Dangers of Vegetarian & Vegan Diets Long-Term
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so if a cow goes into a coma is it ok? So its just the brain that makes the differance not the fact that its living?
And the nervous system, really. The ability to feel pain, the ability to suffer, the obvious striving for survival. I personally don't believe a coma would make a difference - it's still not a human right to take the life of another sentient being.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598926
Plants lack a brain and nervous system, and therefore aren't really comparable to animals. While plants can certainly be regarded as beautiful, complex living things, our moral obligations to vertebrates, who are living and conscious, are quite different.plants are also living things,but you know they dont have cute faces so its ok.
cannibalism is the way to go
The problem with this is that Human Rights are a Human concept - it is the way nature has worked for millennia that things higher up in the food chain, eat things lower down. If humans were designed to sustain themselves without meat in their diet, there would be no residual appendix or canine teeth and our mouths wouldn't be growing smaller, causing some of our molars not to fit.And the nervous system, really. The ability to feel pain, the ability to suffer, the obvious striving for survival. I personally don't believe a coma would make a difference - it's still not a human right to take the life of another sentient being.
To me, it doesn't matter that you CAN survive and get enough nutrition by excluding a food group entirely, but more that you WOULD when there is so much nutritional value in eating it. Vegetarianism isn't something I could pursue, because the sheer amount of plant matter I would have to consume would be so astronomically high compared to eating a nice, big chunk of steak.
Further to this, the domestication of livestock means we no longer largely impact wild animal populations - at least in the name of food. These animals are bred to be eaten.0 -
I've been a vegetarian my whole life since birth. Also my parents, brothers, sisters, grand parents ...i mean the list goes on & we are still standing strong!
All rubbish to me to be fair.0 -
so if a cow goes into a coma is it ok? So its just the brain that makes the differance not the fact that its living?
And the nervous system, really. The ability to feel pain, the ability to suffer, the obvious striving for survival. I personally don't believe a coma would make a difference - it's still not a human right to take the life of another sentient being.
So then why cant the same be said for lions,sharks,obviously they can think and feel,but its their right because they dont talk? We lost our right once we evolved? So some of the more primitave tribes hiding deep in the rainforest do they not have the right? Or do they still have the right because they are not aware that there is another way?
Sorry its early for me so im confused on this one.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598926
Plants lack a brain and nervous system, and therefore aren't really comparable to animals. While plants can certainly be regarded as beautiful, complex living things, our moral obligations to vertebrates, who are living and conscious, are quite different.plants are also living things,but you know they dont have cute faces so its ok.
cannibalism is the way to go
I copied and pasted it for those who wont go to the link lol
Plants, scientists say, transmit information about light intensity and quality from leaf to leaf in a very similar way to our own nervous systems.
These "electro-chemical signals" are carried by cells that act as "nerves" of the plants.
The researchers used fluorescence imaging to watch the plants respond
In their experiment, the scientists showed that light shone on to one leaf caused the whole plant to respond.
And the response, which took the form of light-induced chemical reactions in the leaves, continued in the dark.
This showed, they said, that the plant "remembered" the information encoded in light.
"We shone the light only on the bottom of the plant and we observed changes in the upper part," explained Professor Stanislaw Karpinski from the Warsaw University of Life Sciences in Poland, who led this research.
He presented the findings at the Society for Experimental Biology's annual meeting in Prague, Czech Republic.
"And the changes proceeded when the light was off... This was a complete surprise."
In previous work, Professor Karpinski found that chemical signals could be passed throughout whole plants - allowing them to respond to and survive changes and stresses in their environment.
But in this new study, he and his colleagues discovered that when light stimulated a chemical reaction in one leaf cell, this caused a "cascade" of events and that this was immediately signalled to the rest of the plant via a specific type of cell called a "bundle sheath cell".
The scientists measured the electrical signals from these cells, which are present in every leaf. They likened the discovery to finding the plants' "nervous system".
