Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet

tigersword

That ties into where I said "different shapes and sizes." None of that changes the way the body functions. You burn more calories than you take in, weight decreases, you take in more calories than you burn, weight increases. You match intake with burn, weight maintains. Individual set points vary, but the concept doesn't change.

How does one explain those that do seem to rev up thier bodies metabolism and loose weight when removing the vast majority of processed, grain foods....

Just saying - I had a diet that included complex carbs from grain sources and some processed foods and I was lucky if I saw a weight loss of about a lb a month -

Once I dropped all processed foods and carbs from grain sources I started loosing more all while intaking and expending out the same amount of calories...

For SOME people it isn't a matter of simply calories in - calories out - WHERE those calories come from and how it fuels your body is far more important...

A lot of the people who choose the Paleo lifestyle do so for a variety of reasons - some have health issues and need to be on a low carb/low sugar - which Paleo is easily adjustable to do...others like myself have tried the "traditional" way and found it doesn't work - so they read...I READ A LOT to come to the conclusion to try it - I figured it couldn't hurt if the "traditional" way wasn't working so great for me either...

Were you suffering from insulin resistance, PCOS, or diabetes? Do you have Celiac or some other gluten intolerance? That changes the equation, but again, having an illness does not make you genetically different. There are a million different diets for every person on the planet, there is no one size fits all answer. Some people suffer from a disease where they can't eat meat, due to an inability to process amino acids properly, some people can't go out in the daytime due to Guenther's Disease, which can cause them, serious illness and injury from a few seconds of sunlight. Nobody goes around claiming we should all stop eating protein, or we should all avoid the sun because of these people. So why do people insist on doing it with carbs? It's no different.

RimRK

This is a fantastic way of looking at it Acg67. I am really interested to take a look at any scientific papers about this eating behaviour. Something that is not often mentioned or wondered about is the effect of diet on the brain, of course the interaction between diet, hormones, environment and brain chemistry is complicated at best (else, I wouldn't be doing what I am doing:P) But the effects exist and are at time quite robust. I am bumping this thread to make sure I get a chance to look into it further down the semester:)

Personally, I have been wondering about trying the Paleo/Primal diet like plan, aside from lifting and HIIT workouts I do CrossFit WOD's (not a member of a box I do them at my uni's gym) and am currently tweaking my eating to find what works for me optimally.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I am not grumpy in the least. I do not like ignorance.

I don't go around making fun of others, I don't get pleasure from doing so.

I prefer to treat others as I want to be treated, so I don't delve myself into ignorance.

Calling the food others eat "crap" is kinda making fun of them, no? I mean... I love pasta, pizza and cupcakes, and none of them are made of fecal matter.

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

That is not making fun of anything. If you enjoy eating empty foods that are devoid of nutrtional benefits (pizza has some nutriton in the toppings) then go right ahead.

It does not affect my life in any way.

Silverkittycat

I am not grumpy in the least. I do not like ignorance.

I don't go around making fun of others, I don't get pleasure from doing so.

I prefer to treat others as I want to be treated, so I don't delve myself into ignorance.

Calling the food others eat "crap" is kinda making fun of them, no? I mean... I love pasta, pizza and cupcakes, and none of them are made of fecal matter.

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

That is not making fun of anything. If you enjoy eating empty foods that are devoid of nutrtional benefits (pizza has some nutriton in the toppings) then go right ahead.

It does not affect my life in any way.

Crap?
Obviously it affects you or you'd be a bit more generous, possibly tolerant.

Body, mind, soul...
In MY book they all need feeding.

busywaterbending

The goal was to actually delve into the claims of the Paleo diet being the diet for optimal health and it's supposed superiority to other diets in areas of weight loss, health and athletic performance. And instead of focusing on anecdotal evidence, is there any scientific backing to these claims.

yes there is, I and others have posted such evidence before, numerous times, and from numerous different sources but for the past 8 months that I have come across your posts you always overlook them, sarcastically dismiss them, and attack or belittle those that give you the evidence you are constantly "asking" for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=player_detailpage#t=1312s

Can you please take your paleo / low carb ignorance skit elsewhere? It is tiresome. You have had this "debate" numerous times in the past 8 months that I have been a member here.

