Why has cardio become a swear word on MFP all of a sudden?

bcattoes

Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the rare people looking to lose weight without becoming a marathon runner, endurance cardio is just not for me at all.

Really? I would think endurance cardio was rather rare on MFP. Actually, I'd think it pretty rare in general.

Maybe on MFP, but Ive heard countless times that Blank Blankerson lost X-amount of pounds by taking up running/jogging/walking. There are a lot of people who think that the best/only way to go about this is to lace up and hit the pavement for hours.

I think sometimes the "for hours" part is an assumption. I see far more posts of people running 5k or doing the c25k. 5k is not endurance cardio, though it is a darn good way to burn a lot of calories.

blakejohn

Its been super interesting to read a million comments that simply state, "I love cardio."

I dig your kettlebell pic

mmapags

Ultra marathoner - 50 marathons, in 50 days, in 50 states. Look how emaciated he is.

And you are insinuating that this picture was taken after that effort?

Doesn't matter, you can train properly to burn mostly fat as fuel, that doesn't happen often with recreational runners - hence the "wall".
Dean does, and advocates the Maffetone method or similar. He also includes cross training and other activities for well rounded system. He is expert. But find some of his old photos, he's gotten wiser and smarter. And stronger.

No, I'm not "insinuating" anything. It was called sarcasm.

I keep reading comments that long distance running leaves you looking like a POW survivor. This was an example showing that to not be true. You can be a distance runner and have muscle.

It was insinuated above but the question is someone would achieve that how?? (hint: cross training with strength training). FTR, I don't have a dog in this fight. I do both. About a 50/50 mix. Cardio with HIIT, running and bike. Stronglifts 5X5 for strength. It's just so not an either/or. For max results and efficiency it's both. Haven't seen the question yet but has anyone asked themselves how the pros, the people that do it for a living in the sports and fitness world do it? (again a hint: both).

mmapags

3 folks in my friends list who've lost more than 100 lbs have lost lbs simply by WALKING! Not even jogging, running, other hardcore cardio but the humble walking have brought them to 100+ lbs lost. I wouldnt even dream of shutting down cardio.

Also, Lately I've been hitting my neighborhood Boxing Academy. The workouts there are all cardio. We dont do anything with weights. We simply do high intensity cardio. If you think somebody who only does weight lifting can do those workouts, you're very wrong. Sure weight lifting is great but you cant diss out cardio now

And they were so overweight that this was possible because even in a calorie deficit thier body would not go catabolic because there was so much available fat to use as fuel. So you prove what?? The some degree of cardio can be beneficial? You win!
With only a few exceptions, I've seen very little dissing of cardio so why all the defensiveness. I do about 50/ 50 cardio and strength. Neither one needs to be defended. Both are great!
One of the biggest reasons for not focusing on lot's of cardio alone is the loss of lean muscle mass by going catabolic. There are training regimens that prevent this including mixing in strength training. Going catabolic is a good thing to avoid. I think we can all agree on that?

Trail_Addict

It was insinuated above but the question is someone would achieve that how?? (hint: cross training with strength training). FTR, I don't have a dog in this fight. I do both. About a 50/50 mix. Cardio with HIIT, running and bike. Stronglifts 5X5 for strength. It's just so not an either/or. For max results and efficiency it's both. Haven't seen the question yet but has anyone asked themselves how the pros, the people that do it for a living in the sports and fitness world do it? (again a hint: both).

You are absolutely right. One must do both to achieve those results. That was never the argument in my post. My original post was purely to point out the FACT that an ultra-marathoner doesn't have to be emaciated from doing tons and tons of cardio. Why the other poster chose to try to argue that fact is beyond me. I never made claims that Dean didn't include strength training. The argument is towards those that make BS claims that too much cardio leaves you skeletonized or "fat skinny". Dean is but one example that there are ways around those BS claims.

LorinaLynn

Arguing about cardio vs strength training is like arguing about which side of the bed is best, because the answer is "the middle."

Kikilarue59

I don't know about the falling out over Cardio. For me it's the only thing that really gets my body into the fat burning mode.
I tend to do 30 Minutes on the treadmill. I 'm starting 3.4 MPH. at a 5% incline. I will stay with this for a couple of weeks and then shift up but only by 10% increments. All the while reading my Kindle Fire.

After that 3 times a week I will combine it with some lifting work on different parts of my body.
I have alot ( over 100Lbs) to lose and this seems manageable and is something I can actually look forward to doing.
Yea..Cardio.
Kiki

mmapags

Arguing about cardio vs strength training is like arguing about which side of the bed is best, because the answer is "the middle."

