married and lonely, ok maybe that's TMI but..

MeadowSong

OK, lots of differing opinions here, so here's mine. I agree with the poster who basically said, uh, yeah, you made a VOW. I did. I've been married 26 years to a guy who has some real problems. Not saying I'm perfect. At all. Went to counseling alone. Didn't go for a long time because I didn't want a counselor to just tell me to get out. Felt like a vow means something. Now, if he was abusive in a big way emotionally, or at all physically, or doing drugs or something that would endanger the children that would be different. He does have serious emotional problems. But finally I went, he, of course, saw no need to go. The counselor (she was AMAZING) helped me to understand his issues in a way that I could deal with them better. After I went for a year, he started going. she was able to make a huge difference with him and now he is a different man. But I will ALWAYS be lonely in this marriage. But we DO have a good relationship now, he does care--and it's for the first time in our marriage. He now loves the kids with all his heart and the grandkids (we have three little ones) and if I had left him, I think he would have probably just dropped away. His presence in their lives is well worth my cost--he is NOT my only source of happiness. No one person can be. As time goes on, I do expect we'll grow closer. And it's worth A LOT to finish with the one with whom you started it all. We haven't wasted our history.

Another thought. Have you thought about HIS side of it. Men are quite different than women and express love differently. Sometimes men ARE being loving and we don't recognize it and unwittingly reject it. We hurt them too, you know. One of the best books I've read is "Love and Respect", don't remember the author offhand, but you can find it. It is from a Christian perspective, but I would think anyone could benefit--just helps folks understand their partner's perspective and stop cycles of hurt that often get going. And go to a counselor. By yourself. If you've ever had a marriage worth saving, you still do. But regardless, shopping around for happiness will bite you in the hiny, and could destroy your kids--so DON'T go there. Deal with your issues.

Oh, and yeah, there's a lot more lonely women out there than you'd know. I always had to keep a couple of close women friends because they were in good marriages were putting a lot of time there. But DO your stuff at home well, act like you are in a decent marriage (things CAN change, but won't if your attitude is bad), don't let your home suffer--and keep some women who deeply care about you.

AliceKlaar

Please ignore the people who say stay. They've clearly never been in an abusive relationship and let's be frank here this is what is is. An abusive relationship. Go to a debt management company and get them to consolidate your debts into one smaller payment. Yes you can't get credit afterwards but its a small price to pay! You and those kiddies deserve better. Nobody deserves this. I believe he probably is depressed but its no excuse for treating people like that! Go get half an hour with a solicitor find out what you'd be entitled to. Make moves to get out. I didn't have kids, but got out of an abusive relationship and now I have an amzing finace and step kids. Life can be great again x

^This. I really think you've given it your best shot, people who are telling you to stick it out are not acknowledging the fact he is a damaged human being who is unable/unwilling to change. None of this is your fault, although he will continue to try to make you feel like it is. He will continue the mental and verbal abuse and continue screwing with you (his response to the female/male counsellors you saw is a perfect example). I dodged a bullet myself - okay, I didn't have kids but yours will undoubtedly be better off if you remove yourselves from this person's influence. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the very best xx

rml_16

But I will ALWAYS be lonely in this marriage. But we DO have a good relationship now.

Your life is yours to live as you choose and I won't say what you're doing is wrong. It's not. For you.

But to say you're always going to be lonely in your marriage and then call it a good relationship is an oxymoron. It's not a good relationship.

echoica

You only get one life. This is not a dress rehearsal, so live it the way YOU want.

I love this

rossi02

I know this sounds overly simplistic, but take that first step and leave with your kids. Once you are out you will find ways to make it work. Doors will open for you, and you may have to take a huge hit financially, but it will be worth it in the long run. Your husband seems just fine with how things are and will continue to do as he pleases because he knows he has you trapped. Prove him wrong.. show him how strong you are. You are capable of so much more than you are giving yourself credit for. :flowerforyou:

Best of luck to you and your kids. I may not know you, but I do know you can do it.

i_love_vinegar

Dear gawsh, the man is a complete LOSER! You are worrying about whether HE can pay rent??? You'll never find out whether he can if you're still helping to support him (breadwinner, taking care of household, etc).