As a native american I also find many of your posts racist. I was born and raised on what is called the "paleo diet", and like many indigenous peoples of this world who live in the equatorial zone of the earth, we never have eaten grains and we are glad that many in the 1st world countries are embracing the healthy eating styles of fresh veggies, fruits, seafood, and nuts that my ancestors and my grandparents have successfully adhered to to the health and joy of over 20,000 years of human history.

Please understand that your posts come off as condescending and patronizing, not informative.

suziecue66

Most folks turn to the paleo or primal diet if they have issues like IBS or other gut issues. Removing grains and legumes seems to help.
Some remove dairy if they are not seeing much weight loss success.
A lot of paleo or primals also stay low carb. Others don't and include more starchy carbs like sweet potatoes.
Any diet will help you lose weight, the trick is choosing the one you can maintain for life.

And some other folks turn to Paleo / Primal when we have major inflammation issues such as Fibromyalgia, Arthritis and such.

Seems that the science I have read backs up what most everyone says is merely antcedotal evidence. It is mighty funny then that removing the grains, legumes and dairy has cleared up my swelling, joint aches and pains and I can move freely do get some exercise.

I have no more acne, digestive issues, etc..............I am living pain and medication free for the first time in years.

You better get off that fad diet its ruining your health!!! (sarcastic)

suziecue66

Most folks turn to the paleo or primal diet if they have issues like IBS or other gut issues. Removing grains and legumes seems to help.
Some remove dairy if they are not seeing much weight loss success.
A lot of paleo or primals also stay low carb. Others don't and include more starchy carbs like sweet potatoes.
Any diet will help you lose weight, the trick is choosing the one you can maintain for life.

And some other folks turn to Paleo / Primal when we have major inflammation issues such as Fibromyalgia, Arthritis and such.

Seems that the science I have read backs up what most everyone says is merely antcedotal evidence. It is mighty funny then that removing the grains, legumes and dairy has cleared up my swelling, joint aches and pains and I can move freely do get some exercise.

I have no more acne, digestive issues, etc..............I am living pain and medication free for the first time in years.

UGH.

YOU may have a sensitivity (or allergy) to grain. This does not, in any way, imply that the majority of the population would benefit from eliminating it.

By that rationale, nobody should eat peanuts, shellfish, etc.

Majority of population will do fine doing it but no-one is saying they have to.

suziecue66

I have no doubt many people have lost weight, feel better etc while following the Paleo diet, but instead of anecdotal evidence let's try and delve into the scientific backing of the diet

Oh wait

I...I...I...

[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/ img822/6366/gdfgde.th.png[/img]

People don't need scientific studies etc to know its working for them.

Acg67

The goal was to actually delve into the claims of the Paleo diet being the diet for optimal health and it's supposed superiority to other diets in areas of weight loss, health and athletic performance. And instead of focusing on anecdotal evidence, is there any scientific backing to these claims.

yes there is, I and others have posted such evidence before, numerous times, and from numerous different sources but for the past 8 months that I have come across your posts you always overlook them, sarcastically dismiss them, and attack or belittle those that give you the evidence you are constantly "asking" for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=player_detailpage#t=1312s

Ah ok you really want to talk about the A to Z weight loss study? I fail to see how that qualifies as to something I was interested in, since in the OP I asked what the difference would be if you held macros constant and had one diet with only paleo foods and one with paleo and non paleo foods. If you read the A to Z study it was done on the obese and used self reported intake, which can confound things as they tend to under report caloric intake, scroll down to the bottom of this to the summary of studies

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/permission/2007/CalorieUnderestimation-JMR2007.pdf

Then the initial difference in weight loss was basically from the first 2 months, and as mult studies have shown that low carb diets result in greater weight loss initially due to water loss. Also to take into consideration that weight was gained in all the diets from the 6 month period to the end of the study. So do tell what you want me to take away from the study

Can you please take your paleo / low carb ignorance skit elsewhere? It is tiresome. You have had this "debate" numerous times in the past 8 months that I have been a member here.

Hmmm who is ignorant here? Possibly the person that thinks grains are devoid of nutrients?