I like your style girl! :laugh:

scottb81

Even a very skinny person isn't going to go catabolic during running from not enough fat. They might go catabolic from not enough carbs. That is easily prevented by eating properly and knowing what you are doing when training, even when training with high mileage.

Facts are in short supply in this thread.

Mybabie

I do cardio everyday.

mmapags

Even a very skinny person isn't going to go catabolic during running from not enough fat. They might go catabolic from not enough carbs. That is easily prevented by eating properly and knowing what you are doing when training, even when training with high mileage.

Facts are in short supply in this thread.

Agreed! And at what point would your average person run out of glycogen while practicing some form of cardio exercise? After how much time. As I stated in my above post in agreement with what you've said, there are training regimens to prevent this. "eating properly and knowing what you are doing when training" for one. Cross training with strength for another. Really a mix of what you said and what I said.

To me though, it sound like you are advocating for cardio as a sole protocol for fitness and you personally have figured out how to make that work. Great for you. I will go back to the question I asked which is "what do people who rely on their fitness and conditioning for a living do and what is the most efficient way to get there". I believe I recall you posting that you run 80 miles per week. How much time in hours does that take? If your running 6 minute miles, that would be 8 hours per week. I, and I'm guessing many others, don't have that kind of time to devote. I can lose fat and get fit doing a mixed regimen of cardio, HIIT and strength in about half that time or 4 to 5 hours per week.

That's what the pro's do because they have to spend time also focusing on thier tecnique training and skills training. It's their job. So first let me say that I have great admiration for what you do and what you've accomplished. But I don't see the benefit of recommeding this as a broad based strategy for most people. It's generalizing from the specific.

froeschli

I took up running to get in shape. when i can run my 10k, then i will add strength. no point in starting lifting if i'd be completely out of breath after just a minute...
yeah, 10k may be a bit of overkill, but it is a nice goal & achievement :happy:

scottb81

How long the average person would run before he would run out of glycogen is entirely dependent on their fitness level and the intensity of the exercise. A trained runner running at a high aerobic intensity can go about 2 hours. An trained runner going at a lower intensity can go much longer. An untrained person probably couldn't run for two hours but would run out of glycogen before then anyway.

I don't advocate cardio as the sole protocol. I simply advocate truth in advertising. Truth in advertising is that running does not cause "skinny fat" unless the person doing it is doing a whole lot of things wrong. In fact, most of the websites that carry on about "skinny fat" are websites that are trying to get somebody to buy their product and use it as a scare tactic to part that person from their money.

I don't run quite as fast in training as you listed and I spend 10 to 12 hous weekly running. But I don't even advocate that much for fitness or weigh loss. I do however advocate that much if a person is striving to reach their own personal potential in the sport. The most efficient way for a person to reach their potential as a distance runner is to run. What do the pros do? They run 10 to 12 hours a week and don't expend a whole lot of other energy on cross training.

The only time I have ever on this site told anyone to run the volume I do is when the question is asked how to become a better runner. If you want to become a better runner you run more. Just like if you want to become a better bodybuilder you spend more time in the gym. I generally don't even get involved in discussions outside that area, skinny fat scare threads excepted.

I also have nothing against weights. I used to lift a lot. I don't right now because after 10 hours of running and 40 hours at work I am too tired and don't have the time.

mmapags

How long the average person would run before he would run out of glycogen is entirely dependent on their fitness level and the intensity of the exercise. A trained runner running at a high aerobic intensity can go about 2 hours. An trained runner going at a lower intensity can go much longer. An untrained person probably couldn't run for two hours but would run out of glycogen before then anyway.

I don't advocate cardio as the sole protocol. I simply advocate truth in advertising. Truth in advertising is that running does not cause "skinny fat" unless the person doing it is doing a whole lot of things wrong. In fact, most of the websites that carry on about "skinny fat" are websites that are trying to get somebody to buy their product and use it as a scare tactic to part that person from their money.

I don't run quite as fast in training as you listed and I spend 10 to 12 hous weekly running. But I don't even advocate that much for fitness or weigh loss. I do however advocate that much if a person is striving to reach their own personal potential in the sport. The most efficient way for a person to reach their potential as a distance runner is to run. What do the pros do? They run 10 to 12 hours a week and don't expend a whole lot of other energy on cross training.