Get out while you can. He's not even nice to his own sons???

i_love_vinegar

Hey, I've never been married, so you may not want my opinion, but I have had parents and grandparents, friends and siblings with spouses, and (especially in reference to my grandparents who were married ('til death do they part) for fifty years) I know one thing for a fact: the bigger the hurdle you overcome, the bigger the reward.

I like what Lynn said. Get counseling. Get help. Talk to friends, professionals. Stage an intervention. Drag his *kitten* to church. Whatever. Just fight! FIGHT FOR THIS.

Wedding vows are no joke. Standing at the altar means standing up for something. Fight for him for the next 10 years, and if you still want a divorce after that, who am I to tell you otherwise? But I assure you that won't be the case.

You will find a kind of love and connection like you've never known. This marriage can, and will be, brand new.

PS: I disagree with this COMPLETELY.
1. The bigger the hurdle, the bigger the reward = a fact??? I completely disagree with the mere idea.
2. 10 years is a long time -- this isn't just about you, but your children (who he seems quite abusive with).
3. You cannot change people, they can only change themselves. If you have to force someone to try and fix a situation such as this, that is a red flag that the care for this marriage is extremely one-sided.
4. Brand new doesn't always mean better, not to mention based on current (and I am assuming past) behavior, chances are slim this man is going to shape into the kind of person necessary to have a happy marriage.

A marriage takes TWO people and is meant to be a GOOD thing for both partners involved. Both people need to be happy for it to work. If you have to bend over backwards to please your partner and take abuse and neglect, then you are simply LEGALLY married -- in concept you're an abused maid with a certificate and maybe some tax breaks.

I understand giving people chances, but that is what dating is for. Unfortunately, I am guessing he didn't act this way before you got married. Maybe you feel you went to the wedding ceremony with one person, and came out with someone completely different -- it happens. Again, you are only legally married. Replay the day you got married this way: Imagine the wedding ceremony and the moment you exchanged vows. The man in front of you showed promise and you thought he was great (hopefully), thus why you were at the alter. You put a ring on, he runs away, and his twin brother takes his place. His twin brother is a jerk, but you stay with him because he looks like the man you just married. While you are legally married, you are not living life with the man you married. Is it fair that you have to spend the rest of your life with a man who LOOKS like the person you married, but is not the same person on the inside (what matters most).

This sounds like a very toxic relationship. I hope you find the help you need. Remember that you can always get remarried. If he wants to change and become a better person, let him do so on his own. If he says he changed, take it slowly, because sadly most adult people do not change. There are plenty of people in this world, and there is no shame in divorce. We cannot control nor fix everything. Sometimes no matter how much time and energy you have invested in something, you have to walk away, and I think it takes a mature person to admit that some things cannot be fixed. If there is a God, you have to trust that he or she will take care of the souls of the people you love. We are all here for our own reasons and lessons, and helping others does not always mean providing them with food and shelter. Sometimes the best thing we can do for someone is to let go of them, nurture ourselves and those who ALSO nurture us back (such as your children, friends, pets, etc).

If he ends up homeless for instance, it is his own undoing for not appreciating his beautiful wife and children. This is a lesson that he will probably have to learn on his own -- he might never learn the lesson, but you are not God. There are billions of people on this planet and I believe that through interacting with each other we teach and learn. But there are billions of people, and to learn is to grow into a better person, which your husband is obviously not gaining from this marriage. I think maybe he came into your life to bring you your sons, but I believe this relationship is stunting growth for all involved. We do not all hold the keys to every lesson, and I do not believe you hold the key he needs. He might very well hold the key you need though -- maybe the problems in this lonely marriage and how you handle it will allow you to grow. Noting that the marriage has been miserable for a while, however, I do not believe the key is to stay. I think it is time to let go and allow new things and more positive people into you and your children's' lives.

