't say carbs as they can be easily obtained from vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. which are, I believe, all allowed on most paleo-style plans.

I don't think anyone said that you need to eat grains, the topic at hand was the claim that the crust was nutritionally devoid, not if there were better sources for the nutrients in the crust. I would agree with you that there are better sources for the nutrients, but the crust still has nutrients in it

AntWrig

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Selenium, Manganese, phosphorous... are those beneficial?

OK, while I limit my carbs, I still allow enough for some higher carb splurges because, well, I like them, I just don't do well eating them daily for various reasons. On Thursday, I had a great Italian dinner of seafood risotto, salad, garlic bread and a good Merlot and I bought a great loaf of cardamom bread at a bakery on Saturday which I have been enjoying a slice of each day. Also ate a sandwich on Saturday made on sourdough bread. So I'm not an anti-carb zealot.

At the same time, if people feel better, function better, eliminate or alleviate various problems eating no breads, pasta or pizza, I don't really care. If it works for them and they're happy, they can go for it.

That said, what nutrients do we need to eat grains in order to obtain? Per the National Institute of Health, we get those nutrients from the following sources:
*
Selenium
"Plant foods, such as vegetables, are the most common dietary sources of selenium. How much selenium is in the vegetables you eat depends on how much of the mineral was in the soil where the plants grew. Fish, shellfish, red meat, grains, eggs, chicken, liver, and garlic are all good sources of selenium. Meats produced from animals that ate grains or plants found in selenium-rich soil have higher levels of selenium. Brewer's yeast, wheat germ, and enriched breads are also good sources of selenium." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002414.htm

Manganese
"Manganese is a mineral that is found in several foods including nuts, legumes, seeds, tea, whole grains, and leafy green vegetables." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/182.html

Phosphorus
"The main food sources are the protein food groups of meat and milk. A meal plan that provides adequate amounts of calcium and protein also provides an adequate amount of phosphorus. Although whole-grain breads and cereals contain more phosphorus than cereals and breads made from refined flour, this is a storage form of phosphorus called phytin, which is not absorbed by humans. Fruits and vegetables contain only small amounts of phosphorus."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002424.htm

So, if they got it right, selenium is the only item you listed that is probably found in most pizza crust. Unless the pizza crust is made from whole grains (and I haven't ever seen that but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist), there would be no manganese unless the flour was enriched with it. And the phosphorous in grains is not absorbed by humans.

All of these nutrients are found in things like vegetables and meats so it's not necessary to eat grains to get them.

My question: What nutrients require us to eat grains in order to get them as they can't be obtained from other sources?

And don't say carbs as they can be easily obtained from vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. which are, I believe, all allowed on most paleo-style plans.

Here is my problem with low-carb advocates. They all claim carbs are so bad, yet they require a refeed at some point to replenish glycogen levels. Especially if they engage in some form of exercise.

The battle should be against whole grains, not carbs as a whole.

grinch031

I said in that same paragraph that the toppings had some nutrients, but the crust is nutriently devoid.

Selenium, Manganese, phosphorous... are those beneficial?

OK, while I limit my carbs, I still allow enough for some higher carb splurges because, well, I like them, I just don't do well eating them daily for various reasons. On Thursday, I had a great Italian dinner of seafood risotto, salad, garlic bread and a good Merlot and I bought a great loaf of cardamom bread at a bakery on Saturday which I have been enjoying a slice of each day. Also ate a sandwich on Saturday made on sourdough bread. So I'm not an anti-carb zealot.

At the same time, if people feel better, function better, eliminate or alleviate various problems eating no breads, pasta or pizza, I don't really care. If it works for them and they're happy, they can go for it.

That said, what nutrients do we need to eat grains in order to obtain? Per the National Institute of Health, we get those nutrients from the following sources:
*
Selenium
"Plant foods, such as vegetables, are the most common dietary sources of selenium. How much selenium is in the vegetables you eat depends on how much of the mineral was in the soil where the plants grew. Fish, shellfish, red meat, grains, eggs, chicken, liver, and garlic are all good sources of selenium. Meats produced from animals that ate grains or plants found in selenium-rich soil have higher levels of selenium. Brewer's yeast, wheat germ, and enriched breads are also good sources of selenium." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002414.htm

Manganese
"Manganese is a mineral that is found in several foods including nuts, legumes, seeds, tea, whole grains, and leafy green vegetables." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/182.html

Phosphorus
"The main food sources are the protein food groups of meat and milk. A meal plan that provides adequate amounts of calcium and protein also provides an adequate amount of phosphorus. Although whole-grain breads and cereals contain more phosphorus than cereals and breads made from refined flour, this is a storage form of phosphorus called phytin, which is not absorbed by humans. Fruits and vegetables contain only small amounts of phosphorus."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002424.htm

So, if they got it right, selenium is the only item you listed that is probably found in most pizza crust. Unless the pizza crust is made from whole grains (and I haven't ever seen that but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist), there would be no manganese unless the flour was enriched with it. And the phosphorous in grains is not absorbed by humans.

All of these nutrients are found in things like vegetables and meats so it's not necessary to eat grains to get them.

My question: What nutrients require us to eat grains in order to get them as they can't be obtained from other sources?

And don't say carbs as they can be easily obtained from vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. which are, I believe, all allowed on most paleo-style plans.

Here is my problem with low-carb advocates. They all claim carbs are so bad, yet they require a refeed at some point to replenish glycogen levels. Especially if they engage in some form of exercise.

The battle should be against whole grains, not carbs as a whole.

Its not just whole grains, most of us think sugar is bad as well. If carbs were just fine, I shouldn't get ravenously hungry just by eating a higher intake of them despite having nothing wrong with me medically and doing plenty of exercise. Yes this isn't scientific and not relevant to the discussion.

snookumss

bump, I've gotten three pages in and have to return later!

funkycamper

Here is my problem with low-carb advocates. They all claim carbs are so bad, yet they require a refeed at some point to replenish glycogen levels. Especially if they engage in some form of exercise.

The battle should be against whole grains, not carbs as a whole.

How much of a refeed? I ask because I have weeks where I don't eat many carbs (and actually lose better and feel better the weeks I stay within my target and don't splurge on things like the pasta and breads like I did this past week).

I lift heavy 2x/week, do longer steady-state cardio (an hour or more) about 1x/week, and do HIIT 3x/week. I do this even when I'm not eating more than 80-100 grams/carb daily with no negative impact on my ability to exercise intensely or increase my weights.

If what you're saying is true, then why don't my workouts suffer on the weeks I don't do any kind of carb load?