The only time I have ever on this site told anyone to run the volume I do is when the question is asked how to become a better runner. If you want to become a better runner you run more. Just like if you want to become a better bodybuilder you spend more time in the gym. I generally don't even get involved in discussions outside that area, skinny fat scare threads excepted.

I also have nothing against weights. I used to lift a lot. I don't right now because after 10 hours of running and 40 hours at work I am too tired and don't have the time.

We are in agreement on most of what you said. I would suggest that most here are not desiring to be the best distance runner they can be but are rather here to get more lean and more fit. There are exceptions on the running side of the equation just as there are on the strength side of the equation. For all those in the middle, I believe they need to find the best personal mix of both cardio and strength. It will help most people to develop the most balanced and symetricall fitness equation that they can accomplish in the least time.

scottb81

We are in agreement on most of what you said. I would suggest that most here are not desiring to be the best distance runner they can be but are rather here to get more lean and more fit. There are exceptions on the running side of the equation just as there are on the strength side of the equation. For all those in the middle, I believe they need to find the best personal mix of both cardio and strength. It will help most people to develop the most balanced and symetricall fitness equation that they can accomplish in the least time.

Yes, I agree with that. The best mix of exercise and diet is entirely dependant on one's ultimate goal. There is no one size fits all solution.

yesthistime

bump

mousecat84

Speaking of... anyone used the Zombies, Run! app successfully in their area?

Thank you for bringing my attention to this.... It looks hillariously good! I'm pretty certain I wants this app

AZackery

Cardio burns fat.

Weight lifting burns more fat after the actual workout is done.
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/WT&End.html

And actually, cardio has a much easier potential of burning higher % of carbs than fat. Anything but the lowest level of HR is starting to burn more carbs than fat, starting at 60 to 100% when you go anaerobic with sprints.

And do to much cardio day after day on calorie restricted diet (like on MFP), and you have a great potential of burning up too much carbs, causing muscle breakdown to keep the blood sugar level correct.

Now, maybe you don't need the extra muscle in your upper body like the long distance runner in the picture above, because your racing ability relies on no extra weight were you don't need it (same with pro road cyclists BTW).

That being said, love the long cardio bike rides, even though I know I burn up muscle in the summer!

Cardio burns fat. A person doesn't ever have to lift weights and still get results. I know my body and I'm the only one that can speak for it.

mmapags

Cardio burns fat.

Weight lifting burns more fat after the actual workout is done.
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/WT&End.html

And actually, cardio has a much easier potential of burning higher % of carbs than fat. Anything but the lowest level of HR is starting to burn more carbs than fat, starting at 60 to 100% when you go anaerobic with sprints.

And do to much cardio day after day on calorie restricted diet (like on MFP), and you have a great potential of burning up too much carbs, causing muscle breakdown to keep the blood sugar level correct.

Now, maybe you don't need the extra muscle in your upper body like the long distance runner in the picture above, because your racing ability relies on no extra weight were you don't need it (same with pro road cyclists BTW).

That being said, love the long cardio bike rides, even though I know I burn up muscle in the summer!

Cardio burns fat. A person doesn't ever have to lift weights and still get results. I know my body and I'm the only one that can speak for it.

Calorie deficit burns fat and nothing else. All exercise exercise burns calories and helps create a deficit. You believe that because you did cardio and lost fat that cardio was the key. Sorry but your wrong. Creating a deficit was the key and it doesn't matter if it's your body or anyone elses. Heybales chart shows that a combination of cardio and strength burned more calories thereby creating a larger deficit while maintaining lean muscle mass. That would not just happen for those folks who participated in the study. It would happen for you, me and everyone else.

You want to do just cardio, knock your self out. Your choice. But when you make the statement you made above the same applies in reverse. A person doesn't ever have to do cardio and still get results. Take a look at some of the profilespics of those who do no cardio and see for yourself. Cardio and strength are tools to help create deficits. They also both enhance heath in different ways and that has additional benefits. One is not better than the other. Both are prefered in a balanced program.

Beezil

Cardio is amazingly good for you in a lot of ways. There is no reason not to do it, as long as you are able and your body can handle it! I say go for it if you want to do it every day or every other day or w/e. As long as you rest when you need it of course and drink plenty of fluids. lol More power to you! I find cardio very difficult but I still try to do it 2 times a week. Sometimes I don't because I hate it but I know it's important and really good for me so I try to push myself to do it anyway.

MonkeyBars

The best quote I ever remember reading, if you treat your body as "bread".

Resistance training is the breadknife to cut away the crust, cardio is the pearing knife to cut the shape out of the bread!