Good luck and sorry for the long response. :flowerforyou:

babybluefire

Hey, I've never been married, so you may not want my opinion, but I have had parents and grandparents, friends and siblings with spouses, and (especially in reference to my grandparents who were married ('til death do they part) for fifty years) I know one thing for a fact: the bigger the hurdle you overcome, the bigger the reward.

I like what Lynn said. Get counseling. Get help. Talk to friends, professionals. Stage an intervention. Drag his *kitten* to church. Whatever. Just fight! FIGHT FOR THIS.

Wedding vows are no joke. Standing at the altar means standing up for something. Fight for him for the next 10 years, and if you still want a divorce after that, who am I to tell you otherwise? But I assure you that won't be the case.

You will find a kind of love and connection like you've never known. This marriage can, and will be, brand new.

Not only do I disagree. But marriage advice coming from someone who has never been married. Yea, good luck with that LOL.

peacek

Unless you are in domestic abuse, do not divorce! That's my opinion, take it or leave it!

Women think husbands used to be so loving but don't do that anymore.
When is the last time you made your husband feel special and loved?

hollyberry2012

To the OP, one question:

Was he lazy and argumentative when you met him, married him?

If not, try and find out the source of these attributes.

If so, and you 'looked' over it then, guess what?

KellyKAG

I'm shocked by how many people posted that she should just ride it out or him being an a**hole is her fault for not being a good enough wife. What a bunch of BS. Maybe he should do a better job of being a man. What year is it that women have to suck it up and just do for the man?

I'm in a similar crappy marriage as the OP & yes I married him and made a Vow but if I didn’t have kids or if I had known then what I know now (crazy hot attraction does not make a good marriage) I would not be married right now.

Best advice I will ever give my daughter when she is grown is to always live with the man before marrying him because I didn’t due to his family’s religious beliefs. You never know someone until you live together.

confuzzledwife

To the OP, one question:

Was he lazy and argumentative when you met him, married him?

If not, try and find out the source of these attributes.

If so, and you 'looked' over it then, guess what?

Hi, no he wasn't lazy. That was what I was most attracted to, his energy. He seemed to always have energy and I loved that about him, he enjoyed doing things outdoors, he used to say people who sit in the house all the time are crazy and people need to get out more, this is why I was so drawn to him, he wasn't lazy, he owned his own home before I came around and did it all- cleaning, cooking, yardwork, always energetic, in addition- he worked 50-60 hours a week. Those were the very things that attracted me to him, including his personality. He was goofy and funny, and sort of dorky, a hands on dad, and he used to joke "never argue with a woman you'll never win" .. Things took a turn when I was pregnant w/ our youngest son. His entire personality changed and suddenly he was always tired, no matter what - it's been that way ever since. We went to counseling, he turned into a monster.. but what I think is that he was always that way and he just changed to put on a good front, or maybe he really wanted to be that person, but he just isn't. I don't know what else to say.

rml_16

I'm shocked by how many people posted that she should just ride it out or him being an a**hole is her fault for not being a good enough wife. What a bunch of BS. Maybe he should do a better job of being a man. What year is it that women have to suck it up and just do for the man?

I'm in a similar crappy marriage as the OP & yes I married him and made a Vow but if I didn’t have kids or if I had known then what I know now (crazy hot attraction does not make a good marriage) I would not be married right now.

Best advice I will ever give my daughter when she is grown is to always live with the man before marrying him because I didn’t due to his family’s religious beliefs. You never know someone until you live together.

Living with them is no guarantee. My best friend lived with her now-husband for two years and they never argued and had a wonderful relationship. Within months of being married, he turned into a complete jerk. He even told her that he behaved before because at first he wanted to "get laid" and then because he was afraid she'd leave.