As a native american I also find many of your posts racist. I was born and raised on what is called the "paleo diet", and like many indigenous peoples of this world who live in the equatorial zone of the earth, we never have eaten grains and we are glad that many in the 1st world countries are embracing the healthy eating styles of fresh veggies, fruits, seafood, and nuts that my ancestors and my grandparents have successfully adhered to to the health and joy of over 20,000 years of human history.

Please understand that your posts come off as condescending and patronizing, not informative.

Oooo pulling the race card, eh? Please point to specifically what posts you found to be racist. And I was totally unaware that Native Americans never ate corn or any other grain. Again who is ignorant here?

LorinaLynn

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

That is not making fun of anything. If you enjoy eating empty foods that are devoid of nutrtional benefits (pizza has some nutriton in the toppings) then go right ahead.

It does not affect my life in any way.

Oh, believe me, I do enjoy them.

I wouldn't call any of them nutritionally void, though. Not nutritionally DENSE, maybe, but certainly not void.

You know what's completely void of nutrients? Water.

suziecue66

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

That is not making fun of anything. If you enjoy eating empty foods that are devoid of nutrtional benefits (pizza has some nutriton in the toppings) then go right ahead.

It does not affect my life in any way.

Oh, believe me, I do enjoy them.

I wouldn't call any of them nutritionally void, though. Not nutritionally DENSE, maybe, but certainly not void.

You know what's completely void of nutrients? Water.

You got to have some snacks to enjoy. With people that are paleo/primal - its easier to just make your own that way they know exactly what they are eating because they have food sensitivities. So they still snack - a lot of paleo recipes for pizza, cupcakes etc.

suziecue66

I have to say though that if you have ever read paleo/primal forums there are a lot of food nazis there. There was a topic - re safe starches and the reactions of some of them was laughable - they see starch as just something that fattens. It comes from low-carbers trying to associate themselves with paleo. In particular, one major low-carb blogger who hasn't fared so well with his own diet.

Sidesteal

As a native american I also find many of your posts racist.

I can't believe you even went there.

Sidesteal

I beg to differ, pizza, cupcakes are foods made from nutritionally voids food products, which in my book and most people's books is plain crap.

What is wrong with pizza? Cheese, tomatoes, vegetables, meat, and bread.

I can understand not finding a lot of nutritional value in a cupcake, but pizza?!

Is it the combination of the above products along with cooking it in a disc shape that suddenly makes it bad?

CoryIda

Just popping in to point out - probably unnecessarily, but I'm doing it anyway - that those (Acg, sidesteal, LorinaLynn) saying it's okay to eat grains have rocking bodies.
I'm pretty sure grans aren't hurting them.

modernmom70

Just popping in to point out - probably unnecessarily, but I'm doing it anyway - that those (Acg, sidesteal, LorinaLynn) saying it's okay to eat grains have rocking bodies.
I'm pretty sure grans aren't hurting them.

:drinker:

modernmom70

Just popping in to point out - probably unnecessarily, but I'm doing it anyway - that those (Acg, sidesteal, LorinaLynn) saying it's okay to eat grains have rocking bodies.
I'm pretty sure grans aren't hurting them.

if they die of cancer in 2yrs who gives a crap.

Really? From not eating Paleo we will all die of cancer? So just eating clean won't help...guess I better go buy the book or join the website or whatever soon so I don't die of cancer!

LorinaLynn

Even if I die of cancer in two years, I'm still outliving the average pre-industrial-revolution woman by a good five years.

HotBodUnderConstruction

Even if I die of cancer in two years, I'm still outliving the average pre-industrial-revolution woman by a good five years.

Haha! I love processed food too much to give it up. If it's within my macros...why the heck not?!

RonSwanson66

Any diet atkins, paleo, dukan, whatever.... they all agree on one thing, vegetables. No matter what diet you chose or what you do, no one will deny vegetables are good for you.

SO if you want superb health, base your diet around vegetables. Lets say we have concluded this to be the best diet, How many people will do this and stick with it??? exactly...

So no point in continuing with this nonsense. One diet, or lack of diet isn't practical for everyone.

Run along now, the grownups are talking.