Thinking plants
What was even more peculiar, Professor Karpinski said, was that the plants' responses changed depending on the colour of the light that was being shone on them.
Continue reading the main story “
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Plants perform a sort of biological light computation, using information contained in the light to immunise themselves against diseases ”
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Stanislaw Karpinski
Warsaw University of Life Sciences
"There were characteristic [changes] for red, blue and white light," he explained.
He suspected that the plants might use the information encoded in the light to stimulate protective chemical reactions. He and his colleagues examined this more closely by looking at the effect of different colours of light on the plants' immunity to disease.
"When we shone the light for on the plant for one hour and then infected it [with a virus or with bacteria] 24 hours after that light exposure, it resisted the infection," he explained.
"But when we infected the plant before shining the light, it could not build up resistance.
"[So the plant] has a specific memory for the light which builds its immunity against pathogens, and it can adjust to varying light conditions."
He said that plants used information encrypted in the light to immunise themselves against seasonal pathogens.
"Every day or week of the season has… a characteristic light quality," Professor Karpinski explained.
The images showed chemical reactions in leaves that were not exposed to light
"So the plants perform a sort of biological light computation, using information contained in the light to immunise themselves against diseases that are prevalent during that season."
Professor Christine Foyer, a plant scientist from the University of Leeds, said the study "took our thinking one step forward".
"Plants have to survive stresses, such as drought or cold, and live through it and keep growing," she told BBC News.
"This requires an appraisal of the situation and an appropriate response - that's a form of intelligence.
"What this study has done is link two signalling pathways together... and the electrical signalling pathway is incredibly rapid, so the whole plant could respond immediately to high [levels of] light."0 -
So I'll humor you and say that even if plants were, in fact, sentient beings, that veganism would still be the minimum standard of decency. The protein in to protein out ratio of "food animals" is a really terrible investment, in that many "food" animals consume more protein than they "give".
By reducing the amount of animals consumed, we also reduce the amount of "plant suffering", and everybody wins.0 -
So then why cant the same be said for lions,sharks,obviously they can think and feel,but its their right because they dont talk? We lost our right once we evolved? So some of the more primitave tribes hiding deep in the rainforest do they not have the right? Or do they still have the right because they are not aware that there is another way?
Sorry its early for me so im confused on this one.
Sorry if this comes off as snarky, but I honestly have no idea what you're saying. Do you mean why do humans not have the right to take animal lives?0 -
How would reducing animal consumption reduce plant suffering? Wouldn't more living animals = more killing plants? And why is killing plants more decent than killing animals? You do realize that the vast majority of all animals (both farm animals and wild game) that are killed for food would suffer and starve to death if we allowed them all to live, don't you?
So I'll humor you and say that even if plants were, in fact, sentient beings, that veganism would still be the minimum standard of decency. The protein in to protein out ratio of "food animals" is a really terrible investment, in that many "food" animals consume more protein than they "give".
By reducing the amount of animals consumed, we also reduce the amount of "plant suffering", and everybody wins.0 -
The worst thing I ever did concerning my health was become a vegetarian. The soy consumption ruined my thyroid and I am now in the process of healing it through a very slow and on going process. I was very vitamin Deficient in B12 and had to take weekly shots which are no fun at all.
Most vegans and vegetarians using these "meat" products are Monsanto's dream come true. You are supporting a company buying your tofu, morning star, Boca products that are using genetically modified grains and such.
Not all tofu and soy products are Monsanto owned GMO. I eat very little soy products, but when I do, I make sure to buy only organic, non-GMO certified.