Now he thinks she's stuck because they're married so he turned into a completely different person and two years into the marriage, she's contemplating divorce. And, no, he won't go to counseling. She's begged him to do that and he won't go.

OP -- Even if there's a treatable issue going on with your husband, unless he's willing to accept it and work on it, things won't get better. You shouldn't have to suffer for the rest of your life because you "took a vow." There's "worse" and there's "unbearable."

littlepinkhearts

I'll leave you with one last thing, a quote from a book.

"Life is the future, not the past. The past can teach us, through experience, how to accomplish things in the future, comfort us with cherished memories, and provide the foundation of what has already been accomplished. But only the future holds life. To live in the past is to embrace what is dead. To live life to its fullest, each day must be created anew. As rational, thinking beings, we must use our intellect, not a blind devotion to what has come before, to make rational choices."
Richard Rahl, The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind

Do not live in the past, do not stay in a relationship that is broken. You are only living in what is dead, and that only brings more fatigue. Shape your future, choose happiness, and set a new path for yourself. You surely will find happiness if you do.

Just my two cents.
Master Zeddicus

Well i just love your two cents and thanks soooo much. Although i've been separated for two years from a very toxic relationship, he still attempts almost every day to belittle me into taking him back. Some men just never see the wickedness of their ways no matter how much you love them, show them love, or help them. If they don't wanna look in the mirror at themselves, then there's nothing else you can do but suffer the rest of your life with them, or let them go But a choice only yourself can make )

rammsteinsoldier

I can totally relate. Don't be hard on yourself. You have to live for what makes you happy. I finally just left and said no more. There is a wonderful world full of wonderful people out there. If you want to talk more about it, feel free to write to me. Believe me, I have been there.

Dayna154

Be fair to him and yourself.. If you are that unhappy... Let go and move on.. It may not be easy but nothing in life worthwhile is..
You both deserve to be happy and by dragging things out.. no one will be..
Cut your losses and move on..

I was in a relationship WAY past its due date, it had gotten abusive and ugly.. I was scared and had nothing left to give.. Once I totaly cut ties and moved on.. I found out I really like myself and have so much to offer and the world is really a wonderful place..

Make sure it is what you want...

joanthemom8

I'm really sorry for your situation. No marriage is perfect, but you seem to be in "unfixable" situation. When one side won't do anything to work on the marriage (or even acknowledge that he has a problem), it seems kinda hopeless.

As an aside, I think you mentioned your husband worked graveyard shift or swing shift and that he's always tired. I read somewhere that sometimes when people work odd shifts (night shifts) it messes up their internal clocks or whatever, so do you think maybe part of his problem is due to his working schedule? Just a thought.

I'll keep you in my thoughts - :ohwell:

lorro

To the OP, one question:

Was he lazy and argumentative when you met him, married him?

If not, try and find out the source of these attributes.

If so, and you 'looked' over it then, guess what?

Hi, no he wasn't lazy. That was what I was most attracted to, his energy. He seemed to always have energy and I loved that about him, he enjoyed doing things outdoors, he used to say people who sit in the house all the time are crazy and people need to get out more, this is why I was so drawn to him, he wasn't lazy, he owned his own home before I came around and did it all- cleaning, cooking, yardwork, always energetic, in addition- he worked 50-60 hours a week. Those were the very things that attracted me to him, including his personality. He was goofy and funny, and sort of dorky, a hands on dad, and he used to joke "never argue with a woman you'll never win" .. Things took a turn when I was pregnant w/ our youngest son. His entire personality changed and suddenly he was always tired, no matter what - it's been that way ever since. We went to counseling, he turned into a monster.. but what I think is that he was always that way and he just changed to put on a good front, or maybe he really wanted to be that person, but he just isn't. I don't know what else to say.