We need both! And to quote Gunnar Peterson, "4 legs to the table, cardio, resistance, diet & rest. We need all 4 legs to hold the table up"

Without these 4, we're out of balance and will not be our best. Personally I've stopped lifting heavy and now do bodyweight caveman tabata style training. Battling ropes, pullups, medicine ball pushups, punchbag, swissball sprawls, etc....

The diet part isn't actually dieting, it's measure your input/output to either maintain or improve in "either" direction! Sometimes I've wanted to put weight on, but "good" weight. My diet changes to eat more and lift more....

Rant over, I'm going off topic!!!!

harlanJEN

It's not that cardio is bad - cardio is great! You need cardio to burn calories. The reason why strength training is being promoted is because usually (women, mostly) are unfamiliar with the concept of strength training and how it can help them. If you do ONLY cardio all the time, and don't SUPPLEMENT your workouts with strength training, you're missing out on some serious benefits.

I personally try to promote strength training as a great tool for people who want to get healthy, and encourage people not to shy away from it. But that certainly doesn't mean cardio is bad! Cardio is just what everyone seems to already be used to and familiar with, so it isn't addressed in conversation as much.

Hope this helps!

^^^^^^ Well said. I'd add: Cardio isn't needed to burn calories. Can get a calorie deficit through nutrition alone or with strength training alone or a combination of nutrition and strength. Or a combo of nutrition, strength and cardio. Building lean muscle mass - soooo important! Not a cardio hater, but a strength training lover. My advice is to supplement strength training with cardio. I've seen results with strength training that I"ve never had before. I'm a former all cardio girl. I'd never been educated about strength training before - and it rocks! BALANCE. Always about the balance : )

funkycamper

Speaking of... anyone used the Zombies, Run! app successfully in their area?

Thank you for bringing my attention to this.... It looks hillariously good! I'm pretty certain I wants this app

LOL, just downloaded it and will use it on my next run. Hope I don't scare the neighbors running with a machete.

mmapags

The best quote I ever remember reading, if you treat your body as "bread".

Resistance training is the breadknife to cut away the crust, cardio is the pearing knife to cut the shape out of the bread!

We need both! And to quote Gunnar Peterson, "4 legs to the table, cardio, resistance, diet & rest. We need all 4 legs to hold the table up"

Without these 4, we're out of balance and will not be our best. Personally I've stopped lifting heavy and now do bodyweight caveman tabata style training. Battling ropes, pullups, medicine ball pushups, punchbag, swissball sprawls, etc....

The diet part isn't actually dieting, it's measure your input/output to either maintain or improve in "either" direction! Sometimes I've wanted to put weight on, but "good" weight. My diet changes to eat more and lift more....

Rant over, I'm going off topic!!!!

Great post! I'm stealing the 4 legs thing. If we're in the same room I'll attribute but if not, I'll claim it! :laugh:
Well expressed and an excellent perspective!

dianacannon89

What is Skinny Fat?!

bwalgraeve

This is not true. I do Insanity, which is cardio interval training, and if you go to Youtube and watch progress videos, a lot of those people get ripped, or at least lean muscle definition.

Cardio leads to "skinny fat" and some people seem to have issues with the whole "skinny fat" look and think that every muscle should be worked hard and defined.. Yea sure I do strength training but I do not wanna get "ripped"

I'd like to have a "skinny fat" body.. But if people hear me say that I get stick for it

chrisdavey

20 rep squats are cardio

h_wst

I do cardio almost every day of the week. I was told by a personal trainer to loose the weight you want to loose first by doing cardio and then focus on toning with weight lifting ect.

AntWrig

Here is the problem with cardio. People are using it as a means of weight loss. You create a deficit through your diet and exercise. When I say exercise I mean ANAEROBIC (weight lifting, sprinting) the elliptical, long distance running will not improve body recomp goals, it will actually HINDER your goals due to cortisol production.

While any form of exercise produces cortisol, the difference is weight lifting and sprinting produce testosterone which blunts cortisol production.

So, you don't need cardio PERIOD to reach your goals. When I say cardio I mean endless hours on the spinning bike, elliptical, the "new" aerobic routines (P90x, Insansity, etc). Get out and walk for a change. Walking provides nothing but benefits to body recomp goals. I don't mean fast walking, just a nice pace.

ninerbuff

Cardio burns fat. A person doesn't ever have to lift weights and still get results. I know my body and I'm the only one that can speak for it.

Blanket statement. If cardio is in the upper levels of near peak output, you burn glycogen not fat. Cardio burn "calories".


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