Agreed. Just because somebody is a vegetarian doesn't mean they eat only soy products. People have so many different conclusions about us vegetarians/vegans it's quiet annoying. Like, we only eat vegetables and fruits, we sit down and eat cupcakes and potato chips all day because it's not an 'animal'. It's all so silly, and it doesn't make sense. It just proves whoever it is saying these things just don't have knowledge about this, why? Because they are not simply a vegetarian, or they don't care to really learn how our lifestyle is. I am extremely healthy. Doctors have been amazed for YEARS. I take good care of myself. Oh, and it makes me mad how people are pointing out fat vegetarians. Why does this even matter? There are larger people in the world PERIOD. Overweight comes from eating too much, and not taking care of the body. Anybody is capable of doing this. A diet has nothing to do with this.
I have already lived the vegetarian lifestyle and have a large circle of vegetarian / vegan friends. That is one of the staple items. A stupid Registered Dietician told me when I was vegetarian that I needed to eat soy like no tomorrow and now I have ended up with a bunch of hormonal issues along with thyroid issues in which my endocrinologist has told me it is from the soy consumption.
Whoever told you that you need to eat tons of soy is an idiot, and you're a bigger idiot for actually believing this nonsense. You really need to be educated more about this because you're making yourself look like a giant fool.
In most cases, we listen to what the "professionals" tell us. Granted, I think some of us end up learning the hard way (myself included). However, there is no reason to call somebody a fool for listening to their doctor or a registered dietitian when we are talking about health. They are supposed to be the professionals. At the time, it was probably the big thing in the medical industry that soy was the best thing to eat. How many times has this changed in the last 20 years? A lot.0 -
Yes, I think so.So then why cant the same be said for lions,sharks,obviously they can think and feel,but its their right because they dont talk? We lost our right once we evolved? So some of the more primitave tribes hiding deep in the rainforest do they not have the right? Or do they still have the right because they are not aware that there is another way?
Sorry its early for me so im confused on this one.
Sorry if this comes off as snarky, but I honestly have no idea what you're saying. Do you mean why do humans not have the right to take animal lives?So I'll humor you and say that even if plants were, in fact, sentient beings, that veganism would still be the minimum standard of decency. The protein in to protein out ratio of "food animals" is a really terrible investment, in that many "food" animals consume more protein than they "give".
By reducing the amount of animals consumed, we also reduce the amount of "plant suffering", and everybody wins.
Decency is also a human concept and can't really be applied to a food chain. You eat what you need to survive and to thrive. Thriving implies a level of enjoyment in your life beyond your basic needs and although you may well be able to get what you need from plants in this case, meat is wholly more satsifying and contains a lot more of the nutrition vital to muscle growth and repair.
I don't actually care if a plant has feelings; I was just providing a link to a counter argument.0 -
so if a cow goes into a coma is it ok? So its just the brain that makes the differance not the fact that its living?
And the nervous system, really. The ability to feel pain, the ability to suffer, the obvious striving for survival. I personally don't believe a coma would make a difference - it's still not a human right to take the life of another sentient being.
Indulge me.... A mosquito bites you......do you swat it? You find a tick feeding on you......pull it off knowing it will die.....or let it have its fill?0 -
How would reducing animal consumption reduce plant suffering? Wouldn't more living animals = more killing plants? And why is killing plants more decent than killing animals?
Because animals in factory farms, etc. are fed an unnatural amount of plant-based food in order to get them to a weight in a short amount of time. And as I've said, plants lack both a brain and a nervous system. Animals are capable of suffering.You do realize that the vast majority of all animals (both farm animals and wild game) that are killed for food would suffer and starve to death if we allowed them all to live, don't you?
Yes, but the world wouldn't go vegan all at once. It would be a gradual decline, as with any change in supply and demand. As the demand would decrease, so would the supply until there was no more need for it. It's not like all 7 billion people are going to change overnight.0 -
So then why cant the same be said for lions,sharks,obviously they can think and feel,but its their right because they dont talk? We lost our right once we evolved? So some of the more primitave tribes hiding deep in the rainforest do they not have the right? Or do they still have the right because they are not aware that there is another way?
Sorry its early for me so im confused on this one.