Again, this mirrors the situation with my ex. This is no usual marital strife. If I interpreted your profile correctly, you work as a carer. You shoulder all the caring responsibilities for your children too. You are your husband's carer. There is no relationship to speak of between you. Your needs don't feature at all. Living with someone you used to have a life with, who has opted out of life, is a very lonely and alienating experience. Really it doesn't matter whether others can relate or not, you've had to distance yourself emotionally from him to keep going.

It is possible he is depressed, but you can't help him if he refuses to seek change. Time after time, I've seen men with problems like this awaken to the real situation at the point at which the woman is at the end of the leaving process. Sometimes reconciliation is possible, it depends entirely on the degree of emotional distancing that has occurred. As you said, I think you are well past the point of no return. My leaving was the making of my ex. Not at first (things got worse before they got better), but now he is a wonderful father once more and a much happier and healthier man.

It's likely that finances are not the only issue keeping you stuck. Fear can be paralysing. You don't need to do this alone. As you can see from this thread, it's more common than you may think. A counsellor will help you come to terms with what you already know to be true. You can't live like this indefinitely. Nor should you. Vows of marriage do not make one person responsible for another's life. The right to self determination is a fundamental one. Marriage may be an instituation, but it's not a life sentence.

confuzzledwife

I'm really sorry for your situation. No marriage is perfect, but you seem to be in "unfixable" situation. When one side won't do anything to work on the marriage (or even acknowledge that he has a problem), it seems kinda hopeless.

As an aside, I think you mentioned your husband worked graveyard shift or swing shift and that he's always tired. I read somewhere that sometimes when people work odd shifts (night shifts) it messes up their internal clocks or whatever, so do you think maybe part of his problem is due to his working schedule? Just a thought.

I'll keep you in my thoughts - :ohwell:

Hi Joan!
He often says he's tired because of the shift he's on, which would be acceptable, if it wasn't for the fact that when he was on days it was the same way. He'd say he was too tired then because he had to be at work at 6 am. He started nights about a year 1/2 ago, and since he went nights, the improvement I see in in my kids, the entire house is calm when he's not here - we're all more relaxed... but on his days off, all we hear is how tired he is, so he starts yelling when the kids are playing in the middle of the day.. isn't that normal for kids to play during the day or afternoon? but i don't know.. His cousin was here not too long ago and told him he really needs to chill out, it was nice to see an outsider saying something to see it's not just me...

I'm trying to see both sides of things and ultimately, I need to schedule a final sit down with him. I hate to be a person who gives ultimatums, because I wouldn't want someone doing it to me, but in this situation, I see no other option at this point..

confuzzledwife

Again, this mirrors the situation with my ex. This is no usual marital strife. If I interpreted your profile correctly, you work as a carer. You shoulder all the caring responsibilities for your children too. You are your husband's carer. There is no relationship to speak of between you. Your needs don't feature at all. Living with someone you used to have a life with, who has opted out of life, is a very lonely and alienating experience. Really it doesn't matter whether others can relate or not, you've had to distance yourself emotionally from him to keep going.

It is possible he is depressed, but you can't help him if he refuses to seek change. Time after time, I've seen men with problems like this awaken to the real situation at the point at which the woman is at the end of the leaving process. Sometimes reconciliation is possible, it depends entirely on the degree of emotional distancing that has occurred. As you said, I think you are well past the point of no return. My leaving was the making of my ex. Not at first (things got worse before they got better), but now he is a wonderful father once more and a much happier and healthier man.

It's likely that finances are not the only issue keeping you stuck. Fear can be paralysing. You don't need to do this alone. As you can see from this thread, it's more common than you may think. A counsellor will help you come to terms with what you already know to be true. You can't live like this indefinitely. Nor should you. Vows of marriage do not make one person responsible for another's life. The right to self determination is a fundamental one. Marriage may be an instituation, but it's not a life sentence.

Thank you for this^^