Some of us would like to make informed decisions based on scientific evidence rather than "gut feelings" and pseudo-science.

badgerbadger1

Just popping in to point out - probably unnecessarily, but I'm doing it anyway - that those (Acg, sidesteal, LorinaLynn) saying it's okay to eat grains have rocking bodies.
I'm pretty sure grans aren't hurting them.

if they die of cancer in 2yrs who gives a crap.

You never fail to disappoint.

LorinaLynn

Even if I die of cancer in two years, I'm still outliving the average pre-industrial-revolution woman by a good five years.

They would have lived their "full life span" free of disease, you wouldn't.

That reminds me of the old man at the vet's office where I used to work, whose dog had cancer. He said, "You know, when I was young... our dogs didn't get cancer or kidney failure or any of this stuff... they just died of old age."

Undiagnosed isn't the same as disease-free.

Dead at 30 from an ingrown toenail gone septic, or dead at 85 from ... whatever. I'll take 85.

RonSwanson66

Any diet atkins, paleo, dukan, whatever.... they all agree on one thing, vegetables. No matter what diet you chose or what you do, no one will deny vegetables are good for you.

SO if you want superb health, base your diet around vegetables. Lets say we have concluded this to be the best diet, How many people will do this and stick with it??? exactly...

So no point in continuing with this nonsense. One diet, or lack of diet isn't practical for everyone.

Run along now, the grownups are talking.

Some of us would like to make informed decisions based on scientific evidence rather than "gut feelings" and pseudo-science.

You're a bright one ron, didn't know that one diet fits everyone's needs. show me the scientific evidence son.

Hello boys and girls. Today's word is "strawman". Can you say "strawman"?

I bet you can.


The issue with paleo is the exclusion of healthy foods. If you (or anyone) can point to a well supported reason why the general population would be healthier if they excluded (grains, dairy, nighshades, etc.) then the intelligent people may reduce (or eliminate) them from their diet.

Of course, you'll need to grow past the binary thinking to understand this.

RonSwanson66

ETA:
LMAO, Ron post another study based on BMI again and tell me about "informed decisions based on scientific evidence"

It was an epidemiological study, genius. Of course I don't expect you to understand this.

Sidesteal

if they die of cancer in 2yrs who gives a crap.

Is this sarcasm?

LorinaLynn

We already talked previously on how health indicators where determined in paleo people.

Sorry. I'll take better notes next time. I didn't know there was going to be a test.

But I still say people then didn't live long enough to get the "old age" diseases we have now. And that my life thus far has been way better than any caveperson's ever was. Hell, as cruddy as my life is, it's better than royalty lived 200 years ago.

I'll take the indoor plumbing and microwaves and contact lenses and chocolate cupcakes and thick crust supreme pizzas, even if it runs a higher risk of some pretty nasty end of life diseases. End of life kinda sucks for everyone anyway, no matter what the cause. Despite the word "euthanasia" literally meaning "good death," there is no such thing as a good way to die.

RonSwanson66

Okay lets use my binary logic, if i cut that crap you listed above from my diet, how will i meet my carb intake(specifically)...
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you fruits and vegetables are better than that stuff you listed.

The universe can count beyond 2.

RonSwanson66

ETA:
LMAO, Ron post another study based on BMI again and tell me about "informed decisions based on scientific evidence"

It was an epidemiological study, genius. Of course I don't expect you to understand this.

Once you work in a lab, tell me about studies.

LOL.

Do you even know what an epidemiological study is? (Hint: it isn't done in a lab)

RonSwanson66

haha ron oh how you miss the point. Who put the study together?

http://www.preventivemedicine.northwestern.edu/facultyprofiles/carnethon.htm

(Someone who has taken more than freshman-level chemistry).

RonSwanson66

haha ron oh how you miss the point. Who put the study together?

http://www.preventivemedicine.northwestern.edu/facultyprofiles/carnethon.htm

(Someone who has taken more than freshman-level chemistry).

haha let me ask you this, how come your studies are more valid than mine according to you?

Because I understand how to read beyond abstracts and can evaluate the methodology and it's applicability to the topic at hand.

This is what happens when you get an education.