Sorry if this comes off as snarky, but I honestly have no idea what you're saying. Do you mean why do humans not have the right to take animal lives?
why is ok for the lion but not the man,because we can talk? are a little more evolved? I live in TX there are a lot of hunters here,some people the only meat they eat is meat they hunt. None of their meat comes from big slaughter houses how is that diffrent than the lion or any other predator.0 -
it is the way nature has worked for millennia that things higher up in the food chain, eat things lower down.
Not with slaughter houses, and mass waste it isn't. Living among the animals you need for food, understanding them, killing them with respect, and using every part, is a very different thing to what we do today (i.e buy pre-packaged battery farmed meat, flown in from hundreds of miles away, all nice and tidy and devoid of a "face" so kids who have never visited a farm in their life can eat without a second thought).0 -
why is ok for the lion but not the man,because we can talk?
Because man prides himself on being conscious of his actions and knowing the difference between right and wrong, and between need and want. Ever tried to stop a lion getting to its prey?0 -
it is the way nature has worked for millennia that things higher up in the food chain, eat things lower down.
Not with slaughter houses, and mass waste it isn't. Living among the animals you need for food, understanding them, killing them with respect, and using every part, is a very different thing to what we do today (i.e buy pre-packaged battery farmed meat, flown in from hundreds of miles away, all nice and tidy and devoid of a "face" so kids who have never visited a farm in their life can eat without a second thought).
so would it be ok to eat the meat then if we raised it ourselves?0 -
why is ok for the lion but not the man,because we can talk? are a little more evolved? I live in TX there are a lot of hunters here,some people the only meat they eat is meat they hunt. None of their meat comes from big slaughter houses how is that diffrent than the lion or any other predator.
The human mind is an incredible thing. The lion only knows one thing, to hunt because he cannot survive on a non-meat diet, he cannot graze, so hunting the gazelle is his only option - it has absolutely nothing to do with speech, and I'm not sure how that came up. Man, however, can not only thrive on a plant-based diet, but his mind allows him to be compassionate and empathetic, and come to reasonable conclusions. He can change his behavior based on what he sees, and can differentiate right from wrong.
Why does man think he has the corner market on right to life?0 -
How would reducing animal consumption reduce plant suffering? Wouldn't more living animals = more killing plants? And why is killing plants more decent than killing animals?
Because animals in factory farms, etc. are fed an unnatural amount of plant-based food in order to get them to a weight in a short amount of time. And as I've said, plants lack both a brain and a nervous system. Animals are capable of suffering.You do realize that the vast majority of all animals (both farm animals and wild game) that are killed for food would suffer and starve to death if we allowed them all to live, don't you?
Yes, but the world wouldn't go vegan all at once. It would be a gradual decline, as with any change in supply and demand. As the demand would decrease, so would the supply until there was no more need for it. It's not like all 7 billion people are going to change overnight.
i don't think 7 billion people will ever change their eating habits to vegan...ever....0 -
why is ok for the lion but not the man,because we can talk?
Because man prides himself on being conscious of his actions and knowing the difference between right and wrong, and between need and want. Ever tried to stop a lion getting to its prey?
Oh so since a lion cant be stoped from getting its prey its OK for it to be a predator, got it0 -
So you just read an article where scientists have discovered that plants have a nervous system, you just choose to ignore it because it doesn't agree with what you want to believe. I see.How would reducing animal consumption reduce plant suffering? Wouldn't more living animals = more killing plants? And why is killing plants more decent than killing animals?
Because animals in factory farms, etc. are fed an unnatural amount of plant-based food in order to get them to a weight in a short amount of time. And as I've said, plants lack both a brain and a nervous system. Animals are capable of suffering.You do realize that the vast majority of all animals (both farm animals and wild game) that are killed for food would suffer and starve to death if we allowed them all to live, don't you?
Yes, but the world wouldn't go vegan all at once. It would be a gradual decline, as with any change in supply and demand. As the demand would decrease, so would the supply until there was no more need for it. It's not like all 7 billion people are going to change overnight.0
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